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Thomas Lemar (LW/AM) Monaco

What will Thomas Lemar be leaning on?

  • Me, when you're not strong, and I'll be your friend, I'll help you carry on.

    Votes: 10 4.3%
  • Poor Phil Coutinho's walking frame

    Votes: 17 7.2%
  • The club's best table, the one we get out to do all the contracts on.

    Votes: 19 8.1%
  • A Lemur

    Votes: 10 4.3%
  • A Llama

    Votes: 3 1.3%
  • Olly Murs

    Votes: 5 2.1%
  • Virgil Van Dijk, in a recreation of the poster from 'twins'.

    Votes: 39 16.6%
  • Against the window of the club shop, cleverly obscuring a picture of Big Div

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • That bit of Melwood where Ian Ayre caught Rodgers doing [REDACTED]

    Votes: 4 1.7%
  • Michael Edwards' big clicky, whirry computer.

    Votes: 3 1.3%
  • Sad Wenger

    Votes: 43 18.3%
  • A pile of discarded #FSGOUT signs

    Votes: 26 11.1%
  • Mascot's excited stiffy

    Votes: 26 11.1%
  • No lean at all.

    Votes: 30 12.8%

  • Total voters
    235
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Anfield rd Dreamer

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Unlike trading in exchanges where there are nothing else other than charts and numbers, I think football has more visual for you to inspect than just numbers. Put Suarez in Championship and his stats will blow Messi's off the planet, and that's stats for you. Watching them do their thing, the artistry of their work on the pitch would probably shows more than just the number of touches he had in the opposing team's half. Unless you are talking about someone who knows fuck all about the sport, then he had to based on numbers to see how good a player or team really are.
I was pointing out you can't just say a good player will still provide the contributions despite the context of how good the team around them is. You can't assume that Suarez wasn't great because he only scored 11 league goals his first full season with us. You also can't assume Lemar is bad and ignore the bigger picture of the changes at Monaco. If Klopp is still interested there is a reason. It's also a position that isn't as reflective in goals and assists when it comes to quality as well. I don't know if we are still interested but if we are the stats shouldn't be the main focus.
 


Koon

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I'm watching Monaco x Amiens. Dear lord, Lemar is having such a rough time. Horrible display.
 
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What would everybody be happy paying for lemar cause after what’s happening to him at Monaco and him being terrible the season I think we could get him for £40-50
 



mattyhurst

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Shows how important it is to judge players on wider performance rather than just an excellent 12 months or in the case of some 5-6 months. If a player gradually improves cool, if one has a great season and then an ok season after a mixture of great and ok seasons such as Mane then that's fine.

If one just has one great season then bombs the next.... it's not worth just yet spending 80m on him.
 

ILLOK

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He's still near the top for assists in ligue 1. That's his game though, he's a creator. If we signed a winger, I'd prefer it to be somebody a bit more direct, somebody who makes those runs in behind and scores more than Lemar does.

Despite his relatively poor season I still think he's a very good footballer and would easily flourish under Klopp, like every other decent attacking player does. I'm just not sure his profile fits anymore.

He was never a 90 million pound players, we'd have been a laughing stock for paying that. The very definition of a panic buy. I reckon he'll probably end up going for close to half of that if he leaves this summer.
 

Speckydodge

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Lemar is no one season wonder, he's a brilliant player. Obviously had a hard season but I've no doubts he'd be a great signing for us.
 



gr_sounder

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Lemar is no one season wonder, he's a brilliant player. Obviously had a hard season but I've no doubts he'd be a great signing for us.
I'll be honest, I will hope for his sake that he will be able to get back to the form he was in last season... but for me personally... from what I've seen.... I don't expect him to be an exceptional player for a top team. Just something about him and his game that suggests very good player, but not sure he's good enough to be a starter for a team battling for the Premier League title.

He's a small midfielder who is 22 years old (birthday in November) so it's not like he's old or past his development time. But his stats are:
2015/16: 28 GS, 13 Subs, 7 goals, 3 assists (Age 20)
2016/17: 40 GS, 10 Subs, 12 goals, 14 assists (Age 21)
2017/18: 31 GS, 6 Subs, 3 goals, 8 assists (Age 22)

And therein lies the debate. He had a standout season as a 21 year old and a very good/promising one as a 20 year old.
However, this was as part of a team that was fairly well stacked and he could fill certain roles and play off others who were getting more attention from opposing teams.
This past season he lost many of those other weapons, which meant he had a chance to step up, but also meant opposing teams could potentially focus on him and unfortunately it has been a dismal season (comparably).

So while it is possible that before the season (or during winter) he was a 60M-80M player... the concerns from this current season would halve those valuations I would assume.

I'd be fine bringing him in if Klopp thinks he's worth it, but I would hope the fee would be around 40-50M at most
 

ubermick

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French mate of mine described his assists in the 16/17 seaons as "Pogba assists - he gives the ball to someone, and then they do all the work and score." It's certainly an easier proposition when you're delivering the final ball to someone like Mbappe, and the opponents are busy giving their attention to other teammates like Bernardo Silva. This year he's more of the "main man" and seems to have struggled a bit under the mantle.

Not to write him off. Just glad as fuck that we didn't match Arsenal's idiotic offer. (And likewise they should be bloody glad Lemar didn't agree to the move, they'd be hamstrung for a few seasons after that)
 



ubermick

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Liverpool Transfer News: Thomas Lemar Exit Rumours Grow After Fan Abuse
GIANNI VERSCHUEREN
APRIL 29, 2018

Reported Liverpool and Arsenal transfer target Thomas Lemar appears to be edging ever closer to a summer exit from AS Monaco, as fans have now reportedly verbally abused the forward in a car park over his poor form this season.

The France international was one of the main targets of their ire after Saturday's scoreless draw against Amiens, per the Mirror's Martin Domin.

Get French Football News described the scene and explained how his spot for the 2018 FIFA World Cup is under serious threat:

Thomas Lemar is in what can only be described as crisis mode - Monaco fans targeted him with abuse post-match in the car park after another terrible performance. Dimitri Payet very much coming for his World Cup place.

Per Domin, both Arsenal and Liverpool tried to sign the 22-year-old last summer, but Monaco's astronomical demands meant a deal did not go through. He was valued at £100 million, but his pedestrian form this season opens the door for a transfer once again, and at a much lower cost.

Lemar has crashed down to Earth without the aid of the likes of Kylian Mbappe and Bernardo Silva in attack, scoring just two goals in Ligue 1. He has added eight assists and flashed his vast potential at times, but overall, it's been a disappointing season.

It's worth noting Lemar's performances for the national team have been much better than on the club level, however. There are some who believe his poor production is mostly down to the lack of talent around him, as well as a loss of motivation after a transfer to England fell through.

Clubs may be wary of his bad form, but Lemar remains a supremely talented player who could suddenly be available at a much lower cost. Just a season ago, he was showered with praise, as his 2016-17 campaign was just as impressive as that of Silva.

It's hard to see him return to the good graces of the fans, and Monaco have no real reason to keep hold of him. Lemar has made it very clear he wants to move and told reporters how disappointed he was not to be playing at a different club just last month, per Telefoot (h/t Metro).

A summer exit seems inevitable, and unlike a year ago, the likes of Liverpool and Arsenal will sit down at the negotiating table with the leverage on their side. Lemar's value is low at this point, and the Premier League giants should pounce.
 

Ron Swanson

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The lad's head is not in Monaco and hasn't been all season, Arsenal and Us both put a bid though reportedly he wants to join us, so knows it his last season and head is already in the prem. Its not professional should of rolled his sleeves up and put in a shift this season but hasn't. The lad has bags of talent and would be a huge asset but not for £90m if we can get him for half -£55m then it would be good business as under Klopp he could become world class.
 

legalalien

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55 million seems a hell of a gamble on someone who gave up so easily once his mates buggered off to play elsewhere. "Might become world class"? I know transfer fees have become inflated of late, but for 55 million I'd want someone who is doing the business now.
I don't follow clubs and players other than ours but I'm sure other people can tell me names of players costing around 50 million, or less, who are playing well and who aren't getting stick for playing badly. Draxler perhaps?
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Getting Deja-Vu over what was being said of VvD's performances, attitude and professionalism in the first half of the season at Southampton. If we go back in I expect it's because Klopp has a better idea of what he needs to add to the squad and knows Lemar can bring it would not surprise me at all if we bought him and saw an explosion in performance like the one we saw with Salah but more with creativity than goals.
 

legalalien

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But at least VvD had a history of good to very good seasons behind him before his long injury lay-off which was unsurprisingly followed by an indifferent start to the season. Lemar has had one good season and does not have the excuse of a long time out with injury for his poor showing this season. If Klopp is determined to buy him then I think the club would have plenty of leverage to get the price down to a more realistic level.
 



Anfield rd Dreamer

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But at least VvD had a history of good to very good seasons behind him before his long injury lay-off which was unsurprisingly followed by an indifferent start to the season. Lemar has had one good season and does not have the excuse of a long time out with injury for his poor showing this season. If Klopp is determined to buy him then I think the club would have plenty of leverage to get the price down to a more realistic level.
We'll see about price if any moves happen as I have my suspicions regarding this coming summer being bonkers for fees.

With regards to playing VvD didn't have the pedigree that Lemar has established at a much younger age. Lemar has impressed in the later stages of the Champions League and competed in a major leagues title whilst also being a regular for a harder national team to break into.

In both cases a move would be based on Klopp knowing what he needs and seeing it in the player. Status, profile, performances, over people's opinions, how other managers use the player and the performances of the team that player are at are all qualities Klopp doesn't seem to give a flying fuck about.

If Klopp makes a move there is a reason for it and my view would be he'd be wanting to bring a more creative option into the front three (that he lost when Coutinho moved on) that doesn't hamper the speed of our attacking play (which improved when Coutinho moved on) and offers the occasional option in CAM so we can sometimes play a more attacking front 4. Think Pulisic is his first choice but Lemar and Bailey are probably other options.
 

Hound

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Klopp wants, and needs, players that he can count on to put in the work even when their game isn't coming off on the day. Can you count on Lemar to do that? On current evidence I'd say highly unlikely. He's not exactly a Milner or Ox (or Firmino) type in terms of work rate and tackling frequency anyway.

I think Liverpool can do better, regardless of the price.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Klopp wants, and needs, players that he can count on to put in the work even when their game isn't coming off on the day. Can you count on Lemar to do that? On current evidence I'd say highly unlikely. He's not exactly a Milner or Ox (or Firmino) type in terms of work rate and tackling frequency anyway.

I think Liverpool can do better, regardless of the price.
Could have said the exact same kind of thing (in fact some did) about Mane as just one example.
 

Scott Jones

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Could have said the exact same kind of thing (in fact some did) about Mane as just one example.
Mane cost 2½ times less than the high price and half the low price of Lemar so not really a similar case,this lad has completely gone off the boil and seems a bit fickle tbh,could be sulking a bit and maybe he's not happy but the price needs to match the level of risk but i don't think the price will come down enough.
 

Hound

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Could have said the exact same kind of thing (in fact some did) about Mane as just one example.
Sure, one could say it. It'd be wrong, but that doesn't stop people from saying wrong things all the time.

Mane got better and more active from his first to second year at Southampton. More goals, more assists, better passing, more tackles, more interceptions...you get the idea. The only thing that was down a bit was his chance creation, but he offset that with creating more shots for himself. Importantly, he got more shots in the penalty area as well. Also importantly, he did it playing suboptimal positions (in the middle much more often, where he wasn't as productive), which both make his production more impressive, and conveniently helped to depress the price Southampton could ask for him. If you looked just at him as a winger at Southampton, he compared very similarly to Arsenal-era Alexis Sanchez. Tremendously smart and inexpensive move by Liverpool.

Now, back to Lemar. His tackles are down from an already concerningly low number for a prospective Klopp player, interceptions down, goals down, assists down (slightly), chance creation down. Even more concerning is that it was always highly likely that his goals would be down. he scored 9 goals on 20 shots on target in Ligue 1 last year. That is impossible to maintain, even if you're Messi, which Lemar is far from. But this year, almost half of his shots are on set pieces. He gets a shot in open play about every other game. He gets a shot from inside the box about 1/4 as often as Mane and less often than any Liverpool front 5 player this year except Milner, who covers more ground in the warmup than Lemar does all day. In Ligue 1 -- the #5 league in Europe. Sound like a Klopp attacker/midfield "8" to you? Not to me.

I don't see a reason to prefer him to Houssem Aouar or Adrien Rabiot from the same league, and I'm not even saying either of them should be bought -- just that they should be bought before Lemar.

It's worth noting that pretty much all of the recent smoke on this is coming from either Monaco or papers speculating based on the fan unrest. There's very little credible information that Liverpool is still interested, and I have my doubts that they ever were.

Liverpool has made some very analytically shrewd transfers in the last few windows, and Lemar would not be one. Until proven otherwise, I'm going to assume that Liverpool will continue to value analysis and advanced statistics. I would be surprised if any of them view Lemar's performance this year favorably.
 



Dimitriy

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We'll see about price if any moves happen as I have my suspicions regarding this coming summer being bonkers for fees.

With regards to playing VvD didn't have the pedigree that Lemar has established at a much younger age. Lemar has impressed in the later stages of the Champions League and competed in a major leagues title whilst also being a regular for a harder national team to break into.

In both cases a move would be based on Klopp knowing what he needs and seeing it in the player. Status, profile, performances, over people's opinions, how other managers use the player and the performances of the team that player are at are all qualities Klopp doesn't seem to give a flying fuck about.

If Klopp makes a move there is a reason for it and my view would be he'd be wanting to bring a more creative option into the front three (that he lost when Coutinho moved on) that doesn't hamper the speed of our attacking play (which improved when Coutinho moved on) and offers the occasional option in CAM so we can sometimes play a more attacking front 4. Think Pulisic is his first choice but Lemar and Bailey are probably other options.
Very close to my opinion...Each player where we put money (especially when we have put serious amounts), has "performed /punched above the waist". If we are still after him there is a reason....I think he will be great, together with Mane, exchanging spaces and roles. Pulisic is explosive, but I think we need a player of that mould, but with a playmaking ability. He was great against England in that role !
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Mane cost 2½ times less than the high price and half the low price of Lemar so not really a similar case,this lad has completely gone off the boil and seems a bit fickle tbh,could be sulking a bit and maybe he's not happy but the price needs to match the level of risk but i don't think the price will come down enough.
Mane was very expensive at the time. Looking back, taking into account how well it's worked and how the market has gone since it certainly looks like a bargain. But in the window he was bought that was still a decent amount to pay. If and when Lemar is sold I think anything of around £60 million or below would look like a bargain for a player of that type.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Sure, one could say it. It'd be wrong, but that doesn't stop people from saying wrong things all the time.

Mane got better and more active from his first to second year at Southampton. More goals, more assists, better passing, more tackles, more interceptions...you get the idea. The only thing that was down a bit was his chance creation, but he offset that with creating more shots for himself. Importantly, he got more shots in the penalty area as well. Also importantly, he did it playing suboptimal positions (in the middle much more often, where he wasn't as productive), which both make his production more impressive, and conveniently helped to depress the price Southampton could ask for him. If you looked just at him as a winger at Southampton, he compared very similarly to Arsenal-era Alexis Sanchez. Tremendously smart and inexpensive move by Liverpool.

Now, back to Lemar. His tackles are down from an already concerningly low number for a prospective Klopp player, interceptions down, goals down, assists down (slightly), chance creation down. Even more concerning is that it was always highly likely that his goals would be down. he scored 9 goals on 20 shots on target in Ligue 1 last year. That is impossible to maintain, even if you're Messi, which Lemar is far from. But this year, almost half of his shots are on set pieces. He gets a shot in open play about every other game. He gets a shot from inside the box about 1/4 as often as Mane and less often than any Liverpool front 5 player this year except Milner, who covers more ground in the warmup than Lemar does all day. In Ligue 1 -- the #5 league in Europe. Sound like a Klopp attacker/midfield "8" to you? Not to me.

I don't see a reason to prefer him to Houssem Aouar or Adrien Rabiot from the same league, and I'm not even saying either of them should be bought -- just that they should be bought before Lemar.

It's worth noting that pretty much all of the recent smoke on this is coming from either Monaco or papers speculating based on the fan unrest. There's very little credible information that Liverpool is still interested, and I have my doubts that they ever were.

Liverpool has made some very analytically shrewd transfers in the last few windows, and Lemar would not be one. Until proven otherwise, I'm going to assume that Liverpool will continue to value analysis and advanced statistics. I would be surprised if any of them view Lemar's performance this year favorably.
You said; "can count on to put in the work even when their game isn't coming off on the day"!

A lot of doubt has been in posts of Mane and Wijnaldum and many others we've targeted and bought regarding how hard they work. Klopp has an effect on apparently lazy players that shows that sometimes it's not actually the player that's the problem.
 

Hound

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You said; "can count on to put in the work even when their game isn't coming off on the day"!

A lot of doubt has been in posts of Mane and Wijnaldum and many others we've targeted and bought regarding how hard they work. Klopp has an effect on apparently lazy players that shows that sometimes it's not actually the player that's the problem.
I know you don't know much about me, but one thing I'll say is I usually don't care what the majority or "some people" thinks, bc most people don't check their facts. I already posted today about how it's not true that Mane slacked off and that he actually got better in his 2nd year at Southampton.

There can't be much doubt, in numbers or observation, that Lemar has slacked off. Thing that is as or more concerning is that he was never that great to start to with, and was always due a regression in his goal scoring because he just doesn't get into scoring areas very much. But this season he has hardly bothered to try to get shots in open play. It's not like Monaco is a terrible team now either -- they're still going to be in the Champions League and could finish as high as 2nd.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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I know you don't know much about me, but one thing I'll say is I usually don't care what the majority or "some people" thinks, bc most people don't check their facts. I already posted today about how it's not true that Mane slacked off and that he actually got better in his 2nd year at Southampton.

There can't be much doubt, in numbers or observation, that Lemar has slacked off. Thing that is as or more concerning is that he was never that great to start to with, and was always due a regression in his goal scoring because he just doesn't get into scoring areas very much. But this season he has hardly bothered to try to get shots in open play. It's not like Monaco is a terrible team now either -- they're still going to be in the Champions League and could finish as high as 2nd.
New member? Something very familiar about you!
 



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