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Thomas Lemar (LW/AM) Monaco

What will Thomas Lemar be leaning on?

  • Me, when you're not strong, and I'll be your friend, I'll help you carry on.

    Votes: 10 4.3%
  • Poor Phil Coutinho's walking frame

    Votes: 17 7.2%
  • The club's best table, the one we get out to do all the contracts on.

    Votes: 19 8.1%
  • A Lemur

    Votes: 10 4.3%
  • A Llama

    Votes: 3 1.3%
  • Olly Murs

    Votes: 5 2.1%
  • Virgil Van Dijk, in a recreation of the poster from 'twins'.

    Votes: 39 16.6%
  • Against the window of the club shop, cleverly obscuring a picture of Big Div

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • That bit of Melwood where Ian Ayre caught Rodgers doing [REDACTED]

    Votes: 4 1.7%
  • Michael Edwards' big clicky, whirry computer.

    Votes: 3 1.3%
  • Sad Wenger

    Votes: 43 18.3%
  • A pile of discarded #FSGOUT signs

    Votes: 26 11.1%
  • Mascot's excited stiffy

    Votes: 26 11.1%
  • No lean at all.

    Votes: 30 12.8%

  • Total voters
    235
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Hound

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OK not really liking how this is going. Two posts now from different posters disrespecting me because I'm new. I'm not really into hazing rituals.

So carry on, I don't care. I have no worries, at all, that Liverpool will be buying Lemar this summer. I don't think they're even interested.
 


rupzzz

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Mane cost 2½ times less than the high price and half the low price of Lemar so not really a similar case,this lad has completely gone off the boil and seems a bit fickle tbh,could be sulking a bit and maybe he's not happy but the price needs to match the level of risk but i don't think the price will come down enough.
Berahino MKII
 

StrongINTheAir

The voice of reason
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I think a big side of this is what happens with the rest of our midfield. Can leaves? Ox recovery takes a long time and is a risk to never fully recover? Miller’s Fountain of Youth eventually runs dry? Hendo has reoccurring foot problems? Lallana doesn’t return?
Seems to me that adding Keita, while being a great addition, isn’t enough to answer all of those potential questions.
The question then becomes, does Lemar answer any of them?
 

Hound

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I definitely agree there are questions to be answered at the position. I'll be surprised if there isn't another buy there. Just don't think lemar has done what is necessary this year to be the one.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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The million dollar question really is: was last season a flash in the pan, or a natural consequence of playing with better players (who have since moved on)?

If it's the former then it would be best to swerve, but if it's the latter then he would naturally improve playing with a team as talented as ours, and if a difficult season in France has caused his asking price to drop by 30% or more, then all the better.

I'm not qualified to make that call, however. With the very limited knowledge I have I'd say I'd be pretty happy with any of Lemar, Pulisic or Bailey... really, that is the bracket of talent we need to be recruiting in.
 



Koon

Very bad englando. I'm so sorry.
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Klopp knows stuff. If he wants Lemar, the boy will be great for us. It's plain and simple. I learned not to doubt our manager.
 

Iluvatar

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The million dollar question really is: was last season a flash in the pan, or a natural consequence of playing with better players (who have since moved on)?

If it's the former then it would be best to swerve, but if it's the latter then he would naturally improve playing with a team as talented as ours, and if a difficult season in France has caused his asking price to drop by 30% or more, then all the better.

I'm not qualified to make that call, however. With the very limited knowledge I have I'd say I'd be pretty happy with any of Lemar, Pulisic or Bailey... really, that is the bracket of talent we need to be recruiting in.
After the success of Robertson I really don't mind if we sign someone from the lower leagues in China.. I trust they will fit right in :)
 

redfanman

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I think a big side of this is what happens with the rest of our midfield. Can leaves? Ox recovery takes a long time and is a risk to never fully recover? Miller’s Fountain of Youth eventually runs dry? Hendo has reoccurring foot problems? Lallana doesn’t return?
Seems to me that adding Keita, while being a great addition, isn’t enough to answer all of those potential questions.
The question then becomes, does Lemar answer any of them?
Signing Keita isnt meant to answer all of those questions. We already know that the club are trying to sign at least 1 player in addition to him for midfield this summer. For all we know there might be further signings already planned for the middle. By bringing in players to strengthen other areas too, we take the pressure off of the midfield any way to give the squad better options.
 

Gone Kloppo

Formerly known as Ʒan
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I think a big side of this is what happens with the rest of our midfield. Can leaves? Ox recovery takes a long time and is a risk to never fully recover? Miller’s Fountain of Youth eventually runs dry? Hendo has reoccurring foot problems? Lallana doesn’t return?
Seems to me that adding Keita, while being a great addition, isn’t enough to answer all of those potential questions.
The question then becomes, does Lemar answer any of them?
There's also the possibility that the players go on a 'midfielders only' end of season trip to Central America and get kidnapped by drug lords. Then we would have zero midfielders.

These things need to be planned for with more bodies.
 

Hound

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Klopp knows stuff. If he wants Lemar, the boy will be great for us. It's plain and simple. I learned not to doubt our manager.
Or the analysis and recruitment team at the club. They've all been fantastic the last few years.
 



vjcpatriot

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Messages
910
Lemar is not in the best of form this season compared to the one prior. He seems to be a very expensive/risky preposition. Is his lowered form because his stats were 'propped' up by playing with better players? What can he bring to the table for Liverpool?

I feel there are cheaper and younger options we could look at.

Neves has looked really good with Wolves. I'm aware that their competition was only the Championship but they earned promotion, thanks in large part to the efforts of Neves.

The two most promising young players I believe are Neves and Sessegnon. Liverpool should look to recruit bsign of them and see if they can shine at the next level.
 

nobluff

Official TIA Match Thread Starter
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Lemar is not in the best of form this season compared to the one prior. He seems to be a very expensive/risky preposition. Is his lowered form because his stats were 'propped' up by playing with better players? What can he bring to the table for Liverpool?

I feel there are cheaper and younger options we could look at.

Neves has looked really good with Wolves. I'm aware that their competition was only the Championship but they earned promotion, thanks in large part to the efforts of Neves.

The two most promising young players I believe are Neves and Sessegnon. Liverpool should look to recruit bsign of them and see if they can shine at the next level.
Mbappe is not in the best of form this season compared to the one prior, and he is playing in a MUCH better side.
 

Hound

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Mbappe is not in the best of form this season compared to the one prior, and he is playing in a MUCH better side.
He's been just as good or better, just less lucky. His goal rate is down but he's playing as well or better overall. He scored on like 30% of his shots last year. Pretty unlikely that was going to happen 2 years in a row.
 

HKReds

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Not sure if this is another one of the contributing factor towards his poor form this season but I remember reading somewhere that he is used more centrally this season compared to last season where he is playing as a wide left forward
 



rab

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Monaco lost Mbappe, Silva, Mendy and Bakayoko and replaced them with the likes of Balde, Tielemans, Jovetic and a 16 year old kid.

Take Salah, Firmino, Van Dyke and Henderson out our team and replace them with those guys Monaco bought and I bet Mane's production drops off a cliff too, especially if a top club had also been making moves for him.

Too much talk of production numbers and not enough assessment of the guys abilities.
 

Hound

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Monaco lost Mbappe, Silva, Mendy and Bakayoko and replaced them with the likes of Balde, Tielemans, Jovetic and a 16 year old kid.

Take Salah, Firmino, Van Dyke and Henderson out our team and replace them with those guys Monaco bought and I bet Mane's production drops off a cliff too, especially if a top club had also been making moves for him.

Too much talk of production numbers and not enough assessment of the guys abilities.
Mane's league production is not far off what it was at Southampton, actually. So one might say we've already seen that.

Ignoring numbers in favor of "assessment of ability" is how big expensive mistakes used to get made. Numbers are usually reflective of ability or effort. Klopp needs both. Again, it's not like Monaco sucks now. Maybe they'd be better if Lemar was playing harder.

Ronny Lopes, playing largely the same positions (only frequently on the right) is having a better year than Lemar.
 
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Anfield rd Dreamer

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Mane's league production is not far off what it was at Southampton, actually. So one might say we've already seen that.

Ignoring numbers in favor of "assessment of ability" is how big expensive mistakes used to get made. Numbers are usually reflective of ability or effort. Klopp needs both. Again, it's not like Monaco sucks now. Maybe they'd be better if Lemar was playing harder.

Ronny Lopes, playing largely the same positions (only frequently on the right) is having a better year than Lemar.
"Ignoring numbers in favor of "assessment of ability" is how big expensive mistakes used to get made. Numbers are usually reflective of ability or effort. Klopp needs both."

Suarez was one of the hardest workers we've ever had and one with the best ability. But in Kennys full season, in the wrong tactical set up and with inferior players like Downing and Adam to link up with, he still posted some disappointing numbers. For me it's a team game and two thirds or three quarters of what a player can achieve on the pitch is determined by the quality of his team mates and tactical instructions of his manager.
 

Hound

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"Ignoring numbers in favor of "assessment of ability" is how big expensive mistakes used to get made. Numbers are usually reflective of ability or effort. Klopp needs both."

Suarez was one of the hardest workers we've ever had and one with the best ability. But in Kennys full season, in the wrong tactical set up and with inferior players like Downing and Adam to link up with, he still posted some disappointing numbers. For me it's a team game and two thirds or three quarters of what a player can achieve on the pitch is determined by the quality of his team mates and tactical instructions of his manager.
And Barcelona didn't come around until he was banging in the goals, did they? Just like Liverpool didn't come around Ajax until after he scored 50 in a season. And the club is far more numbers-smart now than then. Comolli had the right idea as far as using them, he just didn't have a clue what he was doing. Fortunately that didn't put FSG off the idea.

The way things are being done today, players like Downing and Adam and Carroll wouldn't have been bought. Problem solved.
 

rab

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Mane's league production is not far off what it was at Southampton, actually. So one might say we've already seen that.

Ignoring numbers in favor of "assessment of ability" is how big expensive mistakes used to get made. Numbers are usually reflective of ability or effort. Klopp needs both. Again, it's not like Monaco sucks now. Maybe they'd be better if Lemar was playing harder.

Ronny Lopes, playing largely the same positions (only frequently on the right) is having a better year than Lemar.
Sorry but no. Using stats and not considering ability is how we ended up with the likes of Downing, Adam, Mignolet, Lovren and the like. Stats in one team are in no way directly transferrable from one team to another. Skill and ability however is far more transferrable.

You buy Firmino for his ability, not his production at Hoffenheim. You buy Salah for his skillset not because he scored a lot in Italy.

Lemar clearly has ability, shown both for Monaco and France. His production is down this year but there are clear reasons as to why that could be. Doesn't mean he's any less of a player.
 



Dave-D

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Has there actually been any recent reliable links with Lemar to Liverpool for the thread to be think busy????
 

Hound

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Sorry but no. Using stats and not considering ability is how we ended up with the likes of Downing, Adam, Mignolet, Lovren and the like. Stats in one team are in no way directly transferrable from one team to another. Skill and ability however is far more transferrable.

You buy Firmino for his ability, not his production at Hoffenheim. You buy Salah for his skillset not because he scored a lot in Italy.

Lemar clearly has ability, shown both for Monaco and France. His production is down this year but there are clear reasons as to why that could be. Doesn't mean he's any less of a player.
Sorry, but yes.

Firmino and Salah were both tremendously productive players when Liverpool bought them. Much more so than Downing, Adam, etc. GKs and CBs are tougher to assess in that way,but Van Dijk was a standout in numbers as well. Firmino and Salah were used in different ways to how they are now, but the ability was certainly reflected in the data.

Lemar isn't coming. Liverpool can and will do better, and will certainly get someone that works harder and gives more to his team.

Production matters. Data matters. Ignorance of that is how you get summer business like Everton did last year.

Done here.
 
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rab

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Sorry, but yes.

Firmino and Salah were both tremendously productive players when Liverpool bought them. Much more so than Downing, Adam, etc. GKs and CBs are tougher to assess in that way,but Van Dijk was a standout in numbers as well. Firmino and Salah were used in different ways to how they are now, but the ability was certainly reflected in the data.

Lemar isn't coming. Liverpool can and will do better, and will certainly get someone that works harder and gives more to his team.

Production matters. Data matters. Ignorance of that is how you get summer business like Everton did last year.

Done here.
Thanks Damien Comoli.

If data is all that matters I guess we can ditch the scouting network and the youth system then?

What's amusing is the season before Firmino arrived here he scored 7 and assisted 10 in 33 games. The season before that he got 16 goals and 12 assists in 33, by far his most prolific season to that point. So by your own logic we shouldn't have bought him as his production had regressed back to its normal level.

Guess it's a good job data isn't the only thing the club base decions on.
 
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Hound

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Thanks Damien Comoli.

If data is all that matters I guess we can ditch the scoring network and the youth system then?

What's amusing here is the season before Firmino arrived here he scored 7 and assisted 10 in 33 games. The season before that he got 16 goals and 12 assists in 33, by far his most prolific season to that point. So by your own logic we shouldn't have bought him as his production had regressed back to his normal level.

Guess it's a good job data isn't the only thing the club base decions on.
You don't know what you're talking about. It's just that simple.

Production isn't just goals and assists.
Thanks Damien Comoli.

If data is all that matters I guess we can ditch the scouting network and the youth system then?

What's amusing is the season before Firmino arrived here he scored 7 and assisted 10 in 33 games. The season before that he got 16 goals and 12 assists in 33, by far his most prolific season to that point. So by your own logic we shouldn't have bought him as his production had regressed back to its normal level.

Guess it's a good job data isn't the only thing the club base decions on.
Wow that is some deep fried baloney right there.

LITERALLY the last word of my post you quoted:
"Production isn't just goals and assists."

You: "goals assists blah blah" nothing else.

The only thing you've shown is that Liverpool should have bought Firmino a year earlier. I agree with that.

In Firmino's last year at Hoffenheim he had more tackles, more interceptions, fewer failed tackles, lost possession less. So much like the BS about Mane, this is also BS and the complete opposite of what has happened with Lemar.

Fortunately LFC is going to let someone else make the Lemar mistake. Seems like a good fit for Arsenal what with the inconsistent effort and low work rate.
 



Hound

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Yes you stop clicking on it.
Great, more trashposting. I ask a genuine question and this is the trash I get back from arguably the person that caused this series of events.

I think I'll learn how the ignore feature works. You don't seem to have any value to add for me.
 

Phil123

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Great, more trashposting. I ask a genuine question and this is the trash I get back from arguably the person that caused this series of events.

I think I'll learn how the ignore feature works. You don't seem to have any value to add for me.
He is telling the truth mate, just stop clicking on them , you will stop receiving notifications
 



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