Timo Werner (CF) RB Leipzig

ILLOK

In the Danger Zone.
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
14,741
Likes
25,672
#32
i would love to have william here but av heard he can be a bit lazy which wouldnt go down well with our gaffer
Willian is not lazy at all, under Mourinho he was basically played as a workhorse wide player type (glorified Kuyt).

He's fudged his career a bit going to Chelsea IMO. Don't get me wrong, he's won quite a few medals which is all well and good, but under different circumstances I think he could have been talked about as one of the top players in the world. For too long at Chelsea he wasn't producing the end product that would elevate to him to that sort of stature, and that I'd say was down to the the way he was being used.
 

Last edited:

GermanRed

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2017
Messages
1,840
Likes
2,622
#33
Willian is not lazy at all, under Mourinho he was basically played as a workhorse wide player type (glorified Kuyt).

He's fudged his career a bit going to Chelsea IMO. Don't get me wrong, he's won quite a few medals which is all well and good, but under different circumstances I think he could have been talked about as one of the top players in the world. For too long at Chelsea he wasn't producing the end product that would elevate to him to that sort of stature, and that I'd say was down to the the way he was being used.
I always say that from all the players we signed and were after under Rodgers Willian would have been the second best behind Coutinho. And ich think we were very close to sign him.
 

Nikola

Mediocre outcome is the probable outcome.
Admin
Joined
May 17, 2007
Messages
17,520
Likes
10,682
#34
Alongside Keita and Van Dijk, this is probably the most predictable Liverpool target since I've started supporting the club. We spoke of all three fitting Klopp's football long before they were linked with the club and had them on our wish lists. I've said before that I didn't know many strikers who would fit this Liverpool team like Werner and Morata, mainly because they are able to play in many different striking roles, be it a lone striker, or a second striker, or even as some sort of wide forward.

While I'm desperate for Danny Ings to remain fit and prove himself and for Solanke to become English version of Firmino at Liverpool, club shouldn't be banking on them to take the goalscoring burden off Firmino. Werner does come as a bit of a, well, @Cologne-Liverpool has put it correctly, and there was that episode where he was intimidated by crowd at Besiktas, but he's a great finisher, hard worker, seems to be a bit too cocky for my liking but that's what good strikers tend to be, I guess.

I think he'd fit Liverpool like a glove but another episode of negotiations with Leipzig, this time for a highly rated, young German international in a World Cup year... Do club really need that? I also don't think he'll leave Leipzig for another year, maybe the club are laying down the groundwork early (perhaps another winger to come in this summer, so Salah could play as backup to Firmino if a need occurs?). It's a difficult transfer to pull off, even though he isn't a top class player but could very much become one in the right team.
 

Cologne-Liverpool

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2015
Messages
2,898
Likes
8,649
#35
Just looked up who Werner's agent is. Random fact: turns out it's Karlheinz Förster, Jürgen's childhood idol as a player (played for Stuttgart and won the European Cup in 1980.) Not sure if any of that is of any help, but they certainly know each other and Jürgen has his phone number...;-)

Edit: I meant the European championship of course, not the European Cup...Second language and all that, excuse-moi.
 
Last edited:

lfc.eddie

"¿Plata... O Plomo?"
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
49,983
Likes
37,106
#37
Just looked up who Werner's agent is. Random fact: turns out it's Karlheinz Förster, Jürgen's childhood idol as a player (played for Stuttgart and won the European Cup in 1980.) Not sure if any of that is of any help, but they certainly know each other and Jürgen has his phone number...;-)
The important question, does he possess super agent power?
 

legalalien

Watcher of the skies
Joined
Oct 23, 2010
Messages
8,106
Likes
8,253
#38
I get the feeling with this guy that he's another who will use us a stepping stone to what he sees as greater glory. Give him a couple of years and he'll be off to Spain or to Bayern. Personally I'd be happy if we gave our youngsters the kind of opportunities that he was given a few years back. If Woodburn or Wilson, for example, turn out to have the right stuff then we would have top class first team players there who don't see us as a stepping stone.
Of course, they could turn out to be Sterling mk.II.
 

Maggot_Birdy

TIA New Signing
Joined
Aug 28, 2010
Messages
93
Likes
50
#39
I think he is certainly the right move. Firminio is good, but one-dimensional. Certainly Firminho will be given priority, especially in crucial big games (like City this year) where he wants front three to press up high, combine, interchange positions etc. But, i think Klopp has noticed himself how difficult we have found breaking down minor opponents that sit back massively, where firminio is less and less effective. The use of a natural goalscorer, able to see the right shot in pockets of space, there is a much promising alternative. Right now we simply don't have one. If Salah does not pull out a rabit out of his hat with some magic in tight space, we are stalled in these kind of situations. Werner can provide more options, and more depth that we need badly. Plus, he is only 22, and has potential to become better and better
 

GermanRed

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2017
Messages
1,840
Likes
2,622
#40
I get the feeling with this guy that he's another who will use us a stepping stone to what he sees as greater glory. Give him a couple of years and he'll be off to Spain or to Bayern. Personally I'd be happy if we gave our youngsters the kind of opportunities that he was given a few years back. If Woodburn or Wilson, for example, turn out to have the right stuff then we would have top class first team players there who don't see us as a stepping stone.
Of course, they could turn out to be Sterling mk.II.
I think what many people outside germany don't get is that Bayern are not (yet) ready to pay big fees like we did for Keita and VvD.
Bayern would probably love to have Timo Werner but if Leipzig misses out on CL (that's the only chance i can see him want to leave) then Leipzig would ask for a higher fee than we paid for Keita and Bayern would be out of the race.
 

redfanman

TIA Regular
Joined
Apr 29, 2008
Messages
11,305
Likes
10,805
#41
I think what many people outside germany don't get is that Bayern are not (yet) ready to pay big fees like we did for Keita and VvD.
Bayern would probably love to have Timo Werner but if Leipzig misses out on CL (that's the only chance i can see him want to leave) then Leipzig would ask for a higher fee than we paid for Keita and Bayern would be out of the race.
They Did with Martinez, and so might for the right player. Given how they are hoovering a lot of talent up on the cheap, i wouldnt rule it out.
 

rupzzz

TIA Regular
Joined
Feb 26, 2011
Messages
6,658
Likes
5,484
#42
Watched the RedBull in the Europa League last night - they were under the kosh for long periods in the 2nd half, but there was one moment on the counter where Werner won a tackle in our third (in around the 85th min), ran the length of the pitch and played a lovely square ball to Bruma(?) - unfortunately the chance wasn't taken, but the pace and dribbling caught my attention.

He's not rapid like Mane or Salah, but he got up the pitch quick. He seems a lot more direct than Bobby, but no where near as skillful in terms of clever touches etc.

The problem is that he would probably struggle to displace Firmino as a regular starter, unless Firmino drops deeper. Werner is likely to play at the World Cup, and also want to play first team footy.

Personally, the more players of high quality we can get in, the better, but as long as it's for the collective cause.

Signings during the Klopp reign thus far have all done well - more of the same I expect from whoever comes in.
 

Nikola

Mediocre outcome is the probable outcome.
Admin
Joined
May 17, 2007
Messages
17,520
Likes
10,682
#43
I think what many people outside germany don't get is that Bayern are not (yet) ready to pay big fees like we did for Keita and VvD.
Bayern would probably love to have Timo Werner but if Leipzig misses out on CL (that's the only chance i can see him want to leave) then Leipzig would ask for a higher fee than we paid for Keita and Bayern would be out of the race.
I've always had this feeling that they wouldn't want to spend some outrageous amounts of money like Manchester clubs, Chelsea and even Liverpool (with Van Dijk and Keita) but they still spend big (Tolisso, Neuer, Vidal, Renato Sanches - all were pretty expensive). They know how to spend money, I give them that, Sanches aside, it's been quite a while since they had a big money flop in their ranks.
 

Iluvatar

Allez Allez Allez
Joined
Sep 13, 2015
Messages
6,039
Likes
8,975
#44
The great teams always had 2 top class strikers.. If you are winning (trophies) players won't care if they are rotating.

Bobby can always drop deeper as a no.10.
Werner can always play outwide.
We can always go for 442 (especially against those park the bus teams).

Would be a fantastic signing.
 

Limiescouse

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
11,734
Likes
15,587
#46
I've always had this feeling that they wouldn't want to spend some outrageous amounts of money like Manchester clubs, Chelsea and even Liverpool (with Van Dijk and Keita) but they still spend big (Tolisso, Neuer, Vidal, Renato Sanches - all were pretty expensive). They know how to spend money, I give them that, Sanches aside, it's been quite a while since they had a big money flop in their ranks.
What I find interesting about the way City spend money is that they dont seem that interested in getting involved in the Galactico auctions. If they are going to spend 200 million in a summer they are not going to worry about the PR splash of signing the most expensive player int he world, but spending it on 4 players each of whom cost 50 million and address 4 spots in their squad with excellent players. It's taken them a while to get it right given 3 or 4 seasons of misses, but they look on target now. This has always struck me as the way Bayern spend their money as well. It's a sort of rich, effective pragmatism.
 

Nikola

Mediocre outcome is the probable outcome.
Admin
Joined
May 17, 2007
Messages
17,520
Likes
10,682
#47
What I find interesting about the way City spend money is that they dont seem that interested in getting involved in the Galactico auctions. If they are going to spend 200 million in a summer they are not going to worry about the PR splash of signing the most expensive player int he world, but spending it on 4 players each of whom cost 50 million and address 4 spots in their squad with excellent players. It's taken them a while to get it right given 3 or 4 seasons of misses, but they look on target now. This has always struck me as the way Bayern spend their money as well. It's a sort of rich, effective pragmatism.
True that. I've always admired the way they spend their money, just not the kind of players they spend it on - their rivals' best, creating the least competitive big league in European football (though PSG and Juventus will have their say in it as well). Liverpool's spending couldn't really match theirs because, Ballack and Kroos aside, I can't remember the last time they missed out on a player they wanted to buy or keep.

However, what Liverpool did in traces, so to speak, with Alonso, Mascherano, Torres and Suarez, they are now looking to do with majority of their transfers - not saying that any of them will become as great Liverpool players as these four but I can't stress how pleased I am that Liverpool are now looking at that upper echelon of talented players in 22-26 age bracket who are not top class but certainly on the upward trajectory and possibly able to become a top one. Werner should be in that group by all accounts, I think that all of Van Dijk, Keita, Mane, Firmino, Salah and even AOC are, not to mention players who Liverpool have missed out on (Costa, Willian, Sanchez, Mkhitaryan etc.) and I hope that Klopp can further add such players to his side this summer.
 

ubermick

Willing to drive Lovren to the airport
Admin
Joined
Jan 22, 2007
Messages
11,185
Likes
18,331
#48
Bayern don't really need to splash the cash, they have the draw - similar to Barcelona and Real. Every year they're the top favourites for the title and get it more often than not, are usually in the mix for the Champions League - so guaranteed medals.

You'll see the Spanish giants spend massive money, but it's generally on players who aren't Spanish nationals. When you look at deals inside their own border, they're able to snag Spanish talent into their ranks comparatively easily. Bayern are similar in that vein with German players - the second they show interest, that's it, the player's head is turned and it becomes a matter of when, not if. (Goretzka being the latest example.)

Of course, Bayern and the Bundesliga in general don't have the megabucks money coming in that the Premiership does, or Real/Barca's marketing machine generates, but they don't need it. They're able to choose from the cream of the crop from one of the best footballing nations on the planet, and then augment with the occasional top class signing.
 

Zoran

Fighting like beavers.
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
16,526
Likes
10,460
#49
I agree with those mentioned feelings. Not sure how far we'll be willing or able to go for this one. For years now, Germany lacked a striker of genuine individual quality. But with their outstanding midfield options and them probably taking over from Spain (as a side note I still rate them as dangerous, simply too much quality and depth to count them out) now as being that international side that functions almost like a club side, a forward like Werner working hard, attacking space to get on the end of things, scoring goals and all that could do wonders in Russia. And that could do extra wonders for his price. Would Klopp see him as one to possibly replace Firmino? I don't think so. Would we go top dollar for this guy to act more as backup, able to cover 2 out of 3 front 3 positions? Not sure either. I can understand why we're maybe keeping Leipzig aware of our interest, monitoring the situation as the guy seemingly ticks a lot of boxes to be a forward for a side of our style, aims and the competition we have to beat... but somehow I'm not convinced this one will happen.
 

MarkMcC

TIA Squad Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
3,300
Likes
1,433
#50
The kind of money that would be required to sign him will mean that more than likely he will play. So are we better with Firmino Salah and Mane leaving a likely midfield of AOC, Keita and Henderson. Or Salah Werner and Mane with Firmino replacing AOC as the most advanced midfielder or acting as a No 10. Both look like they could work well but must admit would rather see the 60-70m on Weigl
 

Limiescouse

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
11,734
Likes
15,587
#51
The kind of money that would be required to sign him will mean that more than likely he will play. So are we better with Firmino Salah and Mane leaving a likely midfield of AOC, Keita and Henderson. Or Salah Werner and Mane with Firmino replacing AOC as the most advanced midfielder or acting as a No 10. Both look like they could work well but must admit would rather see the 60-70m on Weigl
It may seem absurd, but despite how good our front three are there is a decent argument that (especially with Keita already on his way) adding to those ranks with a similarly good player is the most important thing we can do this summer. See the supposed continued interest (at least from the fans) in Lemar. The combination of roles Werner plays is different than Lemar, but they are both expensive players who on our best day might not get in the side, but I'd be happy with either.
 

GermanRed

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2017
Messages
1,840
Likes
2,622
#52
It may seem absurd, but despite how good our front three are there is a decent argument that (especially with Keita already on his way) adding to those ranks with a similarly good player is the most important thing we can do this summer. See the supposed continued interest (at least from the fans) in Lemar. The combination of roles Werner plays is different than Lemar, but they are both expensive players who on our best day might not get in the side, but I'd be happy with either.
The magic word here is unpredictability. We have Firmino who is everywhere on the pitch. Mané who can play left and right. Salah is a right winger who often plays like a second striker. Add Timo Werner to that - a player who can play in different striker roles but also started his professional career on both wings and is fast enough to do that in the PL too. Opponents would not only not know who will start before a match but also they would not know where and in what formation or front line would start.
 

Koon

Very bad englando. I'm so sorry.
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
348
Likes
460
#53
Highly doubt this is true for 3 reasons:

- He is staying at Leipzig next season
- Klopp can make a lot of changes, but two players won't leave their positions for sure: Salah and Firmino.
- We need to upgrade (I'm talking about starters here) other positions that are far more important than a new striker/second striker/winger and our money is limited in that sense.

Adding a second striker when we have Salah is not smart move. Making Firmino 10 is not a smart move because it would mean less space for Salah to run with another striker and the Salah (poacher) - Firmino (space creator) connection would become more less strong.

I really, really don't think we will see another striker next season. Maybe a backup winger, but not a striker. Werner will be worth like £50m, you can't waste this kind of money on a rotation player.

I think we will spend money on at least 2 new MF + a CB and I'm talking about £30~50m+ a player.

Werner has potential, but we already have Firmino and Salah. If we are going to use Werner as a winger, we should just buy a proper winger/AM like Forsberg.
 

Maggot_Birdy

TIA New Signing
Joined
Aug 28, 2010
Messages
93
Likes
50
#54
The great teams always had 2 top class strikers.. If you are winning (trophies) players won't care if they are rotating.

Bobby can always drop deeper as a no.10.
Werner can always play outwide.
We can always go for 442 (especially against those park the bus teams).

Would be a fantastic signing.
I think 4-4-2 is out of the question with the football we are playing under Klopp. 4-2-4 might be not, but that involves Salah upfront and Firminho close to him. Werner cannot do either what Salah does with his movement with the ball or what Firminho does with his movement off the ball and playing one-touch passes that bring Salah or Mane in a goal-scoring position. Playing him out wide, when you have Salah, Mane, and possible another player (Lemar?), is not so clever as well..

Werner can provide other things, like clinical finishing and striker's moves in the box that Firminho does not have.
 

redfanman

TIA Regular
Joined
Apr 29, 2008
Messages
11,305
Likes
10,805
#55
Highly doubt this is true for 3 reasons:

- He is staying at Leipzig next season
- Klopp can make a lot of changes, but two players won't leave their positions for sure: Salah and Firmino.
- We need to upgrade (I'm talking about starters here) other positions that are far more important than a new striker/second striker/winger and our money is limited in that sense.

Adding a second striker when we have Salah is not smart move. Making Firmino 10 is not a smart move because it would mean less space for Salah to run with another striker and the Salah (poacher) - Firmino (space creator) connection would become more less strong.

I really, really don't think we will see another striker next season. Maybe a backup winger, but not a striker. Werner will be worth like £50m, you can't waste this kind of money on a rotation player.

I think we will spend money on at least 2 new MF + a CB and I'm talking about £30~50m+ a player.

Werner has potential, but we already have Firmino and Salah. If we are going to use Werner as a winger, we should just buy a proper winger/AM like Forsberg.
not disagreeing with you, but i recall many of these arguments were made about Salah last summer
 



Koon

Very bad englando. I'm so sorry.
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
348
Likes
460
#56
not disagreeing with you, but i recall many of these arguments were made about Salah last summer
Not by me. This is what I said about Salah:

https://forums.thisisanfield.com/threads/mohamed-salah-welcome-to-liverpool.25136/post-767740

Now we have a pacey team, finally. We lacked pace last season without Mané.

It looks like we are playing much like City: 4-1-4-1 with two creative midfielders (Hendo as DM and Coutinho + Keita/New buy able to defend and bring balance, but really good creating chances), two speedsters in the wings and a Striker (Firmino) not that fast but able to create space for the team. Attack 4-3-3 and defend 4-1-4-1. Amazing counter-attack.

This season we will be much improved.

PLEASE, don't get me wrong when I say this, but Salah went the Cristiano Ronaldo route. United's Ronaldo was able do dribble like hell, lots of tricks and whatever, but he was not that direct. His end product was pretty good, but it could be better. Then he decided to change his playstyle. No more dribble, only direct football with speed and power. The result was almost no tricks or dribbles, but many goals and assists.

Salah from 2/3 years ago was not the best when it comes to end product, but right now it's just full speed, direct football, assists and goals. He has no time to waste doing another stuff and that's why Klopp went for him. That's my guess.

That's why I prefer Salah over Gelson Martins, for example. Too much dribble, too much skill but the end product is not there. When we think about Klopp's way, it's dead simple thinking about Salah, the perfect fit.

And one more guess: Mané might be going to LW, where he did play for Salzburg.
This time, though, we don't need another striker because the best thing about this team is the Salah/Firmino partnership and even Mané when he's having a good game.

I don't know, it looks like people are trying to solve a problem that don't exist. We really don't need a striker, maybe a backup winger, but not a £50m striker.
 

ILLOK

In the Danger Zone.
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
14,741
Likes
25,672
#57
I really, really don't think we will see another striker next season. Maybe a backup winger, but not a striker. Werner will be worth like £50m, you can't waste this kind of money on a rotation player.
Arsenal, Chelsea and City have all got players who cost similar amounts sitting on their bench.

We need attacking options. We currently have 3 top class ones, adding another could hardly be described as waste of money. Werner's supposed versatility (I don't think he'd be there just to give Firmino a rest as you seem to be implying) is just the icing on the cake.
 

Koon

Very bad englando. I'm so sorry.
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
348
Likes
460
#58
Arsenal, Chelsea and City have all got players who cost similar amounts sitting on their bench.

We need attacking options. We currently have 3 top class ones, adding another could hardly be described as waste of money. Werner's supposed versatility (I don't think he'd be there just to give Firmino a rest as you seem to be implying) is just the icing on the cake.
Arsenal - Lacazette flop + bad manager.
Chelsea - Suggar daddy and I don't even think they have that good squad, actually. They have a good XI, though.
City - Suggar daddy and they have spent A LOT of money (almost £500m since Guardiola), so we shouldn't compare.

Also, there's a huge difference between their first eleven and ours (except Arsenal). We have needs in our midfield and defence, but if you look at Chelsea and City, they have no needs. We need one or two more midfielders and we need a better CB. This should be our priority and it cost a lot of money we don't have in case we also go for a £50m striker.

We are behind Chelesa and City because while they don't have first team player needs, we do. They are able to look for huge backup players because they are on a different level and they have money. While they have Kante, Fàbregas, Gundogan, KDB, Fernandinho, we have Henderson, Gini, Can and Milner. But when you think about our front three, there's no team in PL that's better.

What's the most important thing next season: having a better defense and MF or a better attack? Keep in mind that someone like Werner would cost like £50m+.

I simply can't understand the concept of having a £50m rotation striker (Firmino is always fit) and then having Gini/Henderson/Milner/Lovren/Matip as our starters next season.

I can agree that we need another backup striker, but the most important thing right now is to have a better XI. It would be much wiser to buy another CM (also able to play as winger/AMC), another DM and another CB. If we are bringing another striker, I'm almost sure it will be a £20~25m player, someone young and able to become a star in the future and someone that wouldn't mind being a backup player (I doubt Werner or any big star wouldn't mind being a backup player).

Also, about Werner, he is a striker, that's his main position. He is not a left winger imo, people seem to be confused because he generally plays as a left second striker in 4-2-2-2, but that's different from a left winger. For example, Forsberg would be a much better buy. Creative, a good passer and able to play as LW or AMC. He is a fully upgraded Lallana and could also be a starter for our team. It's smart business, imo.

PS: I'm sorry, very poor english dude here.
 

ILLOK

In the Danger Zone.
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
14,741
Likes
25,672
#59
We have needs in our midfield and defence, but if you look at Chelsea and City, they have no needs. We need one or two more midfielders and we need a better CB. This should be our priority and it cost a lot of money we don't have in case we also go for a £50m striker.

We are behind Chelesa and City because while they don't have first team player needs, we do.


Also, about Werner, he is a striker, that's his main position. He is not a left winger imo, people seem to be confused because he generally plays as a left second striker in 4-2-2-2, but that's different from a left winger.
Just to pick up on a few things.

We are 7 points ahead of Chelsea (1 more game played).

Nobody is suggesting he plays as a typical winger, but could he do a similar role on the left that Salah has on the right? I don't think that is beyond possibility.

Also, nobody is suggesting Werner has to be our only signing.
 
Last edited:

Semmy

tho your dreams be tossed and blown
Joined
Sep 2, 2013
Messages
7,773
Likes
4,667
#60
Yes. Yes we are.

It’s a shame because I liked him and thought he had potential but he has been extremely poor for Wolfsburg, which should have been the ideal situation for him.
I know this is the wrong thread, but I feel like Origi will follow the path of Luis Alberto and Suso. Will kick on somewhere else and have a decently successful career once he settles in somewhere.

Origi only got one season at Anfield and was going well until that cnut Funes Mori near broke his ankle. hasn't been the same player since