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Timo Werner (CF) RB Leipzig

What will Werner be leaning on?

  • The Wall of Champions, pointing at the newly installed 6

    Votes: 7 11.9%
  • Nabil Fekir's knee

    Votes: 5 8.5%
  • A bog standard table, with a bog standard pen, and a sheet of random paper

    Votes: 4 6.8%
  • The Champions League trophy for some weird reason

    Votes: 3 5.1%
  • Sadio's jockstrap

    Votes: 2 3.4%
  • The railing at Melwood

    Votes: 1 1.7%
  • Ralf Rangnick's animosity

    Votes: 1 1.7%
  • A giant can of Red Bull, cos he's not coming

    Votes: 32 54.2%
  • "Brazilian shit from beaches"

    Votes: 4 6.8%

  • Total voters
    59

Nur der BvB09

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Some might know that i have a soft spot for VfB Stuttgart and that means I am watching Timo Werner for 6 years now.

He is all about his speed. Finally improved his finishing this season. That’s all. Think he almost reached his full potential already. Maybe he will get better if he plays with better team mates. Can’t see him score 15 goals in England tbh.

Would also label him 'soft' and mentally weak.

Wonder what other German posters think @Nur der BvB09 @Neukolln @Werder4life @Eintrachtfan and the others.
[QUOTE
I can only agree on what you thing about him and honestly the most people forget what fucking intensity our Reds puts week in and week out. I don’t think T. Werner can cope with it. But if his mentality is right who knows. Klopp have this Special Habit to make ordinary players world beaters.
Bundesliga since Klopp left it has become the old shit one with intensity going down btw
 

Neukolln

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Some might know that i have a soft spot for VfB Stuttgart and that means I am watching Timo Werner for 6 years now.

He is all about his speed. Finally improved his finishing this season. That’s all. Think he almost reached his full potential already. Maybe he will get better if he plays with better team mates. Can’t see him score 15 goals in England tbh.

Would also label him 'soft' and mentally weak.

Wonder what other German posters think @Nur der BvB09 @Neukolln @Werder4life @Eintrachtfan and the others.
@GermanRed took the words right out of my mouth. 100% lockstep with his post above. Anyone that looks through my posting history, I've remained consistent on Werner. JMO, but I don't think he is mentally wired the right way to properly succeed in England. Not just at Liverpool where the level of intensity is off the charts not just in matches but in training, but any of the Big 6 clubs. I've always considered him mentally soft and he's never exhibited proper fight when situations get tough, so I do wonder how he could be counted on in rough times. All that said, if the club sign him then JK believes Timo can bring something to the team and he will be properly satisfied by what feedback Werner has given him about fighting for his minutes. If I were a betting man, I doubt Timo Werner will be a Red. Pound for pound of what his fee will surely be I don't think he's great value.
 

Richard88

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Dec 7, 2017
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516
What's the basis for the claims that Werner is mentally soft?

Seems to me that it's just a label that stuck after he got subbed off away to Besiktas because of the deafening noise level... Or is there more to it than that?
 

Neukolln

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What's the basis for the claims that Werner is mentally soft?

Seems to me that it's just a label that stuck after he got subbed off away to Besiktas because of the deafening noise level... Or is there more to it than that?
You have to follow Bundesliga. He is easily intimidated and he likes being stroked. By all accounts he isn't a very hard worker. Just "showing up" is his usual. It's hard to quantify I suppose if you don't follow German football regularly. He is not a mentality giant, by any means. I think Liverpool is probably the worst fit for him in England. Again I say this...if he does find himself in a Liverpool shirt then all of our assessment doesn't mean much. Jürgen is the only opinion that matters. :)
 

Neukolln

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For all anyone knows he had an ear infection that day. Just curious if there was anything else more objective. In any case, @Neukolln satisfied my curiosity. Thanks for the replies.
Truthfully speaking, I don't enjoy saying negative things about young Timo. And that is not my intent. I think, when looking at his skills in a vacuum, he is a good footballer. He has speed to burn and is always on the move. His speed is his greatest asset. His shot accuracy is getting better. But to be a complete forward, there is more context. It's not just about running fast and firing the ball at goal. He is not yet a complete forward, he has miles of development to go. Down the years, RB have experimented with him in different positions. Hassenhüttl put him on the wings with some success. He is an out and out striker though. Again, just my humble opinion, but I don't think our club is a great fit for him at this point in his career. He is also being linked with Chelsea and I don't know if that's much better. Frank didn't just hand Pulisic playing time, he made him work for it.
 
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gr_sounder

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2,559
I am not ready to write anyone off for being "soft" based on a single or possibly even a couple instances in their past.
Plenty of players have had situations like that. If anyone has read about that incident back on Sept 27 2017, Werner was having serious issues including circulatory issues and dizzyness (according to reports after the match). These were likely NOT caused by the noise, but most likely related to something that was happening to him at the time and were exacerbated by the noise.
Hassenhutl seemed to suggest that Timo was weak in his post-game comments, which is likely the source of the situation.
If he was dizzy and having circulatory issues, that does not mean he is weak. It means his body was not doing well that night for whatever reason.

What I do know is that in 111 matches in the Bundesliga since he turned 20 (his time time RasenBallsport Leipzig, he has scored 70 goals. That's a ridiculously high tally. He has blazing speed and seems to be a good all around team player in games I've seen. He's played a total of 31 games for Leipzig this season in all competitions so far, and has 27 goals and 9 assists.

One thing I know, is that we will not sign him unless a) Klopp wants him, b) Klopp thinks he can add something to the team that isn't there now, c) Werner believes he can play under Klopp's style. So if we sign him, all those boxes are ticked.... and that's good enough for me.

Personally I don't think he's going to come here, but I also don't think he's soft. Not from games I've seen.
 

Neukolln

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Personally I don't think he's going to come here, but I also don't think he's soft. Not from games I've seen.
Exactly what I was saying earlier, to each their own opinion. It’s all subjective and personal preference, I’m a massive admirer of African and Dutch footballers, and some prefer Portuguese or Spanish. The variety makes for good football conversation.

EDIT: I’m also a pretty big fan of Memphis and his game, while not many others are. :)
 
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gasband

The Singaporean Liverpool Never Managed To Sign
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You can be the best there is but still not fit into Klopp's team. Look at Hendo and Gini, their improvements and them cementing themselves as first choice, is as much as the vision of Klopp and the coaching of the coaching team as the discipline and mentality of these 2 players.

Technical skills is only one of the things Klopp looks at. Werner has to prove to Klopp he is mentally stronger than his scoring prowess.
 

roydom

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Something that several people have mentioned as a reason not to sign him, is his work rate / defensive capabilities / position count against him and cite Mane, Salah and Firmino as how it should be done. Which is fair enough. But when we signed those players they didn't arrive with the same mentality and positional responsibility they have now. They were coached to the point where we see this machine every week. But they didn't arrive like that.

So in my opinion, there's nothing to suggest there Werner (or any player) cannot be coached to bend to the will and needs of the team. It's one of Klopp's greatest strengths. If Klopp wants him then he must feel that there's something he can work with and that the player has indicated the necessary attitude that he is prepared to adapt his game for the good of the team which will also be for the good of the player.
 

redfanman

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Something that several people have mentioned as a reason not to sign him, is his work rate / defensive capabilities / position count against him and cite Mane, Salah and Firmino as how it should be done. Which is fair enough. But when we signed those players they didn't arrive with the same mentality and positional responsibility they have now.
I'm not sure that is true. Mane's stats in particular when at Southampton indicated that he worked hard defensively.
 

Richard88

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I'm not sure that is true. Mane's stats in particular when at Southampton indicated that he worked hard defensively.
I agree.

Firmino had extremely good defensive stats at Hoffenheim, including interceptions and tackles per 90 which were off the charts for a forward. He also used to be a defensive midfielder in his younger years which is part of what makes him such a unique forward, as he has defensive instincts very few forwards have.

I don't recall what the stats for Salah at Roma were, but I do clearly recall watching videos of him and being impressed by his willingness to sprint back defensively in a manner which is extremely uncommon for forwards.

As for Mané, he came through Red Bull Salzburg where he learned and excelled at gegenpressing, so he was always destined to be a success for Klopp.

That isn't to say that Werner can't be a success in our pressing side, just that there was precedence at excelling defensively for the other 3 forwards we brought in.
 

roydom

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I'm not sure that is true. Mane's stats in particular when at Southampton indicated that he worked hard defensively.
I'm not a stats guy but I would be willing to say that that aspect of his game has improved / increased since joining. Same for Firmino coming to a different league and playing in a different style than he did in Germany.

My point being that players can be coached to do different things if they have a good manager and good coaches to help, as long as the player is willing of course.

Again I'm not talking about Werner in particular but every player but with regard to Werner, I would imagine he's playing for his manager wants him and it doesn't necessarily mean he is unable to add to his game.

Look at TAA. Was a midfielder in the youth set up wasn't he? But coaching has enabled him to play right full. Carra is another who changed positions and added to his game. John Barnes after his injuries robbed him of that acceleration, he adapted his game to centre mid.
 

LFC_Jeffrey7

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Jul 10, 2017
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Salah is no where near solid defensively, he even admitted himself.

From what i've seen of Klopp he wants involvement for his forward and constant pressure. All the LFC players are very disciplined and sometime you can see Klopp screaming from the sideline to Mane or Salah when they don't track back. Klopp is very demanding but he has a proven track record and apparently he is even harder on German speaking players so if Werner comes in there is no doubt he will have to learn LFC discipline and work ethic.
 

Perth Red

Rolling with crocs in Darwin
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Messages
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Salah is no where near solid defensively, he even admitted himself.

From what i've seen of Klopp he wants involvement for his forward and constant pressure. All the LFC players are very disciplined and sometime you can see Klopp screaming from the sideline to Mane or Salah when they don't track back. Klopp is very demanding but he has a proven track record and apparently he is even harder on German speaking players so if Werner comes in there is no doubt he will have to learn LFC discipline and work ethic.
Late in the game Salah was back at right back helping out against a fast Wolves break. Another game he was the cover at left back with his pace to help out. It's not their primary function but all of the forwards, including Origi recently, have done defensive acts when needed. Fortunately they aren't often needed but they are definitely aware of all of their duties
 

liver1

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Its kind of a no brainer to get Werner if we do go for him. Should Origi leave to search for more game time, Werner could take his place.

70 Goals in 112 games and 20 in 19 this season is nothing to be sniffed at, but the clincher of course is the price. At £80-£90m some might not be convinced. But if his contract clause of £27m is true I think that would persuade all.
 

Chewbazza

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Its kind of a no brainer to get Werner if we do go for him. Should Origi leave to search for more game time, Werner could take his place.

70 Goals in 112 games and 20 in 19 this season is nothing to be sniffed at, but the clincher of course is the price. At £80-£90m some might not be convinced. But if his contract clause of £27m is true I think that would persuade all.
They say it's $55m which isn't chump change. But if he continues in the same form then it's probably a good price.
 

Zoran

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Honigstein latest on Werner possibly to Liverpool, not much, but here you go.

"I don't know. Nobody seem to try very hard last summer, because he had his mind made up to join Bayern but things will be different this time. If LFC come in, he'd certainly think about, I'm sure, but there'll be a question of where exactly he'll fit in. (as long as RF, MS and SM stay)."

Also said that nobody's been able to find out his exact release clause, but it seems to be staggered and getting smaller each window.
 

GermanRed

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At 4 in the morning BILD dropping some news that Klopp is getting real serious in signing Timo Werner and once again confirming that there is a 'cheap' release clause.

Unfortunately this is pay content and I can not see what there sources are but we might find out during the day.
 

Nikola

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At 4 in the morning BILD dropping some news that Klopp is getting real serious in signing Timo Werner and once again confirming that there is a 'cheap' release clause.

Unfortunately this is pay content and I can not see what there sources are but we might find out during the day.
It's that Falk guy who's always the first one to break news regarding Bayern, if I'm not mistaken? It seems like ages ago that he broke the news that Goretzka was joining them and I felt pretty bad over that, it's the first thing that I think of whenever I see an exclusive of his on Twitter... If true, he'd cost half of what Sancho would cost and while I'd prefer Sancho (or any speedy, tricky winger), I can see why Werner would be of interest to the club.

I still think of James Pearce's report that Brewster signed a new contract because had Klopp promised him that he wouldn't sign a new forward, specifically naming Werner back then, though. Not sure what to make of that, especially as Werner looks at home only in the striker role, where I hope Minamino will thrive.
 

Perth Red

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Not the full bottle on him, just video clips etc... but the thought of the front 3 options being Werner, Minamino, The Three Amigos, ShaqAttack and Origi... surely that's one too many, but awesome!