Timo Werner (CF) RB Leipzig

What will Werner be leaning on?

  • The Wall of Champions, pointing at the newly installed 6

    Votes: 13 17.6%
  • Nabil Fekir's knee

    Votes: 8 10.8%
  • A bog standard table, with a bog standard pen, and a sheet of random paper

    Votes: 5 6.8%
  • The Champions League trophy for some weird reason

    Votes: 3 4.1%
  • Sadio's jockstrap

    Votes: 2 2.7%
  • The railing at Melwood

    Votes: 3 4.1%
  • Ralf Rangnick's animosity

    Votes: 3 4.1%
  • A giant can of Red Bull, cos he's not coming

    Votes: 33 44.6%
  • "Brazilian shit from beaches"

    Votes: 4 5.4%

  • Total voters
    74

T.C.B

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Very fast, good movement, good finisher. Sort of similar to Salah in terms of the tendency to look for the space behind the defence from a wide starting position, rather than getting in between the lines or deep to build the play. A goalscorer who plays wide, rather than a creator. Not a player who dictates attacking moves (like for example Sancho), and not really a dribbler in tight spaces, but more of a give-and-go player.
Brilliant mate, thanks. Very fast, good movement, good finisher all sounds positive.
I know Youtube highlight videos are there but anybody can look good with the right edit.
Klopp and his backroom team will know best I'm sure.
 

redfanman

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Did you miss the Klopp quote completely? Klopp doesn't promise anyone anything. You come to the club train hard, do well in practice and when you get opportunities to play perform. If you do that he will make sure you get further opportunities. It's what Klopp described as what happened with Robertson and what Henderson described as happening with him. Klopps quote that I put in my post explains that exactly.
If you think all he says to potential signings is a two sentence sound bite then you are in for a surprise. There is no way someone as well organised as him and the recruitment team are not going to have a plan for the player and not share that with them in order to demonstrate why they should come here.

And that doesn't contradict what he said in the quote. Both go together.
 

redfanman

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Did you miss the Klopp quote completely? Klopp doesn't promise anyone anything. You come to the club train hard, do well in practice and when you get opportunities to play perform. If you do that he will make sure you get further opportunities. It's what Klopp described as what happened with Robertson and what Henderson described as happening with him. Klopps quote that I put in my post explains that exactly.
If you think all he says to potential signings is a two sentence sound bite then you are in for a surprise. There is no way someone as well organised as him and the recruitment team are not going to have a plan for the player and not share that with them in order to demonstrate why they should come here.

And that doesn't contradict what he said in the quote. Both go together.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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If you think all he says to potential signings is a two sentence sound bite then you are in for a surprise. There is no way someone as well organised as him and the recruitment team are not going to have a plan for the player and not share that with them in order to demonstrate why they should come here.

And that doesn't contradict what he said in the quote. Both go together.
Not really. Do you think he promised Keita he would be playing week in week out? If he did Keita doesn't look like he has been given false promises. Klopp believes and operates a meritocracy he can't do that whilst also giving new players assurances of playing time. All he can give assurances of are that if the work hard and perform well they will be used. He isn't going to play a lazy, half arsed player who isn't performing well over a eager, hard working player who is performing well just because he promised the first guy playing time to get him to sign. Klopp is the honest type he isn't going to say to a player "yes, you are guaranteed playing time" as its not true in a meritocracy environment. Klopp, exactly as he described in that quote, wants players to come in work hard and compete for places.
 

redfanman

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Not really. Do you think he promised Keita he would be playing week in week out?
No. I do think he talked through with Keita what his role in the squad was, how many starts in the first year he could probably expect, what they may ask him to work on initially and when the games would most likely be. Along with the carrot that if his performances justified more game time then he could get them. And, perhaps a view on expectations for year two and three.

Klopp believes and operates a meritocracy he can't do that whilst also giving new players assurances of playing time.
Why can't he?

You spend a lot of your time on these forums telling us how we have enough game time to keep four forwards happy, so why cant the man actually responsible for buying and coaching them?

All he can give assurances of are that if the work hard and perform well they will be used. He isn't going to play a lazy, half arsed player who isn't performing well over a eager, hard working player who is performing well just because he promised the first guy playing time to get him to sign.
Stop Strawmanning.

First, no-one seriously believes Klopp and Edwards are going to sign a 'lazy, half arsed player'.

Second, no-one is saying he would pick a player not putting the effort in training over someone who was.

And finally no one has said that he is saying it just to get someone to sign.

Klopp is the honest type he isn't going to say to a player "yes, you are guaranteed playing time" as its not true in a meritocracy environment. Klopp, exactly as he described in that quote, wants players to come in work hard and compete for places.
The two are not mutually exclusive.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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No. I do think he talked through with Keita what his role in the squad was, how many starts in the first year he could probably expect, what they may ask him to work on initially and when the games would most likely be. Along with the carrot that if his performances justified more game time then he could get them. And, perhaps a view on expectations for year two and three.



Why can't he?

You spend a lot of your time on these forums telling us how we have enough game time to keep four forwards happy, so why cant the man actually responsible for buying and coaching them?



Stop Strawmanning.

First, no-one seriously believes Klopp and Edwards are going to sign a 'lazy, half arsed player'.

Second, no-one is saying he would pick a player not putting the effort in training over someone who was.

And finally no one has said that he is saying it just to get someone to sign.



The two are not mutually exclusive.
I'm really confused how you can keep contradicting yourself. Klopp runs a meritocracy, players have to earn playing time it's that simple. Klopp can't give a player "how many starts in the first year he could probably expect" as if the player then, after the move, doesn't show the right work ethic, doesn't work hard enough, thinks they have made it. All he can do is tell them;

1. We have plenty of games to go around. You work hard and perform well then they will play.

2. How much they play will 100% depend on how hard they work, how well they play and how well their team mates do.

3. The role Klopp sees himself using them in, how they will play in that role and how important that role will be to the team if they make a success of it.

If the player then moves it will be 100% on them to knuckle down and make a success of it. The talk (if real, which I am fully aware it might not be) is that Werner and camp have demanded assurances of playing time. Klopp cannot give such assurances with the culture of earning your playing time that he has created at Liverpool. Its also funny that, if true, those assurances of playing time would have been asked for just before Klopp says this to the media;

"We need players who want to be part of this, who want to fight for their spot, who want to make the next step together with us, who want to develop and improve so that’s it. We have these players and whoever wants to join us, needs to have exactly this kind of attitude.
 

SithBaare

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Also if Werner does join , Can Liverpool loan brewster for a season to one of the RB clubs ?
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Also if Werner does join , Can Liverpool loan brewster for a season to one of the RB clubs ?
We could do that anyway couldn't we? But they're more likely to want to play the talented young players they own themselves I think as that seems to be a major part of their strategy. Sign young prospects, develop them into top talents getting benefit on the pitch from that before letting them move on for big fees, certainly with Salzberg that seems to be the plan.
 

SithBaare

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Just don't see a place for Brewster if Werner does join. Liverpool have Origi and Elliot as options too. Maybe Klopp reckons he needs more bench strength to compete for more trophies or to account for the AFCON
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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I think if we see our front 3 staying and Werner signing then Origi could be the one leaving.
I think Origi will want to leave too. He wanted to leave (but wanted a better club than Wolves were at the time), we ended up using him a bit more than was expected and he was 4th choice by end of season at which point he extended his deal. It's now looking likely that Shaqiri will be upgraded and that probably means a player that will end up above Origi in the pecking order leaving him and Minamino to battle it out for 5th choice. I think he will want to move on somewhere he will get more consistent playing time. Some decent level clubs would probably be really happy to own him and some of them will be able to afford his wages and a reasonable fee too.
 

Mascot88

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I think Origi will want to leave too. He wanted to leave (but wanted a better club than Wolves were at the time), we ended up using him a bit more than was expected and he was 4th choice by end of season at which point he extended his deal. It's now looking likely that Shaqiri will be upgraded and that probably means a player that will end up above Origi in the pecking order leaving him and Minamino to battle it out for 5th choice. I think he will want to move on somewhere he will get more consistent playing time. Some decent level clubs would probably be really happy to own him and some of them will be able to afford his wages and a reasonable fee too.
I’m pretty sure that if we sign Werner, then the club will listen to offers for Origi.

We’ve got loads of depth. You can make a decent second attacking tier now of Origi Minamino and Shaqiri. The idea this summer should be to get tier two closer to tier one.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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Not sure if others have seen the piece on The Athletic about Werner... sounds like he has had offers from Bayern and United but is waiting to see if we step up our interest. Apparently he got annoyed with Bayern messing him about during their efforts to sign Sane instead (which got scuppered due to his injury), and doesn't fancy United given their current issues.

If we are interested, then we're likely to initiate something in the next couple of weeks, as his availability for £51m expires in April.
 

redfanman

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Not sure if others have seen the piece on The Athletic about Werner... sounds like he has had offers from Bayern and United but is waiting to see if we step up our interest. Apparently he got annoyed with Bayern messing him about during their efforts to sign Sane instead (which got scuppered due to his injury), and doesn't fancy United given their current issues.

If we are interested, then we're likely to initiate something in the next couple of weeks, as his availability for £51m expires in April.
Isnt it Barca, not Bayern?

 

redfanman

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I'm really confused how you can keep contradicting yourself.
Perhaps because you are deliberately not trying to understand as I'm not contradicting myself at all.

Klopp runs a meritocracy, players have to earn playing time it's that simple. Klopp can't give a player "how many starts in the first year he could probably expect" as if the player then, after the move, doesn't show the right work ethic, doesn't work hard enough, thinks they have made it. All he can do is tell them;
Of course he can. If they dont do their part, he is free to not pick them for those games. He isnt committing anything in stone that they play those games come what may. He will make it clear what he wants from them. It's a guide to give the player an understanding of how he fits within the squad, why and what his journey will look like while at the club.

"We need players who want to be part of this, who want to fight for their spot, who want to make the next step together with us, who want to develop and improve so that’s it. We have these players and whoever wants to join us, needs to have exactly this kind of attitude.
Which again isnt contradictory. If i offer to give you £10 for every customer you see today, and you choose to see none of them, you are not getting £10 are you?
 

Limiescouse

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I'm really confused how you can keep contradicting yourself. Klopp runs a meritocracy, players have to earn playing time it's that simple. Klopp can't give a player "how many starts in the first year he could probably expect" as if the player then, after the move, doesn't show the right work ethic, doesn't work hard enough, thinks they have made it.
It is not a contradiction. Stating an expectation is not a guarantee. The player can end up playing less or more depending on how he performs relative to those expectations.

You are are also putting a hell of a lot of stock in comments (he asked for guarantees) that are almost certainly not true.
 

Noo Noo

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Very fast, good movement, good finisher. Sort of similar to Salah in terms of the tendency to look for the space behind the defence from a wide starting position, rather than getting in between the lines or deep to build the play. A goalscorer who plays wide, rather than a creator. Not a player who dictates attacking moves (like for example Sancho), and not really a dribbler in tight spaces, but more of a give-and-go player.
Gives me the impression that would work very well with Firmino in particular
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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@Limiescouse did you miss me saying; "The talk (if real, which I am fully aware it might not be) is that Werner and camp have demanded assurances of playing time."?

And to you and @redfanman I think you're both arguing something from the wrong angle. I'm saying Klopp will not give any signings assurances only an indication that there are plenty of games and that players who work hard and play well will then get games. You are both then arguing I'm wrong because Klopp can give expectations and it's up to the player to then perform well enough to see those expectations met. Expectations are not assurances. They aren't guaranteed. If the players camp is demanding assurances of guaranteed playing time you are both describing the situation at Liverpool that I am just with different words. It doesn't match the alleged demands. Which is my point.
 

Kopstar

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This can just be boiled down to:

Klopp is going to play the team he thinks is most likely to win whilst also taking into consideration the effects of fatigue. In that deliberation nobody is guaranteed anything. That is the extent of the assurance he gives - he doesn't play favourites, if you're part of the XI he thinks has the best chance of winning a game of football then you play.

Players are rarely going to say/accept that the reason they didn't get picked consistently under Klopp (or anyone) is because they either didn't work hard enough, didn't follow Klopp's instructions or weren't good enough. They (or rather their agents) will far more likely blame vague "broken promises" or a failure to honour "assurances" about game time, inviting you to take it for granted that they a) worked hard enough, b) followed Klopp's instructions, and c) should have been in the best XI.

Bullshit but you can't expect players/agents to generally frame those circumstances (not playing) in any other way.
 

Limiescouse

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@Limiescouse did you miss me saying; "The talk (if real, which I am fully aware it might not be) is that Werner and camp have demanded assurances of playing time."?

And to you and @redfanman I think you're both arguing something from the wrong angle. I'm saying Klopp will not give any signings assurances only an indication that there are plenty of games and that players who work hard and play well will then get games. You are both then arguing I'm wrong because Klopp can give expectations and it's up to the player to then perform well enough to see those expectations met. Expectations are not assurances. They aren't guaranteed. If the players camp is demanding assurances of guaranteed playing time you are both describing the situation at Liverpool that I am just with different words. It doesn't match the alleged demands. Which is my point.
You indeed have acknowledged he might not have said it. However, you have then written war and peace length monologues about why it wont work for a player to have that attitude.

NOTE:
Apologies about the bold type. For some reason my browser wont allow me to change it to regular font.