Timo Werner (CF) RB Leipzig

What will Werner be leaning on?

  • The Wall of Champions, pointing at the newly installed 6

    Votes: 14 17.1%
  • Nabil Fekir's knee

    Votes: 10 12.2%
  • A bog standard table, with a bog standard pen, and a sheet of random paper

    Votes: 7 8.5%
  • The Champions League trophy for some weird reason

    Votes: 3 3.7%
  • Sadio's jockstrap

    Votes: 3 3.7%
  • The railing at Melwood

    Votes: 3 3.7%
  • Ralf Rangnick's animosity

    Votes: 3 3.7%
  • A giant can of Red Bull, cos he's not coming

    Votes: 35 42.7%
  • "Brazilian shit from beaches"

    Votes: 4 4.9%

  • Total voters
    82

KillerBeeLFC

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If this is to me my concerns are not what you've portrayed in here. My concerns are over his playing style, some think he has the right type of playing style some don't. It has always come across as a circumstantial deal as he is a player who ticks all/some (that's one debate) of the boxes of what we want whilst being available at below market value because of his clause. Clauses aren't as convenient financially as many seem to believe, its much better for a club to have performance clauses and payment structures in place in a deal than a straight up release clause which usually needs meeting in full and up front. With the market in an unknown state he may no longer be priced at below market value, a player of his calibre may be £30/40m now and players who were much more expensive than the clause may be available in the same price ballpark. But there may be flexibility built into those purchases when there isn't with his. We could actually be doing a financially harmful deal to get him now at above market value. If he is a perfect fit then I'd actually be OK with that, I think Alisson and Van Dijk (at the time) both fit into that category and I was behind both purchases at those prices because they were perfect fits and they've ended up being worth every penny. But its unclear from what I've seen, read and others have said whether he actually is a good fit let alone the perfect fit. We'll have to wait and see.
Its not directed at anyone mate, just seems theres a lot of mehhness for a good young player with a high ceiling and I believe this is because people have the notion that we are getting mbappe in their head, which id love to happen too btw. You think klopp would have someone around he didnt think could cut it or would be a waste of money? They know what theyre doing and if they get werner it wont be because theyre getting him on the cheap.
What have to seen to make you think werner wont be able to get a game here? Looks like he could play left forward and up front in a different way to bobby from what Ive seen
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Its not directed at anyone mate, just seems theres a lot of mehhness for a good young player with a high ceiling and I believe this is because people have the notion that we are getting mbappe in their head, which id love to happen too btw. You think klopp would have someone around he didnt think could cut it or would be a waste of money? They know what theyre doing and if they get werner it wont be because theyre getting him on the cheap.
What have to seen to make you think werner wont be able to get a game here? Looks like he could play left forward and up front in a different way to bobby from what Ive seen
From what I've seen he'd be an upgrade on Origi. Just about playing style, that's where my concerns rest. If it is just one in one out with Origi leaving and Werner coming in to do a better job in the same role it'll achieve something in way of improvement just not one I think will have a major benefit, its not that Origi is awful just kinda not that well suited. But if Werner can play in the same way as Salah and Mane as well as being better than Origi than that's a massive improvement that will have a major benefit for us. If he is the first and was available at a bargain price it made some sense but if its no longer a bargain price it doesn't. If its the second it doesn't matter if it is still a bargain price or not its still a good deal to go ahead with. That make sense?
 

GermanRed

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Think he could outscore Sadio and especially Bobby rightaway if he gets a run of games early on. Maybe that’s what people are 'afraid' of.

Personally, I’m still not ready to like Timo Werner again:sick:
 

KillerBeeLFC

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From what I've seen he'd be an upgrade on Origi. Just about playing style, that's where my concerns rest. If it is just one in one out with Origi leaving and Werner coming in to do a better job in the same role it'll achieve something in way of improvement just not one I think will have a major benefit, its not that Origi is awful just kinda not that well suited. But if Werner can play in the same way as Salah and Mane as well as being better than Origi than that's a massive improvement that will have a major benefit for us. If he is the first and was available at a bargain price it made some sense but if its no longer a bargain price it doesn't. If its the second it doesn't matter if it is still a bargain price or not its still a good deal to go ahead with. That make sense?
If Mbappe didnt exist and we were in for a young, German international, whos been banging in about 20 goals a season since he was 18 in the Bundesliga, I dont think there'd be half as much debate on whether we should go for him. I think he could play across the whole front line left to right, obviously a different threat than bobby in the middle. Hes not some donkey, hes a class young player with room for improvement. Physically fit, strong and fast. Can play in a few different positions and knows where the goal is wherever he plays. Just looks a really good fit.

If he is the first and was available at a bargain price it made some sense but if its no longer a bargain price it doesn't. If its the second it doesn't matter if it is still a bargain price or not its still a good deal to go ahead with. That make sense?
I understand what you mean but i dont think the club would of seen 40 million plus as "a bargain price" and maybe does a disservice to our recruitment team and klopp to think they would. 40 million is a lot of money to them still, its not monopoly money and weve become very shrewed in the market.

What makes you think mbappe would fit in here? Hed do well anywhere for sure but I dont see the intense work ethic that our players have in his game.
 

ILLOK

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Mbappe has nothing to do with anyone's opinion on Werner.

I don't think anyone has said Werner is a donkey, there are just some reservations about how applicable his game is to different situations. Nothing wrong with discussing that is there?

Werner probably gets more discussion than others because quite a few are trying to insist he is world class already, which is a bit mystifying if you actually watch Leipzig a bit.
 
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KillerBeeLFC

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Mbappe has nothing to do with anyone's opinion on Werner.
Pretty much every page on this thread has mbappes name in so I do think it has a bit to do with it.

I don't think anyone has said Werner is a donkey, there are just some reservations about how applicable his game is to different situations. Nothing wrong with discussing that is there?
Point of saying hes not a donkey is the things ive seen on here about him are what people would say of a championship player. Like the "german darren" bent comparison. Hes a young, driven athlete who Im sure has had to learn and adapt in the past. He hasnt even played one position all his time in leipzig, Im sure he can adapt if klopp and the team think he can.

Werner probably gets more discussion than others because quite a few are trying to insist he is world class already, which is a bit mystifying if you actually watch Leipzig a bit.
Ive seen more negative comments on here about him than people claiming hes world class thats for sure
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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If Mbappe didnt exist and we were in for a young, German international, whos been banging in about 20 goals a season since he was 18 in the Bundesliga, I dont think there'd be half as much debate on whether we should go for him. I think he could play across the whole front line left to right, obviously a different threat than bobby in the middle. Hes not some donkey, hes a class young player with room for improvement. Physically fit, strong and fast. Can play in a few different positions and knows where the goal is wherever he plays. Just looks a really good fit.



I understand what you mean but i dont think the club would of seen 40 million plus as "a bargain price" and maybe does a disservice to our recruitment team and klopp to think they would. 40 million is a lot of money to them still, its not monopoly money and weve become very shrewed in the market.

What makes you think mbappe would fit in here? Hed do well anywhere for sure but I dont see the intense work ethic that our players have in his game.
For the record I don't think we need a Haaland or a Harry Kane or a number ten/attacking mid or anything of that nature. I'm quite limited on what I think this team needs and its one player, as good as possible, that can play in a similar way to Salah and Mane. Starting provisionally as one of our "wide" forwards but in reality the two positions that carry the majority of our goal threat. Players who can attack fast and devaste opposition back lines that have been pulled out of shape by Firmino. It may be an oversimplification of our main tactics but its an essential part of our play in my opinion. It requires two players to effectively do it but we only have two senior players who really can do it. We try with Origi a lot (and maybe Minamino can do it I'm just not convinced yet, he seems a much better fit for the Firmino role) but Origi just can't really do it. He kind of half does it, in a very direct way and last season got some great goal rates by making sure he was in the right place to take advantage of some crazy luck. So if Werner is more like Origi, just better, its a no from me even if it does improve our squad. If he's a better player than Origi who can (as some say and some others disagree with) play in a similar way to Salah and Mane then that's great. He's the right age, got a great record, clearly wants to come to us and pre-corona was reasonably priced. Even if the market takes a hit and he's no longer reasonably priced if he is a perfect fit I'd still want him. I want a perfect fit is all and I'm reading and seeing contrasts on whether or not he's what I want us to recruit. Sancho and Mbappe are safer for me as I know they can play the right way and they are definitely of the right quality. I've seen some interesting accounts on Havertz that make it sound like he is a bit more of an intriguing option than I originally thought too. But failing a heavy hitter I'd prefer a journeyman (like Promes who, despite his limitations, seems to be able to play the right way, or a try before you buy loan on Dembele to see if Klopp can sort his attitude/behaviour) than spend big on upgrading a role that isn't even that important for 85/90% of our games. Most(all?) of the time we don't really use Origi when a fit, in form, trio of Salah, Firmino and Mane just aren't the right tool for the job. We end up having to use Origi because one or more of them aren't fit and in form. So let's make sure we have a more appropriate tool to use when that happens instead of having to tweak things when tweaking things isn't actually the best tactical choice. Salah backed up by Origi or Brewster are fine to have when we do need to tweak things (very rarely) and play with more of a CF set up than a false 9 one. That's how I see it anyway.
 

ILLOK

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Pretty much every page on this thread has mbappes name in so I do think it has a bit to do with it.



Point of saying hes not a donkey is the things ive seen on here about him are what people would say of a championship player. Like the "german darren" bent comparison. Hes a young, driven athlete who Im sure has had to learn and adapt in the past. He hasnt even played one position all his time in leipzig, Im sure he can adapt if klopp and the team think he can.



Ive seen more negative comments on here about him than people claiming hes world class thats for sure
Nobody has said he is a Championship level player, and neither was Darren Bent anyway. I think Vardy is a closer comparison personally.

As for the various positions he's played, has he actually done much from other positions than at centre forward? From what I can see he has scored the vast majority of his goals for Leipzig over the years as a centre forward, and more specifically when played in a partnership with Yussef Poulsen.

Werner would cost a fair chunk of money. There are some question marks about his game. Would he be worth the money or are his numbers a little misleading? That's what is being discussed. I don't think anybody really believes he is destined to be a failure or that he is a bad player. I can more than see the appeal of him, despite the criticisms he is extremely quick and a good finisher, which goes an awful long way on its own.

Another thing I'll add in his favour is the absence of any injuries. He literally hasn't had a single injury of any real significance in his professional career.
 
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KillerBeeLFC

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I'm quite limited on what I think this team needs and its one player, as good as possible, that can play in a similar way to Salah and Mane. Starting provisionally as one of our "wide" forwards but in reality the two positions that carry the majority of our goal threat. Players who can attack fast and devaste opposition back lines that have been pulled out of shape by Firmino.
I think werner would be a pretty good fit there an thats exactly how i envisage him playing on the wing, plus has the goal threat you mention too.

If he's a better player than Origi who can (as some say and some others disagree with) play in a similar way to Salah and Mane then that's great. He's the right age, got a great record, clearly wants to come to us and pre-corona was reasonably priced.
Hes a better fit than Origi that is for certain. I love Origi but hes not suited to us and will never be a top top player.

I want a perfect fit is all
Your not going to get that whichever player comes in to this team

Sancho and Mbappe are safer for me as I know they can play the right way and they are definitely of the right quality.
How do you know for sure though? Mbappes playing in a mickey mouse league with a billion quid squad around him. Him an Neymar had the league game off the match before we smashed them and they still won 4 nil or something. They still havent managed to do anything of note in the champions league have they? What do we do if we get him and he hasnt got the work ethic? Let him be a superstar an the rest of the team pick up the slack? These 100 million plus transfers can deffo go wrong in a big way so cant really call them safe.

or a try before you buy loan on Dembele to see if Klopp can sort his attitude/behaviour) than spend big on upgrading a role that isn't even that important for 85/90% of our games.
Why though? Why would we be arsed to loan a player off barca to help with their wage bill and there is doubts about? And why would we pay the silly amount theyd expect to buy him when other players like werner are around who dont have the enigma around them?

So let's make sure we have a more appropriate tool
Werner seems like that tool tbh for the reasons I mentioned earlier

Salah backed up by Origi or Brewster are fine to have when we do need to tweak things (very rarely) and play with more of a CF set up than a false 9 one. That's how I see it anyway.
Salah backed up by origi and brewster are fine? Id prefer werner backing up the front 3 thats for sure
 

KillerBeeLFC

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Nobody has said he is a Championship level player, and neither was Darren Bent anyway. I think Vardy is a closer comparison personally.

As for the various positions he's played, has he actually done much from other positions than at centre forward? From what I can see he has scored the vast majority of his goals for Leipzig over the years as a centre forward, and more specifically when played in a partnership with Yussef Poulsen.

Werner would cost a fair chunk of money. There are some question marks about his game. Would he be worth the money or are his numbers a little misleading? That's what is being discussed. I don't think anybody really believes he is destined to be a failure or that he is a bad player. I can more than see the appeal of him, despite the criticisms he is extremely quick and a good finisher, which goes an awful long way on its own.

Another thing I'll add in his favour is the absence of any injuries. He literally hasn't had a single injury of any real significance in his professional career.
Darren bent was never anywhere near as good as Werner. A German Vardy wouldnt be bad but Werner has more technical ability than Vardy for sure.
Everything about him screams good fit to me but we'll just have to see what klopp and his team thinks. We wont be doing it for a cheap punt if he does come
 

ILLOK

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Darren bent was never anywhere near as good as Werner. A German Vardy wouldnt be bad but Werner has more technical ability than Vardy for sure.
Everything about him screams good fit to me but we'll just have to see what klopp and his team thinks. We wont be doing it for a cheap punt if he does come
Not so sure about that myself, Vardy has a good touch and scores 'better' goals than Werner. Werner is not an especially gifted player technically imo.
 

KillerBeeLFC

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I do get what youre saying btw @Anfield rd Dreamer about wanting the best we can get. I'd absolutely instantly cream my knickers if we got Mbappe but there are other players around who can help us achieve great things. Im only mentioning mbappe because i think hes the only player in the world worth 100 million plus. I would be surprised if we bought sancho for 100 million plus as I dont think hed make a big an impact on the team as the price tag would merit.

Not so sure about that myself, Vardy has a good touch and scores 'better' goals than Werner. Werner is not an especially gifted player technically imo.
Hes deffo more technically gifted than Vardy and has scored class goals too. I think Vardys a good player btw, weve seen how devastating he is first hand ha. Vardy has 10 years on werner though so we should compare goals when werners at the end of his career.
I just cant understand the argument that werner wont be able or good enough to fit in. He has the raw ingredients to be one of our players. He has pace, power and can score goals. Hes played a lot on the wings and as a striker so he can cover the whole front line.
 

KillerBeeLFC

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This one match shows he has what it takes to cover our front 3. Goals and assists from wide like our wingers play an a first touch through ball at around 50 secs in that bobby would be proud of. I think he'll shock a few people if he comes here how good he can be
 

ILLOK

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I just cant understand the argument that werner wont be able or good enough to fit in. He has the raw ingredients to be one of our players. He has pace, power and can score goals. Hes played a lot on the wings and as a striker so he can cover the whole front line.
That's not the argument. I'm not sure (m)any are saying for definite that he won't be good enough or able to fit it, just that there are some questions.

And statements like your two there about Vardy and Werner being able to cover the whole front line are not factual. Yes, he has played on the wings, but how well?

He has actually played in a very specific way so far for Leipzig. He plays as a centre forward with a target man next to him and he runs the channels and in behind the opposition. That is not at all the same as playing in the positions than Mane and Salah occupy.

Just because Werner is fast and scores goals does not mean he will seamlessly fit into those wide positions. He might, but it is far from certain. I definitely wouldn't have wanted Sturridge, Torres or Owen coming in from the wings.
 

KillerBeeLFC

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That's not the argument. I'm not sure (m)any are saying for definite that he won't be good enough or able to fit it, just that there are some questions.

And statements like your two there about Vardy and Werner being able to cover the whole front line are not factual. Yes, he has played on the wings, but how well?

He has actually played in a very specific way so far for Leipzig. He plays as a centre forward with a target man next to him and he runs the channels and in behind the opposition. That is not at all the same as playing in the positions than Mane and Salah occupy.

Just because Werner is fast and scores goals does not mean he will seamlessly fit into those wide positions. He might, but it is far from certain. I definitely wouldn't have wanted Sturridge, Torres or Owen coming in from the wings.
I never said vardy could cover the whole front line I said that werner could . Werner does play games on the wings mate, hes not a striker like those 3 you mentioned.
This article illustrates how his manager for the past 4 years and himself see his best position. He deffo isnt just a central man https://www.bundesliga.com/en/bunde...sition-for-rb-leipzig-julian-nagelsmann-10343
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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I never said vardy could cover the whole front line I said that werner could . Werner does play games on the wings mate, hes not a striker like those 3 you mentioned.
This article illustrates how his manager for the past 4 years and himself see his best position. He deffo isnt just a central man https://www.bundesliga.com/en/bunde...sition-for-rb-leipzig-julian-nagelsmann-10343
Makes him sound somewhat of a versatile supporting striker. Someone you can get joy out of using out wide but mostly playing off or along side a CF partner. Just purely from reading that article I'd be expecting someone who is somewhere between Craig Bellamy and Luis Suarez (when he was arriving from Ajax). I may be seeing too much in it but for me Klopp took wingers in Mane and Salah who could score, made them better at scoring, pushed them higher up the pitch than they traditionally played previously and created monsters. They weren't strikers or forwards or anything. Not to me anyway. It feels like to turn someone like Werner into that kind of player instead of pushing and building him up you'd be putting the dampeners on him and holding him back, further away from goal and what he does best. What got him to the dance. Maybe none of this matters and Klopp is going to be going 4231 again or even some form of 442 (our 433 with a false 9 isn't a million miles away from 442 diamond already) and Werner will fit much better in some roles that Klopp has planned. Just I don't know any of that I just have my interpretation of what has brought us to this stage and what I'd like to see us continue/progress to carry on dominating.
 

KillerBeeLFC

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I dont think we'll need to change tactics with werner much once hes up and running. I doubt we plan on playing 2 up top anyway. Maybe he'll be up with bobby in some games if were dominating or need to win but I dont think a tactical revamp will be needed. The movements off the ball he makes and the partnership he has with Poulsen when hes wider even reminds me of the way bobby links with our wide men.
Hope ive at least eased the concern that were going after him just because hes "cheap" a little bit anyway. Hes a good player, we should be excited by this guy
 

costared

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For my two pennyworth, we cannot rely on Mane and Salah doing the same things every game and being as effective as they have been. We need a player who can cover their roles and give us a bit of variation. Some one on here said we do not need anyone, if we stand still we will still win the league again. In my experience if you think you can stand still you will slide backwards. Other teams are going to improve so we must look to improve to maintain our superiority. IMO Werner gives us cover for Mane and Salah and adds another dimension for the opposition to worry about. If we ant to play with 3 strikers we need at least 4 to choose from.
Incidentally I think Mbappe and Sancho are out of the question as they are not VFM.
 

soberphobia

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Not so sure about that myself, Vardy has a good touch and scores 'better' goals than Werner. Werner is not an especially gifted player technically imo.
Hmnn Werner has been banging in big numbers for years in the Bundesliga and is 24 I think. Vardy was playing for Halifax town at the same age so it is a bit of a ridiculous comparison.

I think your querying his suitability for the wide forward role is fair as that has not been his primary role thus far. He has played off of a primary striker

Klopp has a history of buying good players and making them better. That is a hallmark of all great managers.

I like Werner and think he would be a good add but I have been wrong before so I don’t think it’s a sure thing. He has lots of plus points though.
 

ILLOK

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I never said vardy could cover the whole front line I said that werner could . Werner does play games on the wings mate, hes not a striker like those 3 you mentioned.
This article illustrates how his manager for the past 4 years and himself see his best position. He deffo isnt just a central man https://www.bundesliga.com/en/bunde...sition-for-rb-leipzig-julian-nagelsmann-10343
That article backs up my point if anything. The arguments that point to him playing in other positions are weak.

@soberphobia the comparison is of their play style and current ability. Vardy is one of the better strikers in the premier league, I don't see what is ridiculous. What he was doing at 24 isn't relevant.
 

Kopstar

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Not so sure about that myself, Vardy has a good touch and scores 'better' goals than Werner. Werner is not an especially gifted player technically imo.
That summer that we lost Sterling and Gerrard retired (2015), we signed Firmino and I thought that Vardy would have been a good option in addition based on watching him in some pre-season games that year (I hadn't really noticed him in the previous season). He reminded me of Suarez and then went on to have his real break-out season.
 

Zoran

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Pearce on Werner:

"As I've reported previously, LFC very keen on Werner and he's made no secret of his admiration for Klopp. However, all transfer activity currently on hold due to COVID-19. Too much uncertainty at the moment for any big decisions to be made. In the balance."
 

ILLOK

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Werner wants to stay at Leipzig or come to Liverpool, according to Ornstein. He would rather wait a year to come here than move to United or Barcelona. Gone up in my estimations Timo.

Ornstein says that Liverpool are highely unlikely to spend the kind of money that would be required to purchase Werner.

Werner's release clause is effectively 60 million euros now, that drops to 40 next year and 25 the year after that.
 

jgw_geneseo

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With the way things seem, doubt he'd cost us the full 60 right now, we seem to have good relationship with them (at least going by their Twitter account lol).

Nothing moving until they get this mess sorted and figure out when/ how league restarts, but he seems pretty nailed on to be a Liverpool at some point.