Timo Werner (CF) RB Leipzig

What will Werner be leaning on?

  • The Wall of Champions, pointing at the newly installed 6

    Votes: 14 15.9%
  • Nabil Fekir's knee

    Votes: 11 12.5%
  • A bog standard table, with a bog standard pen, and a sheet of random paper

    Votes: 8 9.1%
  • The Champions League trophy for some weird reason

    Votes: 3 3.4%
  • Sadio's jockstrap

    Votes: 2 2.3%
  • The railing at Melwood

    Votes: 3 3.4%
  • Ralf Rangnick's animosity

    Votes: 3 3.4%
  • A giant can of Red Bull, cos he's not coming

    Votes: 40 45.5%
  • "Brazilian shit from beaches"

    Votes: 4 4.5%

  • Total voters
    88
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rab

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Why was I talking nonsense? Plenty seem convinced that he won't be able to play in the style that we want our wide forwards to play.
Because when it was pointed out that your points weren't making sense or were simply false you changed direction towards talking about price and ethics.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Because when it was pointed out that your points weren't making sense or were simply false you changed direction towards talking about price and ethics.
How did I? I listed the reasons I have problems with the deal. Some of those were football based, one financial based, one ethical. Maybe you're just getting too carried away? I still disagree with the opinion that there is no problem with him tactically I haven't stopped saying that.
 

rab

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How did I? I listed the reasons I have problems with the deal. Some of those were football based, one financial based, one ethical. Maybe you're just getting too carried away? I still disagree with the opinion that there is no problem with him tactically I haven't stopped saying that.
No one is talking about a deal. There is no deal to talk of.

I'm still waiting for you to name this Mane 2.0 that won't cost an unethical amount and the name of just one of these players Klopp goes out of his way to talk to without actually being interested in signing them. Oh and perhaps some acknowledgement that you simply dismissed all the highly reliable links because they didn't fit your opinion and that Klopp might just not want an exact like for like player with Mane.

Those are the things you breezed over with your shift to talking ethics. Not that it really matters because with all the uncertainty we won't be signing him anyway it seems so we'll not know whether he fits or not.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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No one is talking about a deal. There is no deal to talk of.

I'm still waiting for you to name this Mane 2.0 that won't cost an unethical amount and the name of just one of these players Klopp goes out of his way to talk to without actually being interested in signing them. Oh and perhaps some acknowledgement that you simply dismissed all the highly reliable links because they didn't fit your opinion and that Klopp might just not want an exact like for like player with Mane.

Those are the things you breezed over with your shift to talking ethics. Not that it really matters because with all the uncertainty we won't be signing him anyway it seems so we'll not know whether he fits or not.
Wow. You're rather irrate at me for some reason. You jumped into this conversation halfway through with someone else I'll try to, calmly, answer your points.

The discussion that was going on before you stuck your oar in was about a deal for Werner, particularly one this summer.

I'm not naming any player I would prefer to sign this window as there is no player I want us to sign this window I thought I'd covered that?

What reliable links? All the LFC associated journalists have been open and honest, so far, in that they are making assumptions about an available player that fit a list of criteria the club gave them on the run up to the summer. All they've confirmed with the club is interest, keeping an eye on. Maybe if you think a more strong, reliable link has been made stick it here I haven't seen anything yet.

When and in what context has Klopp talked to Werner? Who put that out? Is it just when the teams met up at some point or was this like the fabled Blackpool trip. Loads of transfer stories say Klopp has spoken to such and such a player, he'd never be off the phone if they were all true. I believe we did make a move for him last summer so was that the conversation?

When did I breeze over anything and shift anything towards ethics? I mentioned ethics as one of 4 reasons why I have a problem with the deal (in this window) when listing the reasons why I have a problem with it, other reasons are the still the football reasons which I still stick to. I'm not sure when I'm supposed to have shifted Jack shit yet your posts come across as extremely angry that I've somehow not answered your football related points (which I have) and moved onto discussing ethics instead, you're the one that keeps going back to that point.
 

rab

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Stuck my oar in? I thought this was a forum for discussion? I'm not angry in the slightest, just frustrated at the dismissal of other people's opinions and facts that don't fit your view.

Ornstein, Honegstein, Pearce. All highly reliable and all have discussed our interest, the intricacies of his release clause and the first two talked of a specific conversation between Klopp and the player on a very specific date. All just pure coincidence I'm sure, nothing to see here.

If your ethics are getting in the way of discussing transfers sensibly, maybe the transfer rumour thread isn't the place for you to be. Would save threads being diverted by your holier than thou attitude.

Don't worry about replying, I won't be back.
 
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Good news Pearce has released an article on the Athletic saying we won't 'gamble' on Werner, and we won't spend any significant money on anyone this summer.
Yeah I posted the link to an article a few days ago, about Liverpool needing to pay penalties to Nike for the delay of the start of the contract. It will be huge, and it's highly likely that there will be no money left for any fancy / expensive transfer moves this summer. Especially for a luxury transfer like Werner's.
 

Mascot88

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Yeah I posted the link to an article a few days ago, about Liverpool needing to pay penalties to Nike for the delay of the start of the contract. It will be huge, and it's highly likely that there will be no money left for any fancy / expensive transfer moves this summer. Especially for a luxury transfer like Werner's.
I’d question the sanity of any club looking to go after big money signings this ‘summer’. Football is completely in flux, clubs have no money and nobody understands the value of a transfer. There is a risk we drop £50m on Werner, and it turns out post Coronavirus, and with a recession looming, he’s actually worth £20m.

Liverpool would do well to do nothing this summer, and see how it all shakes out.
 

Kopstar

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Yeah I posted the link to an article a few days ago, about Liverpool needing to pay penalties to Nike for the delay of the start of the contract. It will be huge, and it's highly likely that there will be no money left for any fancy / expensive transfer moves this summer. Especially for a luxury transfer like Werner's.
I doubt very much that any compensation agreed to be paid to Nike would be huge and it's also likely it wouldn't be paid solely by Liverpool (mostly by NB). Forget "ethical obligation", this would be a case NB would likely actually win so any compensation would need to factor that in.
 

costared

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Sadly the mishandling of the Corona virus is really going to mess up the game in the UK. Other countries are in a far better position to get things going again but we are in a situation where the recovery seems to be slowing down and everything could go wrong again.
 

Iluvatar

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Regardless of any feelings towards Werner, Pearce always sems to mention him in the same breath as AFCON i.e. Klopp wanted another forward because he was losing Salah and Mane to AFCON.

With AFCON presumably being scrapped, as well as other club cup competitions next season, the need probably isn't there.

Werner's release clause reduces by 25 million next summer. The smart money is on waiting a year, see how our finances and his game develops, and acting then. Spending 60 million now for a squad option/depth would appear reckless to me.
I think our primary target is Sancho but he is unaffordable, so Werner is a cheaper option but as you say us moving this summer was motivated by the AFCON rather than a pressing need. Maybe next summer Salah goes for the final challenge before he declines (Real probably) and we bring in Sancho and Werner. Klopp knows over the next 2-3 years he needs to rebuild his attack.. Sancho, Werner, Elliot (and / or Brewster) could well be the next generation.
 

GermanRed

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Yeah I posted the link to an article a few days ago, about Liverpool needing to pay penalties to Nike for the delay of the start of the contract. It will be huge, and it's highly likely that there will be no money left for any fancy / expensive transfer moves this summer. Especially for a luxury transfer like Werner's.
Liverpool to pay Nike penalties? What a good start to this relationship.

Their kits are also ugly. Mbappe seems to be the only reason why they got the deal:sneaky:
 

GermanRed

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I think our primary target is Sancho but he is unaffordable, so Werner is a cheaper option but as you say us moving this summer was motivated by the AFCON rather than a pressing need. Maybe next summer Salah goes for the final challenge before he declines (Real probably) and we bring in Sancho and Werner. Klopp knows over the next 2-3 years he needs to rebuild his attack.. Sancho, Werner, Elliot (and / or Brewster) could well be the next generation.
I think the plan (pre Corona) was Werner on the 'cheap' this summer and next summer to chose between Sancho and Mbappe. Both with one year left on their contract should be affordable for us.

All this talk about Corona changing Transfers in football. Personally I think this summer will be a bit calm (still expecting one +£70m deal) but next year it will be as if Corona never happened - at least for the CL clubs.
 

GermanRed

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Serious question - do the FAs, UEFA and FIFA earn money if clubs make transfers?
 

sandsoftime

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Me thinks the bottom line in all this is simple.... How fortunate we have become as a club to be discussing such transfers in this nonchalant 'take him or leave him' term and in such a blasé manner... we might have to watch an arrogance is not creeping into our thought patterns here. Immaterial of all the outside events at the moment, if Klopp wants him we will probably get him... and whilst we can all offer our own perspective on the merits or downside of the player… there will be a futuristic plan in Jurgens mind that I for one, am certainly not talented enough to second guess. We all know Jurgen is a perfectionist and that is what he constantly strives for.... so, looking at the talented forward line at his disposal now... could the simple reason behind such a move be that he just wants to up the ante and bring improvements to the trio he has... comparing them to what Werner could offer after the right guidance and instruction... Does Jurgen see our brilliant forward line as 'mavericks' that have been vital for our success to date... but mavericks that need ten chances in order to score three or four goals..? In Werner does he see a lethal, ruthless, efficient goal scoring machine in the making... same ten chances would bring seven or eight goals... think of Fowler with the ball on his left foot... think of Rush bearing down on goal... think of Gerard priming his right leg to shoot from outside the box... absolute experts in plundering goals... experts you would bet your house would score goals when the opportunities arise, and more importantly, when they mattered most... then think of Bobby, Mo and Sadio in the same frame... can we all honestly say we would bet things of value each and every time on these goal scoring opportunities being fruitful....?? No criticism intended, but maybe not... Does Jurgen think this ruthless no-nonsense efficient mode of putting the ball in the back of the net exists already in this lads DNA... well if he does... Werner will be on his way to Anfield when Jurgen thinks the moment and the current situation makes for good sense...
In Jurgen We Trust.! :)
 

Kopstar

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Me thinks the bottom line in all this is simple.... How fortunate we have become as a club to be discussing such transfers in this nonchalant 'take him or leave him' term and in such a blasé manner... we might have to watch an arrogance is not creeping into our thought patterns here. Immaterial of all the outside events at the moment, if Klopp wants him we will probably get him... and whilst we can all offer our own perspective on the merits or downside of the player… there will be a futuristic plan in Jurgens mind that I for one, am certainly not talented enough to second guess. We all know Jurgen is a perfectionist and that is what he constantly strives for.... so, looking at the talented forward line at his disposal now... could the simple reason behind such a move be that he just wants to up the ante and bring improvements to the trio he has... comparing them to what Werner could offer after the right guidance and instruction... Does Jurgen see our brilliant forward line as 'mavericks' that have been vital for our success to date... but mavericks that need ten chances in order to score three or four goals..? In Werner does he see a lethal, ruthless, efficient goal scoring machine in the making... same ten chances would bring seven or eight goals... think of Fowler with the ball on his left foot... think of Rush bearing down on goal... think of Gerard priming his right leg to shoot from outside the box... absolute experts in plundering goals... experts you would bet your house would score goals when the opportunities arise, and more importantly, when they mattered most... then think of Bobby, Mo and Sadio in the same frame... can we all honestly say we would bet things of value each and every time on these goal scoring opportunities being fruitful....?? No criticism intended, but maybe not... Does Jurgen think this ruthless no-nonsense efficient mode of putting the ball in the back of the net exists already in this lads DNA... well if he does... Werner will be on his way to Anfield when Jurgen thinks the moment and the current situation makes for good sense...
In Jurgen We Trust.! :)
Let me introduce you to something that will blow your mind.

 

Limiescouse

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I’d question the sanity of any club looking to go after big money signings this ‘summer’. Football is completely in flux, clubs have no money and nobody understands the value of a transfer. There is a risk we drop £50m on Werner, and it turns out post Coronavirus, and with a recession looming, he’s actually worth £20m.

Liverpool would do well to do nothing this summer, and see how it all shakes out.
Cue stories of "City to spend 100 million on Havertz", although with the overall age of their squad, the impending loss of Silva, possibly Sane and the lack of fit of Jesus, it could actually be one of the more sensible moves they've made in years even at that price. You do also wonder whether someone at this stage in his career like Havertz, might be less put off by a 2 year CL ban than someone who's already used to that level of football.
 

GermanRed

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Cue stories of "City to spend 100 million on Havertz", although with the overall age of their squad, the impending loss of Silva, possibly Sane and the lack of fit of Jesus, it could actually be one of the more sensible moves they've made in years even at that price. You do also wonder whether someone at this stage in his career like Havertz, might be less put off by a 2 year CL ban than someone who's already used to that level of football.
Havertz today said he wants to play CL football next season.
 

Herb

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I noticed that Owen Hargreaves was quoted recently as saying he reminds him of Torres, which is something I have thought myself when watching him a few times in the past. Obviously not near to that level yet and I’m not convinced he’ll ever get to that level, Torres had power and supreme ability in the air that Werner doesn’t seem to possess but there are some similarities in terms of the explosive pace, elite finishing ability and a sort of roughness around the edges for want of a better phrase? It doesn’t always look pretty the way he plays but you can’t argue that it’s not effective.
 

Kopstar

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I noticed that Owen Hargreaves was quoted recently as saying he reminds him of Torres, which is something I have thought myself when watching him a few times in the past. Obviously not near to that level yet and I’m not convinced he’ll ever get to that level, Torres had power and supreme ability in the air that Werner doesn’t seem to possess but there are some similarities in terms of the explosive pace, elite finishing ability and a sort of roughness around the edges for want of a better phrase? It doesn’t always look pretty the way he plays but you can’t argue that it’s not effective.
A quote I remember about Torres just before we signed him, I think from the Atletico manager, was that Torres never scored the same goal twice.

Now, he scored a lot of goals so he may well have scored the same type of goal more than once in his career but I still think of that quote and how accurate it was. Fernando just had so many different ways of scoring. He was an absolute joy to watch. Only Fowler has surpassed him for natural finishing ability in the time I've been following the club but Torres had power and pace as well.

I've only seen little bits of Werner and I haven't seen a similar natural finishing ability, but it's quite possible I've missed it. I wouldn't mind him here but he wouldn't be my first choice, or even in my top five.
 

Zoran

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Nah, he may have pace, power and nice numbers, but he's not the same type of player as Torres. Torres was a proper #9, best when he led the line himself. Also a reason I think why it never worked for him at Chelsea (I don't know what was their plan anyway, I don't think they really needed Sheva or Torres, not for the money they cost considering age/injuries) and Spain also at times struggled to fit both him and Villa in from the start. Werner looks to be evolving more into a dangerous support striker. Can be used right up top of course, but for a dominant team that needs to gel the game on the ball (Bobby is the tip of our "diamond", the connector), he's maybe best if he roams around, it's difficult to pick him up and he attacks different spaces. He looks like he's got basic work ethic, probably willing to learn and do whatever a managers needs him to do off the ball. That's how (or his way, there are different ways) he merits that freedom, because he's technically not quite to the level needed to be a central striker figure.
 

GermanRed

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I wouldn't mind him here but he wouldn't be my first choice, or even in my top five.
Players under 25 years and available for under £55m - would Timo Werner still not make your Top5?
 

ptt

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Will be very interesting to see how he copes with defenders and goalkeepers who are better than Conference level.
 

Kopstar

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Players under 25 years and available for under £55m - would Timo Werner still not make your Top5?
He probably would then but that's assuming that the market values haven't shifted, when they definitely have.

Who would currently meet that threshold assuming no shift in market values?

Sane?
Dembele?
Kimpembe?
Saka?
Onana?
Chukwueze?
Aouar?
Brandt?

Think some of them would be ahead of him, for me.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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He probably would then but that's assuming that the market values haven't shifted, when they definitely have.
This is the important bit for me. Werner may have made a lot of sense pre Corona but all talk of value and price needs to go out the window now. He'd still be the same price (owned by one of the few clubs out there that are unlikely to need to make sales) due to it being a clause (which usually means it all needs paying upfront and in full unlike more traditional deals that can be spread out and include performances). We should only still buy him if he is hands down the best option out there to meet our squad needs. But even then it should probably wait till next summer. It should only go ahead this summer if he is a perfect match and its a unique opportunity, a now or never situation for a player unlike any other we could fetch.
 
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