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Timo Werner (CF) RB Leipzig

What will Werner be leaning on?

  • The Wall of Champions, pointing at the newly installed 6

    Votes: 14 15.9%
  • Nabil Fekir's knee

    Votes: 11 12.5%
  • A bog standard table, with a bog standard pen, and a sheet of random paper

    Votes: 8 9.1%
  • The Champions League trophy for some weird reason

    Votes: 3 3.4%
  • Sadio's jockstrap

    Votes: 2 2.3%
  • The railing at Melwood

    Votes: 3 3.4%
  • Ralf Rangnick's animosity

    Votes: 3 3.4%
  • A giant can of Red Bull, cos he's not coming

    Votes: 40 45.5%
  • "Brazilian shit from beaches"

    Votes: 4 4.5%

  • Total voters
    88
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ILLOK

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Yesterday was the first time I've seen Werner play well but it didn't really answer many questions for me.

He was back in his second striker/free role position just off Poulsen after some ineffective performances on the left, a role we don't use. Free of any defensive responsibility he was just finding space in dangerous areas all game, which he did well. That said, Leipzig were getting 4 men in the box minimum for most attacks, sometimes up to 6 or 7. A good side would have battered Leipzig on the break yesterday but JN knew Mainz didn't have the threat to compete. We don't ever play with such a cavalier attitude.

I want to see Werner play well in a front 3, or at least impress when he doesn't have tons of support around him. That's where the Torres comparison makes no sense to me, Fernando could feast on scraps, he didn't care much of he was left isolated or not.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Yesterday was the first time I've seen Werner play well but it didn't really answer many questions for me.

He was back in his second striker/free role position just off Poulsen after some ineffective performances on the left, a role we don't use. Free of any defensive responsibility he was just finding space in dangerous areas all game, which he did well. That said, Leipzig were getting 4 men in the box minimum for most attacks, sometimes up to 6 or 7. A good side would have battered Leipzig on the break yesterday but JN knew Mainz didn't have the threat to compete. We don't ever play with such a cavalier attitude.

I want to see Werner play well in a front 3, or at least impress when he doesn't have tons of support around him. That's where the Torres comparison makes no sense to me, Fernando could feast on scraps, he didn't care much of he was left isolated or not.
Torres could still find ways to score when he was the only player in their half. He spent most of his time playing as our only player in their third, support arriving very late, if it was needed at all.
 

Cologne-Liverpool

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Yesterday was the first time I've seen Werner play well but it didn't really answer many questions for me.

He was back in his second striker/free role position just off Poulsen after some ineffective performances on the left, a role we don't use. Free of any defensive responsibility he was just finding space in dangerous areas all game, which he did well. That said, Leipzig were getting 4 men in the box minimum for most attacks, sometimes up to 6 or 7. A good side would have battered Leipzig on the break yesterday but JN knew Mainz didn't have the threat to compete. We don't ever play with such a cavalier attitude.

I want to see Werner play well in a front 3, or at least impress when he doesn't have tons of support around him. That's where the Torres comparison makes no sense to me, Fernando could feast on scraps, he didn't care much of he was left isolated or not.
We've always known that this is his main quality, find spaces, try to use his pace, decent finish from short to mid-range. He does that very well. That's what you get and it can be a very useful quality for a team. Every other aspect of football he's average imo.
 

Zoran

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Honigstein, who confirmed Klopp has held a virtual meeting with Werner in recent weeks, was talking to BT Sport when he laid out a new timeline for the proposed deal.

The German football expert initially expected Werner to be announced as a Liverpool player in April or May, but says the financial uncertainty brought on by the coronavirus pandemic has put the deal on hold.

Honigstein said: “I think they’re a bit hesitant to pull the trigger because they haven’t quite figured out how much of a financial problem the coronavirus will present itself to football, coming over the next month in the Premier League.”

“I think he’s waiting for things to fall into shape and it could be that the transfer window is much later than usual.”

“This kind of deal would have been announced in April/May, this time it could be August or September, but I still think there’s a very strong chance he’ll end up at Liverpool.”
 

KillerBeeLFC

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He probably would then but that's assuming that the market values haven't shifted, when they definitely have.

Who would currently meet that threshold assuming no shift in market values?

Sane?
Dembele?
Kimpembe?
Saka?
Onana?
Chukwueze?
Aouar?
Brandt?

Think some of them would be ahead of him, for me.

I dont think City would allow Sane to join us, he looks nailed on for Bayern if/when he moves.
The Barca Dembele? Dont think he would be available for 55 million and has been nowhere near as consistent as Werner over the last few years.
Saka? The kid at Arsenal? Might be a great player, might not be, he'll have to do it consistently for a few years before anyone will know for sure.
Chukwueze reminds me of Bolasie, as in he doesnt know where hes going to end up. Might be good but he hasnt proved enough yet and hasnt exactly set the world alight with some end product.
Not sure any of them even play in the same positions as Werner and none have been as consistent as him and/or had less injuries.
Brandt is the only one on the list who I think could play on the wing or in bobbys role and not in the same way as our team plays. I also doubt Brandt would be available for 55 mill.
I wont go into the other guys as they dont play the same positions. If were talking realistic targets that have proven themselves, I dont think you will get much better
 

Herb

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I've only seen little bits of Werner and I haven't seen a similar natural finishing ability, but it's quite possible I've missed it. I wouldn't mind him here but he wouldn't be my first choice, or even in my top five.
I’m still holding out hope that we remain interested in Sancho and Havertz, personally think both are already levels above Werner and have far higher ceilings than him as well. Would genuinely be gutted if United managed to convince Sancho to go there. But as has been discussed, it seems unlikely any deals of that magnitude will be done whenever the season eventually ends.

I do wonder if our fan base in general (myself included) are seriously underrating him mind. 30 goals and 12 assists in 37 games this season is an exceptional record, and yet the impression I get is that most aren’t really that excited about the prospect of signing him but rightfully have enough faith in Klopp, Edwards and the entire recruitment process at our club to trust that they are seeing something in him that maybe on the face of it isn’t immediately obvious to the rest of us.
 

KillerBeeLFC

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Honigstein, who confirmed Klopp has held a virtual meeting with Werner in recent weeks, was talking to BT Sport when he laid out a new timeline for the proposed deal.

The German football expert initially expected Werner to be announced as a Liverpool player in April or May, but says the financial uncertainty brought on by the coronavirus pandemic has put the deal on hold.

Honigstein said: “I think they’re a bit hesitant to pull the trigger because they haven’t quite figured out how much of a financial problem the coronavirus will present itself to football, coming over the next month in the Premier League.”

“I think he’s waiting for things to fall into shape and it could be that the transfer window is much later than usual.”

“This kind of deal would have been announced in April/May, this time it could be August or September, but I still think there’s a very strong chance he’ll end up at Liverpool.”
The signs have been there for months that this is nailed on
 

ILLOK

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I’m still holding out hope that we remain interested in Sancho and Havertz, personally think both are already levels above Werner and have far higher ceilings than him as well. Would genuinely be gutted if United managed to convince Sancho to go there. But as has been discussed, it seems unlikely any deals of that magnitude will be done whenever the season eventually ends.

I do wonder if our fan base in general (myself included) are seriously underrating him mind. 30 goals and 12 assists in 37 games this season is an exceptional record, and yet the impression I get is that most aren’t really that excited about the prospect of signing him but rightfully have enough faith in Klopp, Edwards and the entire recruitment process at our club to trust that they are seeing something in him that maybe on the face of it isn’t immediately obvious to the rest of us.
I don't think there's much underestimating going on, it's a question of how he fits into a team. Football isn't a game won and lost on individual records and he wouldn't be the first player to put up great numbers at one team and struggle to replicate his success somewhere else.

I remember @i_still_miss_fowler questioning Mhkitaryan when those rumours were at their peak. IIRC he was saying that all of his goals and assists are coming from the same situations and questioned whether they'd carry over to other sides. When he eventually moved to England despite not being a flop we saw that he wasn't quite the player he was billed to be and his numbers were quite misleading.

I personally just think that if we expect Werner to come and replace our front 3 in very different roles to the one he thrives in at Leipzig then we might be a little disappointed to find out he doesn't look anywhere near as good as he did yesterday.

We're beyond the point where we give free reign to attacking players to go and hurt the opposition. Everybody has responsibility, even Salah. Numbers alone don't quite cut the mustard, and indeed we've become a better, more effective team despite Salah's numbers almost halving from his first season here which was also the season Firmino's numbers went through the roof.
 
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Herb

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Obviously a lot will hinge on his ability to adapt to his new surroundings and any potential new role we ask him to fulfil. What I would say is that we’ve seen year on year how we are slightly adapting and tweaking our formation/style under Klopp. Is it fair to say most of us are assuming that he is being brought in to cover the front three positions and eventually take over from Firmino as the central forward? What if we are thinking of playing 4411/4231 more often with Firmino in a deeper role and he won’t actually have to adapt his game as much as we all think?

The Henry Mac point is an interesting one, I would counter that and say we could have had the exact same reservations about Salah before he came. A hell of a lot of his goal contributions for Roma were from near identical positions and situations.

Looking at Klopp’s track record with forwards I think ultimately we have to trust his judgement and the ability he has to coach these players to another level. Mané, Salah, Firmino and Lewandowski were all undoubtably talented players, Klopp shaped them all into genuinely world class forwards. I’m not sure many would say with much conviction looking back that they thought any of them would be capable of reaching the levels they have.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Obviously a lot will hinge on his ability to adapt to his new surroundings and any potential new role we ask him to fulfil. What I would say is that we’ve seen year on year how we are slightly adapting and tweaking our formation/style under Klopp. Is it fair to say most of us are assuming that he is being brought in to cover the front three positions and eventually take over from Firmino as the central forward? What if we are thinking of playing 4411/4231 more often with Firmino in a deeper role and he won’t actually have to adapt his game as much as we all think?

The Henry Mac point is an interesting one, I would counter that and say we could have had the exact same reservations about Salah before he came. A hell of a lot of his goal contributions for Roma were from near identical positions and situations.

Looking at Klopp’s track record with forwards I think ultimately we have to trust his judgement and the ability he has to coach these players to another level. Mané, Salah, Firmino and Lewandowski were all undoubtably talented players, Klopp shaped them all into genuinely world class forwards. I’m not sure many would say with much conviction looking back that they thought any of them would be capable of reaching the levels they have.
All fair enough but if we switch to 4231 or 4411 then Salah would be the best option in the 1 and, if we had Werner, he'd be competing with/backing up Firmino as supporting striker and Salah as main man. Meanwhile we'd need a player to come in and play the other wider position to Mane as a default starter. I wouldn't switch to that formation and keep Salah "wide" and Werner doesn't seem good enough to demote Salah or Firmino to a more cover like role. Probably only Mbappe or Messi would stand a chance of doing that.
 

spartacus136

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All fair enough but if we switch to 4231 or 4411 then Salah would be the best option in the 1 and, if we had Werner, he'd be competing with/backing up Firmino as supporting striker and Salah as main man. Meanwhile we'd need a player to come in and play the other wider position to Mane as a default starter. I wouldn't switch to that formation and keep Salah "wide" and Werner doesn't seem good enough to demote Salah or Firmino to a more cover like role. Probably only Mbappe or Messi would stand a chance of doing that.
Call me crazy but I do think Firmino backup, if we switch to 4231, will be Curtis Jone or Elliot.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Call me crazy but I do think Firmino backup, if we switch to 4231, will be Curtis Jone or Elliot.
Yeah if we switch to 4231, as it stands, the three behind the one would be; Shaqiri, Firmino, Mane. Back up would be; Wilson, Jones, Ox (all 3 would be able to play wide or central). Elliott would get chances too. Salah backed up by Origi and/or Brewster. In that set up Werner would be an improvement on Origi but Shaqiri would be the one most in need of upgrading, (unless Ox played as a starter?). In that set up Origi (if happy to stay) would be more than good enough cover.
 

Red over the water

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Sancho and Havertz appear to be a level above Werner, as would be indicated in the likely price, 50M v 100M, guessing on that, but probably won’t be too far off.

Werner has aspects to his game that are raw, but 30 goals and 12 assists in 37 games, and a track record prior to this season too, means there’s a hell of a lot he brings to the table already, before we improve him further.

Bring it on. Preferably as an upgrade to Origi, then the likes of Sancho and Havertz can come into play in another year, if any of our current front three decide they want to play somewhere else, as it’s a short career. Mbappé might be a bridge too far, but if he only has a year left next summer, we could arguably do something there. It’s a testament to how far we’ve come that the notion isn’t instantly laughed down, even if it is still a reach.
 

GermanRed

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Hope there is no 'Liverpool and target are happy to wait another year' situation in this case because it would mean we are not in for Mbappe or Sancho next year.

Timo Werner - now or never.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Feels like @Anfield rd Dreamer posts the same post over and over again for the last 3 months.

According to him Timo Werner would never ever - neither in this universe - nor in any other parallel multiverse - play centrally upfront for us if he comes in:geek:
Well seriously Salah is proven goods for this team and in this league. His record when played at CF is phenomenal for us*. He holds the Premier League scoring record. I highly doubt we would either drop or move that player to a position that he'll be less effective from for a player who has promise but no guarantee that he will hit the heights we know Salah can.

Edit; 22 goals and 8 assists in 25 games it looks like.
 
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JibJab

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It seems to me that every time we've been linked this strongly with a player in recent times, we've ended up signing him. Alisson. Keita. Virgil. Mo. Sad. The one exception was Fekir and we had that nailed on until unforeseen circumstances killed it at the last second.

I would be surprised if we didn't sign him eventually.
 

i_still_miss_fowler

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I don't think there's much underestimating going on, it's a question of how he fits into a team. Football isn't a game won and lost on individual records and he wouldn't be the first player to put up great numbers at one team and struggle to replicate his success somewhere else.

I remember @i_still_miss_fowler questioning Mhkitaryan when those rumours were at their peak. IIRC he was saying that all of his goals and assists are coming from the same situations and questioned whether they'd carry over to other sides. When he eventually moved to England despite not being a flop we saw that he wasn't quite the player he was billed to be and his numbers were quite misleading.

I personally just think that if we expect Werner to come and replace our front 3 in very different roles to the one he thrives in at Leipzig then we might be a little disappointed to find out he doesn't look anywhere near as good as he did yesterday.

We're beyond the point where we give free reign to attacking players to go and hurt the opposition. Everybody has responsibility, even Salah. Numbers alone don't quite cut the mustard, and indeed we've become a better, more effective team despite Salah's numbers almost halving from his first season here which was also the season Firmino's numbers went through the roof.
I am impressed you remember my posts from 8 years ago :LOL:
 

nikz200

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"Man Utd urged to make Werner move
1 day ago 24/05/2020

Timo Werner would be a good fit for Manchester United where he could expect to play a more integral role than if he were to join Liverpool, according to Owen Hargreaves.
For well over a year his future has been the subject of speculation, with Bayern Munich and Liverpool long considered to be the favourites to land him when he eventually leaves Leipzig.
But former United midfielder Hargreaves thinks the Red Devils should make an attempt to lure him to Old Trafford, suggesting Werner would struggle to dislodge Roberto Firmino at Anfield."


This thing about him dislodging Firmino from the starting role has really been the driving force argument the anti liverpool people have brought up. Is it really impossible to start all 4 of them together? I mean you could even rotate them and i think they would still be able to get maximum playing time.

I don't know what the opinions amongst our fans truly are about this. But i assume most of us have faith in Klopp and the staff to be able to fit in these players and not use this point as an excuse not to sign a certain player?

{EDIT}



They are sick to death of him down there :LOL:
 
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steveee

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Marsch knows he is perfect for us. There is no other big club in the world better suited for Werner to move to than us.

I would be shocked if we do not buy him.. it's just a matter of when. he can literally play for mane, salah, or Firmino something Havertz and Sancho can't do and will not ever do for us..
 

Iluvatar

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Hope there is no 'Liverpool and target are happy to wait another year' situation in this case because it would mean we are not in for Mbappe or Sancho next year.

Timo Werner - now or never.
I disagree, I think our long term is Salah leaves next summer for a final challenge and we bring on a younger superstar to replace him. So Werner is in addition to that.
 

Drubas

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Well seriously Salah is proven goods for this team and in this league. His record when played at CF is phenomenal for us*. He holds the Premier League scoring record. I highly doubt we would either drop or move that player to a position that he'll be less effective from for a player who has promise but no guarantee that he will hit the heights we know Salah can.

Edit; 22 goals and 8 assists in 25 games it looks like.
When we get things going with our front three, we play what modern managers and modern football educations refer to as "4-3-X", where the basic idea is that both Mané and Salah are allowed to move in centrally and even drift to the opposite side - usually to use space that Firmino creates when he drops and drags people out of position. This can also frees space for the wing backs.

Looking at the way Werner plays (seeking pockets of space), and his ability to do a fairly decent job all across the front three, he could probably get a decent shift in wherever his starting position may be.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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When we get things going with our front three, we play what modern managers and modern football educations refer to as "4-3-X", where the basic idea is that both Mané and Salah are allowed to move in centrally and even drift to the opposite side - usually to use space that Firmino creates when he drops and drags people out of position. This can also frees space for the wing backs.

Looking at the way Werner plays (seeking pockets of space), and his ability to do a fairly decent job all across the front three, he could probably get a decent shift in wherever his starting position may be.
But you'd still need that space creating. So that still relies on a false 9. If Werner is central there are no spaces for Salah and Mane to drift and move into to exploit. As I've said all along if Werner is a reasonable option to play in the same way as Salah and Mane then great. Lots seem to disagree with that though and from many descriptions it seems we would get a similar playing style as Origi just better at scoring (hopefully). I don't actually think the problem with Origi is his quality or goal return but his suitability in terms of style. So that's why I have some reservations on Werner.
 

richieh10

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Anybody who is against Werner coz he isn’t Mbappe needs to wake the fuck up.

we aren’t signing Mbappe, we may have a chance of signing him on a free but EVERY club will be in for him. Barca and Real will offer him 450k per week+ to become the heir apparent to Mr Messi and Ronaldo (even though he has moved on).

plus PSG will probably offer him numerous contracts with crazy sums involved.

Werner is a German international and regularly scores 20-25+ a season.

ticks all the boxes and Klopp ain’t woken up one day and thought “I’ll sign him”

scouted him for years I bet. Performances and attitude on and off the pitch
 
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