Timo Werner (CF) RB Leipzig

What will Werner be leaning on?

  • The Wall of Champions, pointing at the newly installed 6

    Votes: 14 15.9%
  • Nabil Fekir's knee

    Votes: 11 12.5%
  • A bog standard table, with a bog standard pen, and a sheet of random paper

    Votes: 8 9.1%
  • The Champions League trophy for some weird reason

    Votes: 3 3.4%
  • Sadio's jockstrap

    Votes: 2 2.3%
  • The railing at Melwood

    Votes: 3 3.4%
  • Ralf Rangnick's animosity

    Votes: 3 3.4%
  • A giant can of Red Bull, cos he's not coming

    Votes: 40 45.5%
  • "Brazilian shit from beaches"

    Votes: 4 4.5%

  • Total voters
    88
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Neukolln

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The article on the front page of TIA providing a list of alternatives shows there is not much else out there. Pretty shocking list and Werner is head and shoulders above everyone on there except Havertz.
Respectfully, I could not disagree more. There are so many wonderful players right now in world football to the point I don’t think the talent pool, overall worldwide, has ever been deeper. So much wonderful talent on display, and many players much better fit for us than Timo Werner. Personally speaking, I wouldn’t even put Werner in the top 5 or 10 of my own list of players to recruit....and I’m even German! :cool:

And before any of the social media fan police and recruitment specialists accuse me of playing the “typical, we don’t want Werner” rhetoric, nothing could be further from the truth. I’ve remained steadfast in my opinion since the very first link to Werner.
 

Richard88

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Respectfully, I could not disagree more. There are so many wonderful players right now in world football to the point I don’t think the talent pool, overall worldwide, has ever been deeper. So much wonderful talent on display, and many players much better fit for us than Timo Werner. Personally speaking, I wouldn’t even put Werner in the top 5 or 10 of my own list of players to recruit....and I’m even German! :cool:

And before any of the social media fan police and recruitment specialists accuse me of playing the “typical, we don’t want Werner” rhetoric, nothing could be further from the truth. I’ve remained steadfast in my opinion since the very first link to Werner.
Just out of curiosity, who would be your top 10 players to recruit?
 

Neukolln

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Just out of curiosity, who would be your top 10 players to recruit?
Great question! I could give you a more detailed reply later but for right now in no particular order, and right off the top of my head:

Kai Havertz
Memphis Depay
Milot Rashica
Maxwel Cornet
Bertrand Traore
Talles Mango
Moussa Diaby
Wout Weghorst
Josh Sargent
Victor Osimhen
Kasper Dolberg
Marcus Thuram
Robin Quaison

EDIT: this list provides absolutely no context or colouring to our actual needs. For example: our midfield is currently stacked, so recruiting a midfielder isn’t a huge priority.
 
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big noyd

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You are right though, if we take out the best GK, CB and manager in the world we will get worse. Not entirely sure what the point is in saying that though?
well i wasn't going to gloss over having the best defender & keeper in the world (though i'm doing that with the fullbacks), it helps

firmino, in particular, puts in a different kind of shift than ronaldo. maybe he & sadio are both somewhere on the bionic man spectrum that has milner at the far end of it. werner's a raw athlete who flies around (i'd rather have him for 50m than depay for 15m) & scores a ton of goals, he could've walked into the culture of this group and continued to develop

klopp doesn't have the m.o. or the stated desire to pull a wenger here, and he's built what we are. everybody knew we should hire him, but even then it didn't mean it was gonna work out. well it has. i don't trust this regime to do what's required to stay at the top once he's gone

this is all assuming that they wanted him but tried to negotiate leipzig down from the release clause. in those specific circumstances i think it's annoying
 

Sweeting

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well i wasn't going to gloss over having the best defender & keeper in the world (though i'm doing that with the fullbacks), it helps

firmino, in particular, puts in a different kind of shift than ronaldo. maybe he & sadio are both somewhere on the bionic man spectrum that has milner at the far end of it. werner's a raw athlete who flies around (i'd rather have him for 50m than depay for 15m) & scores a ton of goals, he could've walked into the culture of this group and continued to develop

klopp doesn't have the m.o. or the stated desire to pull a wenger here, and he's built what we are. everybody knew we should hire him, but even then it didn't mean it was gonna work out. well it has. i don't trust this regime to do what's required to stay at the top once he's gone

this is all assuming that they wanted him but tried to negotiate leipzig down from the release clause. in those specific circumstances i think it's annoying
OK so if I understand you correctly, you're worried that when Klopp leaves our ownership will not do everything they can to stay at the very top of the game?

Let's say Klopp sees out his remaining contract and leaves in 2024 - managing to keep us as one of the best sides in the world for the next four years. Salah, Fimino, Mane and van Dijk also leave aged 32/33 wracking up a couple more PL titles and a CL.

Then with the loss of all those guys we enter a rebuilding phase and start the process again... that's a pretty good run in my books, better than most clubs will ever get.

Personally I put more faith in the owners who appointed Klopp and implemented the recruitment team that has given us the best period of success in probably 35 years. The owners that green lit world record moves for the best CB and GK to push us to the next level. Increased the stadium size and are planning another expansion. In the process of moving us to brand new world class training facility, finally unifying thefirst team and Academy which has been a goal of the club for decades. I think they've shown plenty of ambition.
 
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richieh10

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Chelsea buying very well.

hate to say that but in 12 months time I think Werner could be one we all turn around and say “fuck not getting him was a mistake”.

have to say after winning the CL and now the PL I’d be disappointed with another season without a decent signing.

considering there appears to be some players who will go - Clyne, Lallana, Shaq, Lovren maybe Origi if he fancies playing more often we are 100% going to need to recruit
 

costared

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Great question! I could give you a more detailed reply later but for right now in no particular order, and right off the top of my head:

Kai Havertz
Memphis Depay
Milot Rashica
Maxwel Cornet
Bertrand Traore
Talles Mango
Moussa Diaby
Wout Weghorst
Josh Sargent
Victor Osimhen
Kasper Dolberg
Marcus Thuram
Robin Quaison

EDIT: this list provides absolutely no context or colouring to our actual needs. For example: our midfield is currently stacked, so recruiting a midfielder isn’t a huge priority.

Interesting. Must admit there are names there I have never heard before. How many of them are attack minded players and likely to be available for under 50Mill ?
 

Sweeting

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It’s like when it comes to football, we just don’t want to accept that Coronavirus is a thing.

Sell Origi, Grujic, Wilson, Shaqiri. Right. Who is buying right now?
Fair point. We probably imagined getting £65m minimum from Grujic, Wilson and Shaqiri but in the new market it might more sense for us to hold on to them and loan them out again, or keep them about the first team, and wait for the market to recover.

Having said that I think some clubs will be desperate to sell because they were already in financial trouble before the Coronavirus. We probably aren't one of those clubs so we can be patient and I wouldn't be surprised if we are a bit vulture-like and pick off a few opportunistic signings, probably mainly of youth players.
 

Sweeting

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I think Fowler makes some good points here. Basically, he says he has some attributes which he likes but overall doesn't think he's involved in the game on a consistent basis and isn't good enough to get a game ahead of our front three.

One very fair point he makes is; every club in the world has looked at Werner, if he was that good then why is he signing for Chelsea?
 
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Red Armada

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Chelsea buying very well.

hate to say that but in 12 months time I think Werner could be one we all turn around and say “fuck not getting him was a mistake”.

have to say after winning the CL and now the PL I’d be disappointed with another season without a decent signing.

considering there appears to be some players who will go - Clyne, Lallana, Shaq, Lovren maybe Origi if he fancies playing more often we are 100% going to need to recruit
If they go, they will be replaced. None of them are integral members of the team. Wijnaldum, who is about to enter his final year of his contract, on the other hand is a worry.
 
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wibseyred

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It’s like when it comes to football, we just don’t want to accept that Coronavirus is a thing.

Sell Origi, Grujic, Wilson, Shaqiri. Right. Who is buying right now?
Just had an argument with a fellow fan on Facebook saying all this Covid problems is bullshit excuse for FSG to siphon money out the club.
 

rab

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It’s like when it comes to football, we just don’t want to accept that Coronavirus is a thing.

Sell Origi, Grujic, Wilson, Shaqiri. Right. Who is buying right now?
Hertha have new ambitious investors and spent a good chunk of money in January, circa £70m I believe. Grujic seems pretty integral to them so I could see them going to £15m-£20m for him.

Shaqiri is getting interest from Newcastle. Might depend on their takeover but could see him going for £15m-£20m if not a bit more if Newcastle find themselves swimming in cash.

Even in this market £10m-£15m each for Origi and Wilson would be solid cash given neither are likely starters and tend to flash in moments rather than deliver consistently.

£50m ish four players, only one of which has really been available to us this year isn't to be sniffed at. Also Clyne and Lallana wages off the books too.
 

waldaz

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But selling right now wouldn't make much sense if we aren't willing to reinvest straight away. That would feel pretty stupid, unless our finances are so bad we need to trim our wage bill at all costs.
 

rab

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I don't think there's a suggestion that we won't buy anyone this window. Just that we're not going to splash £50m on Werner right now before we know more about the potential impact or having raised some funds offloading squad players.

I'd also suggest that of those for, the only one that would need replacing would be Origi. The other five have played about 500 minutes for us in the league this season.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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I don't think there's a suggestion that we won't buy anyone this window. Just that we're not going to splash £50m on Werner right now before we know more about the potential impact or having raised some funds offloading squad players.

I'd also suggest that of those for, the only one that would need replacing would be Origi. The other five have played about 500 minutes for us in the league this season.
Yep it won't be that we won't have money its just hard to know how much and how much our losses will be this year. Its not the time to be jumping the gun and committing to £50m going out, in full, up front, within the next 12 months. Most deals will be under the usual payment plans so that £50m of sales might come in over 3 or 4 annual payments, but previous sales will still likely be coming in that way too. We could well be in a position to do an £50m or even £80m deal provided we can spread the payments out over say 4 years and include some performance bonuses within it. I don't think that's likely though, I think we will keep Origi for another 12 months and wait till the financial landscape has calmed down and market valuations can be understood a bit better.
 

Richard88

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Unbelievable though. We are going to be missing 2 of our best players next season for 6 weeks because of AFCON. We need cover and Werner fits the bill.
Afcon looks like it's going to be moved to 2022, so that makes it less urgent to sign a forward. It's also notable that a key selling point for Klopp when selling Werner the idea of joining Liverpool was that he would be used a lot during Afcon 2021 and kick on from there; but with Afcon getting moved Werner probably won't see big opportunities for game time at Liverpool next season.
 

Richard88

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But selling right now wouldn't make much sense if we aren't willing to reinvest straight away. That would feel pretty stupid, unless our finances are so bad we need to trim our wage bill at all costs.
Yep it won't be that we won't have money its just hard to know how much and how much our losses will be this year. Its not the time to be jumping the gun and committing to £50m going out, in full, up front, within the next 12 months. Most deals will be under the usual payment plans so that £50m of sales might come in over 3 or 4 annual payments, but previous sales will still likely be coming in that way too. We could well be in a position to do an £50m or even £80m deal provided we can spread the payments out over say 4 years and include some performance bonuses within it. I don't think that's likely though, I think we will keep Origi for another 12 months and wait till the financial landscape has calmed down and market valuations can be understood a bit better.
With the exception of Lovren we aren't in any rush to sell off our fringe players so I agree that it's likeliest that we hold onto the fringe players and loan them out again. And even in Lovren's case it probably makes more sense to keep him in the squad this year rather than selling him cheaply, even if it means letting him walk for nothing in 12 months.

• Dejan Lovren - 30, 2021
• Loris Karius - 26, 2022
• Xherdan Shaqiri, 28, 2023
• Marko Grujic - 24, 2023
• Harry Wilson - 23, 2023
• Divock Origi, 25, 2024
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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With the exception of Lovren we aren't in any rush to sell off our fringe players so I agree that it's likeliest that we hold onto the fringe players and loan them out again. And even in Lovren's case it probably makes more sense to keep him in the squad this year rather than selling him cheaply, even if it means letting him walk for nothing in 12 months.

• Dejan Lovren - 30, 2021
• Loris Karius - 26, 2022
• Xherdan Shaqiri, 28, 2023
• Marko Grujic - 24, 2023
• Harry Wilson - 23, 2023
• Divock Origi, 25, 2024
Largely agree but at the risk of derailing this thread I'd still let Lovren walk this summer. I'd have Van Dijk, Gomez, Matip and Fabinho dropping into CB in front of him in the pecking order (Henderson as deepest CM). Giving appropriate games to Hoever and Van Den Berg would take up some of the slots too. Its quite possible domestic cups and/or European comps are suspended for 2020/21 season too. Lovren really wouldn't get much game time in those circumstances if any at all. I'd much prefer Phillips (on his salary as opposed to Lovren on his) being that emergency CB hanging around for minimal game time and only if there are several injuries and we are facing a game Klopp doesn't want to risk an inexperienced kid in (Phillips and Lovren being more experienced in senior football than Hoever and Van Den Berg). But even then Klopp, when faced with those circumstances, has shown he has no fear trusting a younger player.
 

Richard88

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Largely agree but at the risk of derailing this thread I'd still let Lovren walk this summer. I'd have Van Dijk, Gomez, Matip and Fabinho dropping into CB in front of him in the pecking order (Henderson as deepest CM). Giving appropriate games to Hoever and Van Den Berg would take up some of the slots too. Its quite possible domestic cups and/or European comps are suspended for 2020/21 season too. Lovren really wouldn't get much game time in those circumstances if any at all. I'd much prefer Phillips (on his salary as opposed to Lovren on his) being that emergency CB hanging around for minimal game time and only if there are several injuries and we are facing a game Klopp doesn't want to risk an inexperienced kid in (Phillips and Lovren being more experienced in senior football than Hoever and Van Den Berg). But even then Klopp, when faced with those circumstances, has shown he has no fear trusting a younger player.
Phillips is terrible. Do you really want to see us lining up in big PL games with him at CB? Because that would be a realistic possibility given Matip and Gomez's injury records.

Until it's confirmed that there will be no domestic cups or CL next season it would be naive to go into the season with only 3 senior CB's.

And dropping Fabinho into CB is obviously a last-ditch emergency option, not one that you plan to have to make regularly.
 

Mascot88

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Phillips is terrible. Do you really want to see us lining up in big PL games with him at CB? Because that would be a realistic possibility given Matip and Gomez's injury records.

Until it's confirmed that there will be no domestic cups or CL next season it would be naive to go into the season with only 3 senior CB's.

And dropping Fabinho into CB is obviously a last-ditch emergency option, not one that you plan to have to make regularly.
I think if Fabinho played as a centre back he’d be top ten in the league.

I don’t see Fabinho as an emergency option there by any means. I’d be looking to get him 10-15 games a season at Centre Back, against the deeper sides. He would be basically occupying the same area of the pitch as he does as a DM and we could get more creativity on the pitch.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Phillips is terrible. Do you really want to see us lining up in big PL games with him at CB? Because that would be a realistic possibility given Matip and Gomez's injury records.

Until it's confirmed that there will be no domestic cups or CL next season it would be naive to go into the season with only 3 senior CB's.

And dropping Fabinho into CB is obviously a last-ditch emergency option, not one that you plan to have to make regularly.
I'd have Fabinho ahead of Lovren providing Henderson or Wijnaldum are fit to play the deepest CM position. So to play Phillips or Lovren through lack of choice you'd need two of Van Dijk, Gomez and Matip injured as well as Fabinho or both of Henderson and Wijnaldum injured/unavailable. It would also have to be a game Klopp didn't think Hoever or Van Den Berg was experienced enough to cope with or them both being unavailable. Thats one hell of an injury crisis. And we'd have more problems than just who we are using at CB. I literally would have Lovren as 5th choice at best, maybe even as low as 7th choice. Phillips is good enough for that and doesn't bring the issues Lovren does. Taking into account the wage bill and what the unwanted CB can be sold for too. Phillips isn't against Coronavirus vaccines and a possible liability to dealing with the pandemic either.
 

Richard88

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I think if Fabinho played as a centre back he’d be top ten in the league.

I don’t see Fabinho as an emergency option there by any means. I’d be looking to get him 10-15 games a season at Centre Back, against the deeper sides. He would be basically occupying the same area of the pitch as he does as a DM and we could get more creativity on the pitch.
Fabinho is one of the world's best DM's. While we might gain ever so slightly by putting him at CB instead of Lovren, we would lose a world class player in midfield.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Fabinho is one of the world's best DM's. While we might gain ever so slightly by putting him at CB instead of Lovren, we would lose a world class player in midfield.
So is Henderson. Fabinho is also one of the best CBs in the league going on performance.
 

Richard88

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I'd have Fabinho ahead of Lovren providing Henderson or Wijnaldum are fit to play the deepest CM position. So to play Phillips or Lovren through lack of choice you'd need two of Van Dijk, Gomez and Matip injured as well as Fabinho or both of Henderson and Wijnaldum injured/unavailable. It would also have to be a game Klopp didn't think Hoever or Van Den Berg was experienced enough to cope with or them both being unavailable. Thats one hell of an injury crisis. And we'd have more problems than just who we are using at CB. I literally would have Lovren as 5th choice at best, maybe even as low as 7th choice. Phillips is good enough for that and doesn't bring the issues Lovren does. Taking into account the wage bill and what the unwanted CB can be sold for too. Phillips isn't against Coronavirus vaccines and a possible liability to dealing with the pandemic either.
The bit in bold is just silly. Lovren has played in World Cup and CL finals and can play against the worlds best players. Phillips has a LONG way to go before he can be ahead of Lovren.

Let's put it this way: If Phillips was Stuttgart's player nobody would be clamouring for us to sign him to replace Lovren.

As for shifting Fabinho in there, I don't see why you'd needlessly create a problem for yourself that requires you to limit your options in midfield.
 
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