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Timo Werner (CF) RB Leipzig

What will Werner be leaning on?

  • The Wall of Champions, pointing at the newly installed 6

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Nabil Fekir's knee

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • A bog standard table, with a bog standard pen, and a sheet of random paper

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The Champions League trophy for some weird reason

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Sadio's jockstrap

    Votes: 2 22.2%
  • The railing at Melwood

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Ralf Rangnick's animosity

    Votes: 1 11.1%
  • A giant can of Red Bull, cos he's not coming

    Votes: 6 66.7%

  • Total voters
    9

nikz200

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has he already renewed his contract or is he doing it this window?
 


Cologne-Liverpool

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Btw, according to BILD (grain of salt, as always) RB are now trying a "creative solution" to get him to sign a new contract: a "10 club exit clause" for specific top clubs including LFC, Manchester City, Bayern, PSG, Barcelona, Madrid and Juventus - with a fixed transfer fee of, as BILD reckons, somewhere in the 70m€ region.

Edit: Apologies, just seen that this was already in the twitter thread
 
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Zoran

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Honigstein said that both Bayern and ourselves (probably more clubs, but the question was out of Bayern and Liverpool, who are more likely to sign him) are keeping Werner warm, but considering if it's the right "big transfer move" and when. We'll see what happens with his contract situation, that's a big factor, too. He will immediately cost double the price if he signs it. Leipzig want an answer soon because who knows if he's verbally already agreed something. It's a battle for timing here.
 

norwegian wood

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Honigstein said that both Bayern and ourselves (probably more clubs, but the question was out of Bayern and Liverpool, who are more likely to sign him) are keeping Werner warm, but considering if it's the right "big transfer move" and when. We'll see what happens with his contract situation, that's a big factor, too. He will immediately cost double the price if he signs it. Leipzig want an answer soon because who knows if he's verbally already agreed something. It's a battle for timing here.
I think it's tricky now for Liverpool to add the right attacker. Do they buy a striker or a wide player? And what sort of player; one who is best behind the defence or in front of the defence?

I sort of talked myself into Werner being the right type when we started to be linked, but I'm not so sure now. Is he a good fit as the third guy alongside Firmino and Salah/Mane? Can he play up front with Salah when Firmino is out, or are they too similar?
 



Zoran

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Asking myself the same questions. Style, price, the players we already have, game time between all of them and maybe what (something different) we might need more.
 

ubermick

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The problem is that our style has evolved to the point where I think there just aren't that many players out there (full stop, let alone players who'd be available) who could slot into the side seamlessly. We've seen it with Fabinho and Keita, players who are taking far longer than anticipated to bed in (although seems Fabinho's there or thereabouts, but it's now almost February).

Think Werner's probably fairly close. Not perfect, and agree that he'd struggle to plug any conceivable hole in the front three right away, but as close as we can get to someone that fits the bill, has the ability/talent/potential, and is available.
 
C

Caradoc

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We’re evolving a new style of play. Even established players from previous seasons have taken time to adjust so that is going to impact on new players coming in because they are not slotting into a completely settled style of play.

There are players out there who will suit our style of play in every playing department. Klopp has being doing this for years now with dozens of players at different clubs. If he feels the need to bring someone in he’ll get it done.

If he’s given up on Fekir but still needs a player to fill a certain role up front he’ll identify that player and Edwards will start working his magic as soon as he gets the go ahead from both clubs. How many posters identified Fekir as a likely ‘target’ before we found out that the club were looking to sign him?

Werner has the makings of a world class striker and left wing. But Klopp might not even be interested in bringing him to Anfield. Be prepared for more surprises next summer!
 

GermanRed

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The story so far (and some of my thoughts)

- May 2018
Ralph Hasenhüttl leaves Leipzig. RB didn't want to extend his contract - which had one year left on it - because they knew they will be able bring in Julian Nagelsmann from Hoffenheim in summer 2019. Understandably Hasenhüttl didn't want to be the 'stopgap' for one year.

- June 2018
RB Leipzig announce that Julian Nagelsmann will take over in summer 2019. They wanted him earlier but Hoffenheim refused to let him go.

- July 2018
RB Leipzig announce that their sporting director Ralf Rangnick will be their coach for the 18/19 season. He already managed them in the 15/16 season.

- August 2018
Timo Werner: 'I want to play under Nagelsmann for at least one year'

That sentence for me could be a hint that he already agreed to sign for Bayern in 2020 on a free transfer. Wouldn't be the first time that Bayern are doing early business with a young german international. They know they don't really need Timo Werner in 2019 because Robert Lewandowski will still be banging in the goals but the year after it could be a very good deal.

- January 2019
RB Leipzig CEO Oliver Mintzlaff: 'If Timo Werner doesn't extend his contract until the end of the season we will sell him in the summer'

RB making clear that they won't let him leave on a free in 2020. Very smart move IMO. I wonder how Bayern are feeling right now because they probably expected to get him on a free and Leipzig 'invited' all the big clubs to a bidding war.
 

redfanman

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The story so far (and some of my thoughts)

- May 2018
Ralph Hasenhüttl leaves Leipzig. RB didn't want to extend his contract - which had one year left on it - because they knew they will be able bring in Julian Nagelsmann from Hoffenheim in summer 2019. Understandably Hasenhüttl didn't want to be the 'stopgap' for one year.

- June 2018
RB Leipzig announce that Julian Nagelsmann will take over in summer 2019. They wanted him earlier but Hoffenheim refused to let him go.

- July 2018
RB Leipzig announce that their sporting director Ralf Rangnick will be their coach for the 18/19 season. He already managed them in the 15/16 season.

- August 2018
Timo Werner: 'I want to play under Nagelsmann for at least one year'

That sentence for me could be a hint that he already agreed to sign for Bayern in 2020 on a free transfer. Wouldn't be the first time that Bayern are doing early business with a young german international. They know they don't really need Timo Werner in 2019 because Robert Lewandowski will still be banging in the goals but the year after it could be a very good deal.

- January 2019
RB Leipzig CEO Oliver Mintzlaff: 'If Timo Werner doesn't extend his contract until the end of the season we will sell him in the summer'

RB making clear that they won't let him leave on a free in 2020. Very smart move IMO. I wonder how Bayern are feeling right now because they probably expected to get him on a free and Leipzig 'invited' all the big clubs to a bidding war.
Still requires the player to agree to a move doesnt it? If he has settled on a move to Bayern on a free, little Leipzig can do,
 



GermanRed

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Still requires the player to agree to a move doesnt it? If he has settled on a move to Bayern on a free, little Leipzig can do,
Being 'unwanted' at Leipzig and the whole world knowing that he is 'unwanted' I think that could do something to him.

Leipzig could also tell him that they won’t play him or not use him as a CF. He needs most of his games as CF next season to keep his CF spot for Germany at the EUROs.
 

redfanman

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Being 'unwanted' at Leipzig and the whole world knowing that he is 'unwanted' I think that could do something to him.

Leipzig could also tell him that they won’t play him or not use him as a CF. He needs most of his games as CF next season to keep his CF spot for Germany at the EUROs.
Yes. but if he wants Bayern on a free, then that might be a price he is willing to pay - are Leipzig really going to not pick him for a whole season? Secondly, i thought I saw someone post here that he wasnt really wanting to play CF?
 

GermanRed

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Yes. but if he wants Bayern on a free, then that might be a price he is willing to pay - are Leipzig really going to not pick him for a whole season? Secondly, i thought I saw someone post here that he wasnt really wanting to play CF?
At the World Cup he said ' as CF I sometimes struggle against deep defending teams and I have to work on it' - that doesn’t mean he don’t want to be the CF.

I‘m pretty sure he wants to keep that CF spot for Germany but that means he needs games at club level in that role.
—————
I think RBL will be able to convince him to make the right decision.
 

lfc.eddie

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Being 'unwanted' at Leipzig and the whole world knowing that he is 'unwanted' I think that could do something to him.

Leipzig could also tell him that they won’t play him or not use him as a CF. He needs most of his games as CF next season to keep his CF spot for Germany at the EUROs.
No I was told clubs cannot simply not playing a player in grounds of not wanting to extend contract to enrich the club. That would be illegal, infringement of some employee’s rights of some sort. So no.... the player has the power to dictate where he wants to go.
 



Red Spud

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No I was told clubs cannot simply not playing a player in grounds of not wanting to extend contract to enrich the club. That would be illegal, infringement of some employee’s rights of some sort. So no.... the player has the power to dictate where he wants to go.
Whoever told you this is wrong. It's not illegal for a club to decide to not play a player because they won't extend their contract.

There are examples of clubs not playing players who are looking to leave on a free, Rabiot has been frozen out at PSG since it became clear he won't renew his contract.
 

redfanman

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Whoever told you this is wrong. It's not illegal for a club to decide to not play a player because they won't extend their contract.

There are examples of clubs not playing players who are looking to leave on a free, Rabiot has been frozen out at PSG since it became clear he won't renew his contract.
There is some grounds for the player to have the contract cancelled but i cant recall the speciifics @Kopstar could probably advise on that. There was a high profile case in Italy a few seasons ago. Rabiot being frozen out probably has more to do with a conflict between him and the manager. I cant see any grounds for the same happening to Werner.
 

Kopstar

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There is some grounds for the player to have the contract cancelled but i cant recall the speciifics @Kopstar could probably advise on that. There was a high profile case in Italy a few seasons ago. Rabiot being frozen out probably has more to do with a conflict between him and the manager. I cant see any grounds for the same happening to Werner.
Yep, the player can terminate for sporting just cause if he's a regular first teamer that is then played in less than 10% of competitive first team games. But he can only do that at the end of the season and if it's his last year anyway then...
 

Red Spud

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Hahaha so if a player gets frozen out of the team in the last year of their contact they can leave when their contact expires which they would do anyway hmmmm
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Yep, the player can terminate for sporting just cause if he's a regular first teamer that is then played in less than 10% of competitive first team games. But he can only do that at the end of the season and if it's his last year anyway then...
So if it's less than 10% of competitive matches it's towards the end of the season when they can self terminate their contract? And a new team wouldn't be able to register the player as theirs outside of registration periods? Or am I overcomplicating it and nothing to do with the new club registering them?
 



Kopstar

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So if it's less than 10% of competitive matches it's towards the end of the season when they can self terminate their contract? And a new team wouldn't be able to register the player as theirs outside of registration periods? Or am I overcomplicating it and nothing to do with the new club registering them?
They can only terminate for sporting just cause at the end of the season. If the player then wanted to transfer/sign within the PL from another PL club (in the sense of their immediate former employer) they could do so the day immediately following the last day of the season. If it was an international transfer from outside of the PL, yes the player would have to wait until the international transfer window opened (which may be earlier than it was last year). That's also the same for terminating for just cause and I know FifPro have been fighting for a player's right to not have to wait for the next transfer window before they could join a new club but so far it remains the case that they need to wait.
 

Neukolln

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Whoever told you this is wrong. It's not illegal for a club to decide to not play a player because they won't extend their contract.

There are examples of clubs not playing players who are looking to leave on a free, Rabiot has been frozen out at PSG since it became clear he won't renew his contract.
Not that I'm disputing your claim overall about a player's rights, but Rabiot's situation goes beyond him being frozen out simply for wanting to leave on a free and not renewing. I've followed that situation closely all along and the relationship between Rabiot and Tuchel has been toxic for a long time. Rabiot is a diva athlete, his personal challenges are numerous and they undermine the sanctity of the dressing room culture. In the opinion of Tuchel, and he's the most important opinion at the moment as he is the leader, all detrimental to what he's trying to accomplish. I think the contract thing was just the push over the edge they needed to banish him. All that said, with Veratti now out Tuchel will most likely need Rabiot playing.
 
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StrongINTheAir

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Not that I'm disputing your claim overall about a player's rights, but Rabiot's situation goes beyond him being frozen out simply for wanting to leave on a free and not renewing. I've followed that situation closely all along and the relationship between Rabiot and Tuchel has been toxic for a long time. Rabiot is a diva athlete, his personal challenges are numerous and they undermine the sanctity of the dressing room culture. In the opinion of Tuchel, and he's the most important opinion at the moment as he is the leader, all detrimental to what he's trying to accomplish. I think the contract thing was just the push over the edge they needed to banish him. All that said, with Veratti now out Tuchel will most likely need Rabiot playing.
I think it says a lot (negatively) about Rabiot if he is the biggest issue in the locker room of a side that has had a petulant Neymar squabbling with Cavani since he arrived.
Actually I’m not sure I believe he is a bigger issue, but a cheaper option that is less dangerous to Tuchel to take head on.
 

lfc.eddie

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There are examples of clubs not playing players who are looking to leave on a free, Rabiot has been frozen out at PSG since it became clear he won't renew his contract.
I really hate to do this to you but....

Adrien Rabiot Stats 2018/19

Those numbers don't really looked to me like he's been frozen out, compared to this fella right here.. Left Back not being used even when there's no natural substitute for the position when the starter got injured. There are no clubs that would make such drastic move as to not play the player when they have quality others can hardly match and they needed him when there's no able bodies around. Unless you're shit, real shit.
 

Kopstar

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Great link to whoscored lol


Alberto Moreno Characteristics
+ Strengths
Crossing
Holding on to the ball
Passing
Key passes
Tackling

- Weaknesses
Aerial Duels


Andrew Robertson Characteristics
+ Strengths
Passing
Key passes
Holding on to the ball

- Weaknesses
Aerial Duels
Crossing

I'm never relying on that site again, for anything!

Eddie's right though (not often you can say that), Rabiot's hardly been frozen out this season. If he was though, entirely, he'd be able to terminate his contract for sporting just cause regardless of whether he was in the last year of his deal or not.
 



Red Spud

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I really hate to do this to you but....

Adrien Rabiot Stats 2018/19

Those numbers don't really looked to me like he's been frozen out, compared to this fella right here.. Left Back not being used even when there's no natural substitute for the position when the starter got injured. There are no clubs that would make such drastic move as to not play the player when they have quality others can hardly match and they needed him when there's no able bodies around. Unless you're shit, real shit.
Yes I am aware Rabiot was in the PSG first team in the 1st half of the season as at that point PSG were still trying hard to get him to sign a new contract.

Mid December it became clear to PSG he would not sign a new deal and since then he has been frozen out like i said.

PSG midfielder Adrien Rabiot 'indefinitely benched' for contract refusals - Antero Henrique

Paris Saint-Germain sporting director Antero Henrique has told Yahoo Sport France that wantaway midfielder Adrien Rabiot will not play for the French champions again unless he signs a new contract.
Anyway I don't think this is something that Leipzig would do to Werner if he enters next season with only a year on his contract. He is much more important to RBL than Rabiot is to PSG.
 

Red Spud

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Eddie's right though (not often you can say that), Rabiot's hardly been frozen out this season. If he was though, entirely, he'd be able to terminate his contract for sporting just cause regardless of whether he was in the last year of his deal or not.
Moving on from Rabiot, I only mentioned him as was the first example of a player being frozen out of the 1st team over not signing a new contract that I could think of. I had been following his story closely as looked like we may get him at one point but seems very unlikely now.

The Saido Berahino situation at West Brom a couple of years ago is another example of a similar contract situation that springs to mind. I can think of a couple more players who were "frozen out" for "other reasons" (basically being shit at football) Niasse at Everton, Janssen at Spurs and of course everyones favorite LAZAR MARKOVIC.

Quite a few examples of players who could supposedly terminate their contract under sporting just cause, will admit I hadn't heard of this before and only example I found was the lads at Sporting Lisbon who all left the club after being attacked by their own fans !

So anyway why is it that this rule is so seldom used ? Is it just down to money and players being happy to take the money and not play ? Seems strange this rule isn't taken advantage of more often.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Moving on from Rabiot, I only mentioned him as was the first example of a player being frozen out of the 1st team over not signing a new contract that I could think of. I had been following his story closely as looked like we may get him at one point but seems very unlikely now.

The Saido Berahino situation at West Brom a couple of years ago is another example of a similar contract situation that springs to mind. I can think of a couple more players who were "frozen out" for "other reasons" (basically being shit at football) Niasse at Everton, Janssen at Spurs and of course everyones favorite LAZAR MARKOVIC.

Quite a few examples of players who could supposedly terminate their contract under sporting just cause, will admit I hadn't heard of this before and only example I found was the lads at Sporting Lisbon who all left the club after being attacked by their own fans !

So anyway why is it that this rule is so seldom used ? Is it just down to money and players being happy to take the money and not play ? Seems strange this rule isn't taken advantage of more often.
Most players who play less than 10% of their clubs games it's because they got a big move for, what to them is, big money and then didn't kick on. They wouldn't get a similar or better contract elsewhere if they tear up the one they are on. It's rare/unheard of for a club to indefinitely bench a good player under long term contract for 90+% of matches. For a start that player would probably be loaned/sold in the mid season transfer window.
 

redfanman

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Moving on from Rabiot, I only mentioned him as was the first example of a player being frozen out of the 1st team over not signing a new contract that I could think of. I had been following his story closely as looked like we may get him at one point but seems very unlikely now.

The Saido Berahino situation at West Brom a couple of years ago is another example of a similar contract situation that springs to mind. I can think of a couple more players who were "frozen out" for "other reasons" (basically being shit at football) Niasse at Everton, Janssen at Spurs and of course everyones favorite LAZAR MARKOVIC.

Quite a few examples of players who could supposedly terminate their contract under sporting just cause, will admit I hadn't heard of this before and only example I found was the lads at Sporting Lisbon who all left the club after being attacked by their own fans !

So anyway why is it that this rule is so seldom used ? Is it just down to money and players being happy to take the money and not play ? Seems strange this rule isn't taken advantage of more often.
Not sure those examples are equivalent. Sadio wasnt frozen out - he went on strike didnt he because the club wouldnt sell him? Then he never got back into shape when he did make himself available. He moved to Stoke and again promptly disappeared.

Janssen and Lazar were never really in the team. In the latter's case he has shown nothing that warrants being kept in the squad and has since been replaced - he has just never agreed on a move to leave beyond the odd loan move as he is happy with his current pay and playing opportunities with the u23s.

Niasse i dont understand - he was being pushed out of Everton, came in and hit a scoring streak, then was pushed out again (to Cardiff?).
 

Kopstar

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Moving on from Rabiot, I only mentioned him as was the first example of a player being frozen out of the 1st team over not signing a new contract that I could think of. I had been following his story closely as looked like we may get him at one point but seems very unlikely now.

The Saido Berahino situation at West Brom a couple of years ago is another example of a similar contract situation that springs to mind. I can think of a couple more players who were "frozen out" for "other reasons" (basically being shit at football) Niasse at Everton, Janssen at Spurs and of course everyones favorite LAZAR MARKOVIC.

Quite a few examples of players who could supposedly terminate their contract under sporting just cause, will admit I hadn't heard of this before and only example I found was the lads at Sporting Lisbon who all left the club after being attacked by their own fans !

So anyway why is it that this rule is so seldom used ? Is it just down to money and players being happy to take the money and not play ? Seems strange this rule isn't taken advantage of more often.
Sporting Lisbon players are relying on just cause to terminate their contracts, not sporting just cause (somewhat ironically).

There are plenty of precedents for players terminating on either ground. CAS have even published a few, which is good of them.