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Timo Werner (CF) RB Leipzig

What will Werner be leaning on?

  • The Wall of Champions, pointing at the newly installed 6

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Nabil Fekir's knee

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • A bog standard table, with a bog standard pen, and a sheet of random paper

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The Champions League trophy for some weird reason

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Sadio's jockstrap

    Votes: 2 22.2%
  • The railing at Melwood

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Ralf Rangnick's animosity

    Votes: 1 11.1%
  • A giant can of Red Bull, cos he's not coming

    Votes: 6 66.7%

  • Total voters
    9

Red Spud

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Interesting discussion but you know it's been a quiet transfer window and way too long between matches when we end up talking about this so much hahaha
 


liver1

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Sporting Lisbon players are relying on just cause to terminate their contracts, not sporting just cause (somewhat ironically).

There are plenty of precedents for players terminating on either ground. CAS have even published a few, which is good of them.
What precedents are there on players terminating a contract on sporting just cause based on being frozen out of the first team for not signing a contract?

From what i can tell its just a theoretical rule i.e its the circumstances will dictate things rather than just meeting the basic qualifying requirements such as being a first team regular and playing less than 10% of games.

It you brought a case its more than likely it will be thrown out and you end up having to pay compensation for breaching your contract.
 



Kopstar

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What precedents are there on players terminating a contract on sporting just cause based on being frozen out of the first team for not signing a contract?

From what i can tell its just a theoretical rule i.e its the circumstances will dictate things rather than just meeting the basic qualifying requirements such as being a first team regular and playing less than 10% of games.

It you brought a case its more than likely it will be thrown out and you end up having to pay compensation for breaching your contract.
Plenty of precedents. Not all make it to CAS and not all CAS decisions have been published. A search of their database will reveal them.
 

liver1

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Plenty of precedents. Not all make it to CAS and not all CAS decisions have been published. A search of their database will reveal them.
That rule is there in case there is an extreme situation where it can be proved you are damaging a players development.

It would be like telling a player to train at Fitness First instead of Melwood. But no one has a right to play.
 

Kopstar

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That rule is there in case there is an extreme situation where it can be proved you are damaging a players development.

It would be like telling a player to train at Fitness First instead of Melwood. But no one has a right to play.
The rule is there for many reasons. It clearly establishes a minimum threshold of involvement a regular/established first team player is entitled to, failing which they can unilaterally terminate their contract. It's assessed on a case by case basis as you'll find out if you search for the cases at CAS that you previously implied didn't exist.
 

Limiescouse

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Not that I'm disputing your claim overall about a player's rights, but Rabiot's situation goes beyond him being frozen out simply for wanting to leave on a free and not renewing. I've followed that situation closely all along and the relationship between Rabiot and Tuchel has been toxic for a long time. Rabiot is a diva athlete, his personal challenges are numerous and they undermine the sanctity of the dressing room culture. In the opinion of Tuchel, and he's the most important opinion at the moment as he is the leader, all detrimental to what he's trying to accomplish. I think the contract thing was just the push over the edge they needed to banish him. All that said, with Veratti now out Tuchel will most likely need Rabiot playing.
The decision on Rabiot was taken above Tuchel's paygrade, but he was (publicly at least) happy to comply with it. The reasons that situation is not relevant to the legal protections Kopstar is talking about is 1) he's already played enough games this season for the threshold to not apply, and 2) his contract is up at the end of the season anyway
 



Neukolln

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The decision on Rabiot was taken above Tuchel's paygrade, but he was (publicly at least) happy to comply with it. The reasons that situation is not relevant to the legal protections Kopstar is talking about is 1) he's already played enough games this season for the threshold to not apply, and 2) his contract is up at the end of the season anyway
Again, I don't disagree at all or dispute. I was just adding to the Rabiot conversation....in a Timo Warner thread. :tongue: It's been a long 10 days between matches!
 

Kopstar

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Again, I don't disagree at all or dispute. I was just adding to the Rabiot conversation....in a Timo Warner thread. :tongue: It's been a long 10 days between matches!
I think the Rabiot reference arose because of the suggestion that if Werner didn't sign a new deal by the end of this season Leipzig would threaten to freeze him out of the first team next year (his final year under contract).

The FIFA rule is, obviously, inconsequential when a player is in their final year in terms of a player's entitlement to unilaterally terminate but a player could, in theory, still pursue a claim in damages against their club (depending on jurisdictional issues). However, where the FIFA rule has had an impact is in prevention. Simply having the rule mean that those circumstances are far less likely to arise.
 

Nikola

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Yet when Barca do it about our players we boo and hiss eh?

Shithousery.. Well in Naby and Sadio lads!
I haven't seen Mane's quotes but Keita's were along the lines of "if he ever decides to leave Leipzig, I'll try to convince him to come to Liverpool". Barcelona's players usually give unwarranted statements like "yeah, he's a great player and Liverpool are a having a tough time, he should come over here and win stuff". Wasn't far off the truth, mind, but it's still unsportsmanlike to tap up a player publicly like that from multiple points, "a charm offensive", as they call it.
 



Limiescouse

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I haven't seen Mane's quotes but Keita's were along the lines of "if he ever decides to leave Leipzig, I'll try to convince him to come to Liverpool". Barcelona's players usually give unwarranted statements like "yeah, he's a great player and Liverpool are a having a tough time, he should come over here and win stuff". Wasn't far off the truth, mind, but it's still unsportsmanlike to tap up a player publicly like that from multiple points, "a charm offensive", as they call it.
That's a distinction without a difference. It is still publicly signalling your interest in a player under contract at another club and of whom we do not have permission to discuss a move.
 

Red over the water

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Are there rules on the players doing this sort of thing? I know Edwards can’t phone Werner and discuss coming to Liverpool without Leipzig’s permission. And I know managers have the same sort of restrictions on them (though I would imagine, through intermediaries and agents, there’s some sort of communication to even see if it’s possible, long before any official contact or negotiation becomes public).

But what about players? Can they say in an interview, “Great player, I’d love for him to come here...”

On a related note to that, would a player ever give their opinion publicly about a player under contract elsewhere, without the manager’s tacit approval? In other words, is the charm offensive more than one player’s opinion about the quality of another? Is it a very public way of saying “we’re open to this if you want to come.” That’s what it looks like to me. Testing the waters.

Is it legal?
 

Kopstar

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Are there rules on the players doing this sort of thing? I know Edwards can’t phone Werner and discuss coming to Liverpool without Leipzig’s permission. And I know managers have the same sort of restrictions on them (though I would imagine, through intermediaries and agents, there’s some sort of communication to even see if it’s possible, long before any official contact or negotiation becomes public).

But what about players? Can they say in an interview, “Great player, I’d love for him to come here...”

On a related note to that, would a player ever give their opinion publicly about a player under contract elsewhere, without the manager’s tacit approval? In other words, is the charm offensive more than one player’s opinion about the quality of another? Is it a very public way of saying “we’re open to this if you want to come.” That’s what it looks like to me. Testing the waters.

Is it legal?
They have the same obligations to respect contracts and not to tap up as any other club official.
 



redfanman

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@Red over the water i have no idea about the legal stuff but

i'm pretty sure either Klopp (Edwards) told them to talk about Timo Werner or Keita and Mané already know something about our interest in the player.
Pretty sure they didnt.
More likely they are just friends with Timo and just answered the journalists questions in an honest way.
 

LFCFFC

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If Suarez can pretty much buy Coutinho a one-way ticket to Barcelona, surely answering a few innocent questions is fine.
 

lfc.eddie

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Made it sounds like as if Timo Werner not aware of how Klopp manages the club and what we are like. Needed Keita and Mane to talk the club up. If we wanted him and seriously looking to sign him, I am quite sure we've already been in contact with Leipzig. If we are not, then we don't need a recruitment department.
 



Red over the water

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They have the same obligations to respect contracts and not to tap up as any other club official.
Cheers. So will Keita be in trouble for his comment?

I would imagine if Klopp said that sort of thing in an interview, he would be in trouble. Are players held to the same standard?

Edit:
One line of defence would be to say, "I'm just answering questions put to me honestly" but it's not a good line of defence!

Would you like to sign player X?
I would LOVE to!

Would you like to sign player X?
I won't comment on players under contract at other clubs.
 

Scott Jones

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It's amazing things can get taken out of context especially with the likes of Barcelona talking about unveiling one of our players not once,twice but half a dozen fucking times,that ice is clearly very fucking thin when we're skating on it but not so much for those Catalans.
 

Kopstar

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Cheers. So will Keita be in trouble for his comment?

I would imagine if Klopp said that sort of thing in an interview, he would be in trouble. Are players held to the same standard?

Edit:
One line of defence would be to say, "I'm just answering questions put to me honestly" but it's not a good line of defence!

Would you like to sign player X?
I would LOVE to!

Would you like to sign player X?
I won't comment on players under contract at other clubs.
I don't know what he said other than what has been mentioned in this thread. If those comments were the extent of it he's fine. Even if made by a manager (and yes they would be held to a higher standard given their deemed greater influence over transfers) I'd expect them to be OK.

It's amazing things can get taken out of context especially with the likes of Barcelona talking about unveiling one of our players not once,twice but half a dozen fucking times,that ice is clearly very fucking thin when we're skating on it but not so much for those Catalans.
Yeah, that's a whole other level. Don't worry, we made them pay for it.
 

ShadesOfRed

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It's amazing things can get taken out of context especially with the likes of Barcelona talking about unveiling one of our players not once,twice but half a dozen fucking times,that ice is clearly very fucking thin when we're skating on it but not so much for those Catalans.
Barca was "accidentally" selling Coutinho tops before they even signed him. Not to mention Barca players (along with Reina IIRC) slipping Fabregas into a top as well.

I prefer it if our players didn't talk about transfers but it doesn't come close to the disrespect that club has shown others.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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I prefer it if our players didn't talk about transfers but it doesn't come close to the disrespect that club has shown others.
I'd prefer that too but we've all got to remember that these guys are answering questions so we need to keep calm. Especially as we don't really see the questions themselves often at all. Short of sticking their fingers in their ears and going "ner ner ner can't hear you not listening" whatever they say will make some kind of story.

He's a good player of course I'd like it if he came here= Are LFC tapping up target?

I don't really want to talk about links to other players= LFC star reveals his concern over playing time as club try to bring in new players.

He's a good player but I'm not sure if I see him coming here= LFC star hints at personal problems with player Klopp has targeted.

And so on and so on. All I've seen is diplomatic answers regarding his quality and the possibility of him ending up at LFC. Sorry if I've missed something more but not sure why some of our own fans are mudslinging at the club's recruitment, some of our players or a potential targets motivation over it.