Virgil van Dijk (CB) Southampton

Discussion in 'Rumour Mill - Transfer Talk' started by Nikola, Apr 14, 2017.

?

What will Virgil be leaning on?

  1. Dull corporate signage

    8 vote(s)
    3.6%
  2. Same door Sakho just walked out through

    17 vote(s)
    7.7%
  3. Big Tulip/Windmill/Clog/Dildo

    14 vote(s)
    6.3%
  4. Table with contract on, flanked by 26 lawyers (10 internal, 16 external).

    18 vote(s)
    8.1%
  5. A scared looking Alby Moreno

    7 vote(s)
    3.2%
  6. Klopp, while tugging his tie and grinning coquettishly at him, like the Pretty Woman poster

    22 vote(s)
    9.9%
  7. Billy the Fish

    4 vote(s)
    1.8%
  8. Melwood railing, which is visibly buckling under the strain.

    20 vote(s)
    9.0%
  9. Blackpool Tower, for the Bantz.

    29 vote(s)
    13.1%
  10. Stamford Bridge.

    4 vote(s)
    1.8%
  11. Dejan Lovren's whimpering carcass

    46 vote(s)
    20.7%
  12. No lean at all. After all, it's Nik who opened the thread.

    33 vote(s)
    14.9%
  1. SirBillShankly

    SirBillShankly Joe and Holly's dad

    Messages:
    6,763
    Likes Received:
    3,849
    I think Gomez would be a better option in that position.I reckon he could be a fantastic DM given time.
     
  2. redbj

    redbj hurry up, July 1st, let's get the show on the road

    Messages:
    15,562
    Likes Received:
    9,037
    I would personally have a problem with that, I wouldn't want our club associated further with the individual for many reasons.

    I get it's hard to maintain the rage, you can't manufacture true inspiration, but you can try your best.

    I believe there are other defenders out there in football land, and it wouldn't worry me if we ended up with a slightly inferior one, but one who understands the privilege of his position and wouldn't play with fire or people's emotions.

    I would also laugh...yep laugh...if we did push through and he shat in our face to force a move to Barca or PSG.

    This one stinks now.

    I'm of the hope that his performance ( as reported in here, I didn't see it) is due to a rusty return from a long absence and nothing more sinister.
     
    lfc.eddie likes this.
  3. Samwise the Brave

    Samwise the Brave Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    367
    Likes Received:
    539
    I think it's often the case that players returning from injury look slow and disinterested. The pace of the game is hard to replicate until you actually play.

    I bet it's nothing more than that and also coming to terms with his position emotionally. He'll put in some effort.
     
  4. Anfield rd Dreamer

    Anfield rd Dreamer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,883
    Likes Received:
    4,181
    So you want him to put in effort and play well being a professional? Which then gives Southampton no reason to sell him so we go without? Meaning we don't improve or buy a lesser alternative because we won't be waiting till his contract runs out that's for sure.
     
    Zinedine Biscan likes this.
  5. cynicaloldgit

    cynicaloldgit Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,786
    Likes Received:
    2,162
    Do you expect Coutinho to just sit on his arse and wave two fingers at Klopp until we sell him to Barcelona?
     
    RobLFC, auzziez, Incognito and 2 others like this.
  6. Anfield rd Dreamer

    Anfield rd Dreamer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,883
    Likes Received:
    4,181
    Will we sell Coutinho if he plays well, behaves professionally and shows commitment to our cause? No. So if Barca and/or Coutinho want him to be sold to Barca they're going to want half arsed measures from him to help persuade us to sell him. Point is people wanting VvD getting back playing and doing well for Southampton need to realise that ends any chances of him coming here. Klopp won't go back in couple of years when the player is older and still expensive. If Southampton get something out of keeping him they "won" this summer and were right to keep him. So I'm confused why people want the toxic situation that already exists between player and club to be resolved as it's against our best interests. If it continues a few more months Southampton look more and more stupid for refusing to deal in the summer and are therefore more likely to face this January.
     
  7. ILLOK

    ILLOK In the Danger Zone.

    Messages:
    11,999
    Likes Received:
    15,192
    "Couldn't be arsed" is pretty much a stock criticism though. Put it in the category with "no leadership". They seem to get aimed at anybody and everybody for anything and everything. Southampton fans told us Mane couldn't be arsed either. In fact, I've seen Liverpool fans say it too.

    It's more likely that he wasn't going full tilt because it's first game back from a long injury and it's only reserve football? But that doesn't make quite as dramatic a narrative.
     
    RobLFC, Limiescouse, auzziez and 2 others like this.
  8. redbj

    redbj hurry up, July 1st, let's get the show on the road

    Messages:
    15,562
    Likes Received:
    9,037
    Pretty much, yep. Although I acknowledge your angle, I would want a bar of him if he did it.

    I want him to be an honest human being, try his best and do the RIGHT thing.

    If he purposefully tanks at his club, he's a cheater...worse than a drug cheat in some ways. You may not agree, you don't have to, but I wouldn't want to sign someone because they purposefully played shite or went on strike ( during the season) to assist us make it happen.

    And thinking we'd somehow come out on top by him going on a strike is not my idea of success.




    People are acting like he's the only defender left in the world.... it's mostly about the system anyways in defence.

    The irony is, right next to him in the left back slot Jurgen signed a project player to cover for an aging midfielder, who didn't turn out so bad last season.....so we know Jurgen will work with players...then all of a sudden, in the gapping chasm of central defence, it's either VVD or no one....it's a head scratcher to say the least.
     
  9. redbj

    redbj hurry up, July 1st, let's get the show on the road

    Messages:
    15,562
    Likes Received:
    9,037
    Your at it again, playing devils advocate.

    Let me get this straight, you'd appreciate the player to go on some kind of quasi strike or form bomb so we can sign him....if so, I hope to God you never complain about 'modern footballers ' in my presence ever again.

    This club has honour, we should only sign players with honour, he should honour his contract. Full stop.
    Yep, pretty sure it's been suggest this is one big hypothetical, if that was clear, then I'm confirming now...we're discussing the situation as IF the accusation is founded.

    Much to play out yet.
     
    lfc.eddie and T.C.B like this.
  10. Hope in your heart

    Hope in your heart Loyalty and patience, two undervalued concepts... Admin

    Messages:
    20,098
    Likes Received:
    14,642
    So the guy plays for the first time after what, six months? And everyone expects him to immediately deliver a world-class performance for the U23s? And as he didn't, he's now either faking bad performances in order to drive his asking price down (and his attitude is despicable) or he's shit, and in both cases, we must back off and look elsewhere?

    Seriously lads... :eh?:

    I'm not convinced at all that this guy will fix all our defensive problems at once, but IF Klopp thinks he needs him, then let's trust him on that, eh?
     
  11. redbj

    redbj hurry up, July 1st, let's get the show on the road

    Messages:
    15,562
    Likes Received:
    9,037

    No no....why is it so hard to acknowledge, we are discussing it purely as a hypothetical.
     
  12. ILLOK

    ILLOK In the Danger Zone.

    Messages:
    11,999
    Likes Received:
    15,192
    To be fair to Hope, it wasn't only being discussed purely as a hypothetical. By you it was but not by others.
     
    Hope in your heart likes this.
  13. Anfield rd Dreamer

    Anfield rd Dreamer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,883
    Likes Received:
    4,181
    You're acting like his current club have done nothing wrong to him, he clearly feels they have. If they have he has no requirement placed on him to suck it up and do what they want. He feels he is the wronged party but you're saying that he now has to be a good boy. Act professionally and not cause a fuss, even though one already exists so you're actually asking for him to fix a toxic atmosphere. The situation there is shit. It seems, at the very least, to be 50/50 but if he knuckles down, acts honourable as you've called it then only Southampton win. He doesn't get what he wanted and believed he'd been promised. And most importantly for us, as Liverpool fans, LFC would never end up with the player and become improved as a squad. You're asking him to bend over and take it up the rusty tail pipe from Southampton when Southampton may well have done him wrong and ending any possibility of him coming here if he does. For their benefit? For a mentality of clubs over players? Some form of moral code? I don't get it. If an employer treated me half as shoddy as they are rumoured/accused (by him) of treating him would i fuck be going the extra mile for them. They'd have to make it up to me first. I don't care about the benefits to Southampton. I want Liverpool to succeed on the pitch. I think Southampton are fucked up the way they operate and show no loyalty to anyone they just use managers, staff, players like most clubs do. So I've got no standards that say a Dutch footballer in his mid twenties has to fuck up this prime period of his career for a club he probably never heard of growing up, that he's been at for 2 seasons, that have got bloody good mileage out of him in regards performance and future fee. He owes them fuck all. They've created this situation they can put up with it till January or they can try to come to some kind of resolution with him. But no i don't think he owes them anything. I think the situation is miles different from Coutinho here before anyone says it either. Coutinho does owe us a lot more for what we've done for him and his career.
     
  14. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

    Messages:
    41,619
    Likes Received:
    22,778
    You seemed to have a one-way street belief in your view. Coutinho owe us because we bought him for cheap, he worked hard and uses his talent the right way and he thrived. We now made him a player worth more than £100m, while back then only Southampton wanted him and we took him off their hands before they could even place that bid in the coming summer. Yes, Coutinho owe us. Why is Van Dijk not owe the team he plays for right now? Took him from Celtic in a cheap, put him in the Premier League spot light, he worked hard and uses his talent well and he is now worth 10 times more than what he was worth, but he didn't owe it to Southampton while Coutinho owes Liverpool FC. :well done:
     
    RobLFC and T.C.B like this.
  15. Zinedine Biscan

    Zinedine Biscan Trust in Klopp

    Messages:
    16,599
    Likes Received:
    22,643
    FWIW @redbj I do appreciate your point of view, and acknowledge that in many ways it's the far more honourable perspective than my own.

    I'd just really like us to sign this player, as soon as January if at all possible to increase our chances of ending the season with silverware, and I just can't see that happening (perhaps even at all) if he is properly welcomed back into the fold at Saints and recaptures his best form.
     
    James H and Anfield rd Dreamer like this.
  16. Artrain

    Artrain Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    782
    Likes Received:
    633
    I think he would argue that its his emotions that have been played with first. Heck its not just his emotions, its his career, his ambitions and a part of his life that has been played with (considering that his statement was true).

    Just a point of view though. Whenever stuff like this happens, I always put myself in shoes of the player (cause its easier) and think how I'd feel, and I'd be properly pissed and would probably do something similar (being not the calmest head around and all that).

    Its why I also don't begrudge Coutinho for what he did and would have preferred we let him go after finding a replacement (neither of which we did).

    I'm sure if Klopp or the club had gotten that kind of feeling from Coutinho, they would have sold him off. There's no way that kind of player stays at the club. The fact that it didn't happen tells me that there wasn't any Cold War going down at the club which the media would have us believe. If the recent pictures of Coutinho in training are anything to go by then he seems to be having quite a laugh at Barca himself.

    If there's genuine discontent in VVD, then Southampton have stupidly decided to play with poison IMO.
     
    Anfield rd Dreamer likes this.
  17. Anfield rd Dreamer

    Anfield rd Dreamer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,883
    Likes Received:
    4,181
    Not at all.

    Coutinho. A player stagnating and not being played at Inter after being there a couple of seasons. Somewhere between the youth team and a squad player but rarely playing in the starting 11 despite Inter being a shadow of their former selves. Most level of interest (apart from us trying to uncover a diamond in the rough) was a mid table Spanish side taking him on a 6 month loan a year earlier (that showed flashes that he could still be a player) and Southampton trying to buy him at the same time as us. We put trust in him, gave him a prominent role, played him through his development/inconsistency and have now made him a player Barca, one of the top teams around, want to buy him for stupid money and he's our "talisman". He's been with us for awhile, he was perfectly happy with us till late in the window and he unexpectedly sprung an attempt to leave on us right near the end of the window. We had very little, if Any, time to bring in replacements. Coutinho is at a historically huge club ready to step back up to the plate and hopefully compete for and win major honours, his actions had the potential of halting that momentum.

    Van Dijk. Raised eyebrows and gained attention playing in Scotland as their main player domestically and in European competition. Despite dominating there the top clubs would obviously not ready to take a chance on a player from Scotland. He therefore did what many players do and did a short term move to Southampton where he continued to impress and the big clubs have come in. He's been up front and honest with Southampton since before the window about his desire to move and there's been world record deals for a defender on the table since before the window opened to take if and when they want. They've had plenty of time and warning to bring in replacements (which they actually did as they now have multiple CBs and are overloaded there). They appear to have mislead him if half the information in his statement is true. He was there less than two years before he was requesting to leave he won't have anywhere near the attachment to them as Coutinho will have to us. VvD is at the perfect age to move to a big club and spend the next 5 years there competing for and hopefully winning trophies. He's at a club that is unlikely to compete for honours and his departure wouldn't harm the club he would be leaving. If anything him remaining there might do due to atmosphere in the locker room and damage to Southamptons reputation as a stepping stone club (if I was a rising young star I would think twice before moving there without a release clause Now, they were the best place for players like that this time last year).

    All just my opinion on why the two situations are radically different.
     
  18. GermanRed

    GermanRed Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    388
    Likes Received:
    401
    I hope we will get an early Christmas present in mid December - a statement that reads 'Liverpool agree deal to sign Virgil van Dijk'.
    Anything else than having him here later than january 1st would be ridiculous.
     
  19. EdVoKo

    EdVoKo Banned Users

    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    26
    Does anyone really believe things will be so much better with Van Dijk? From the outside Matip looked like a calm guy who would bring that calm composure to our defense. We're just as erratic and incapable with him as we are without. Lovren may not have been highly regarded by all but a big improvememt over Skrtel and Kolo right? Maybe, but nothing has changed in our defensive solidity and he's becoming a pariah for fans.

    I feel for Van Dijk if he does come. He's already meant to be our defensive messiah and he hasn't even signed. I don't envision his arrival putting an end to our results like last night's. The problem is bigger than one defender.
     
    redbj, LaurazRed, YeGra and 1 other person like this.
  20. Anfield rd Dreamer

    Anfield rd Dreamer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,883
    Likes Received:
    4,181
    We haven't had a leader in defence since we lost Carra and Agger. The hope is VvD brings leadership as well as quality.
     
    GermanRed likes this.
  21. LaurazRed

    LaurazRed The hopeful one

    Messages:
    819
    Likes Received:
    1,014
    To be honest you're right, I think we needed two central defenders. Plus at least one defensive midfielder which I thought we'd do when we let Lucas go.
     
    EdVoKo likes this.
  22. redbj

    redbj hurry up, July 1st, let's get the show on the road

    Messages:
    15,562
    Likes Received:
    9,037
    Carragher would have fared just as bad if his full backs were on permenant residency 3/4 up the park too..... he might have screamed louder, he might have scowled a lot more, he might have started a bit back stage too...but ultimately, he would have gone the way of the lovren and the matip.....

    In my mind it's not that hard, we either accept our situation and enjoy the football for what it is, clip the wings of the fullbacks, or sign a defensive midfielder who pure sits in front of our back two ( loath to say four to be honest) and screen from wing to wing.

    The beauty of football is there is no perfect answer....just scenarios.
     
  23. LaurazRed

    LaurazRed The hopeful one

    Messages:
    819
    Likes Received:
    1,014
    He won't be match fit though unless he starts playing first team football regularly, he's already missed half of last season due to injury.
     
  24. Anfield rd Dreamer

    Anfield rd Dreamer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,883
    Likes Received:
    4,181
    Actually been thinking that sometimes, and only for some games mind, we change formation but not playing style. Our front "4" most attacking players, when they're in form can tear any team apart. I think some games a front "3" would be fine. Whether that's a 1-2 shape, a 2-1 shape or a flat 3 spread out depends on who is available to play/in form and how the opposition sets up. That gives us an extra player I'd use in defence and go to a back 3. Moreno/Robertson and Alexander-Arnold/Clyne are all capable of playing wing back, most are better suited and vulnerable as full backs. A back three of Lovren-Matip-Gomez with Henderson and Can in front could be a lot more solid for us.
     
  25. VictoryInSight

    VictoryInSight Tactical Genius... at least on Football Manager

    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    85
    From what happened against Sevilla, I would argue that Joel Matip did exactly what I thought he would do - which was to run forward (and dribble the ball).

    Joe Gomez is a natural CB and that's where see him playing long-term. For Matip, he's someone that I am now preferring to be at DM rather than Henderson. To me, I'd rather a CB who prefers to sit back (like Van Dijk) and is able to anticipate where the ball is going and how to position himself against that ball movement by player on- or off-the-ball. Matip is a good tackler but he appears eager to want to go forward whenever there is no good passing option available.
     
  26. Kopstar

    Kopstar ★★★★★ Valued Member

    Messages:
    7,732
    Likes Received:
    14,996
    I think the answer is essentially top athletes in midfield who are able to cover a heck of a lot of ground whilst also maintaining their technical skills. Someone like Kante could play that 6 role and effectively be able to press, recover, shepherd, protect etc in front of the back four. He's often described as being equivalent to having two players. Now, I don't want to compare Keita to Kante but Naby does also offer fantastic energy around the pitch. So does Henderson. Wijnaldum and Can less so but being able to play two athletes together (Henderson and Keita) would significantly aid our defensive game. Having Lallana back to provide that energy over 70-75 minutes will also help but he's not getting any younger.

    Horses for courses, of course, but for me Can and Wijnaldum don't provide enough pace or energy in midfield to offer enough protection - particularly when the other team can counter attack at pace.

    None of that helps prevent Lovren falling on his arse when missing a simple clearance. In that respect, a better individual (as opposed to a different system), would have made the difference last night. Your description of Carragher is spot on but he wouldn't have missed a simple ball across the box.

    However, that's not to say that our defensive issues aren't also systemic - because I agree they are, by and large.
     
    Anfield rd Dreamer and ILLOK like this.
  27. Limiescouse

    Limiescouse Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,447
    Likes Received:
    9,614
    Nor would Carragher "forget" to transition from a position taken when in possession to one taken when defending after losing the ball, the way Matip so routinely does and has played a huge part in two critical goals in our last 2 games (the first against City and the equalizer last night. He is very good when he's in a position to affect the attack, but he so frequently just stands and watches while hopeless out of position that it is staggering to me. 2 goals in 2 games for what is essentially the same mistake, but you can see examples of it in pretty much every game this season, even if they somehow did not result in goals.

    I agree with your general point, but not that it applies to the City game. The annoying thing about how badly we defended was that we're playing a team you are going to expect to open you up at some point, and so you have to concentrate on not doing their job for them, and make sure if they score it is because of their inevitable excellence. We didnt. See my comment above about their first goal. We were set up as if we're going to play from the back (CB split), but Mignolet goes long. The immediate reaction from the CBs should be to pinch in and close that gap. Klavan sort of did, but Matip just stood still watching what was happening with the ball and before he knew it Aguero was running into the humongous gap that existed between our CBs. That does not need brilliance to exploit.

    Their equalizer last night was similar. Matip gets pulled out to the touchline as part of the sequence before the throw. No problem there, but the issue is he didnt recover and so again there was a massive gap between him and Lovren. Credit Seville for reacting quickly, as this is what our lads from the 70s and 80s always said was a key to their success - always look to exploit the person who turns off when the whistle is blown and attack them - but again, it didn't take much beyond quick thinking to exploit that error. One simple throw and all of a sudden their guy was 2 on 2 with Lovren and Moreno, with one more guy outside Moreno occupying his attention (he wrongly played it given how wide that guy was, but in the heirarchy of mistakes, he at least made a mistake by trying to do something). Matip was still not remotely recovered. This early on in the season, and this is already a pattern. It is something I have commented on in pretty much every match thread. I dont get why it's become such an issue. Maybe the loss of Milner at LB (without a CB partner addressing it, the LB is in the next best position to call to recover when he stays stuck out by the RB). We know Lovren isn't that guy, and we sure as hell know that Moreno isnt that guy.
     
    Anfield rd Dreamer likes this.
  28. Klopptinho

    Klopptinho Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,825
    Likes Received:
    2,399
    let's not be foolish . carra made mistakes too . his ability to overcome those mistakes and improve was a great thing about him . the main difference between carra and our current centre backs is a desire to defend and ability to react to a situation before it happens . ( closing gaps , pushing up , dropping deep and covering for players)
     
    treboeth and Alright Now like this.
  29. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

    Messages:
    41,619
    Likes Received:
    22,778
    Let's not forget them shirt pulling tactics he has, his lean on his opponent with his arms up in the air to obstruct them with his body weight.
     
    treboeth and Klopptinho like this.
  30. Klopptinho

    Klopptinho Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,825
    Likes Received:
    2,399
    it's the art of defending . we are too nice .. our defenders and midfielders are too fucking nice .lol if we leaned on someone we would probably apologise whilst they push us out of the way and score lol
     
    treboeth likes this.