Virgil van Dijk (CB) Southampton

Discussion in 'Rumour Mill - Transfer Talk' started by Nikola, Apr 14, 2017.

  1. Limiescouse

    Limiescouse Well-Known Member

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    A lot of people focus on whether he would be as good for us as he's looked for them, but I think that's the wrong question. More important is that we are going to play with a high press and a high defensive line. What we need is someone who meets the demands of playing that way, and the question is who meets those demands better than this guy? To me, the answer is that there is no one I can think of, regardless of how many more times he inevitably gets exposed playing for us than he did for Southampton.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
  2. ILLOK

    ILLOK In the Danger Zone.

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    You can only judge based on his attributes. He's athletic and he's very good with the ball. Two things Lovren is not, for comparison. No defender will ever look as good in an open side as a defensive one, but I don't see many other defenders who have the attributes to cope as well as Van Dijk theoretically could.
     
  3. Limiescouse

    Limiescouse Well-Known Member

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    I said it, I think on the De Vrij thread, but one of the ways to hurt us given the way we play is for their defense to hit a longer ball from the back thus bypassing the entire forward and midfield press. It requires the striker to make something out of what is normally at best a semi hopeful ball, but the way our CBs play that is more common than it should be. Matip can be outmuscled, Lovren can sell himself too easily. Klavan and Lucas rarely even step up to challenge that ball because of fear of the space in behind. VVD on the other hand is really imposing in dealing with that sort of situation. The bonus is he is good enough with the ball to ensure it used wisely to keep the pressure applied once he wins it back.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
  4. MarlboroMan

    MarlboroMan Vertrauen Sie mir

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    @Limiescouse and @ILLOK

    But how much would you pay for him? At what point do you walk away and say well that's just too ridiculous? Like for me its probably 60m but then again I don't know how much Napoli will ask for Koulibaly. I too can't name another CB that is as good as Van Dijk and is a leader like he is, that is quick enough to recover and stay with those quick forwards, that is no slouch when it comes to aerial duels and can defend 1v1 in space. I can't name any others even just below VVD that would be cheaper than the 75m that Southampton appear to be asking. Oh and the CB in question also has to be a left-sided CB and add all that up and the list must not be very long.
    Thing is if we fold and pay what Southampton are asking for him then all our work trying to stop clubs taking advantage of us will disappear and we'd have to start again but it would be even more difficult to get clubs to understand that we won't pay over the odds for player cause they'll end up just laughing in our faces and point to VVD.
    So how much is too much?
     
  5. AussieLFC79

    AussieLFC79 TIA Regular

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    50M plus 1 pound. I think that seems a fair price considering the dicking around they have caused us lol lol
     
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  6. Limiescouse

    Limiescouse Well-Known Member

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    This may seem like a kop out, but it's impossible to say without knowing more about how much money we think we can spend this summer. What I know is that it would be reasonable to prioritize him. So, if we have 200 million, as some sources have suggested, then 60 million doesnt seem too much. If we only have 100 million to spend then 40 million probably seems beyond us.
     
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  7. Elessar

    Elessar Well-Known Member

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    If we work that way then we have no chance at all to be number one again. If we don't pay the asking price or close to it then another club will sign the player and strenghten them. I have heard to death about not letting other clubs taking advantage of us but we are Liverpool and they won't sell the player to us only because we are that, Liverpool. They want the money or they won't sell the player to us.

    Look at Salah for another example of that. After weeks, probably months of negotiating we will probably end up paying what Roma want for him, or very close to it.
     
  8. Elessar

    Elessar Well-Known Member

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    How much money have we saved the last few seasons because we backed out of a few deals? How much money did we save on the players we signed?
     
  9. NYRhockey

    NYRhockey Well-Known Member

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    and if that's the case, so what? would it matter to anyone whether a player (Salah in this case) arrived 1 or 3 weeks into the offseason? Furthermore, why wouldn't anyone want to see if they can buy something for a lower price? it may not end up being that way, but why not try? If you've bought a car or house, did you just walk up to the salesman/realtor and said "i'll take it at the asking price!"?
     
  10. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

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    In some cases you would. Enzo Ferrari, McLaren F1, Porsche 959, Koenigsegg Trevita, Lambo Elemento, La Ferrari, just to name a few. You can't book or order it just like any other car, you are either being invited by the manufacturer or buy it from other collectors. In this case, Salah or Van Dijk for example could be seen as limited edition to us, because these are the players our manager sought after and wanted. They are one of their kind, where the club that holds their contract can be the one that dictate whatever they want.
     
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  11. Elessar

    Elessar Well-Known Member

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    Southampton will sooner or later most probably get around £75m for him. They don't need the money so they can afford to wait. The only way to get down the transfer fee is if the player put in a transfer request and/or if the player refuse to play.

    If he puts in a transfer request then the player want to be compensated and that means a higher signing on fee and higher wages so we would probably not save any money.
     
  12. gr_sounder

    gr_sounder Always Watching

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    Not a single person outside the inner workings of the club have any clue to any answer to those questions.
     
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  13. Elessar

    Elessar Well-Known Member

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    In some cases you know if you negotiate with a club listed on the stock exchange and the club have said how much they want for the player.

    Hoffenheim said very early that they wanted €30m for Firmino and we paid that for him IIRC. One example.
     
  14. gr_sounder

    gr_sounder Always Watching

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    I'd be willing to bet that even in those situations, some bargaining may occur or at least be sought. Rich people as much as anyone else wants to get a "deal".

    Also, neither Salah nor van Dijk is as rare a commodity in the football world that the cars you mentioned are in the car world.
     
  15. gr_sounder

    gr_sounder Always Watching

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    Yes, we know a price paid.
    But you wanted to know: How much money have we saved the last few seasons because we backed out of a few deals? How much money did we save on the players we signed?

    Neither of those questions is answered by knowing how much we paid for Firmino. Yes in the end Hoffenheim officially states they wanted €30m for him, and that's what we paid. But that is simply the finally agreed upon price. It has no bearing on what Hoffenheim may have tried to get. It's possible we haggled down from €35m. That's my point... you don't know. All you know is a final pricetag, but not what went into setting that final pricetag.

    And honestly, it's possible that this transfer of Firmino was simply that.... Hoffenheim says a price, and we say that we agree it's a fair price, so here you go. But that's not the way it seems to work 95% of the time.
     
  16. lfc.eddie

    lfc.eddie "¿Plata... O Plomo?" Valued Member

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    No mate, those cars I mentioned are either you take it or leave it or went into auction. Prime example is the Enzo when newly launched in 2002 went for USD600K. The latest transaction to date, the car went for USD2.9m. So you don't bargain with owners that collect those cars, because they either sell it at the profit they want to gain or else they will just keep it. Much like those players we want, the selling clubs are not going under or having financial constraints that needed to sell to survive (exception to Salah and Roma's FFP situation). When you are a richer or ranked higher clubs you tend to pay what was asked. Nature of the game.
     
  17. MarkMcC

    MarkMcC TIA Squad Member

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    I really really want him to come. To the point I'm willing to overlook recent embarrassment of my club. To the point I'm willing to pay out a record fee paid by my club. To the point that I'm agreeable for my club to pay out a possible world record fee for a defender.


    Though id also would like sign Messi, Kroos and Varane. Dont always get what you want. Still a believer that with smarter negotiation it will work out but if it doesn't ffs learn lessons, walk away and go to next target
     
  18. eythor

    eythor New Member

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    I fon't think this is a very good comparison. When rare, expensive cars go on sale there are probably hundreds, if not thousands of potential buyers, so a auction is very much a possibility. With Van Dijk LFC is the only club that's going to pay anything close to the asking price.

    Also, when you buy a car you know excactly what you're getting for the money. With a footballer you never really know how he'll adapt to the team. Clubs might be reluctant to splash the cash when they could potentially buy a player for half the price that would do just as well, if not better.
     
  19. Arminius

    Arminius FSG PR plant Moderator

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    I think it is a remarkable stretch to suggest that sooner or later, Southampton will get the highest ever fee paid for a defender, and a Top 5 all-time fee. I don't see any clubs beating down the door to sign him at that price right now.
     
  20. Ʒan

    Ʒan Well-Known Member

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    We are now at a juncture where we have no chance whatsoever of getting him unless he hands in a transfer request and he demands us only.

    If that doesn't happen, the VVD dream is over. If it does though, it gives us a very good chance of working out a deal which will be beneficial for both parties as Southampton will be forced to make it work.

    If this somehow happens, however slim that chance is, the apology statement could turn out to be the master stroke that made it all possible. Because we know Southampton are desperate to cash in big on this one and them having the choice of not selling at all or pushing for a £75m fee puts them in the best position. If VVD is forced into action to hand in a transfer request then they lose a lot of their power. In which case I don't think £55m would be out of the question.

    Obviously the above means diddly squat if VVD doesn't have the balls to hand in a transfer request.
     
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  21. GermanRed

    GermanRed Well-Known Member

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    Are there any favorites for the Soton manager job already? I've read that it won't be Tuchel. The new manager could also be decisive whether VvD stays or leaves.
     
  22. MarkMcC

    MarkMcC TIA Squad Member

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    Heard considering Frank de Boer. Can't make my mind up if that's good or bad. Would make great use of saints history of good youth and may be willing to let VvD leave. Yet the Dutch connection may mean the opposite and be an enticement for him to stay
     
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  23. Limiescouse

    Limiescouse Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing Southampton can do to convince him to want to stay. They can make him grudgingly accept having to stay, but there is not a single thing they can do financially or sporting wise to make him think staying there is in his best interests. Also, as @Kopstar has said, the identity of the manager will have little impact on how firm Southampton stand on this issue. As a club they just arent run like that.
     
  24. GermanRed

    GermanRed Well-Known Member

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    You're probably right. If anything the fact that they will have a new manager could even help us to get the player earlier. Remember the new manager will have some transfer wishes for which he could need the VvD money.
     
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  25. The Elusive 19th

    The Elusive 19th TIA Youth Team

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    May be they can learn from Klopp and throw the idea of a statue? ;-)
     
  26. Limiescouse

    Limiescouse Well-Known Member

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    Aye, that's a decent point. Probably the only way the identity of the new manager could impact the VVD situation is if he came in and encouraged Southampton to back down and take the money.
     
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  27. Klopptinho

    Klopptinho Well-Known Member

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    perhaps they will appoint VVD as the new player manager .. then he may just may .. drop himself , fine himself 2 weeks wages and demand that he trains with the kidslol club will have little option but to sell then .. although we would have to stipulate that soton play on a different day so his managerial duties don't interfere with us winning the title ! :well done::well done:
     
  28. Scott Jones

    Scott Jones Well-Known Member

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    Some strong shit you're smoking.:eh?:
     
  29. Klopptinho

    Klopptinho Well-Known Member

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    almost as good as this thread lol
     
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  30. kelvinfkt

    kelvinfkt New Member

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    as much as i wan VVD to come, however i think anything more than 40m is still silly money for a defender IMHO.

    Sakho + 30M will be nice...