• This website uses cookies. More information.
  • The This Is Anfield Forums community is moving to a new home. Click here for more information on the transition.

Welcome to Liverpool: Kostas Tsimikas

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
13,395
I'm not sure we were looking for a fifth choice centre back when we only had one left back.
We weren't. As I pointed out Kelly could/would likely (in my opinion) have been Lovrens replacement. Lovren nearly left last season. And been the emergency defensive option at LB in the same way as Gomez is at RB. Then Williams and Larouci could have been the promising, young, attacking options whilst Milner was old dependable type. Because we didnt land Kelly we ended up using Gomez as the defensive option and because Larouci didn't kick on and was leaving we tried Williams there. Then after getting through this season we can now get the back up left back that we wouldn't get whilst there was a question mark over Larouci. Thats my read on the situation.
 

rab

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2010
Messages
3,573
We weren't. As I pointed out Kelly could/would likely (in my opinion) have been Lovrens replacement. Lovren nearly left last season. And been the emergency defensive option at LB in the same way as Gomez is at RB. Then Williams and Larouci could have been the promising, young, attacking options whilst Milner was old dependable type. Because we didnt land Kelly we ended up using Gomez as the defensive option and because Larouci didn't kick on and was leaving we tried Williams there. Then after getting through this season we can now get the back up left back that we wouldn't get whilst there was a question mark over Larouci. Thats my read on the situation.
We definitely wanted a left back.

We didn't get the one we were looking at and the options we looked at this summer weren't under consideration last summer. We clearly have long term planning in place. It's obviously not about specific players, but instead the specific positions and when we may need to address them with scouting focusing heavily on those areas. Planned but flexible as no one will know when an injury, transfer or emergence of a young player may require us to address needs sooner or perhaps later.

Left-back was one we were comfortable to push a year once Kelly went elsewhere because we had Milner but we knew he couldn't be the backup plan forever.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
13,395
We definitely wanted a left back.

We didn't get the one we were looking at and the options we looked at this summer weren't under consideration last summer. We clearly have long term planning in place. It's obviously not about specific players, but instead the specific positions and when we may need to address them with scouting focusing heavily on those areas. Planned but flexible as no one will know when an injury, transfer or emergence of a young player may require us to address needs sooner or perhaps later.

Left-back was one we were comfortable to push a year once Kelly went elsewhere because we had Milner but we knew he couldn't be the backup plan forever.
Youre basing the assumption that we definitely wanted a LB on the attempt to sign Kelly and the assumption we would have been happy with him as a LB not a CB. You might be right but the types of fullbacks Klopp uses are a million miles away from players who can play CB as well. Gomez is probably one of the best CBs to try that and even he is only really used as a defensive/emergency option. Your assertion that we definitely wanted Kelly for LB and definitely not CB also completely ignores the fact Lovren was nearly sold that season and there appeared no attempts to buy any other CB contender other than Kelly. Kelly has just had what often happens with young CBs, before they are risked at CB they are frequently given experience at FB, especially if they have any ball playing ability and/or pace.
 

rab

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2010
Messages
3,573
Youre basing the assumption that we definitely wanted a LB on the attempt to sign Kelly and the assumption we would have been happy with him as a LB not a CB. You might be right but the types of fullbacks Klopp uses are a million miles away from players who can play CB as well. Gomez is probably one of the best CBs to try that and even he is only really used as a defensive/emergency option. Your assertion that we definitely wanted Kelly for LB and definitely not CB also completely ignores the fact Lovren was nearly sold that season and there appeared no attempts to buy any other CB contender other than Kelly. Kelly has just had what often happens with young CBs, before they are risked at CB they are frequently given experience at FB, especially if they have any ball playing ability and/or pace.
And you're ignoring the fact that having sold Lovren this summer we're looking for an experienced replacement, not a kid. And that Lovren's proposed move was well after Kelly had already moved to Bournemouth. He was very much a left back at Bristol City. Be odd to buy a young left back to play centre back a month and a half before a senior centre back left when there was such a gaping hole already at left back that we were trying to fill.

Hence the certainty we wanted a left back. That and all the reports that it was a position that we were looking to address and subsequently have done. Pretty obvious really.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
13,395
And you're ignoring the fact that having sold Lovren this summer we're looking for an experienced replacement, not a kid. And that Lovren's proposed move was well after Kelly had already moved to Bournemouth. He was very much a left back at Bristol City. Be odd to buy a young left back to play centre back a month and a half before a senior centre back left when there was such a gaping hole already at left back that we were trying to fill.

Hence the certainty we wanted a left back. That and all the reports that it was a position that we were looking to address and subsequently have done. Pretty obvious really.
Mate I said you might be right but you're making a lot of assumptions.

One it will be an experienced player not a "kid" replacing Lovren, we've actually been linked to a fair few young CBs and nobody really knows who we are trying to sign anyway.

Two that Klopp and the recruitment team would care how Bristol City used a player. They didn't care how many past clubs were using some of our players before buying them or even how we were using them prior to completely changing position.

Three if Bournemouth used him more as a CB than LB are you assuming they're more forward thinking than us?

Four you're assuming that Bristol City get a choice. If Kelly at LB is better than any other LB option they have but not yet as good as the CBs they have might that not be a reason to use him as they did?

Five being a LB for Bristol City and Bournemouth does not mean you can come close to performing on the role the way we need.

Six that Klopp would look at LB with Robertson, Milner and youngsters Larouci and Lewis and see more of a gaping hole than he would see if looking at CB and seeing 4th choice Lovren leaving.

Seven just because we failed to bring in Kelly that we didn't look at other players that summer that we don't know about. The club keep things under wraps very well. If after Kelly we were working on another target it might have only been when that other deal failed to transpire that we pulled the plug on the Lovren departure.

As I've said you may be right but youre making a lot of assumptions and then saying we were definitely trying to do something based on all those assumptions being right. I disagree as any or even all of them could be wrong.
 

The Elusive 19th

TIA Youth Team
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Messages
5,433
I just realised that, millions of LFC fans across the globe needs to recalibrate their thinking (and dreams) to remove LB from their transfer equations!!!

After two decades of having 'buy an LB' in their thinking, its going to take atleast a week or fortnight to recalibrate!!!
 

cynicaloldgit

#MbappéonaBosman2022
Ad-free Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Messages
6,688
I just realised that, millions of LFC fans across the globe needs to recalibrate their thinking (and dreams) to remove LB from their transfer equations!!!

After two decades of having 'buy an LB' in their thinking, its going to take atleast a week or fortnight to recalibrate!!!
Starting a new save of Football Manager will never be the same.
 

rab

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2010
Messages
3,573
Mate I said you might be right but you're making a lot of assumptions.

One it will be an experienced player not a "kid" replacing Lovren, we've actually been linked to a fair few young CBs and nobody really knows who we are trying to sign anyway.

Two that Klopp and the recruitment team would care how Bristol City used a player. They didn't care how many past clubs were using some of our players before buying them or even how we were using them prior to completely changing position.

Three if Bournemouth used him more as a CB than LB are you assuming they're more forward thinking than us?

Four you're assuming that Bristol City get a choice. If Kelly at LB is better than any other LB option they have but not yet as good as the CBs they have might that not be a reason to use him as they did?

Five being a LB for Bristol City and Bournemouth does not mean you can come close to performing on the role the way we need.

Six that Klopp would look at LB with Robertson, Milner and youngsters Larouci and Lewis and see more of a gaping hole than he would see if looking at CB and seeing 4th choice Lovren leaving.

Seven just because we failed to bring in Kelly that we didn't look at other players that summer that we don't know about. The club keep things under wraps very well. If after Kelly we were working on another target it might have only been when that other deal failed to transpire that we pulled the plug on the Lovren departure.

As I've said you may be right but youre making a lot of assumptions and then saying we were definitely trying to do something based on all those assumptions being right. I disagree as any or even all of them could be wrong.
But we did want a left back. It was highly reported. We admitted to wanting to buy one. We even leaked we wouldn't be going back for that one this time around. And then we've now bought one having apparently looked at four of them. If we'd bought Kelly last summer we wouldn't have been after one this summer.

There's fuck all assumptions there. But if it makes you feel like you know more than other folk feel free to keep saying that isn't the case. No skin off my nose.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
13,395
But we did want a left back. It was highly reported. We admitted to wanting to buy one. We even leaked we wouldn't be going back for that one this time around. And then we've now bought one having apparently looked at four of them. If we'd bought Kelly last summer we wouldn't have been after one this summer.

There's fuck all assumptions there. But if it makes you feel like you know more than other folk feel free to keep saying that isn't the case. No skin off my nose.
I'm not sure anyone ever knows what is going on at the club these days certainly not to the extent you are adamant was known about our plans last year. Yet again the pursuit of a left back and attempt to sign one last year is 100% based on the failed attempt to sign Lloyd Kelly and the presumption that we were doing it to predominantly play him at LB not CB. Something that Bournemouth, the team that bought him, didn't even do and we are even more demanding of our full backs. Look I didn't even say anything that different from you just that he'd have been our lrft sides Joe Gomez, a CB option who would cover LB. Its my opinion yours is different. We can never know because we aren't Klopp, he won't say and it didn't happen so we can never know for sure.
 

Mascot88

Bootroom Member
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
24,404
But we did want a left back. It was highly reported. We admitted to wanting to buy one. We even leaked we wouldn't be going back for that one this time around. And then we've now bought one having apparently looked at four of them. If we'd bought Kelly last summer we wouldn't have been after one this summer.

There's fuck all assumptions there. But if it makes you feel like you know more than other folk feel free to keep saying that isn't the case. No skin off my nose.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll probably say it again. All these lads who can play CB and FB are no good for us. We have basically, through Trent and Robbo, completely reinvented the position. Unless Kelly has the skills to be a creative playmaker from the wing positions (which from the little I’ve seen of him, I doubt), it was never going to work. I suspect had Kelly signed, Lovren would have been allowed to leave at that point, and Kelly would have come in as 4th choice CB.

Any lad who has the skill set to play centre back is not going to be much cop for us playing on the flank. When you see lads listed as CB/FB it means the old version of fullbacks where they were wide defenders in a flat back four. As I said, Trent and Robbo have reinvented the position, to point where I don’t think we really play 433 anymore - it’s more like a 253 most of the time.
 

rab

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2010
Messages
3,573
I'm not sure anyone ever knows what is going on at the club these days certainly not to the extent you are adamant was known about our plans last year. Yet again the pursuit of a left back and attempt to sign one last year is 100% based on the failed attempt to sign Lloyd Kelly and the presumption that we were doing it to predominantly play him at LB not CB. Something that Bournemouth, the team that bought him, didn't even do and we are even more demanding of our full backs. Look I didn't even say anything that different from you just that he'd have been our lrft sides Joe Gomez, a CB option who would cover LB. Its my opinion yours is different. We can never know because we aren't Klopp, he won't say and it didn't happen so we can never know for sure.
So whilst wanting a left back, as widely reported last summer, we tried to buy a bloke who predominantly played left back but it was apparently to replace a centre back we hadn't yet got a deal in place to sell.

It was then made known, whilst purchasing a left back this summer, that Kelly wouldn't be considered again this time around even though we do actually now need a centre back and this has convinced you he was only being considered a centre back option last summer.

Makes total sense.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
13,395
So whilst wanting a left back, as widely reported last summer, we tried to buy a bloke who predominantly played left back but it was apparently to replace a centre back we hadn't yet got a deal in place to sell.

It was then made known, whilst purchasing a left back this summer, that Kelly wouldn't be considered again this time around even though we do actually now need a centre back and this has convinced you he was only being considered a centre back option last summer.

Makes total sense.
Kind of trying to twist my point a bit but hey I'll try and respond.

We tried to sign Kelly. This is taken as evidence that we were trying to sign a left back. But let's look at Kelly, like many young, fast-paced, ball playing CBs, he was played at FB a lot. That doesn't guarantee he is even a FB at all let alone being the kind of uber-FB playmakers Klopp uses. It does mean, however, he could be very similar to Gomez, a CB who can provide an emergency, defensive, option at FB. This opinion could be backed up by the club he did go to using him more as a CB and less as a LB despite them not being as progressive as us.

We were looking at Lewis for two years, Tsimikas for 3 years, both we looked to try and complete deals for a year later, both more natural fits for the type of FB Klopp uses. If we had been seriously trying to sign a LB last summer one of those would have been ahead of Kelly, in my opinion, which all this back and forth is, our opinions.

It just so happens that during the summer we nearly signed Kelly we were also shopping around Lovren, our 4th choice CB who we then backed out of eventually selling and kept for a year longer. So there would have been an opening at 4th choice CB the same summer Kelly was brought in which would be quite a coincidence considering how much planning is put in by our recruitment team.

The reason we haven't gone back in for Kelly (as far as we know) might have more to do with the fact that, after rejecting us a year earlier and signing elsewhere for more money than we thought he was worth, he played very little football due to an injury, therefore hasn't really developed further and would require Bournemouth to at least make their money back (which we thought was above his value remember). It doesn't have to be that he was a LB option and we found other LB options who were better choices than him. Even though they were better choices than him the year before and on our radar too.
 

rab

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2010
Messages
3,573
Kind of trying to twist my point a bit but hey I'll try and respond.

We tried to sign Kelly. This is taken as evidence that we were trying to sign a left back.
Yes. Because he predominantly played at left back.

You've even repeatedly said you think Fabinho could well be our fourth choice centre back and Lovren may not need replacing. But you're adamant Kelly was being looked at as a centre back.

All getting a bit silly now but you think whatever you need to make you feel superior.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
13,395
Yes. Because he predominantly played at left back.

You've even repeatedly said you think Fabinho could well be our fourth choice centre back and Lovren may not need replacing. But you're adamant Kelly was being looked at as a centre back.

All getting a bit silly now but you think whatever you need to make you feel superior.
What I would do and what I believe Klopp would have done/decided to do arent the same thing. Yet again we are arguing opinions and such a little switch of them. The club that did buy the player in question actually did use him in the way I think we would have so not sure my opinion is as out there and as whacky as you seem to suggest.
 

Kopstar

★★★★★★
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Messages
15,504
I always thought of Kelly as being a natural CB who, like other young CBs before him (eg Gomez), is first blooded into senior football at full back. Sure, he can play LB (being left footed helps here) but he's not a natural wide player. If we were interested in him I think it far more likely that it would have been as a view to seeing him progress like Gomez (ie towards being a CB) than as a long term option at LB.

All irrelevant now. Can't wait to see what our recruitment team come up with next, particularly once they've boosted the coffers selling some more fringe players.
 

StevenAlonso

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Messages
632
Good luck lad!!! Welcome to LFC.. This could be a bargain buy.. Looking forward to lot of impressive displays from Minamino and Kostas..
 

KillerBeeLFC

TIA Reserve Team
Joined
Jan 11, 2011
Messages
1,414
He reminds me a bit of a young bale when he played left back. Its those powerful driving runs I think. Doesnt look like he can be knocked off the ball even when hes ran the entire length of the field and produces good end product. I wonder if klopp sees him as potential cover for left wing too at times.
 

richieh10

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2016
Messages
1,950
Love how he has just come out and is like “I wanna start”

could see Robbo go to the next level again next year as a result of the competition.

Also it’s fucking hilarious on his signing day Klopp face timed him.

kostas must have thought “the boss, don’t say anything stupid”

JK - “I just wanted to show you my dog”
 

Red Armada

TIA Regular
Joined
Jan 3, 2008
Messages
3,192
It's been confirmed that there is a case of covid-19 in the Greek national team. Although, it hasn't been revealed who tested positive, Tsimikas was the one missing from the Nations League game with what was reported at the time as mild fever.
 

iftikhar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
763
Oh crap :(

What about the other rumoured case during the Austria tour.