What would you class as a success?

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If they have the better squad and the money is there for us to strengthen, why aren't we doing so to make our squad more comparable?

The players are out there, they'd come to us in this position, the issues in the squad are obvious. Why aren't we doing something?
Because Klopp obviously likes to get his hand on new players previously to a full pre-season, and doesn't like to disrupt his squad with new moves midst in the season.

VVD is the obvious exception, but he was going to come anyway, and it has been reported how he took time to methodically prepare himself for the move.

Anyway, that's a discussion for another thread.
 

CymruRed

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If they have the better squad and the money is there for us to strengthen, why aren't we doing so to make our squad more comparable?

The players are out there, they'd come to us in this position, the issues in the squad are obvious. Why aren't we doing something?

Your talking like we have £100's of millions to splash out,we may have money to buy players but i doubt it's enough to strengthen our squad to make it comparable to Man City in this january window,without effecting what we can spend during the summer.

We have to be sensible with our money,it's the reason we are where we are now,after 3 full seasons under Klopp.We aren't Man City who can go out and splash £50mill willy nilly on players to fill gaps in our squad,with the hope they hit the ground running,we just can't afford to do it.

Players are highly scouted down to personalities and attitudes aswell as the onfield skills,these players aren't always available in january (for the right price) and Klopp isn't going to deviate from his plans to bring in 2nd,3rd or 4th choice options to appease us fans for the here and now,it's either number 1 option or nothing till the summer (which i agree with,as it's gotten us this far),we also don't need more deadwood to offload if these rush buying,2nd/3rd option,squad fillers don't work out.

That said,we have no right to win the league in this era of Man City,like Klopp said at the very start of this ride,lower your expectations and give him TIME (seasons) to build his squad,as thats the only way we can compete against these financial Monsters in our division.We still aren't the finished article,when you look at the deadwood that still needs to be moved on and players coming towards the end of their career's.

For me,where we finish and how many points we gain,in comparison to last year is the benchmark of a good season,yes it would be great to win the league or CL but aslong as we are improving as a team and the squad gets better and stronger,i think it's only time before we win things on a regular basis (hopefully this season).
 

Billy Biskix

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The whole of JK's period of management has been a roaring success. Year on year progression, not just CL regulars again but actually competitive in it, even getting to the bloody final. Fantastic football, some of the world's best players in our squad and now going toe to toe in the league with the most expensively assembled squad in the history of British football. This is the best time in years to be a Red.

Four points clear and it's obviously going to be disappointing now not to win it, but regarding the season as a success/failure on the outcome alone is too binary for me. Depends if we miss out how we miss out. If we get to the mid 90s in points for example and still lose then sometimes you just have to accept that you gave it your best shot but lost out to a team that was better than us. If we blow up/collapse then obviously that puts a different complexion on things.

I have a slight problem with the idea that a season can only be defined as a success if we actually win something. Depends what you win and how the season pans out overall. Last time we won something was 2012 but few regarded that season as a success, least of all the owners who sacked the manager. Some perspective is required given how far we've come in a relatively short period and I'm just not comfortable with the idea of a season being described as a success only if we win either the title, which we haven't won for 29 years or the CL which we have won once in 35 years. Seems a bonkers level of expectation.
 

Arminius

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The whole of JK's period of management has been a roaring success. Year on year progression, not just CL regulars again but actually competitive in it, even getting to the bloody final. Fantastic football, some of the world's best players in our squad and now going toe to toe in the league with the most expensively assembled squad in the history of British football. This is the best time in years to be a Red.

Four points clear and it's obviously going to be disappointing now not to win it, but regarding the season as a success/failure on the outcome alone is too binary for me. Depends if we miss out how we miss out. If we get to the mid 90s in points for example and still lose then sometimes you just have to accept that you gave it your best shot but lost out to a team that was better than us. If we blow up/collapse then obviously that puts a different complexion on things.

I have a slight problem with the idea that a season can only be defined as a success if we actually win something. Depends what you win and how the season pans out overall. Last time we won something was 2012 but few regarded that season as a success, least of all the owners who sacked the manager. Some perspective is required given how far we've come in a relatively short period and I'm just not comfortable with the idea of a season being described as a success only if we win either the title, which we haven't won for 29 years or the CL which we have won once in 35 years. Seems a bonkers level of expectation.
I would agree with that - I go back to what I wanted for this season. Consolidate a CL spot, and have at least a real shot at the title to lay the foundations for winning it 2020, and a cup would be nice. I just wanted us to keep in touch with City deep into the back end of the season, with the idea being that that experience would be necessary. Might still play out that way, but when I consider what I thought our objectives should be then, this season looks headed for a success.

I just hadn't factored in how my own expectations might shift, the above won't really feel that successful.
 

Dane

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If they have the better squad and the money is there for us to strengthen, why aren't we doing so to make our squad more comparable?

The players are out there, they'd come to us in this position, the issues in the squad are obvious. Why aren't we doing something?
I see the way you're steering this.
Predictable as ever.
 

Billy Biskix

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I would agree with that - I go back to what I wanted for this season. Consolidate a CL spot, and have at least a real shot at the title to lay the foundations for winning it 2020, and a cup would be nice. I just wanted us to keep in touch with City deep into the back end of the season, with the idea being that that experience would be necessary. Might still play out that way, but when I consider what I thought our objectives should be then, this season looks headed for a success.

I just hadn't factored in how my own expectations might shift, the above won't really feel that successful.
Yes, I totally get that. People's expectations change as the season progresses. My pre-season expectations were in line with yours. Have to say I thought City would probably romp it again and that we would do well to stay in touch with them. That we might not have a genuine chance of winning the PL until Pep buggered off and right now it's all about getting a bit closer, a bit stronger, applying a bit more pressure to them and see how they react, ready for the day when it's our turn. Turned out we got a bit closer and they cracked so we're a long way ahead of schedule. Now we have a great chance so it would obviously be disappointing not to win it from here.

I go back to that press conference a few weeks back at the height of the 'we're not as good as last season/bring Buvac back' nonsense when JK said that he had got the impression the season would only be regarded as a success if we won the title. He was being ironic because he obviously considered it absurd but here we are now discussing that very thing. Make no mistake, it would be an incredible achievement to win the title this season given what we're up against and how little margin for error there has been from the very first game.
 

Red Ted

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Fans can dress it up & put whatever spin on it they like - If we don't win the league or CL then this season will be a failure even if we do get 90+ points and come 2nd and/or another CL final.

Saying that this season would be a success if we won nothing yet again stinks of a loser mentality, the club simply has to start winning things again, there aren't really anymore valid excuses not to now.
 

Scott Jones

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Fans can dress it up & put whatever spin on it they like - If we don't win the league or CL then this season will be a failure even if we do get 90+ points and come 2nd and/or another CL final.

Saying that this season would be a success if we won nothing yet again stinks of a loser mentality, the club simply has to start winning things again, there aren't really anymore valid excuses not to now.
Is that you speaking for yourself or all of us.:rolleyes:
 

Bonus

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When Klopp first came to LFC, success for me would have meant a top 4 finish and a champs league place,
But given the rate of progress under Klopp and his team, my ideas of success has changed,
its all or nothing now!

Success for me would mean winning one of the 3 main trophies,
Champs League or EPL preferably and if not them the FA Cup. (which would be a good building block)

If not this season, then surely next season,
again given our rate of progress.
 

Zoran

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Didn't think we'd be in this position in the league last year. But we've made a big step. Win the league or not, I just don't want stupid decisions next summer. We have our main guns under contracts and without clauses (even that doesn't guarantee, but it's as safe as possible and the mood is good), let's not blow it if we give City a good run for their money but still can't cut it and finish 2nd (again, a big step considering we secured 4th spot in the last fixtures in the past 2 seasons). We were 2nd two times in my following and every other time we were closer and closer. But every time in the following season we destroyed the foundation, though that foundation (on and off the pitch) was never healthier than now. Competition is arguably stronger, too. City as single-champions (so far) are really impressive. They still are. But we've arrived now to a new level.

Short term, let's see what happens now in the remaining two competitions and how far we can go. I want a summer without stupid decisions (win the league or not), keep doing the right things and yes, it's start to win trophies again because this more than a decade or so just wasn't good enough for multiple reasons. Time to get back, maybe not able to be serial winners, but to grab various trophies and finally get the main one again.
 

Macolfc

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Pleased I opened this chat, some interesting thoughts amongst us.
Here’s my thoughts on it.

At the start of pre-season many pundits & fans me included thought it would be a two horse race between us & City. As the seasons progressed more people have come out & said it’s Liverpool’s title to lose, we are in the right frame of mind etc etc. People have also said we are back in the big time. How can we be classed as been back in the big time when as a team we have won absolutely nothing. 2 fourths in the league and lost 3 finals, there’s certainly no winning mentality there.

A club that’s been talked about all over in the press as been ‘big time’ & has the title in there own hands should be winning trophies. Be it the league cup, FA cup, CL or PL. I don’t buy into this idea of only trying to win the Fa or league cup if we get a favourable set of draws and then play to win deeper into the competition. Yes rest a couple of players but still play a team good enough & experienced enough to grind out a win.

Lose the league from this position & also get knocked out of the champions league then in my eyes we’ve had another dead season. Another season without silverware, another season being second best. It’s not a write off because we can build on the squad and move forward, but it can’t be classed as a success for a club supposedly big time.
 

KillerBeeLFC

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If were challenging for the title until the end id class that as a success. We need to think how far weve come in the last few years, how strong the others we are competing with are and have some perspective. If we fall a bit short there will be no shame and we should all be proud. Fuck what the glory hunting fans of other clubs say, we need to remember how far weve come and how near to obscurity we were.
 

KillerBeeLFC

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Pleased I opened this chat, some interesting thoughts amongst us.
Here’s my thoughts on it.

At the start of pre-season many pundits & fans me included thought it would be a two horse race between us & City. As the seasons progressed more people have come out & said it’s Liverpool’s title to lose, we are in the right frame of mind etc etc. People have also said we are back in the big time. How can we be classed as been back in the big time when as a team we have won absolutely nothing. 2 fourths in the league and lost 3 finals, there’s certainly no winning mentality there.

A club that’s been talked about all over in the press as been ‘big time’ & has the title in there own hands should be winning trophies. Be it the league cup, FA cup, CL or PL. I don’t buy into this idea of only trying to win the Fa or league cup if we get a favourable set of draws and then play to win deeper into the competition. Yes rest a couple of players but still play a team good enough & experienced enough to grind out a win.

Lose the league from this position & also get knocked out of the champions league then in my eyes we’ve had another dead season. Another season without silverware, another season being second best. It’s not a write off because we can build on the squad and move forward, but it can’t be classed as a success for a club supposedly big time.
Because the media say were big time then we should win it? What im taking away from that is you care too much what the media think. We are still the underdogs however they want to dress it up. City have spent vast amounts of money to get where they are while we buy robertsons and shaqiris. Weve spent the 4th or 5th most in the league since klopp came in. The coach has got these players playing to this standard and whether we fall short a bit or not its clear to me at least what a truly amazing job he and the other staff have done. Fuck the media and thier poisonous way of trying to derail anyone at the top. Look for yourself what we have achieved and be proud
 

Macolfc

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Because the media say were big time then we should win it? What im taking away from that is you care too much what the media think. We are still the underdogs however they want to dress it up. City have spent vast amounts of money to get where they are while we buy robertsons and shaqiris. Weve spent the 4th or 5th most in the league since klopp came in. The coach has got these players playing to this standard and whether we fall short a bit or not its clear to me at least what a truly amazing job he and the other staff have done. Fuck the media and thier poisonous way of trying to derail anyone at the top. Look for yourself what we have achieved and be proud

Couldn’t give a monkeys what the media thinks, but either way you dress it up we are still one of the big boys & should be competing further for trophies.

Man Utd Chelsea arsenal are way off the pace this season & spurs never Improved there squad. They will all improve in the summer as will city, so as someone else above said this season really is one of the best chances we have of winning it.

Also not been funny but what the fuck have we achieved?? Absolutely nothing, nothing at all. Win the league or the CL then absolutely, we have achieved something enormous. But as it stands we have achieved nothing.
 

KillerBeeLFC

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Couldn’t give a monkeys what the media thinks, but either way you dress it up we are still one of the big boys & should be competing further for trophies.

Man Utd Chelsea arsenal are way off the pace this season & spurs never Improved there squad. They will all improve in the summer as will city, so as someone else above said this season really is one of the best chances we have of winning it.

Also not been funny but what the fuck have we achieved?? Absolutely nothing, nothing at all. Win the league or the CL then absolutely, we have achieved something enormous. But as it stands we have achieved nothing.
So klopp has achieved nothing with us? Just competing for the title is an achievement in this league. Getting to European finals while having a net spend of buttons is an achievement. The fact we are being talked about as being serious title contenders in such a short space of time is an achievement. City should be wrapping up the title every year the amount theyve spent. I guess if pep misses out on the league we can all start calling him a failure. The guy has walked into the strongest teams in their respective leagues and is hailed as a god. What we are doing is much harder in my eyes and if we miss out by a few points ill still be proud
 

Macolfc

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So klopp has achieved nothing with us? Just competing for the title is an achievement in this league. Getting to European finals while having a net spend of buttons is an achievement. The fact we are being talked about as being serious title contenders in such a short space of time is an achievement. City should be wrapping up the title every year the amount theyve spent. I guess if pep misses out on the league we can all start calling him a failure. The guy has walked into the strongest teams in their respective leagues and is hailed as a god. What we are doing is much harder in my eyes and if we miss out by a few points ill still be proud

Might seem like I’m trying to be funny or start an argument but I’m really not, completely understand where your coming from. But in my eyes been proud of the team coming second in the league or reaching a final is a completely different to us achieving something.
 

KillerBeeLFC

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Might seem like I’m trying to be funny or start an argument but I’m really not, completely understand where your coming from. But in my eyes been proud of the team coming second in the league or reaching a final is a completely different to us achieving something.
Winning a trophy is achieving something certainly but achievement cant just be measured by that. If we miss out im worried that our fans will be sucked into the medias mentality and will ignore where we started and what we are competing with. Some fans called rafa a failure when we came second when it was a pure miracle and testiment to the mans ability that we were even up there. I was working in warrington a couple of months ago talking to a united supporter an he said he likes klopp but hes won nothing. Thats the kind of mentality i hope our supporters can avoid if we miss out. We are progressing but we are not the complete package yet and as ive said its no shame to be pipped to the post by a club that has unlimited resources, fairly or not
 

Semmy

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So if we end up without silverware, the brilliant journey, the days out, the laughs, the celebrations and the sheer joy of watching your football team bring great at football would be worth nothing?
post reported for too much common sense
 

Semmy

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To be honest, we have not yet this season seen that one match that stands out as ecstatic wins, where in 13/14 I would put the December Spurs match at the top of the heap, but also with the Arsenal and Everton matches at Anfield.

We will always have Blue Crimbo though.
Beg to differ.. Knocking out Napoli in the group stage on the last day was a tremendous effort.
 

Arminius

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Beg to differ.. Knocking out Napoli in the group stage on the last day was a tremendous effort.
It was, but it didn't quite hit the heights for me in terms of how the game unfolded.
 



ILLOK

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It was, but it didn't quite hit the heights for me in terms of how the game unfolded.
Everton, PSG and Napoli count for me. Late winners in the first two and Alisson's save in the latter.

And not wins but Mahrez' penalty miss and Sturridge's goal at Chelsea were great moments too.
 

Arminius

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Everton, PSG and Napoli count for me. Late winners in the first two and Alisson's save in the latter.

And not wins but Mahrez' penalty miss and Sturridge's goal at Chelsea were great moments too.
Everton was the moment so far I will remember the most from this season, but it was more comic than epic. I would agree with you about the PSG match, in terms of the dramatic feel plus how well we were playing that was probably our peak so far. Taken as a whole, December was amazing, but there was a decidedly anti-climactic feel to the ManU game in particular. Napoli was a great win, no doubt, but as much due to what was at stake as the flow of the match.

I am hoping for some truly huge moments from here to May.
 

James H

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I don't think you can classify seasons as purely successes or failures. A failed season is one in which you fail to achieve any target, if we cant win the league top four is minimum goal, if we achieved that the season may not be a success but it's not a total failure either. winning trophies is good and necessary for top clubs but it's the cherry on top of the cake not the cake itself. Second place this year, a deep run in CL, then i wouldn't consider the season an outright success but neither is it a failure. It doesn't have to be that binary.
 

gasband

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At the start of the season, I would see a good run in CL, qualifying for CL again, winning a cup as a good platform for Klopp to show his progress with the club.

But to be in this position leading 4 points after 22 games, it will be disappointing not to win the league especially now we are out of domestic cups.

At this point of the season and leading the pack, it becomes a mental thing as much as a quality thing. Just like how Leicester reach a certain point in their title winning season and realize that it is up to them to lose the league and for the manager to bring them over the line by hook or crook.

So that is what Klopp needs to do that to point the boys to the top prize, it is no longer an ambition, it is ours to lose and we win games ugly or not. It helps that we play great and has a great team and spirit but surely, the title would be the target now.
 

James H

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At the start of the season, I would see a good run in CL, qualifying for CL again, winning a cup as a good platform for Klopp to show his progress with the club.

But to be in this position leading 4 points after 22 games, it will be disappointing not to win the league especially now we are out of domestic cups.

At this point of the season and leading the pack, it becomes a mental thing as much as a quality thing. Just like how Leicester reach a certain point in their title winning season and realize that it is up to them to lose the league and for the manager to bring them over the line by hook or crook.

So that is what Klopp needs to do that to point the boys to the top prize, it is no longer an ambition, it is ours to lose and we win games ugly or not. It helps that we play great and has a great team and spirit but surely, the title would be the target now.
I agree with what your saying about mentality, however we as fans need to understand that disappointment doesn't equal failure necessarily, if we don't win the league disappointment is natural, especially considering our position, but it wouldn't mean we failed outright. It just means focus on the positives and learn from the failures.