Where’s your famous atmosphere ? ( because I miss it)

epsomred

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I’ve been trecking up to Anfield from London on match days for the best part of 40 years now but don’t bother anymore because the atmosphere in the ground just isn’t the same. It’s subdued, nervous at times and we seem to only sing a handful of the same old songs. The old ritual of clapping the away goalkeeper at the start of each half seems to have waned and the singing of YNWA at the end is pretty half hearted and patchy with lots of lads for the 4 pm kick offs rushing to get out presumably to watch Antiques Roadshow or some other similar Sunday night shit on the telly.

I know that on big European nights and key games, the atmosphere is immense but given we are on the verging of winning the league I’d expect it to be a bit more joyous and passionate than it seemed on the tv today. At times you could hear the coaches shouting and that was a very rare event before. I only go to away games now but even there it’s not what it was. It was brilliant at Palace earlier this year but very subdued at West Ham and to a lesser extent at Spurs.

My theory is lots of tourists and wannabe supporters have started to come to games as we close in on the title and their expectations of the game are set way too high. In addition I think we as a society have changed in how people consume their leisure activities. I see people filming corners, texting throughout the game and leaving early and I am bewildered. At West Ham, I went for a piss half way through the first half (because I have a 55 year old bladder) and a sizeable number of people were watching the game on the monitors whilst looking at their phones, drinking beer and eating pies. No wonder the atmosphere is getting worse.

Interested in what others think
 

Red over the water

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An early kick off and a modest opponent was always going to be a tough one for the crowd today. On the Telly here in America I could hear the songs to support the players, and it was all decent enough. It just wasn’t a massive game, and it’s a lot to ask for an electric atmosphere with an early kick off against... Bournemouth.

The win extended the lead from 22 to 25 points, so that’s another factor... it’s hard to scream your lungs out, early in the day, against Bournemouth, for what now seems a foregone conclusion. We’ve got this, and the crowd knows it.

Compare/contrast to Wednesday, coming up. It’s do or die, big opponent, kick off in the evening, could go either way... and all those factors will be reflected in what I fully expect to be an electric atmosphere.

Mind you, there is a fair discussion to be had about modern fans and modern people... too many of us seem to experience the world around us in a vicarious sort of a way, via the screen of our phones/devices. The ramifications of that cultural shift will be seismic... far greater than the effect on the match going football fan, but since this is about fans and atmosphere, yes, the phone culture is taking a toll.
 

epsomred

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An early kick off and a modest opponent was always going to be a tough one for the crowd today. On the Telly here in America I could hear the songs to support the players, and it was all decent enough. It just wasn’t a massive game, and it’s a lot to ask for an electric atmosphere with an early kick off against... Bournemouth.

The win extended the lead from 22 to 25 points, so that’s another factor... it’s hard to scream your lungs out, early in the day, against Bournemouth, for what now seems a foregone conclusion. We’ve got this, and the crowd knows it.

Compare/contrast to Wednesday, coming up. It’s do or die, big opponent, kick off in the evening, could go either way... and all those factors will be reflected in what I fully expect to be an electric atmosphere.

Mind you, there is a fair discussion to be had about modern fans and modern people... too many of us seem to experience the world around us in a vicarious sort of a way, via the screen of our phones/devices. The ramifications of that cultural shift will be seismic... far greater than the effect on the match going football fan, but since this is about fans and atmosphere, yes, the phone culture is taking a toll.
I agree the early kick off makes a difference car because let’s be frank, people haven’t gone to the pub beforehand.
 

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Yeah, alcohol (or lack of) makes a difference. Early kick-offs are never great in terms of atmosphere. Add to that the nervousness today after Bournemouth's early goal, and you have an almost silent Anfield at times.
 

Red_Jedi

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My 1st time at Anfield was 1995 in the Kop (Standing). The atmosphere was electric. Since stadiums have gone all seater, there isn't as much noise - its harder to shout and sing when you are sat down. This is true of all stadiums not just Anfield.

And I agree that society has changed.

Anfield is still intimidating - more so than most other stadiums. And match goers create that along with the team.
I love my trips to Anfield - the 12.30 KO are my least favourite... and the 7.45 evening KO my best.

There is still a magic about Anfield, and in recent times it feels like a dark cloud has been lifted. The club is moving forward in all aspects. As I get to be in all the stands - being in any part of the KOP is the loudest. Annie Rd is 2nd, then its followed by the main stand. Kenny stand is the quietest I think - but its so hard to compare - as every game is different.

Today at Bournemouth, I had tears of joy and relief - when Mane scored what was the winner. I couldn't bear another defeat or even a draw today.... it meant that much.... I gave everything I had ----- but I would have had a lot more if the KO was a little later.
 

Billy Biskix

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The atmosphere at Anfield right now is as good as its been for years. The idea that Anfield was always rocking in the good old days of the seventies and eighties is a myth. Maybe it was in the sixties but by the seventies there were plenty of games when the atmosphere was flat. Not every game was St Etienne. By the eighties Anfield was often half empty for league games against the equivalent of the Bournemouth team we played today. From memory when I first started going to Anfield only the Kop sung. I really don't remember chants ringing round the ground in the way they do now.

The big difference for me between then and now is how the crowd reacts when we are losing. Back then the crowd was at its best when we were behind. Getting on the back of the opposition and the officials. I love it when Anfield is angry because it is genuinely intimidating when it is but you don't get that much now. Now the reaction is more nervous and nerves are contagious. Still at least it's better than it was pre-Klopp when the crowd just got on our own players backs.

I was listening to a podcast recently and an older match-goer said that the Anfield crowd had become a parody of itself, but in a good way and I think that's right. It's become a performance but its one everyone wants to be a part of, even those much derided tourists. The atmosphere has probably dipped a bit this season but then the season has been such a stroll. I genuinely can't remember a better season for Anfield atmosphere than 18/19. Some electric moments with the whole stadium rocking which I won't forget in a hurry.
 

epsomred

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The atmosphere at Anfield right now is as good as its been for years. The idea that Anfield was always rocking in the good old days of the seventies and eighties is a myth. Maybe it was in the sixties but by the seventies there were plenty of games when the atmosphere was flat. Not every game was St Etienne. By the eighties Anfield was often half empty for league games against the equivalent of the Bournemouth team we played today. From memory when I first started going to Anfield only the Kop sung. I really don't remember chants ringing round the ground in the way they do now.

The big difference for me between then and now is how the crowd reacts when we are losing. Back then the crowd was at its best when we were behind. Getting on the back of the opposition and the officials. I love it when Anfield is angry because it is genuinely intimidating when it is but you don't get that much now. Now the reaction is more nervous and nerves are contagious. Still at least it's better than it was pre-Klopp when the crowd just got on our own players backs.

I was listening to a podcast recently and an older match-goer said that the Anfield crowd had become a parody of itself, but in a good way and I think that's right. It's become a performance but its one everyone wants to be a part of, even those much derided tourists. The atmosphere has probably dipped a bit this season but then the season has been such a stroll. I genuinely can't remember a better season for Anfield atmosphere than 18/19. Some electric moments with the whole stadium rocking which I won't forget in a hurry.
I think it was better back in the 80s and 90s but that may be rosy tinted spectacles of nostalgia. I agree that we used to get more angry and this had been replaced by nervousness. The crowd seem to lack confidence these days.
 

peter roberts

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I find it a bit odd to read a post like this now when the atmosphere is better than most of us can remember in a long time. From the day the seats were installed we all knew Anfield would never be the seething , loud mass of humanity it once was. The first time I went after the seating I was shocked at just how quiet it was but to criticise it now is just bizarre. When it comes to the crunch and we have truly competitive games (not just European nights) the crowd is there right behind the team. Maybe there are some who will forever be doubters no matter what , but I'm firmly in the other camp.
 

epsomred

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If everyone who complained about the atmosphere made some noise there wouldn’t be a problem.
Good point but it’s not that simple. Lots of lads who would sing are priced out of buying tickets and their places are taken by people filming the corners then filming the crowd then leaving early to avoid the traffic. It’s not a tourists versus locals thing though, some of the best supporters are the fans who spend £00s flying in from Norway, Ireland etc and really make the most of their visit.

I think it’s a change in how people consume sport these days and the rise of the social media obsessed generation. If we confiscated everybody’s phone on the way in then we would have a cracking atmosphere.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Isn't this just a "everything was better in my day" middle aged thing? Get it in all walks of life people (particularly men) sitting around moaning about how things aren't as good as they used to be. Meanwhile them sitting round doing that moaning isn't helping as @Mascot88 points out. Meanwhile we are recognised by most real neutrals as a famous atmosphere within the modern game. Obviously there will be differences between late v early kick offs, meaningful v meaningless games, when we are playing well v when we have had a run of games when we have played poorly etc.! But I know even yesterday with all that going on and some nervy quieter moments there were still neutrals pointing out how wonderful the atmosphere was as the game got going and when it mattered.
 

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Good point but it’s not that simple. Lots of lads who would sing are priced out of buying tickets and their places are taken by people filming the corners then filming the crowd then leaving early to avoid the traffic. It’s not a tourists versus locals thing though, some of the best supporters are the fans who spend £00s flying in from Norway, Ireland etc and really make the most of their visit.

I think it’s a change in how people consume sport these days and the rise of the social media obsessed generation. If we confiscated everybody’s phone on the way in then we would have a cracking atmosphere.
I think the real issue is ticketing. The days of the ‘famous atmosphere’ was when you could walk up to the ground without a ticket, pay a fiver, and stand on the Kop. This meant that mates could stand together and you’d get more songs starting with less of the social inhibition you have standing with strangers. And I think the demographics are an issue as well, as the Anfield crowd is pretty old.

To be honest, I think the club need to nuke to ticketing system. Year zero approach. Too many tickets being scalped for hundreds of pounds. Too many chancers getting in week in week out in the name of someone who died in 1976. Too many old farts clinging on to season tickets because they’re scared of letting them go.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Doesn't travel to games because of the perceived stadium atmosphere. Turns down free tickets because VAR.

I'm not sure the problem here is an external one.
Missed the "sits and moans about FSG not running the club in the way Simon Jordan believes is best" and "sits and moans about our terrible transfer strategy" too.
 

ILLOK

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These threads never end well, with people getting upset over perceived criticisms of them.

What I will say is the ground hasn't been particularly nervous at any game I've been to this season and I haven't noticed the opposition goalkeepers not getting clapped.

A lot of people who have had season tickets for years but never went have reclaimed them for this season now that we're good again. That might be a factor.

Otherwise, it's not worth bothering about. The discussion has been going on for years and the one major factor involved in improving our atmosphere has been Jurgen Klopp. To improve the atmosphere we need safe standing, be able to drink in the stands and like minded people need to be sat together rather than spread out across the stadium. Nothing else will make much of a difference at this point.
 

epsomred

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Missed the "sits and moans about FSG not running the club in the way Simon Jordan believes is best" and "sits and moans about our terrible transfer strategy" too.
Ha Ha Its all true apart from the Simon Jordan reference (I said I liked his book and was called a Tory as a result) and I have never criticised FSG . You missed out the fact that I predicted at least eighteen months ago that Jeremy Corbyn would be a disaster for the Labour party, I don't believe there is a big FA/Sky conspiracy to stop us winning the league and I think Keita is the biggest transfer fuck up this club has ever made. All of these beliefs have made me unpopular on here (and one nearly got me banned) but I thought that was the point of forums; to respectfully discuss and debate things with complete strangers. Most of us are heading for the list of banned former posters, I'm just running faster than you.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Ha Ha Its all true apart from the Simon Jordan reference (I said I liked his book and was called a Tory as a result) and I have never criticised FSG . You missed out the fact that I predicted at least eighteen months ago that Jeremy Corbyn would be a disaster for the Labour party, I don't believe there is a big FA/Sky conspiracy to stop us winning the league and I think Keita is the biggest transfer fuck up this club has ever made. All of these beliefs have made me unpopular on here (and one nearly got me banned) but I thought that was the point of forums; to respectfully discuss and debate things with complete strangers. Most of us are heading for the list of banned former posters, I'm just running faster than you.
Keita a worse signing than Andy Carroll? Not even as bad as Downing! Yeah Simon Jordan's book, his side on how things work, an idiot who got lucky on the explosion of mobile phone industry and bought a financial mess of a club, kept it a chaotic, expensive, financial mess of a club and been dining out on his fame for that role ever since. Gillette and Hicks have more proven pedigree and more qualified insight into making opinions about how to own and run a sports club. And you definitely shouldn't listen to them either.
 

epsomred

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I think the real issue is ticketing. The days of the ‘famous atmosphere’ was when you could walk up to the ground without a ticket, pay a fiver, and stand on the Kop. This meant that mates could stand together and you’d get more songs starting with less of the social inhibition you have standing with strangers. And I think the demographics are an issue as well, as the Anfield crowd is pretty old.

To be honest, I think the club need to nuke to ticketing system. Year zero approach. Too many tickets being scalped for hundreds of pounds. Too many chancers getting in week in week out in the name of someone who died in 1976. Too many old farts clinging on to season tickets because they’re scared of letting them go.
Good point. The club could usefully have an audit where people renewing their season ticket had to prove their identify. It would weed out all the touts and travel agents at a stroke and would be a small step towards improving the atmosphere.
 

epsomred

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Keita a worse signing than Andy Carroll? Not even as bad as Downing! Yeah Simon Jordan's book, his side on how things work, an idiot who got lucky on the explosion of mobile phone industry and bought a financial mess of a club, kept it a chaotic, expensive, financial mess of a club and been dining out on his fame for that role ever since. Gillette and Hicks have more proven pedigree and more qualified insight into making opinions about how to own and run a sports club. And you definitely shouldn't listen to them either.
We are taking this thread massively off topic but It seems to be a common fallacy that if you like somebody’s book you must like them as a person. I can’t stand Robbie Williams but his first autobiography is an absolute corker of a read if you like reading about dislikable boy band pop stars having slow motion personality car crashes. He probably is the most narcissistic and damaged person I’ve ever read about. It’s a brilliant and unintentionally fascinating book about personality disorder.

When it comes to Simon Jordan I have a dog in this particular fight as was in the same class at school and reasonably freindly with the current Palace owner Steve Parish. Little Steve (he’s very short ) was a nice enough bloke as I recall but had no obvious academic or business ability and left school at 18 to work as a labourer on building sites in London. Needless to say his subsequent multi million pound success has come as a bit of a surprise to the rest of his classmates. Simon has no time for Steve so it always makes some of us feel better at school reunions to see the latter being criticised by the former. It’s petty and childish but hey what are you gonna do ? It doesn't mean I like Simon Jordan.
 

Billy Biskix

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Good point but it’s not that simple. Lots of lads who would sing are priced out of buying tickets and their places are taken by people filming the corners then filming the crowd then leaving early to avoid the traffic. It’s not a tourists versus locals thing though, some of the best supporters are the fans who spend £00s flying in from Norway, Ireland etc and really make the most of their visit.

I think it’s a change in how people consume sport these days and the rise of the social media obsessed generation. If we confiscated everybody’s phone on the way in then we would have a cracking atmosphere.
The club have done their bit to get local lads who would sing into the ground. They introduced a £9 ticket for all those with an L post code. What happened? They are now heavily touted. There was an example on this forum of someone who went to Anfield and paid £140 for one of the £9 tickets.

Match tickets now are a valuable commodity and people are cashing in. This season there has been a big rise in the number of people you see with either member or season ticket cards who can't operate the turnstiles or who are wandering about being helped to their seat (the one they've allegedly been sat in all season) by a steward. Again the club are doing something about this now with the Fan Update scheme. This is the first attempt at linking proof of ID to both membership and season ticket holders. Long overdue and it has already weeded out bogus membership cards resulting in an increase in available seats for the late members sales. There's a new ticketing system coming in for next season too. Hopefully one that is not as easily infested by organised touting as the current one is.
 

epsomred

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The club have done their bit to get local lads who would sing into the ground. They introduced a £9 ticket for all those with an L post code. What happened? They are now heavily touted. There was an example on this forum of someone who went to Anfield and paid £140 for one of the £9 tickets.

Match tickets now are a valuable commodity and people are cashing in. This season there has been a big rise in the number of people you see with either member or season ticket cards who can't operate the turnstiles or who are wandering about being helped to their seat (the one they've allegedly been sat in all season) by a steward. Again the club are doing something about this now with the Fan Update scheme. This is the first attempt at linking proof of ID to both membership and season ticket holders. Long overdue and it has already weeded out bogus membership cards resulting in an increase in available seats for the late members sales. There's a new ticketing system coming in for next season too. Hopefully one that is not as easily infested by organised touting as the current one is.
Touting seems to be endemic in sport and music and almost impossible to stop. I have a theory that the clubs should try to counter it by auctioning off a block of tickets (say 1,000) for every game and donating the profits above face value to local community groups around the ground. The auction could close at midnight before the game so people could plan their travel and fans buying these special auction tickets would have to prove their ID when they collect them. This auction would basically act as a rival to the ticket touts but make sure that the profits stay within the community. People are always going to pay inflated prices for big games (I hear talk of tickets for the Palace league winning match (hopefully) being sold for £1k plus each) . At least this way, the local community would benefit.
 

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When we we close to winning the league in 13/14 I speculatively checked out what the tickets for the Chelsea and Newcastle games we’re going for on the second hand sites. Anywhere between 800 and 1500 quid was the range.

There are lads in Liverpool area who are going to be making a big decision about how much seeing Liverpool win the league is actually worth, and getting over a grand for a ticket is obviously going to be tempting.

Love your auction idea - if people are willing to pay hundreds for a ticket, then let’s make sure the community benefit and not the scalpers. The sooner tickets are linked to ID the better.
 

Magnus

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Ha Ha Its all true apart from the Simon Jordan reference (I said I liked his book and was called a Tory as a result) and I have never criticised FSG . You missed out the fact that I predicted at least eighteen months ago that Jeremy Corbyn would be a disaster for the Labour party, I don't believe there is a big FA/Sky conspiracy to stop us winning the league and I think Keita is the biggest transfer fuck up this club has ever made. All of these beliefs have made me unpopular on here (and one nearly got me banned) but I thought that was the point of forums; to respectfully discuss and debate things with complete strangers. Most of us are heading for the list of banned former posters, I'm just running faster than you.
I agree about the stupid conspiracy theory, that is after all pretty silly, but sadly typical of fans of every club in the world (I have never understood it, but I have noticed that it is the same on every football forum, so that wierd thinking is of course in this one too).
But I would argue that with Keita we just don't know yet. We have seen him play 4-5 very good games in a row, then get injured, then play consistently average or even bad (for Liverpool's level). The same is also true with our Swiss guy, lovingly called Powercube, who many kept hyping up much prematurely. I think the problem with both of them is that their physique have not yet adapted to the tempo in the Premier League. I would give them both another pre-season unless we get good offers for them, in which case I would sell. But an injury free pre-season may or may not turn them into very good players. Both have shown a pretty high top level.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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There is no conspiracy against Liverpool and never has been. But as I argued in that thread Merseyside and LFC as a team is/was turned into pantomime villains across the country in the 80s and 90s by not only the government itself but the police authority, the FA and one of the most influential media arms. As such during the years it was frequently pointed out how, of all the teams in the league, we constantly would come up as the most (or one of the most) hard done by teams on those human errors during a season. Far from the usual "big team advantage" effect big teams usually benefit from it was usually the opposite most seasons during the Premier League era. In Europe all English teams seemed not to get the rub of the green but yet again we would frequently seem to be harshest done too. Both seasons we finished 2nd in the league in recent years and the Champions League final we lost were all littered with important decisions that went against us, things not seen or let go against us as officials not 100% sure yet things called against us that when officials couldn't be 100% sure as they were arguable calls or flat out wrong. Fast forward. UEFA puts VAR in to take out 90% of error caused by human ill judgement and we win the CL. Premier League puts a VAR in of debatable efficiency that takes out about 70% of error caused by human ill judgement and we are running ten points better than we were doing last year but not seemingly playing better. Other fans are even calling us LiVARpool even though we've not much actually changed for our benefit, maybe, subconsciously, they are preprogrammed into expecting to see us get the shitty end of things so now they're angry we aren't and can't really understand what they're angry at?
 

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When we we close to winning the league in 13/14 I speculatively checked out what the tickets for the Chelsea and Newcastle games we’re going for on the second hand sites. Anywhere between 800 and 1500 quid was the range.

There are lads in Liverpool area who are going to be making a big decision about how much seeing Liverpool win the league is actually worth, and getting over a grand for a ticket is obviously going to be tempting.

Love your auction idea - if people are willing to pay hundreds for a ticket, then let’s make sure the community benefit and not the scalpers. The sooner tickets are linked to ID the better.
It's coming.
 

epsomred

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There is no conspiracy against Liverpool and never has been. But as I argued in that thread Merseyside and LFC as a team is/was turned into pantomime villains across the country in the 80s and 90s by not only the government itself but the police authority, the FA and one of the most influential media arms. As such during the years it was frequently pointed out how, of all the teams in the league, we constantly would come up as the most (or one of the most) hard done by teams on those human errors during a season. Far from the usual "big team advantage" effect big teams usually benefit from it was usually the opposite most seasons during the Premier League era. In Europe all English teams seemed not to get the rub of the green but yet again we would frequently seem to be harshest done too. Both seasons we finished 2nd in the league in recent years and the Champions League final we lost were all littered with important decisions that went against us, things not seen or let go against us as officials not 100% sure yet things called against us that when officials couldn't be 100% sure as they were arguable calls or flat out wrong. Fast forward. UEFA puts VAR in to take out 90% of error caused by human ill judgement and we win the CL. Premier League puts a VAR in of debatable efficiency that takes out about 70% of error caused by human ill judgement and we are running ten points better than we were doing last year but not seemingly playing better. Other fans are even calling us LiVARpool even though we've not much actually changed for our benefit, maybe, subconsciously, they are preprogrammed into expecting to see us get the shitty end of things so now they're angry we aren't and can't really understand what they're angry at?
Well you could reopen the infamous thread but I don’t think the mods will thank you for it. Like Alice, I’m not going back down that rabbit hole again.
 

epsomred

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I agree about the stupid conspiracy theory, that is after all pretty silly, but sadly typical of fans of every club in the world (I have never understood it, but I have noticed that it is the same on every football forum, so that wierd thinking is of course in this one too).
But I would argue that with Keita we just don't know yet. We have seen him play 4-5 very good games in a row, then get injured, then play consistently average or even bad (for Liverpool's level). The same is also true with our Swiss guy, lovingly called Powercube, who many kept hyping up much prematurely. I think the problem with both of them is that their physique have not yet adapted to the tempo in the Premier League. I would give them both another pre-season unless we get good offers for them, in which case I would sell. But an injury free pre-season may or may not turn them into very good players. Both have shown a pretty high top level.
I think there’s a separate thread for Keita but it was suspended when it was thought his brother had died in a coach crash.
 

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Sure, my post was possibly OTT, and my apologies for that, but I just wanted to give my opinion on what you yourself brought up in your post.