Who would you buy?

Limiescouse

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So instead of pointing at his career and wondering if he's ever been a flop maybe we should look at who has signed him? 3 of the club's at the very top of their game when it comes to signing unheralded players.
He wasnt unheralded at the time he went to Atletico, in fact it was considered quite a surprise that he signed for them rather than someone richer, he just didnt cut it there. He was unheralded by the time he arrived on loan at Southampton though as by that time he had the label of "well, Simone doesnt rate him, and he knows defenders..."
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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He wasnt unheralded at the time he went to Atletico, in fact it was considered quite a surprise that he signed for them rather than someone richer, he just didnt cut it there. He was unheralded by the time he arrived on loan at Southampton though as by that time he had the label of "well, Simone doesnt rate him, and he knows defenders..."
Disagree with that as I was arguing that we should sign him at the time as a replacement to Skrtel and most wanted someone more proven basically.
 

Limiescouse

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Disagree with that as I was arguing that we should sign him at the time as a replacement to Skrtel and most wanted someone more proven basically.
I assume you are talking about when he was at Ajax, and if so that supports my point. You, a bloke on the internet, thought he would be a good signing to replace our then first choice CB. I was not posting here then, btut I do recall it being an opinion that had a good sized constituency. That is not an unheralded player you can give a club credit for identifying.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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I assume you are talking about when he was at Ajax, and if so that supports my point. You, a bloke on the internet, thought he would be a good signing to replace our then first choice CB. I was not posting here then, btut I do recall it being an opinion that had a good sized constituency. That is not an unheralded player you can give a club credit for identifying.
Sorry to disagree again but a young CB from Holland moving to a cash strapped Spanish side as their back up defender for €7 million (if all targets were reached which was unlikely) doesn't scream out heralded to me. He was 24 and had been starting in the Champions League for Ajax. We paid similar or more for Ilori and Coates around then or earlier and 20 million for Sakho (a LCB when we needed a RCB) that summer. Your definition of heralded must be different to mine.
 

Semmy

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Sorry to disagree again but a young CB from Holland moving to a cash strapped Spanish side as their back up defender for €7 million (if all targets were reached which was unlikely) doesn't scream out heralded to me. He was 24 and had been starting in the Champions League for Ajax. We paid similar or more for Ilori and Coates around then or earlier and 20 million for Sakho (a LCB when we needed a RCB) that summer. Your definition of heralded must be different to mine.
That last bit...we haven't had a proper left-footed CB since Agger left. We have had lots of RCB. Skrtel, Toure both right-footed. We needed a LCB and Sakho filled that role well until he pissed off the gaffer
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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That last bit...we haven't had a proper left-footed CB since Agger left. We have had lots of RCB. Skrtel, Toure both right-footed. We needed a LCB and Sakho filled that role well until he pissed off the gaffer
We still had Agger at that point who was perfectly fine as a starting LCB. Skrtel was shockingly bad as our starting RCB. That summer A Madrid bought Alderweireld we had already bought Ilori and Sakho for £27 million and Alderweireld was sold for less than €7 million at the very end of the window. I really wanted us to sign him because I saw great potential there but even Ajax fans weren't as convinced as me in the conversations I had. Certainly wasn't getting a lot of agreement from Liverpool fans who didn't think he was worth the risk. A lot pointing out how disappointing Anita had been going to Newcastle the year before and not believing Toby was even as technical as him. It was also the summer Lovren went to Southampton although I thought he should have been targeted more as a squad player. I actually wanted two of Alderweireld, Lovren and Sakho and wanted two of them brought in along with Agger as our vice captain starting when fit. We ended up with one of them, the most expensive and the one I was most sure on ability wise but also the one we needed the least. We then had a really awkward season of Sakho and Agger sharing a position, both being good but Skrtel playing all the time and not. Spent the whole year debating if Agger or Sakho could play RCB only for Agger to then leave a season or two earlier than really needed to.
 

Semmy

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We still had Agger at that point who was perfectly fine as a starting LCB. Skrtel was shockingly bad as our starting RCB. That summer A Madrid bought Alderweireld we had already bought Ilori and Sakho for £27 million and Alderweireld was sold for less than €7 million at the very end of the window. I really wanted us to sign him because I saw great potential there but even Ajax fans weren't as convinced as me in the conversations I had. Certainly wasn't getting a lot of agreement from Liverpool fans who didn't think he was worth the risk. A lot pointing out how disappointing Anita had been going to Newcastle the year before and not believing Toby was even as technical as him. It was also the summer Lovren went to Southampton although I thought he should have been targeted more as a squad player. I actually wanted two of Alderweireld, Lovren and Sakho and wanted two of them brought in along with Agger as our vice captain starting when fit. We ended up with one of them, the most expensive and the one I was most sure on ability wise but also the one we needed the least. We then had a really awkward season of Sakho and Agger sharing a position, both being good but Skrtel playing all the time and not. Spent the whole year debating if Agger or Sakho could play RCB only for Agger to then leave a season or two earlier than really needed to.
not sure what your point is here.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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not sure what your point is here.
Me and Limiescouse were debating whether Alderweireld was an under the radar signing when he moved to A Madrid. May have failed to notice that it was you that made the last reply not him as was half way through the night I replied to you lol

But to answer your original reply we didn't NEED to buy Sakho when we did, we still had Agger and could have used him as our main starter for another season or two before going for another left footer/LCB. Obviously it's good to have to have two LCBs and two RCBs but when the two on the left are starting quality and can't play at same time whilst none on the right are good enough to start it's a problem. There were lots of problems with our recruitment back then. There was no joined up thinking. We entered that window with Carra and Agger our parternership, Skrtel (as first back up) out in the cold having been dropped and Coates as cover. We lost Carra to retirement and needed a replacement. We brought in 3 CBs and none of them could partner Agger as our starting partnership. I liked Sakho and was happy we signed him but it was a strange situation.
 

redfanman

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That Greek lad had been our choice for CB but he did his knee before the deal was finalised. I think he played on the right.

Presumably there were doubts about Agger's ability to continue as a starter and seeing a chance to snap up a highly promising CB took it.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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Me and Limiescouse were debating whether Alderweireld was an under the radar signing when he moved to A Madrid. May have failed to notice that it was you that made the last reply not him as was half way through the night I replied to you lol

But to answer your original reply we didn't NEED to buy Sakho when we did, we still had Agger and could have used him as our main starter for another season or two before going for another left footer/LCB. Obviously it's good to have to have two LCBs and two RCBs but when the two on the left are starting quality and can't play at same time whilst none on the right are good enough to start it's a problem. There were lots of problems with our recruitment back then. There was no joined up thinking. We entered that window with Carra and Agger our parternership, Skrtel (as first back up) out in the cold having been dropped and Coates as cover. We lost Carra to retirement and needed a replacement. We brought in 3 CBs and none of them could partner Agger as our starting partnership. I liked Sakho and was happy we signed him but it was a strange situation.
Considering what came out after he'd left about Agger's alarming condition due to years of taking huge quantities of painkillers just to step on the pitch (to the point that there were games where he barely knew where he was), I don't think it's too crazy to suggest the club was actively looking to replace him (hence Sakho, another LCB) rather than partner him up.

Love Dagger as much as the next man (possibly more), but by then even beyond the injuries themselves he was barely functioning.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Considering what came out after he'd left about Agger's alarming condition due to years of taking huge quantities of painkillers just to step on the pitch (to the point that there were games where he barely knew where he was), I don't think it's too crazy to suggest the club was actively looking to replace him (hence Sakho, another LCB) rather than partner him up.

Love Dagger as much as the next man (possibly more), but by then even beyond the injuries themselves he was barely functioning.
Yeah I don't think it's a crazy suggestion but think you are giving the club (and the chaos that was our recruitment back then) too much credit. As @redfanman said we were going for the Greek lad as a Skrtel replacement first and foremost. Rodgers also wanted Williams who plays on the left. Committee seemed to bring in Sakho instead for a lot more money, Ilori for the cost of Lovren or Alderweireld and Toure on a free. For the money we spent on 3 CBs we could have easily brought in Lovren and Alderweireld with plenty left over (nearly half what we spent). That would have allowed us to sell Skrtel and provide cover for Agger but by selling Skrtel we could have picked up Williams or Sakho too. We went from Carra, Agger, Skrtel and Coates to Skrtel, Agger, Sakho, Toure and Ilori. Could have easily been Alderweireld, Agger, Lovren, Williams/Sakho. Our recruitment back then was awful with both Rodgers (unambitious and mostly prem known) and the committee (ignoring some decent options and over paying for "hidden" gems) making some shockingly bad calls back then and no structure or joined up thinking.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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Yeah I don't think it's a crazy suggestion but think you are giving the club (and the chaos that was our recruitment back then) too much credit. As @redfanman said we were going for the Greek lad as a Skrtel replacement first and foremost. Rodgers also wanted Williams who plays on the left. Committee seemed to bring in Sakho instead for a lot more money, Ilori for the cost of Lovren or Alderweireld and Toure on a free. For the money we spent on 3 CBs we could have easily brought in Lovren and Alderweireld with plenty left over (nearly half what we spent). That would have allowed us to sell Skrtel and provide cover for Agger but by selling Skrtel we could have picked up Williams or Sakho too. We went from Carra, Agger, Skrtel and Coates to Skrtel, Agger, Sakho, Toure and Ilori. Could have easily been Alderweireld, Agger, Lovren, Williams/Sakho. Our recruitment back then was awful with both Rodgers (unambitious and mostly prem known) and the committee (ignoring some decent options and over paying for "hidden" gems) making some shockingly bad calls back then and no structure or joined up thinking.
Agree the whole set up was hideously dysfunctional (though think on balance the committee made few mistakes when it came to signings). The joined-up thinking we're seeing under Klopp is like night and day compared to those days.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Agree the whole set up was hideously dysfunctional (though think on balance the committee made few mistakes when it came to signings). The joined-up thinking we're seeing under Klopp is like night and day compared to those days.
Dont think they can be excused too much. Signings like Ilori for the price Madrid bought Alderweireld for or persuading Rodgers not to go for Eriksen because he didn't tackle enough and they could get him Mkhitaryan instead. Only to then try for Costa and end up with Moses on loan. Lots the committee did wrong without the specific deal in question being awful. If that makes sense?
 

Quagmire81

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Considering what came out after he'd left about Agger's alarming condition due to years of taking huge quantities of painkillers just to step on the pitch (to the point that there were games where he barely knew where he was), I don't think it's too crazy to suggest the club was actively looking to replace him (hence Sakho, another LCB) rather than partner him up.

Love Dagger as much as the next man (possibly more), but by then even beyond the injuries themselves he was barely functioning.
Excuse me but when the heck was that?

He was always solid when playing, played through pain for our sake, he literally gave up his body for us* even after he left us he continued to be class (yes I watched all his games, unless it overlapped with Lfc games) but he had to listen to his body in the end. It was wrecked in the end but he never played a clueless game as you suggest, never.

*and that prick Rodgers had the nerve to tell him his not good enough and tossed him to the side for Sakho's sake! a player who couldn't tie Agger's shoeslaces when it come to intigrety and respect for this great club... Sakho also ruin a european win for us by taking questionable "supplement" that he was pressured into using by Rodgers by telling him he was too fat, remember that shit? anyways, Agger is in essense simply a good person and was a hell of a player and good ambassador for Lfc and football in gerneral.
 
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Anfield rd Dreamer

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Excuse me but when the heck was that?

He was always solid when playing, played through pain for our sake, he literally gave up his body for us, even after he left us he continued to be class (yes I watched all his games, unless it overlapped with Lfc games) but he had to listen to his body in the end. It was wrecked in the end but he never played a clueless game as you suggest, never.
He was frequently made to look bad by Skrtel vacating space leaving him to try and make up ground AND put in challenges when/if he got there in time. Maybe that's what he's remembering? But yes two Aggers at CB would be a world class defence perfect for Klopps way of playing.
 

Limiescouse

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Excuse me but when the heck was that?

He was always solid when playing, played through pain for our sake, he literally gave up his body for us* even after he left us he continued to be class (yes I watched all his games, unless it overlapped with Lfc games) but he had to listen to his body in the end. It was wrecked in the end but he never played a clueless game as you suggest, never.

*and that prick Rodgers had the nerve to tell him his not good enough and tossed him to the side for Sakho's sake! a player who couldn't tie Agger's shoeslaces when it come to intigrety and respect for this great club... Rant over.
From his own words. He has described playing in games that even shortly after he does not remember playing in. He was a wreck by the time he left us, which was why his time at Brondy was so disappointing
 

Klopptinho

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From his own words. He has described playing in games that even shortly after he does not remember playing in. He was a wreck by the time he left us, which was why his time at Brondy was so disappointing
i saw some on here advocating bringing him back during his time at brondby saying we should never have let him go lol he wasn't quite as bad as sturridge with injuries but i always felt he was a step away from one . good player but perhaps one that didn't ever fulfil his potential due to injuries .
 

Quagmire81

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From his own words. He has described playing in games that even shortly after he does not remember playing in. He was a wreck by the time he left us, which was why his time at Brondy was so disappointing
Nah his time with brøndby was disappointing (result wise) cause it was at that time a shit side with a shit coach and a new "owner" who wanted to force a tranforming phase and Agger was part of that strategy and now they're a favorites to win the Championship for the first time in 13 years. Sorry but you can't school me on Brøndby mate, their my local team you know ;-)
 

ILLOK

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Agger left at the right time but I don't think it's much of a coincidence our record with him in 13/14 was exceptional. Our defence always looked calmer and more organised with him in it, even if it was obvious he wasn't quite the same player he used to be.
 



Quagmire81

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Disagree with that as I was arguing that we should sign him at the time as a replacement to Skrtel and most wanted someone more proven basically.
Wasn't it always Vertonghen that was hailed as the better one of the two in Ajax and everybody was chasing?

It's funny that Alderweired "flopped" with a new partner but suddenly found himself once reunited with Vertonghen. Maybe It's like Skrtel and Agger with these two's. Skrtel was pretty horrific when he was partnered with someone else than Agger.

I dunno. Maybe it's Vertonghen that's the real deal in this or they just complement each other to perfection.
 

Klopptinho

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Wasn't it always Vertonghen that was hailed as the better one of the two in Ajax and everybody was chasing?

It's funny that Alderweired "flopped" with a new partner but suddenly found himself once reunited with Vertonghen. Maybe It's like Skrtel and Agger with these two's. Skrtel was pretty horrific when he was partnered with someone else than Agger.

I dunno. Maybe it's Vertonghen that's the real deal in this or they just complement each other to perfection.
henchoz and sami then carra and sami - some players make other players better . i doubt carra would have turned out to be the same player had he played along side skrtel all his career or phil babb .
 

Quagmire81

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henchoz and sami then carra and sami - some players make other players better . i doubt carra would have turned out to be the same player had he played along side skrtel all his career or phil babb .
Yes it's that unknown unseen telephatic like link between two players that is magic and so valueable in football. Carra was never the top of the crops in abilities or potential but somehow he manage to do so great cause he could complement his partners to perfection, him accepting what he is good at and what his partners was good at and complement it too perfection. For example he pretty much always gave the build up phase responsibilities to his partners cause he knew they were better at it, Reina knew too and always gave to ball to Agger remember.
 

Limiescouse

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Sorry but you can't school me on Brøndby mate, their my local team you know ;-)
Well maybe then you should be aware of the stories of agger taking about how there were times at that stage of his career where he literally did not know where he was. What their status as a team is now is irrelevant, as is even how good they were as a side at the time. We were talking about the physical deterioration of an individual player and how messed up he became in trying to treat the pain that resulted from those physical issues.
 
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redfanman

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Dont think they can be excused too much. Signings like Ilori for the price Madrid bought Alderweireld for or persuading Rodgers not to go for Eriksen because he didn't tackle enough and they could get him Mkhitaryan instead. Only to then try for Costa and end up with Moses on loan. Lots the committee did wrong without the specific deal in question being awful. If that makes sense?
Who persuaded Rodgers on Eriksen? Fro. What I remember he watched him live several times and I was left under the impression it was his decision.