Who would you buy?

Red over the water

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
3,195
How contractually locked down is Phil Foden? He’s their big hope for the future, home grown, very good player already, but that’s such a hard team to break into when they can just go out and sign anyone they want, even for back up roles.

We are the team that looks most likely to take the fight to Man City in the Prem. It would be nice to extend that to player recruitment by taking Foden off their hands. He could be the attacking midfield sort of player we wanted Fekir to be.

They got Sterling from us. It might be nice to mark our emergence by taking a player from them that they very much do not want to lose.
 

The Elusive 19th

TIA Youth Team
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Messages
5,267
If we are letting go of Ings, Lallana and supposedly DS, Milner and Clyne (I prefer to keep these 3 with us), where do we stand on the home grown quota then for the league and also what happens to the CL homegrown quota. Wouldn't we be in trouble? Should we look at replacing these players with players who qualify as homegrown then? And pay English premium?
 

Richard88

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2017
Messages
604
If we are letting go of Ings, Lallana and supposedly DS, Milner and Clyne (I prefer to keep these 3 with us), where do we stand on the home grown quota then for the league and also what happens to the CL homegrown quota. Wouldn't we be in trouble? Should we look at replacing these players with players who qualify as homegrown then? And pay English premium?
First of all, it's not a question of "if" we let Ings go, given that it's a loan move with an "obligation" to buy at the end of the season. He's gone.

That said, the current squad situation regarding homegrown players is as outined below.

Firstly, the squad size as per Uefa rules is 21, plus 4 homegrown and 4 club-trained, as quoted in the Echo:

UEFA rules dictate two players must be goalkeepers, and at least eight places must go to locally trained players.
Locally trained players are either club-trained players who have been on Liverpool's books for three years between the ages of 15 and 21, or association-trained players whose careers spanned the same period at another English club.
No more than four association-trained players can be included in the eight local nominees on List A. And if a club can only field seven locally trained players, their squad size is reduced to 24 (or six down to 23, five to 22 and so on)."
Essentially, that means that the squad can be broken down as:
  • 17 non-homegrown players;
  • 4 who are association-trained;
  • 4 who are club-trained; and
  • An unlimited number of u21 players who have been at the club for 2+ years
------------------

The current state of the squad is as follows (ages in brackets):

Not homegrown or club-trained (maximum 17 allowed)
1. Alisson (26)
2. Mignolet (30)
3. Van Dijk (27)
4. Lovren (29)
5. Moreno (26)
6. Robertson (24)
7. Matip (27)
8. Fabinho (25)
9. Wijnaldum (27)
10. Keita (23)
11. Shaqiri (27)
12. Firmino (27)
13. Mané (26)
14. Salah (26)
15. Origi (23)

Association-trained
16. Clyne (27)
17. Milner (32)
18. Henderson (28)
19. Lallana (30)
20. Sturridge (29)
21. Solanke (21)

(Note: Neither Oxlade-Chamberlain (25) or Markovic (24) are included in this years Uefa CL squad, though 3 changes are permitted in January before the start of the CL knockouts).

Locally-trained
22. N/A
23. N/A
24. N/A
25. N/A

List B (i.e. Locally-trained, and born after January 1, 1997)
Trent, Gomez, Kelleher, Grabara, Phillips, Jones, Brewster (plus Wilson, Woodburn, Kent, etc going forwards)

(Note: "List B" = players born after January 1 1997 and have spent at least two uninterrupted years at Liverpool).
----------------

What to make of this?

First of all, it's hugely beneficial that Gomez and Trent are u21 and club-trained. Once they turn 21 they will both be on the "locally trained" list, which is a huge asset in terms of homegrown rules going forwards. Their status has already been hugely beneficial this year as it's allowed Klopp to include Origi and Solanke in the Uefa squad rather than leaving them out for European games entirely.

As a whole, the squad has only 15 (of a possible 17) foreign players, which leaves plenty of flexibility in terms of new signings. That is even more true given that Mignolet, Moreno, and Origi are all rumoured to be likely to move on soon, and their exits would mean that Liverpool would only have 12 foreign players on the list going forwards, thus leaving a possible 5 of 17 spaces open.

On the whole, the situation is clearly extremely good. That said, there are two important things to keep an eye on going forwards:

1. Firstly, most of the homegrown players are around 30 years old. Henderson (28) recently signed a 5 year extension until 2023, but the phasing out of the others appears to have been planned for, given that Clyne (27), Lallana (30) and Milner (32) have contracts that expire in June 2020, and Sturridge's (29) expires in 2019. The future of Solanke (21) in the squad isn't certain either, so long-term it appears as if only Henderson and Ox are certainties out of this group.

2. Secondly, most of the key players in the squad are around 25-27 years old, which is very healthy. However, only Robertson (24) and Keita (23) are under 25 years old (not including club-trained players or Origi who appears set to leave). There also isn't a single under-23 player on List A (i.e. homegrown/foreign). With that in mind, it is surely a priority going forwards to bring in young players to establish continuity long-term, and guard against a situation where the entire team declines at once.

Looking at the future...

The squad is clearly in a very healthy position, not only in terms of quality, but also in terms of both age profile and Uefa homegrown rules.

The makeup of the squad means that there is great flexibility in terms of new signings. That said, given the aging profile of the homegrown players (i.e. most of them are around 30), as well as the limited number of players under 25 (and no foreign players under 23), it must surely be a priority for the club to recruit one or two young players in the next couple of years - ideally homegrown.

So to answer the question in the quoted post above, if all the players mentioned were to leave (i.e. Clyne, Milner, Lallana, Sturridge, and Ings), and assuming that Gomez and Trent are 21 by the time the aforementioned players left, that would leave the makeup of homegrown/club-trained as what is listed below.

18. Henderson
19. Ox
20. Solanke
21. N/A
--
22. Gomez
23. Trent
24. n/a
25. n/a

The list above would be absolutely fine and wouldn't cause any problems whatsoever, even if there were 17 non-association trained players in the squad. It would however mean that once you have 17 players the next players to be added would have to be homegrown (to fill #21 in the list above) or replace one of the 17 foreign players like-for-like.

All-in-all, the squad is in great position, and there's a ton of flexibility going forwards so the club won't need to force any signings just to fulfil quotas, which will be useful in terms of avoiding that infamous "homegrown premium".
 
Last edited:

Zinedine Biscan

Spreading the word of St Igor
Moderator
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
24,266
Luis Suarez has come out and said Barca are setting about identifying his replacement.

He'll have been there five years come the end of the season, has ticked off that ambition and got it out of his system. He'll be 32 in January, but personally think he's still got it. He could play anywhere in our front line, but would be of particular value rotating with Bobby at the top of the attack.

Will have two years remaining on his contract in the summer.

Cheeky bid?
 

Iluvatar

Allez (x6)
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2015
Messages
9,000
Luis Suarez has come out and said Barca are setting about identifying his replacement.

He'll have been there five years come the end of the season, has ticked off that ambition and got it out of his system. He'll be 32 in January, but personally think he's still got it. He could play anywhere in our front line, but would be of particular value rotating with Bobby at the top of the attack.

Will have two years remaining on his contract in the summer.

Cheeky bid?
Id fucking love him back here! he's still got it as well.
 

ILLOK

In the Danger Zone.
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
16,918
Luis Suarez has come out and said Barca are setting about identifying his replacement.

He'll have been there five years come the end of the season, has ticked off that ambition and got it out of his system. He'll be 32 in January, but personally think he's still got it. He could play anywhere in our front line, but would be of particular value rotating with Bobby at the top of the attack.

Will have two years remaining on his contract in the summer.

Cheeky bid?
 

Zinedine Biscan

Spreading the word of St Igor
Moderator
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
24,266
He was absolutely sensational on the weekend against Real. there is no doubt he still has it, it just a question of how often he can show it at this stage.
Partly why I think it would be great to bring him in when we already have such strong players across the frontline, wouldn't need to play every week, but get him alongside two from Salah, Mane and Bobby... *drool*
 

vjcpatriot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
945
Suarez is likely not coming back. He might still have it but it's not good business to invest in 32 year old footballers that you might squeeze at best 1 or 2 more good years out of them.

Liverpool tends to invest in younger players who have their best years ahead of them or at least whom we will see their prime years, players like Mane, Salah, etc.

Here is a player to keep an eye on who might just be entering his peak. Sebastian Haller is a 24 year old French striker who stands among the top scorers in the Bundesliga with 6 goals and 5 assists.


The current Frankfurt striker also cuts an imposing figure at 6'3 and would make him another weapon for set pieces. He is strong in the air having won a league high 149 challenges last season.

If Liverpool continues to play 4-2-3-1, adding a premier striker and dropping Firmino back to the #10 slot or Shadow Striker would make sense for us.
 

Bonus

TIA New Signing
Ad-free Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2010
Messages
1,588
Suarez is likely not coming back. He might still have it but it's not good business to invest in 32 year old footballers that you might squeeze at best 1 or 2 more good years out of them.

Liverpool tends to invest in younger players who have their best years ahead of them or at least whom we will see their prime years, players like Mane, Salah, etc.

Here is a player to keep an eye on who might just be entering his peak. Sebastian Haller is a 24 year old French striker who stands among the top scorers in the Bundesliga with 6 goals and 5 assists.


The current Frankfurt striker also cuts an imposing figure at 6'3 and would make him another weapon for set pieces. He is strong in the air having won a league high 149 challenges last season.

If Liverpool continues to play 4-2-3-1, adding a premier striker and dropping Firmino back to the #10 slot or Shadow Striker would make sense for us.
Normally I would agree with you about signing a 32 yr old player,

But its Luis Suarez!
He aint no ordinary player.
And what a 1 or 2 good years they would be with him playing alongside Bobby, Salah or Mane, under the guidance of Klopp!

so its a yes from me....
 

Mascot88

Bootroom Member
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
23,802
I can’t see it happening.

He has two years left on his contract and Barca are going to want to keep him around even if they bring in a replacement this year.

I can imagine Barca being interested at £30-40m, but I don’t think we’d go near that.
 

Bonus

TIA New Signing
Ad-free Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2010
Messages
1,588
It’s a lot for a 32 year old though. I’d be all over it on a free, but Barca will want a decent sum for a player with two years left.
He's nearly 2 years younger than Ronaldo. if that helps sway you?

No harm in dreaming of resigning him tho, is there?
 

Nikola

"Oh, history writer, don't close the pages yet!"
Admin
Joined
May 17, 2007
Messages
19,135
He's nearly 2 years younger than Ronaldo. if that helps sway you?

No harm in dreaming of resigning him tho, is there?
Nowhere near as athletic, though. I'd take him on a free any day, I have to admit. His work ethic would be infectious. He does look a bit slower these days but Liverpool need to play all of their football in opponent's half, so... ;)
 

GermanRed

from doubters to believers to sky-high achievers
Joined
Jan 26, 2017
Messages
4,390
I can’t see it happening.

He has two years left on his contract and Barca are going to want to keep him around even if they bring in a replacement this year.

I can imagine Barca being interested at £30-40m, but I don’t think we’d go near that.
When it comes to sales Barca are known for doing stupid business. 31 year old David Villa to a direct opponent Atletico for just €2m comes to my mind.

Pedro - a player who won everything - at 28 for under £25m - bargain.

Wouldn’t surprise me if Suarez has a clause in his contract which can be activated in his final years. Or we have a buy back clause.
 
C

Caradoc

Guest
Get Sturridge firing properly again and bring back Suarez ..... that’s on helluva ‘Plan B’ ....... ! lol



Can’t see it happening though! :)
 

RedForever2014

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2014
Messages
3,976
Mostly agree but id delay the Sturridge departure and signing a Firmino back up for another 6/12 months if possible and concentrate on getting the other attacker for now. Get the best possible player for that role. That gives 18 months to 2 years for Brewster or one of our other lads to set themselves up as our back up to Firmino. Wouldn't make Sturridge leave at this time.
I like Sturridge, great lad to have around and a quality finisher. But the issue with Sturridge is that he's on £150k a week. It is the case that these days you've got to have at least 17 or 18 interchangeable players in order to compete, and you've got to be prepared to have players beyond your so called best 11 on similar money to best 11 players.

This is absolutely fine if those players can play every week if called on, say if the first choice for their role was injured long term, or even if they are being used regularly in rotation.

But until he proves otherwise over a longish period, Sturridge is a player who is very likely to be injured himself a bit of the time, probably not able to play week in week out if Bobby was out without risking injury himself, and IMO not really a player who is going to be rotated as much as you'd want from a player on £150k a week.

So to stay he'd have to accept a lower wage, and it's whether Sturridge wants to have one last big pay day somewhere else, with a big signing on fee as a Bosman and a salary beyond what I think we'd pay, or stay with us.

If he leaves and we don't sign a quality established striker, then next summer we could be effectively swapping an experienced international player, albeit one who can't be used as would be ideal, for an unproven younger player.

Developing young players has merit, we all want to see it, but it's a tough balancing act to be competitive enough to keep your better players happy, if you're accepting short term issues whilst a younger player develops.

This is part of a bigger picture that's going to be interesting to observe. Has the recent spending been a one-off splurge largely funded by selling Coutinho, and will similar spending only continue if we continue to sell big names?

Has it been to get to us to a certain level, from which any future activity will have to be self funding, and young players used to fill squad gaps?

Or are we going to see sustained investment to make us properly competitive year in year out?

We've only spent £100m net under Klopp, £33m a season, which is not a great deal, yet there is more to do as our squad is not complete by a long way.

We will have to replace any defensive backups that leave. Arguably two of our backups, Clyne and Moreno, aren't really usable at all.

We don't have similar level quality and playing style depth up front.

We don't know yet whether we have a creative midfielder in Keita, Shaqiri or Oxlade (whose level on his return is unknown), who can do it against the very best. To Illustrate the point, Klopp won't likely play Shaqiri later, but he would have played Coutinho with the front three if he was still here.

There is always more to do and our competitors will be doing it. If we think we can get by with this squad, without continued significant investment, we are mistaken.

We might do ok, but we won't win what we might do, if we don't continue spending and if we keep selling our best players.

Let's hope the club sees it that way.
 

Dave-D

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 10, 2014
Messages
3,703
Suarez would be amazing. Coming off the bench against a tired defence he’d destroy them and even if he has lost some pace those around him could make up for that.
 

SirBillShankly

We live in a fallen world.
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
10,843
Don't see Suarez happening. Would be wonderful to see him back though, still top drawer and a winner . I reckon we are more likely to see Brewster and Solanke breaking through.
 

Trader

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2017
Messages
370
Not sure if it's been mentioned before but the pairing of Insigne and Mertens have been absolutely ruthless for Napoli this season. I wouldn't mind either of them playing for us. Although not sure how old either of them are...
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
12,751
I like Sturridge, great lad to have around and a quality finisher. But the issue with Sturridge is that he's on £150k a week. It is the case that these days you've got to have at least 17 or 18 interchangeable players in order to compete, and you've got to be prepared to have players beyond your so called best 11 on similar money to best 11 players.

This is absolutely fine if those players can play every week if called on, say if the first choice for their role was injured long term, or even if they are being used regularly in rotation.

But until he proves otherwise over a longish period, Sturridge is a player who is very likely to be injured himself a bit of the time, probably not able to play week in week out if Bobby was out without risking injury himself, and IMO not really a player who is going to be rotated as much as you'd want from a player on £150k a week.

So to stay he'd have to accept a lower wage, and it's whether Sturridge wants to have one last big pay day somewhere else, with a big signing on fee as a Bosman and a salary beyond what I think we'd pay, or stay with us.

If he leaves and we don't sign a quality established striker, then next summer we could be effectively swapping an experienced international player, albeit one who can't be used as would be ideal, for an unproven younger player.

Developing young players has merit, we all want to see it, but it's a tough balancing act to be competitive enough to keep your better players happy, if you're accepting short term issues whilst a younger player develops.

This is part of a bigger picture that's going to be interesting to observe. Has the recent spending been a one-off splurge largely funded by selling Coutinho, and will similar spending only continue if we continue to sell big names?

Has it been to get to us to a certain level, from which any future activity will have to be self funding, and young players used to fill squad gaps?

Or are we going to see sustained investment to make us properly competitive year in year out?

We've only spent £100m net under Klopp, £33m a season, which is not a great deal, yet there is more to do as our squad is not complete by a long way.

We will have to replace any defensive backups that leave. Arguably two of our backups, Clyne and Moreno, aren't really usable at all.

We don't have similar level quality and playing style depth up front.

We don't know yet whether we have a creative midfielder in Keita, Shaqiri or Oxlade (whose level on his return is unknown), who can do it against the very best. To Illustrate the point, Klopp won't likely play Shaqiri later, but he would have played Coutinho with the front three if he was still here.

There is always more to do and our competitors will be doing it. If we think we can get by with this squad, without continued significant investment, we are mistaken.

We might do ok, but we won't win what we might do, if we don't continue spending and if we keep selling our best players.

Let's hope the club sees it that way.
I think you are missing some of our options at the moment. I think between Salah, Firmino, Sturridge, Solanke (to go on loan when Brewster is fit in my opinion) and Brewster as things stand. If Firmino was out for a bit I'd expect Brewster/Solanke to get a few games, Sturridge to play a bit more and Salah to play the rest with Shaqiri or someone covering on the wings. I think that's fine at CF for this season and maybe another 1 or 2 providing Sturridge is happy till we know what's going on with Brewster and Solanke with regards to developing potential. What I'd be more concerned with is having another great option on the wings allowing Shaqiri to be a creative presence more central more often and freeing up Salah as a CF option when needed/desired. As towards wages Sturridge hasn't signed a deal for years and our wage level has been creeping up. Pretty sure his deal (and most of our deals, especially then) was heavily weighted with clauses towards playing time and performances. If Sturridge is hitting them I'm happy for him to get his full wages as it would mean he'd be hitting playing time and goals whilst we would be winning. If not he'd be on his basic.
 

Dave-D

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 10, 2014
Messages
3,703
Not sure if it's been mentioned before but the pairing of Insigne and Mertens have been absolutely ruthless for Napoli this season. I wouldn't mind either of them playing for us. Although not sure how old either of them are...
Insigne is 27 but will be 28 come the start of next season so is in his prime.

Mertens is 31 which surprised me and will be 32 before the end of this season so I think what he would cost to much for someone of his age.
 

Zoran

Fighting like beavers.
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
18,894
Wouldn’t surprise me if Suarez has a clause in his contract which can be activated in his final years. Or we have a buy back clause.
Doubt it, the public would probably know that by now.