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Who would you buy?

C

Caradoc

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Sorry I'm confused are you trying to say no player at all is better than a player still integrating? Klopp has done all his business really cheaply. If a player that would cost 50 million in the summer is available for 65 or even 75 in the winter I'm fine with paying the extra if it means that player is good to go from day 1 of next season. They may be useful here or there till end of season too which would be a benefit but you're getting them ready for all of next season not just half of it. Don't you see the benefit? If Keita and Fabinho had come last winter and were firing on all cylinders and fully integrated within the squad by the start of this season we would probably be doing even better by now. They're still not fully integrated now and it's making our season hiccup.

Work it out for yourself. All of the information is there! :)
 


C

Caradoc

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Generally I agree, but I think if Klopp has the ability to steal a march on a signing he’ll take it. For example Rabiot is a free agent in the summer and likely to be coveted by a few clubs. If PSG are happy to be bunged £20m, and Rabiot is up for it, I can see him doing something like that.

But if it was Rabiot there would be no transfer fee. He signed Matip early. If in the case of Rabiot if it only takes a relatively small fee to bring him in even earlier why not? Its a question of using your common sense.

I was merely pointing out why January signings are not ideal generally, but perhaps even moreso in Klopp’s case. I clearly used the word ‘may’ and I did that for a very good reason. Unfortunately posters like ArD have to twist mere suggestions into definitive statements so that they can turn a perfectly innocent post into a reason for pedantry and smart-arsery.

I’ve said what I’ve said and it should be perfectly clear what I mean if posters actually read the words that I have used instead of selectively ignoring them or inserting imaginary words that I haven’t used. I do take your point, although I’m not sure why it needed saying. I’m going to leave it there. :)
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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No because you are entering the business end of the season and need players who will make a rapid difference whether that be added quality and/or cover in a key position. As a transfer window it is renowned for its inflated fees. It just doesn’t suit Klopp’s approach.
Ok apparently my last response somehow pissed you off so I will try again.

"No because you are entering the business end of the season and need players who will make a rapid difference whether that be added quality and/or cover in a key position."

Some impact is still better than no impact. Going without or going with something that isn't perfect yet then the decision should be clear. One choice doesn't help you at all the other should help at least a little bit here and there.

"As a transfer window it is renowned for its inflated fees."

I really don't care. We are being intelligent enough with our money and hardly splashing the cash so if sometimes we spend a bit more to do business in a more convenient way for us then so be it.

"It just doesn’t suit Klopp’s approach."

I completely disagree with this vague generalisation. It suited Klopps approach bringing Van Dijk in during last winter. It's also by far the mid season point that has worked best for us under Klopp with regards to how the squad has been doing. VvD provided a real boost without which last season may well have failed off. And to go to my other posts VvD is now a rock solid foundation at the core of the squad. He's not a new player integrating in. All that was ironed out last season.
 

Limiescouse

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So therefore buying them in Jan so they are fully integrated by the start of the next season is the smart thing to do?
Yeah, targeted recruitment in Jan can pay dividends for the following year, even if he doesn't contribute much that season. A signing for the purpose of having an effect that season = unlikely. One that is part of our long term strategy anyway, going for them in Jan makes it like they have a long pre-season.

It is also potentially going to be easier for new signings next year if we assume we will make fewer of them and so the group as a whole they walk in to will be a bit more up to speed than the one Naby and Fab came into
 

Claymenza

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Weigl is no more a product of their youth team than Danny Ings is of ours. Even Pulisic is only if you have a very generous definition seeing as he was in the first team squad almost immediately upon being signed by them.

If we want to talk about development, I think what they have shown is that they are good at that final stage of turning promise into first team talent, but with rare exceptions these are not kids who have been produced by their academy.
If you're coaching players from the age of 18 into the first team, you're developing them.
 



Perth Red

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Been mentioned before but Hirving Lozano is apparently interested in a move to the Premier League. Could play on the right and allow Salah to move in to the striker role and I'm sure could play on the left if less effectively, so could cover for Sadio too! Certainly improves the front three, in my opinion. 8 in 11 for PSV plus 4 assists this season. Also scored against Spurs which is just a bonus!
17 goals and 11 assists last season in 29... them's some good stats even if it is Eredivisie
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Been mentioned before but Hirving Lozano is apparently interested in a move to the Premier League. Could play on the right and allow Salah to move in to the striker role and I'm sure could play on the left if less effectively, so could cover for Sadio too! Certainly improves the front three, in my opinion. 8 in 11 for PSV plus 4 assists this season. Also scored against Spurs which is just a bonus!
17 goals and 11 assists last season in 29... them's some good stats even if it is Eredivisie
The problem with it being the Eredivisie can't be highlighted enough. You do get some good players from there like Suarez but it's so hard to tell. Jahanbakhsh did better than Lozano with 21 goals and 12 assists. Moved to Brighton and so far no goals or assists in 10 premier league appearances.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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The problem with it being the Eredivisie can't be highlighted enough. You do get some good players from there like Suarez but it's so hard to tell. Jahanbakhsh did better than Lozano with 21 goals and 12 assists. Moved to Brighton and so far no goals or assists in 10 premier league appearances.
Lozano also looked very good in the WC. I think it would largely depend on the cost, though, a big fee would be too much of a gamble.
 
C

Caradoc

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Ok apparently my last response somehow pissed you off so I will try again.

"No because you are entering the business end of the season and need players who will make a rapid difference whether that be added quality and/or cover in a key position."

Some impact is still better than no impact. Going without or going with something that isn't perfect yet then the decision should be clear. One choice doesn't help you at all the other should help at least a little bit here and there.

"As a transfer window it is renowned for its inflated fees."

I really don't care. We are being intelligent enough with our money and hardly splashing the cash so if sometimes we spend a bit more to do business in a more convenient way for us then so be it.

"It just doesn’t suit Klopp’s approach."

I completely disagree with this vague generalisation. It suited Klopps approach bringing Van Dijk in during last winter. It's also by far the mid season point that has worked best for us under Klopp with regards to how the squad has been doing. VvD provided a real boost without which last season may well have failed off. And to go to my other posts VvD is now a rock solid foundation at the core of the squad. He's not a new player integrating in. All that was ironed out last season.

I already covered the VvD signing. Also, the VvD signing was a leftover issue from the previous summer.

I enjoy your posts normally so I don’t want to fall out with you. But you really can’t expect other posters not to get pissed off when you misrepresent their posts and continue to do so even when it is pointed out to you.

You don’t agree with me ...... fine ...... I am perfectly comfortable with that, but at least have the decency to agree with something I actually posted.
 

Perth Red

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Lozano also looked very good in the WC. I think it would largely depend on the cost, though, a big fee would be too much of a gamble.
Yes his performances for Mexico were pretty good, as you say it ultimately comes down to price. I just have a sneaking feeling that he would flourish in a high tempo environment. Also he has a bit of fire in him, not afraid to put a tackle in, which I like!
 



GermanRed

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- we still don't have cover for Manés LW position
- personally i don't think Sturridge will be here next season
- while it was unthinkable last season Klopp is playing with a #10 now from time to time

The three points above make me think that we could bring in a new striker who can also Play on the left wing (we prefer signing versatile players) in the summer.

Firmino could then play as the #10 from time to time - i'm sure that could unleash his full potential (performance and numbers wise) and we all know about his defensive qualities.

#10 Shaqiri, Firmino
LW Mané, new signing
RW Salah, Shaqiri
ST Firmino, new signing

IMO Timo Werner would be perfect for us - he will have one year left on his contract in the summer. Leon Bailey would be another one who could fit in but i don't think he has the right mindset. Still believe that Lacazette would have been a great signing for us.

Any other suggestions for available players who are similar to Werner, Bailey, Lacazette?
 

Richard88

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- we still don't have cover for Manés LW position
- personally i don't think Sturridge will be here next season
- while it was unthinkable last season Klopp is playing with a #10 now from time to time

The three points above make me think that we could bring in a new striker who can also Play on the left wing (we prefer signing versatile players) in the summer.

Firmino could then play as the #10 from time to time - i'm sure that could unleash his full potential (performance and numbers wise) and we all know about his defensive qualities.

#10 Shaqiri, Firmino
LW Mané, new signing
RW Salah, Shaqiri
ST Firmino, new signing

IMO Timo Werner would be perfect for us - he will have one year left on his contract in the summer. Leon Bailey would be another one who could fit in but i don't think he has the right mindset. Still believe that Lacazette would have been a great signing for us.

Any other suggestions for available players who are similar to Werner, Bailey, Lacazette?
Timo Werner is indeed the perfect alternative. Capable of playing on the wing or up front. Pacey, tenacious, and clinical. Also just 22 years old which fits the FSG profile.

When you think of the wealth of options City have up front, it makes sense to get another top quality CF like Werner to compete against them. As you said Werner's versatility would also ensure that he'd get plenty of game time, and also mean that Firmino could drop into the No.10 role at times.

As for other options, another CF who might be a good option is Kasper Dolberg.
 
C

Caradoc

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I think the problem is, knee issues aside, Fekir was seen as the perfect fit for us by Klopp. That is the type of player that we were clearly looking at. There are very few players like him, certainly at his level and at that price.

Nothing wrong with suggesting players but the reality is that what we think and what Klopp thinks are quite often different. So one of us stating that a player is a perfect fit is about as relevant as suggesting Marge freakin’ Simpson ..... it ain’t gonna happen unless Klopp happens to be thinking the same thing!
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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I think the problem is, knee issues aside, Fekir was seen as the perfect fit for us by Klopp. That is the type of player that we were clearly looking at. There are very few players like him, certainly at his level and at that price.

Nothing wrong with suggesting players but the reality is that what we think and what Klopp thinks are quite often different. So one of us stating that a player is a perfect fit is about as relevant as suggesting Marge freakin’ Simpson ..... it ain’t gonna happen unless Klopp happens to be thinking the same thing!
Agree with this, especially as Klopp (more than most other managers) is less likely to accept a player that isn't a perfect match for what he wants. The only consideration I have is that Shaqiri has really shown promise central. I think the original plan was Shaqiri covering RW and LW and Fekir covering CAM and CF. Two players covering 4 positions between them. Then it's a guessing game as to whether Klopp still wants that or is now considering Shaqiri as the CAM option now. Still think someone more in the Fekir profile is the most likely Jan acquisition. But personally I'd like to see a top level wide option with Shaqiri moved CAM almost exclusively and Salah used at CF when Firmino isnt/can't play.
 

Koon

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Dembele has become news once again. He is not even on tomorrow's match squad.

I can't say it would be an impossible deal at this point, tbh. He is in route of collision with Barcelona. Maybe even a january deal (loan + buy clause?) could happen?

Yeah, I know, he has a few issues, but I think they are very manageable.
 



GermanRed

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Dembele has become news once again. He is not even on tomorrow's match squad.

I can't say it would be an impossible deal at this point, tbh. He is in route of collision with Barcelona. Maybe even a january deal (loan + buy clause?) could happen?

Yeah, I know, he has a few issues, but I think they are very manageable.
Didn’t appear to training and nobody at the club knew why. He called them 2 hours later and said he is ill.

Stupid idiot - don’t want him at Liverpool
 

Koon

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Didn’t appear to training and nobody at the club knew why. He called them 2 hours later and said he is ill.

Stupid idiot - don’t want him at Liverpool
Yeah, I know.

I really think you have a point, no doubt about that, but I also think Dembele is too good of a player to let him pass. VVD did the same to Southampton (maybe even worse) and here he is, as professional as ever.
 

GermanRed

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Yeah, I know.

I really think you have a point, no doubt about that, but I also think Dembele is too good of a player to let him pass. VVD did the same to Southampton (maybe even worse) and here he is, as professional as ever.
VvD had his reasons and he did it when the transfer window was open. He wanted to leave a 'small' club for a great club, earn the money he deserves and play CL football.

Dembele forced his move away from Dortmund. He went on strike and and went AWOL. Everybody knew staying at Dortmund for another year would be very important for his development.

What problems does he have now? Does Barca not pay him enough money? Isn’t he at one of the biggest clubs in the world? Playing with some of the best in the world? Winning trophies? Maybe he doesn’t like being a 'small fish' at Barca?

Not enough playing time? He knew exactly what what he can expect if he signs for Barca. Maybe he is not training hard enough.

The problems he has at Barca he would clearly have at every other big club.

Dembele is an unreliable stupid idiot with the wrong mindset and a bad character and bad agents.
 



Danny_

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Dembele has become news once again. He is not even on tomorrow's match squad.

I can't say it would be an impossible deal at this point, tbh. He is in route of collision with Barcelona. Maybe even a january deal (loan + buy clause?) could happen?

Yeah, I know, he has a few issues, but I think they are very manageable.
The only way I see it happening is a loan and even that is unlikely
 

Danny_

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Will go out on a limb on this one. As a completely different option for LW I would put in a bid for Roberto Pereyra

https://gfycat.com/easyembellishedgaur

https://gfycat.com/obeseslushycockerspaniel

https://gfycat.com/wateryuniformkentrosaurus
If he was on a free and reasonable wages, maybe. He does look like a good quality player but nothing massively special. He would be a decent squad player for us. Probably a step up on Lallana the way he is playing right now.
 

RedForever2014

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Personally I feel we need a January signing or two, on loan or permanent to boost things.

Can't see the current squad going all the way this season.

I think Fabinho will slowly but surely become a viable rotation option at Can's level or better with Gini, Hendo, Milner in central midfield.

Whether Keita or Shaqiri can be that creative force between central midfield and attack against all levels of opposition remains to be seen. I like them, I think they can be used in various matches in attacking midfield, and actually see both as decent cover for Salah and Mane sometimes too.

But do we have the Coutinho or Oxlade type 10 to use in any huge matches that come our way?

For me, we're a pacey winger (Mane style) and a quality 10 (Fekir style who can cover Bobby), away from being equipped to keep winning in the PL and CL (if still in it) during the run in.

Two from Gini, Hendo, Milner, Fabinho in central midfield. A quality 10 and the front three, with Fekir type, Keita, Shaqiri and Mane type to rotate.

Sturridge is an off the bench for me.

Send Solanke on loan, sell Origi and maybe Lallana, sign Fekir permanently and Dembele on loan.

Won't happen of course, but it's what I think we need to give City a close shave.
 

Mascot88

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I agree on Sturridge. I think he is a 20-30 minute footballer, either when we need a goal, or we need someone who can put their foot on the ball and help us see out a game. I don’t think he should be starting games, and that’s as much for him as us.

I’m not sure we’ll do much in the January window. Klopp traditionally doesn’t like the window, and it’s hard to get players to move mid season.

Summer starts to look really interesting though.

A balanced midfield three is starting to emerge - we have two screeners/controller in Fabinho and Henderson, two runners/box to box in Oxlade-Chamberlain and Keita, and then one creative spark in Shaqiri. As you’ve said, signing that ‘Fekir’ type creative - that is surely the priority for summer.

I’ve no idea where that leaves Wijnaldum, Milner and Lallana. None of them are that creative spark, and Wijnaldum and Milner both fall into that category of lads who are a bit multifunctional and good to have around. It would be great to keep them and have eight quality options for three midfield positions. (I can see the club letting Milner go if Leeds come up)

Signing that creative midfielder should be relatively straightforward - it’s a signing for the first team, and you’d imagine players would be keen to come.

But the real challenge is going to be at the back. I think we’re going to need a Keeper, a right back and a left back. All of them to back up what we have. We also need to make a decision around Matip and Lovren - question marks about Matips suitability, and massive issues with the fitness records of both. And the more established that first choice back five becomes, the harder recruiting the deputies is.

I’m not two worried about the front three. Shaqiri, Ox and Keita can all do bits there if we need them to. It would be good to have a good cover option for Salah and Mane, and effectively pick two from three for the wide positions. I also think Mane is probably going to want to get off this summer or next, and it would be good to have his replacement in ahead of time.
 



Nikola

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Klopp has used 4-2-3-1 relatively often over the course of past month, I wonder if it's his long-term plan or just a temporary fix until AOC recovers and/or he finally finds the no. 10 he's looking for. I was very surprised to see him using Firmino in that no. 10 role, if I can call it that, I would have expected to see Shaqiri there, with the rest of the front three staying as they were.

In my opinion, there are serious question marks over Matip, because he's been one of the worst performers since Klopp bought him, Clyne, because he seems surpassed by two younger players, Milner, because of his age, and Mane, whose contract situation eerily reminds me of Can's ("I'm thinking only about football, my agent is dealing with contracts" and that stuff while all the other lads are signing up without a hitch). That said, if Mane doesn't start putting in some consistently good performances, it won't be long before Klopp starts looking for his replacement.

I don't think there'll be a massive overhaul of playing staff when it comes to regular starters but it's another story for squad players. Next summer, I'd expect Mignolet, Moreno, Lallana, Origi and Sturridge to depart. All of them should be a decent take for some club but I don't see any of them contributing to Liverpool enough to warrant their stay. Say, Lewis, Wilson and Brewster replace Moreno, Lallana and Origi in the squad for one season at least (not that far-fetched, given that journalists close to the club have repeatedly stated these had been given assurances by Klopp himself), club would still need to find at least a backup goalie and a creative attacking midfielder, while another wide attacker wouldn't go amiss.

Maybe Grujić, Wilson and Solanke will go out on another loan (I'd actually prefer that scenario if the right club comes for them) but regardless of that, I think we'll see a bigger influx of academy players, in addition to two or three first team signings. That would genuinely be in line with Klopp's philosophy, though it remains to be seen what plans he has for certain players of the current crop, especially those in midfield.
 

Zoran

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We played the double six formation exactly a year ago, after that loss against Spurs when it was said that Klopp and the team had a talk and decided to flip the structure for a while to get some stability back. Play 4 midfielders more Atletico-style and leave Bobby with Mo up front, with Bobby doing that second striker role. It was when Salah became more and more influential with his goals/threat and started commanding more freedom than Mane on the other side, when we went from a clearer 4-3-3 at the start to Salah getting more freedom and playing higher than Mane.

I'm not surprised Bobby is playing the 10 instead of Shaq (although we rotated it a bit in some first games). When we play the double six, Salah on the right would mean he needs to defend a lot more than he usually does. So he's now playing even more as a striker and Bobby is asked to ordinate even deeper, basically being a midfielder first and second striker second (not that he doesn't help when he usually plays up front, but some small differences can make a difference if that makes sense). It's not really Shaq's best position, while it's understandable why Klopp wants Bobby central.

I expect us to go back to 4-3-3 more once we get more central midfielders back and raising their form hopefully. Then we can sometimes flip to a double six in smaller games, but I don't like us playing that way against better opposition (and we had certain performance issues even in smaller games). There's a difference between Fekir and what could Shaq potentially do in that role. It's not the same level. Shaq should be happy to be our "3rd" wide forward option, someone who can do a job between the lines in smaller games, be on the verge of starting like he is now and fight towards it.

I am a bit surprised Klopp is keeping Clyne in the cold. Okay, doesn't have to be a starter anymore, but with Gomez's performances at CB, Trent (or the team first and foremost and then Trent as well) could do with some help here and there. Our dynamic has changed on that side yes, sometimes there's large space down the right with Salah attacking more between the opposition's LB/CB and then we need help from whoever our right sided 8 is on that day. Clyne is not great going forward but can at least do a solid job that you don't have to worry about him (like he did against Chelsea).

As for our young players, it's very difficult to predict unless there's a "Sterling" out there. Those are rare. Need to see them having first team minutes first, because we're now a team that wants to make the next step and bringing youngsters through becomes even more secondary (not saying we should neglect the Academy, but it is how it is unfortunately, it will be tougher than when we had to break in the top 4 and could pick a younger player over someone we don't really count on) or we need more and more quality now. The difference in quality sometimes isn't only between the Academy/U23's, but also a club/level like Derby. Someone like Wilson even with a good season still needs to show Klopp he can pick up the principles to be one of the "4 wide forwards".

Mane's got 3 years left, becomes 2 years soon, all is possible these days. I still think he'll sign that new deal though it is dragging on a bit now. What we need to do is just continue what we're doing, planning ahead, aiming for better quality wherever we need it or can attract it. No panic if this is not our year for the league, but maybe also win a cup or challenge in Europe again. I'd take any major trophy at the moment, a potential FA Cup doesn't have to mean we'd limit our chances in the league. We finished second 3 times in my following of the club and every time the season after was catastrophic, every time for different reasons and events. Let's push in the league as far as we can, coming from 2 years of making top 4 on the last day, that would be improvement again. We all want it as soon as possible as fans and it's natural. But I want calm, intelligence and consistency from all the people in charge, just keep going.

We'll see what are Klopp's wishes. So far we're not hearing much, maybe we want to see how this team/squad will develop first before deciding what we need. Do we go back for a player like Fekir if there even is one of that level, what type of central midfielder, what do we do in the forward line where we'll lose some backups, also in defence/goalkeeper (after Mignolet).
 

Mascot88

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I am a bit surprised Klopp is keeping Clyne in the cold. Okay, doesn't have to be a starter anymore, but with Gomez's performances at CB, Trent (or the team first and foremost and then Trent as well) could do with some help here and there. Our dynamic has changed on that side yes, sometimes there's large space down the right with Salah attacking more between the opposition's LB/CB and then we need help from whoever our right sided 8 is on that day. Clyne is not great going forward but can at least do a solid job that you don't have to worry about him (like he did against Chelsea).
That has surprised me too. I think he’ll leave in January to be honest.

I’m of the opinion that Gomez is now a centre back and he should only start at RB in the most dire of emergencies. We saw it again on Sunday. Gomez and Van Dijk start and get another clean sheet.

I would have thought Clyne would have been ideal cover for Trent. He is a bit more defensive, which would come in handy from time to time. I find it a bit baffling that Klopp would rather break up a centre half partnership of such promise, to play Gomez at RB. It makes me wonder if there is something about Clynes training he doesn’t like.
 

ILLOK

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I’m of the opinion that Gomez is now a centre back and he should only start at RB in the most dire of emergencies. We saw it again on Sunday. Gomez and Van Dijk start and get another clean sheet.
We also have 2 clean sheets in the 2 games Lovren has played with Gomez at RB, and one of those was against City.

Lovren is a better player than Clyne and Gomez is a perfectly good right back. I expect Gomez will be our right back against Watford given their aerial threat and their best player (Pereyra) playing on the left, and possibly even away at PSG too. Fitness permitting.
 

Mascot88

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We also have 2 clean sheets in the 2 games Lovren has played with Gomez at RB, and one of those was against City.

Lovren is a better player than Clyne and Gomez is a perfectly good right back. I expect Gomez will be our right back against Watford given their aerial threat and their best player (Pereyra) playing on the left, and possibly even away at PSG too. Fitness permitting.
Lovren can world class. But we know he has a mistake in him. And when he makes one he tends to make another.

To be honest, if it wasn’t for his fitness record he’d probably be starting. He just isn’t reliably available enough to be first choice.

I’m also worried about the effect running touchline is having on Joe’s knees, what with the previous injuries.

But I agree with that Watford/PSG shout. I can only say it isn’t what I’d do, but I’ve got a thing about fucking with the centre backs.