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Who would you buy?

Koon

Very bad englando. I'm so sorry.
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Jan 10, 2016
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Bobby is a 9, Shaqiri is a wide forward.

Both can play '10' to a certain level, and in a squad that needs versatility that's great.

But they are not, in my opinion, top class attacking midfielders who do the job at a similar level, and/or in a similar way, to Coutinho and Oxlade.

If we're talking about having a best 11 that can win the big matches against the best sides, we need better in the central attacking midfielder area of the pitch - whether you see that as a 8 or 10 - than we have in Bobby, Shaqiri, Lallana, Keita (until proven otherwise), Oxlade (until we see what level he comes back).
Agree, mate.

Compare Firmino to any other really good number 10 and that guy will be better, probably. Now compare him to any really good number 9 and Firmino will probably be better. It's all about his strengths and weaknessess.

What we need on a number 8/10 is creativity, good long range pass, ball control, and an ability to control the game when in possession. Firmino is not a good long range passer, his vision is limited, he sometimes loses possession far too easy.

Firmino is not a playmaker, he is a space creator and an amazing one. He is the king of one-twos, he is great dragging CB's out of position while also becoming avaiable to his team mates, he is really good in close quarters and also he can press a lot. He is a perfect number 9 to Salah and Mané.

Shaqiri for example is a better playmaker. Every single game his long range pass is really good, he can dribble, his vision is also good. I also don't think he is a top playmaker, but he is better than Firmino.

IMO Klopp should think about revert 4-3-3 back with Shaqiri playing the 8 position and Salah on the wing + Firmino false 9. The best football we ever had under Klopp was with this formation.

In the summer, we really need a new number 8/10 unless Shaqiri plays amazing football. I'd rather have the likes of Aouar and Isco at number 10 than Firmino. It's a waste using him there.
 

Claymenza

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The ox is a 10. Keita is a 10. Lallana is a 10. Mane is a 10. Firmino is a 10.

I remember when rodgers had suarez, sturridge, sterling and coutinho as his front 4....they were equally interchangeable in the course of a match.

Dribbling into the pockets, pass and play, get behind the defense etc...maybe coutinho was more unique in his approach.
With shaqiri, you have a 10, a 9 and a 7 as well.
 

Koon

Very bad englando. I'm so sorry.
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The ox is a 10. Keita is a 10. Lallana is a 10. Mane is a 10. Firmino is a 10.

I remember when rodgers had suarez, sturridge, sterling and coutinho as his front 4....they were equally interchangeable in the course of a match.

Dribbling into the pockets, pass and play, get behind the defense etc...maybe coutinho was more unique in his approach.
With shaqiri, you have a 10, a 9 and a 7 as well.
I agree with you, but I think you are missing the point: the play style required and the player's play style.

Ox is a speedster, Keita is a dribbler (he is, but he hasn't show it just yet), Lallana was a very dynamic player (pass, lose the marking, receives the pass and repeat), Mané is a dribbler/speedster, Firmino is a space creator, Salah is a speedster/finisher.

Using players in different positions will result in very different play style overall. Using Firmino up front will be very different than using Salah or using Firmino as 10 will be very different than using Shaqiri.

Also, will Firmino in the 10 postion or Salah on the LW be the as using Firmino up front and Salah in RW? That's the same as wasting their potential. Can they perform there? Yes. To their fullest? Absolutely not.

I understand when people talk about interchaning positions, but it's not like they run everywhere. Starting positions and also the job players must do is more strict. Way more strict, in fact. Also, if you think about Mané, Salah and Firmino last season, Firmino's job was also very strict: create space for Salah and Mané. Salah was the poacher and Mané was the one who would defend a little bit more and then explore the spaces Firmino would create.

Just saying "we have a number X" player doesn't mean anything, it's all about what they can do at their fullest and what we need. And what we need since last season is a really good number 8/10 with great vision, long range pass and able to control the game. That's not Firmino. It might be Shaqiri, but it's not Firmino.
 

Claymenza

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We have an abundance of wingers turned midfielders, that we seem to be playing with two 8s like gini and milner
 

Semmy

tho your dreams be tossed and blown
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We have an abundance of wingers turned midfielders, that we seem to be playing with two 8s like gini and milner
Funnily enough I feel like Wijnaldum or Milner are average #8’s. Milner is a better wide midfielder and his best matches were played out wide. Wijnaldum doesn’t have the forward impetus for me to consider him a #8. He seems to hit an invisible wall when looking at the opponents’ goal with the ball at his feet. Even at Watford towards the end when he and Bobby were cycling the ball in the far corner in front of the away fans, Wijnaldum always prefers to turn his back instead of dropping a shoulder. That just doesn’t work for me, we are dying to get Keita back into the side and we REALLY miss Oxlade.

Unfortunately I don’t even see a youth talent coming up in that role, maybe our best shout could be Jones?

That said...hoping to see Wijnaldum get a break in favour of Keita re-entering the side although Klopp hinted he has to be patient and wait for his chance. So maybe Fabinho...
 

RedForever2014

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In my opinion - Firmino on that #10 position can do at least the same things he did as a #9. Performance and numbers, attack and 'defend' - more than Klopp could ever ask for from an attacking midfielder. Even as our #9 he is everywhere on the pitch. Do you know another #10 in world football who defends and presses as much as Bobby?
The fact that Bobby does some 10 type work from the 9 position is a bonus. It doesn't make him a 10.

Last season we got the goal return of a 9 from Bobby, together with half a number 10 job too. Some player indeed.

But it doesn't take away the need for a quality player getting the ball and creating things with the required skills (long range passing, short passes, dribbles and drives), from the area of the pitch between the midfielders who sit in front of the defence and the attackers who are pushing up against the opponents defenders.

It can be done by a player picked in the front three (as Coutinho did when played outside left), or a dedicated player.

But if can't be done by one of Mane, Salah or Bobby to the same level as a Coutinho or Oxlade type.

It is noticeable that since Oxlade got injured we've not been the same offensively, just as we didn't notice Coutinho's departure as much because Oxlade came into form.

Bobby, Mane and Salah are not players who you want in that position getting the ball, Lallana isn't good enough for where the best 11 is at now, Keita hasn't proved he can do that yet and for me is one of the central midfield group, Oxlade is injured and might not be the same player on his return. Shaqiri for me is the guy who deputises for Mane and Salah and plays 10 against lesser sides.

But pick a best 11 from the current squad for a Champions League Final and there is no obvious player to do that role at the right level.

You'd have Alisson, TAA, Gomez or Lovren, VVD, Robertson, Mane, Salah , Bobby.

But for the three other positions you'd use three CM's from Hendo, Fab, Milner, Gini, Keita and wouldn't select Shaqiri or Lallana to start.

Would that be the case if Coutinho or Oxlade were available? Would Oxlade have started in Kiev if fit?

For me that says it all.
 

nobluff

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But for the three other positions you'd use three CM's from Hendo, Fab, Milner, Gini, Keita and wouldn't select Shaqiri or Lallana to start.
I think with the three in midfield you need at least 1 of Ox or Keita to play. I would prefer both when we come up against a more defensive side. With Ox being injured, and Keita not playing much, we have been very predictable and one dimensional in the middle.

As you mention, if we had Ox or Coutinho available, it would be different. I assume that is what you mean, or have I misunderstood?
 

GermanRed

from doubters to believers to sky-high achievers
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Alisson
TAA Gomez VvD Robertson
Fabinho Keita
Salah Firmino Mane
X

I'm a big Firmino fan and i believe that in a 4-2-3-1 he can reach his full potential in the middle of the park as a CAM / Second striker.

With Origi, Sturridge and maybe Solanke (out on loan) out of the Club probably that would give us the Chance to add another striker. Simply because we Need more Goals, assists, shots, chances created.

Timo Werner or Memphis Depay.
 

Koon

Very bad englando. I'm so sorry.
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Yesterday's match proved how much we need a creative midfielder in the middle of the park. I can only imagine how good this team would be with Fabinho, Keita and Shaqiri, all in good shape. And I don't even think Shaqiri is an amazing player, he is good like Ox (different player, though), but they are not top players, they are decent enough. Imagine the likes of Coutinho, Eriksen, Isco...

Also, I'd get rid of at least 2 between Gini, Lallana, Milner and Henderson. Lallana and Milner, probably.

Keeping Lallana was a huge mistake and Gini, Milner and Henderson are basically the same player on the ball, all useless creating, very one dimensional midfielders.

We already have a very good DM (Fabinho) and an amazing number 8 (Keita). Now we need a great number 8/10 and start using Firmino where he has shone last season. With Keita + a really good playmaker this team will become a machine again. Klopp tried Fékir but well... problems.

Our midfield is so useless that Ndombele and Aouar are twice better than the Hendo-Milner-Gini trio. They are really good defending but also create A LOT.

Even Aouar, who's a world class player in the making would be enough to make this midfield much better.
 

Koon

Very bad englando. I'm so sorry.
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Last time Isco has played 90 minutes was against Barcelona, still october.

After that, 3 matches only, coming from the bench and playing 15~30 minutes.

Today, vs Valencia, he will sit one more time while Ceballos and Llorente will be starters.

It will be so easy to pull him out of there when the winter window opens.

Come on, Liverpool, come on Klopp.
 

GaryBarlow99

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I think our squad holds up well against Man City's but we do lack wing and AM depth that they have. If Sturridge and Lallana go in the summer these are the positions I think we will look to strengthen. A Sane and a Mahrez type would be good. I still hope for Fekir and I wouldn't be opposed to Pulisic if Klopp really wants him. Ideally we would get Dybala and Sancho though :tongue:

Aguero - Firmino
B Silva - Shaqiri
De Bruyne - Ox
Mahrez - Lallana
D Silva - Keita
Sterling - Mane
Jesus - Salah
Sane - Sturridge
 

Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
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I was bored earlier so thinking about this, and I think we need to be busy in the market this summer.

We need a back up keeper, a left back and a right back. No way Mignolet, Clyne or Moreno will stay another season. I think Phillips might be ready to be fourth choice, so I’d let Matip go. Lovren is very injury prone, so I’d have a think about him too.

Midfield looks really deep and strong, but we need that creative spark. Fab and Hendo are deep lying, Ox and Keita are runners for the left and right sides, and shaqiri is the other creative lad. Milner and Wijnaldum are good all rounders. If we can get a player like Fekir - someone who can be a creative number ten, and do bits on the left of the attack then we have brilliant depth and balance.

We’ve got the usual three up top, a decision to be made about Origi and Sturridge, and Brewster coming through. Shaq and Ox can cover the right, and Keita and the new lad can cover the left.

I’d still grab Pulisic if we can stretch to it.
 

GermanRed

from doubters to believers to sky-high achievers
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One of Depay or Werner would be all we need to complete our attack + AM

CF
Firmino (as the False9 in the 4-3-3)
Werner / Depay (as #9 in the 4-2-3-1
Brewster / Solanke

Left
Mané
Depay / Werner
Woodburn?

Right
Salah
Shaqiri
Ox
Wilson?

CAM
Firmino (in the 4-2-3-1)
Shaqiri
Ox
Jones

Depay and Werner will both have one year left on their contracts in the summer. I‘m having some concerns about Timo Werner but i‘m 100% sure Klopp would make Depay our best Scorer (Goals + Assists).
 

MW2833

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Apr 3, 2018
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674
One of Depay or Werner would be all we need to complete our attack + AM

CF
Firmino (as the False9 in the 4-3-3)
Werner / Depay (as #9 in the 4-2-3-1
Brewster / Solanke

Left
Mané
Depay / Werner
Woodburn?

Right
Salah
Shaqiri
Ox
Wilson?

CAM
Firmino (in the 4-2-3-1)
Shaqiri
Ox
Jones

Depay and Werner will both have one year left on their contracts in the summer. I‘m having some concerns about Timo Werner but i‘m 100% sure Klopp would make Depay our best Scorer (Goals + Assists).
Let's ask Lyon if we can buy depay, ndombele, fekir and aouar.
 

ILLOK

In the Danger Zone.
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And settle for the last two,Depay is a bit of a knob.
Ndombele is fantastic too, he'd be an absolute monster in our midfield. Depay is just blatantly one of the least Liverpool players around at the top level and I'd hope he wouldn't ever be considered.

Agree with the above that we'll need some defensive reinforcements, potentially as many as 3 or 4 if all our current backups leave over the next two windows. Wouldn't want us to rely on any of our academy players for those positions so hopefully we will dip into the market. As such, we'll probably only make 1 or 2 'big' signings with the intention of improving the midfield/front line which will be sufficient.
 

GermanRed

from doubters to believers to sky-high achievers
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If you mean why does he say that, then he is someone who likes the fame and money but not the hard work or responsibility of being a world class player
Does he tell kids to quit school or what mistakes did he make? Or is it because he signed for ManU and is into Rap music?

All I see is this
18/19 20 Games 6 Goals 10 Assists
17/18 51 Games 22 Goals 17 Assists
First 4 months at Lyon 17 games 5 Goals 8 Assists
National team 44 Games 13 Goals 9 Assists
 

Nikola

"Oh, history writer, don't close the pages yet!"
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Aouar and/or Pulišić to be the next major targets for Klopp? That said, Aouar and Ndombele could be the next two transfers for Man City, long term replacements for Fernandinho and David Silva, it's a bit predictable looking at the way they play football.

That said, like @Mascot88 said, Mignolet, Clyne and Moreno will need replacing very soon, so there's that part of the squad to be taken into consideration (to think that Man City can beat, for example, a strong Bournemouth side with what is practically their second string...). I'd love it if academy could provide their able replacements but not everything can be solved in that manner.
 

ILLOK

In the Danger Zone.
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Feb 10, 2009
Messages
16,145
Does he tell kids to quit school or what mistakes did he make? Or is it because he signed for ManU and is into Rap music?
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/nov/12/memphis-depay-big-club-player-small-time-attitude-lyon-ligue-1

Here's just one article. Plenty more out there if you're interested, ones that document his attitude at United or out with the Dutch national team.

Regardless of how he's played he's had the attitude that he's the best player around and should be untouchable, and has spat his dummy out time and time again if a manager disagrees whether that's by turning up late, complaining in the media or not taking training and warm ups seriously. Quite the antithesis to what Klopp has tried to build at Liverpool, wouldn't you say?
 

Claymenza

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Sep 21, 2013
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Jadon Sancho even if it costs us £100mil.
Isn't this counter intuitive to what man city is trying to do?
This was a successful loan for talent that will surely be the rightful heir to david silva when he comes of age.

City wouldn't sell to us
We have enough wingers.
We don't have the cash to splash now.
He won't get playing time.

If city is able to develop players via a surrogate club, why aren't we doing that?