Who would you buy?

RedForever2014

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To be honest the who is debatable, but what I am sure of is that if we want to compete we've always got to be looking to develop and improve the squad.

If we lose players who aren't quite good enough to play much and want to play more by moving elsewhere, we can't be letting them go and relying on versatility and youth to fill the gaps.

Also, if we're going to play 4231 quite a bit, it's clear we don't have quite enough in the forward group.

The two players who'd really take the squad up a level are another quick quality wide man and a top quality 10.
 

GermanRed

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Also, if we're going to play 4231 quite a bit, it's clear we don't have quite enough in the forward group.

The two players who'd really take the squad up a level are another quick quality wide man and a top quality 10.
Shaqiri and Firmino for the #10 position is more than enough.

We need to replace Origi and Sturridge with ONE player who can play upfront and left wide - like Werner oder Depay for example.
 

GaryBarlow99

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Weren't we interested in Jordan Amavi before he went to Villa? Seems he has been playing very well for Marseille and we do have previous for going back in for players we missed out on. Would be a good Moreno replacement if none of the youngsters can make the step up.
 

Dave-D

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Depay. Yes I’d buy Depay, previous experience of the EPL but he’d be forgiven for forgetting about that as LVG was his manager so no more needs to be said there.
Would integrate easily into the squad with a little help from Gini and VVD.
Only 24 so will still improve before hitting his peak.
Last but not least he’d be a great addition to the squad and there wouldn’t be any drop off in quality if either him or Mane played.


Edited to include his stats from this season
https://www.transfermarkt.com/memphis-depay/leistungsdaten/spieler/167850
 

Claymenza

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Depay. Yes I’d buy Depay, previous experience of the EPL but he’d be forgiven for forgetting about that as LVG was his manager so no more needs to be said there.
Would integrate easily into the squad with a little help from Gini and VVD.
Only 24 so will still improve before hitting his peak.
Last but not least he’d be a great addition to the squad and there wouldn’t be any drop off in quality if either him or Mane played.


Edited to include his stats from this season
https://www.transfermarkt.com/memphis-depay/leistungsdaten/spieler/167850
That buy back clause will mean the price will be extortionate.

Also, he turned down brendan rodgers and we got firmino instead.
 

Dave-D

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That buy back clause will mean the price will be extortionate.

Also, he turned down brendan rodgers and we got firmino instead.
Would he want to go back to manure just now i very much doubt it and at worst it means manure pay more after Liverpool push the price up.

Could you blame him for turning down Rodgers. I couldn’t and then there’s the other factor that he’d been managed by LVG before but it then turned sour
 

RedForever2014

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Shaqiri and Firmino for the #10 position is more than enough.

We need to replace Origi and Sturridge with ONE player who can play upfront and left wide - like Werner oder Depay for example.
Bobby is a 9, Shaqiri is a wide forward.

Both can play '10' to a certain level, and in a squad that needs versatility that's great.

But they are not, in my opinion, top class attacking midfielders who do the job at a similar level, and/or in a similar way, to Coutinho and Oxlade.

If we're talking about having a best 11 that can win the big matches against the best sides, we need better in the central attacking midfielder area of the pitch - whether you see that as a 8 or 10 - than we have in Bobby, Shaqiri, Lallana, Keita (until proven otherwise), Oxlade (until we see what level he comes back).
 

GermanRed

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Bobby is a 9, Shaqiri is a wide forward.

Both can play '10' to a certain level, and in a squad that needs versatility that's great.

But they are not, in my opinion, top class attacking midfielders who do the job at a similar level, and/or in a similar way, to Coutinho and Oxlade.

If we're talking about having a best 11 that can win the big matches against the best sides, we need better in the central attacking midfielder area of the pitch - whether you see that as a 8 or 10 - than we have in Bobby, Shaqiri, Lallana, Keita (until proven otherwise), Oxlade (until we see what level he comes back).
In my opinion - Firmino on that #10 position can do at least the same things he did as a #9. Performance and numbers, attack and 'defend' - more than Klopp could ever ask for from an attacking midfielder. Even as our #9 he is everywhere on the pitch. Do you know another #10 in world football who defends and presses as much as Bobby?
 

GaryBarlow99

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I was really disappointed when we missed out on Depay as I thought he was made for this league. Would love another Salah type story though where he came back to England after previously failing and rips it up. Versatile and his stats are great but the big money move did seem to go to his head. Not sure we would take a risk on a player like that.
 

Dave-D

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Depay's attitude at United was appalling iirc. Unless he's had a big personality change in the meantime I wouldn't be putting him anywhere near this team.
Didn’t his poor attitude relate to LVG expecting him to spend all his time on the wing and defending instead of attacking.
 

Dave-D

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Yeah, what Illok said. I can't even remember what his on-pitch demeanour was like, but off the pitch he's everything I don't want a LFC player to be.
Yes he may be a w#nker off the pitch but another two assists tonight against City and can play anywhere across the front line. Would have pros and cons but I’d be happy to see him join.
 

Koon

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Bobby is a 9, Shaqiri is a wide forward.

Both can play '10' to a certain level, and in a squad that needs versatility that's great.

But they are not, in my opinion, top class attacking midfielders who do the job at a similar level, and/or in a similar way, to Coutinho and Oxlade.

If we're talking about having a best 11 that can win the big matches against the best sides, we need better in the central attacking midfielder area of the pitch - whether you see that as a 8 or 10 - than we have in Bobby, Shaqiri, Lallana, Keita (until proven otherwise), Oxlade (until we see what level he comes back).
Agree, mate.

Compare Firmino to any other really good number 10 and that guy will be better, probably. Now compare him to any really good number 9 and Firmino will probably be better. It's all about his strengths and weaknessess.

What we need on a number 8/10 is creativity, good long range pass, ball control, and an ability to control the game when in possession. Firmino is not a good long range passer, his vision is limited, he sometimes loses possession far too easy.

Firmino is not a playmaker, he is a space creator and an amazing one. He is the king of one-twos, he is great dragging CB's out of position while also becoming avaiable to his team mates, he is really good in close quarters and also he can press a lot. He is a perfect number 9 to Salah and Mané.

Shaqiri for example is a better playmaker. Every single game his long range pass is really good, he can dribble, his vision is also good. I also don't think he is a top playmaker, but he is better than Firmino.

IMO Klopp should think about revert 4-3-3 back with Shaqiri playing the 8 position and Salah on the wing + Firmino false 9. The best football we ever had under Klopp was with this formation.

In the summer, we really need a new number 8/10 unless Shaqiri plays amazing football. I'd rather have the likes of Aouar and Isco at number 10 than Firmino. It's a waste using him there.
 

Claymenza

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The ox is a 10. Keita is a 10. Lallana is a 10. Mane is a 10. Firmino is a 10.

I remember when rodgers had suarez, sturridge, sterling and coutinho as his front 4....they were equally interchangeable in the course of a match.

Dribbling into the pockets, pass and play, get behind the defense etc...maybe coutinho was more unique in his approach.
With shaqiri, you have a 10, a 9 and a 7 as well.
 

Koon

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The ox is a 10. Keita is a 10. Lallana is a 10. Mane is a 10. Firmino is a 10.

I remember when rodgers had suarez, sturridge, sterling and coutinho as his front 4....they were equally interchangeable in the course of a match.

Dribbling into the pockets, pass and play, get behind the defense etc...maybe coutinho was more unique in his approach.
With shaqiri, you have a 10, a 9 and a 7 as well.
I agree with you, but I think you are missing the point: the play style required and the player's play style.

Ox is a speedster, Keita is a dribbler (he is, but he hasn't show it just yet), Lallana was a very dynamic player (pass, lose the marking, receives the pass and repeat), Mané is a dribbler/speedster, Firmino is a space creator, Salah is a speedster/finisher.

Using players in different positions will result in very different play style overall. Using Firmino up front will be very different than using Salah or using Firmino as 10 will be very different than using Shaqiri.

Also, will Firmino in the 10 postion or Salah on the LW be the as using Firmino up front and Salah in RW? That's the same as wasting their potential. Can they perform there? Yes. To their fullest? Absolutely not.

I understand when people talk about interchaning positions, but it's not like they run everywhere. Starting positions and also the job players must do is more strict. Way more strict, in fact. Also, if you think about Mané, Salah and Firmino last season, Firmino's job was also very strict: create space for Salah and Mané. Salah was the poacher and Mané was the one who would defend a little bit more and then explore the spaces Firmino would create.

Just saying "we have a number X" player doesn't mean anything, it's all about what they can do at their fullest and what we need. And what we need since last season is a really good number 8/10 with great vision, long range pass and able to control the game. That's not Firmino. It might be Shaqiri, but it's not Firmino.
 

Semmy

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We have an abundance of wingers turned midfielders, that we seem to be playing with two 8s like gini and milner
Funnily enough I feel like Wijnaldum or Milner are average #8’s. Milner is a better wide midfielder and his best matches were played out wide. Wijnaldum doesn’t have the forward impetus for me to consider him a #8. He seems to hit an invisible wall when looking at the opponents’ goal with the ball at his feet. Even at Watford towards the end when he and Bobby were cycling the ball in the far corner in front of the away fans, Wijnaldum always prefers to turn his back instead of dropping a shoulder. That just doesn’t work for me, we are dying to get Keita back into the side and we REALLY miss Oxlade.

Unfortunately I don’t even see a youth talent coming up in that role, maybe our best shout could be Jones?

That said...hoping to see Wijnaldum get a break in favour of Keita re-entering the side although Klopp hinted he has to be patient and wait for his chance. So maybe Fabinho...
 

RedForever2014

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In my opinion - Firmino on that #10 position can do at least the same things he did as a #9. Performance and numbers, attack and 'defend' - more than Klopp could ever ask for from an attacking midfielder. Even as our #9 he is everywhere on the pitch. Do you know another #10 in world football who defends and presses as much as Bobby?
The fact that Bobby does some 10 type work from the 9 position is a bonus. It doesn't make him a 10.

Last season we got the goal return of a 9 from Bobby, together with half a number 10 job too. Some player indeed.

But it doesn't take away the need for a quality player getting the ball and creating things with the required skills (long range passing, short passes, dribbles and drives), from the area of the pitch between the midfielders who sit in front of the defence and the attackers who are pushing up against the opponents defenders.

It can be done by a player picked in the front three (as Coutinho did when played outside left), or a dedicated player.

But if can't be done by one of Mane, Salah or Bobby to the same level as a Coutinho or Oxlade type.

It is noticeable that since Oxlade got injured we've not been the same offensively, just as we didn't notice Coutinho's departure as much because Oxlade came into form.

Bobby, Mane and Salah are not players who you want in that position getting the ball, Lallana isn't good enough for where the best 11 is at now, Keita hasn't proved he can do that yet and for me is one of the central midfield group, Oxlade is injured and might not be the same player on his return. Shaqiri for me is the guy who deputises for Mane and Salah and plays 10 against lesser sides.

But pick a best 11 from the current squad for a Champions League Final and there is no obvious player to do that role at the right level.

You'd have Alisson, TAA, Gomez or Lovren, VVD, Robertson, Mane, Salah , Bobby.

But for the three other positions you'd use three CM's from Hendo, Fab, Milner, Gini, Keita and wouldn't select Shaqiri or Lallana to start.

Would that be the case if Coutinho or Oxlade were available? Would Oxlade have started in Kiev if fit?

For me that says it all.
 

nobluff

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But for the three other positions you'd use three CM's from Hendo, Fab, Milner, Gini, Keita and wouldn't select Shaqiri or Lallana to start.
I think with the three in midfield you need at least 1 of Ox or Keita to play. I would prefer both when we come up against a more defensive side. With Ox being injured, and Keita not playing much, we have been very predictable and one dimensional in the middle.

As you mention, if we had Ox or Coutinho available, it would be different. I assume that is what you mean, or have I misunderstood?
 

GermanRed

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Alisson
TAA Gomez VvD Robertson
Fabinho Keita
Salah Firmino Mane
X

I'm a big Firmino fan and i believe that in a 4-2-3-1 he can reach his full potential in the middle of the park as a CAM / Second striker.

With Origi, Sturridge and maybe Solanke (out on loan) out of the Club probably that would give us the Chance to add another striker. Simply because we Need more Goals, assists, shots, chances created.

Timo Werner or Memphis Depay.
 

Koon

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Yesterday's match proved how much we need a creative midfielder in the middle of the park. I can only imagine how good this team would be with Fabinho, Keita and Shaqiri, all in good shape. And I don't even think Shaqiri is an amazing player, he is good like Ox (different player, though), but they are not top players, they are decent enough. Imagine the likes of Coutinho, Eriksen, Isco...

Also, I'd get rid of at least 2 between Gini, Lallana, Milner and Henderson. Lallana and Milner, probably.

Keeping Lallana was a huge mistake and Gini, Milner and Henderson are basically the same player on the ball, all useless creating, very one dimensional midfielders.

We already have a very good DM (Fabinho) and an amazing number 8 (Keita). Now we need a great number 8/10 and start using Firmino where he has shone last season. With Keita + a really good playmaker this team will become a machine again. Klopp tried Fékir but well... problems.

Our midfield is so useless that Ndombele and Aouar are twice better than the Hendo-Milner-Gini trio. They are really good defending but also create A LOT.

Even Aouar, who's a world class player in the making would be enough to make this midfield much better.
 

Koon

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Last time Isco has played 90 minutes was against Barcelona, still october.

After that, 3 matches only, coming from the bench and playing 15~30 minutes.

Today, vs Valencia, he will sit one more time while Ceballos and Llorente will be starters.

It will be so easy to pull him out of there when the winter window opens.

Come on, Liverpool, come on Klopp.