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Who would you buy?

MW2833

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This is exactly it. Why RedForever, who’s seen players come in and have to spend months learning the system, expects players to come in and contribute to the title challenge I don’t know.

Besides, if we short because Keita hasn’t settled, wouldn’t it be better to let him settle than get another body in?
Shaqiri is playing more and more matches as we play 4-2-3-1.
So if one of our front 4 gets injured?
I would rather Werner comes to replace one of the injured players, rather than Origi or Sturridge coming on or Keita playing LW out of his natural position.
Even if we revert back to a 4-3-3, the rest of our front players cannot play every game.
This summer, Sturridge and Origi will move on, harry Wilson may come into the first team and Brewster will also be promoted. AOC will hopefully also have recovered and come back stronger.

But imo we still need an attacking option this January, especially considering our low depth this season and manes relatively poor form.


Besides if we bring Werner in, it should help Keita get settled too due to their past relationship.
 


Anfield rd Dreamer

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This is exactly it. Why RedForever, who’s seen players come in and have to spend months learning the system, expects players to come in and contribute to the title challenge I don’t know.

Besides, if we short because Keita hasn’t settled, wouldn’t it be better to let him settle than get another body in?
3 points.

First Keita isn't going to get settled played out of position, he needs to be put back in his natural CM position so that won't happen till we have more attacking options so he stops being shifted out to fill those gaps. Benefit for the current players.

Second a player who performs as well as Keitas spotty form, who is a natural fit for Klopps attack, will still be an improvement for this season over having to play Lallana, Origi or Sturridge none of which are in good form or good fits anyway themselves. Benefit for this season.

3rd by the new player having that settling in period this season they don't have it next season. By waiting till the summer you're delaying the inevitable. The settling in period is still going to happen. So the player could do it during next season or fire on all cylinders from match day 1 next season. Benefit for next season.
 

GermanRed

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Werner not available this month.

Even a player of his quality would need time to adapt - but we only have 4 months until the end of the season.
 

wibseyred

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First Keita isn't going to get settled played out of position, he needs to be put back in his natural CM position
Sorry but this played out of position stuff is getting silly now. Keita has been here 7 months and has been played in that role more times than not. Do you think he's not training to do that job come the weekend he's been thrown there.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Sorry but this played out of position stuff is getting silly now. Keita has been here 7 months and has been played in that role more times than not. Do you think he's not training to do that job come the weekend he's been thrown there.
He's a CM. He was being bought when we were also targeting Fekir. Fekir plays CAM/number 10 and can cover wide left. We didn't sign Fekir and we have good strong options in CM (especially with Wijnaldum being better this season than last). It's not really surprising to see Keita "filling in" for the failed acquisition of Fekir in some of the roles Fekir would have been used in. Keita is our most creative and attacking CM so it's him or the hardly ever available Lallana that's most likely to do a job for us there. Come on it's hardly a giant leap to make that conclusion is it? But to say his form has been spotty is an understatement. He's shown flashes of what he can offer the team but he's clearly struggling so far. He's pretty much been a CM of one type or other his whole career. It's at least plausible that he'd settle into the team quicker if that was the position he was playing isn't it?
 



Anfield rd Dreamer

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Before Keita was bought, or arrived rather, everyone in here was told by the master of scouts in TIA that he is the player that has the talent to play anywhere in midfield, be it defensive or attacking. Now he has a fixed role, without that he won't succeed?
You missed out the word centre. Anywhere in centre midfield defensive or attacking. Big difference between that and covering for Mane on the left wing.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Facetious sod lol
I honestly don't know anybody who came on here suggesting Keita should be our new winger. I expect those suggesting he be our new number 10 or new DM were both in the minority too. Pretty sure the general opinion was he was, is and should be a CM.
 

lfc.eddie

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You missed out the word centre. Anywhere in centre midfield defensive or attacking. Big difference between that and covering for Mane on the left wing.
Mane hardly hug the line when he plays, does he? Unless you're telling me he can't operate anywhere else other than the centre circle to the 18 yard box "D" zone.
 



Anfield rd Dreamer

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Mane hardly hug the line when he plays, does he? Unless you're telling me he can't operate anywhere else other than the centre circle to the 18 yard box "D" zone.
If you can't tell the difference between the style of play of Sadio Mane and a central midfielder I don't think I should try and discuss tactics with you. A CM might be able to do a job wide, especially if he has some pace. But Mane is a forward. He could even do a job as a CF if we needed him to.
 

lfc.eddie

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If you can't tell the difference between the style of play of Sadio Mane and a central midfielder I don't think I should try and discuss tactics with you. A CM might be able to do a job wide, especially if he has some pace. But Mane is a forward. He could even do a job as a CF if we needed him to.
Yeah I am no tactical genius to comprehend the stringent side of a footballer and how they are fixed in one way while many been talking about the fluidity about our player’s movement.
 

RedForever2014

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This is exactly it. Why RedForever, who’s seen players come in and have to spend months learning the system, expects players to come in and contribute to the title challenge I don’t know.

Besides, if we short because Keita hasn’t settled, wouldn’t it be better to let him settle than get another body in?
I think too much is made of this 'learning the system' issue. There is nothing extraordinary or magical about the way we play, we use a style that many sides use. In fact, many of our performances this season have been so disjointed that it's kind of a none argument.

Keita simply hasn't settled into life in England and/or the Premier League, be that cultural/language or the pace of the game.

This is fine, not every player is what you expect, or settles as quickly as hoped. But what you do is take stock of the situation and act accordingly. You certainly don't use it as an excuse not to sign anyone else.

At the start of the season Sturridge looked like his old self. He has shown glimpses, but he clearly only remains free of injuries by limiting the work he does in training and on the pitch and doesn't contribute enough when called on.

Origi has done one or two good things but is nowhere near rotatable level. Keita has not settled at all. Shaqiri for me is your 5th choice player in a forward squad, he is fine when playing with two of the first choice forwards (or all three), but not enough when asked to be the main man himself, alongside another of the front three or in a shadow front three. Lallana continues to be unreliable, you never know if he's going to be fit and for how long.

This is not good enough, as we sit here today we know that none of the forwards can be rotated without a significant drop off. We know that if we get past Bayern Munich we'll have intense periods with intense midweek CL matches and must win PL matches at the weekend, two of which are against Spurs and Chelsea.

If we play Mane, Salah and Bobby in nearly every match our performances will suffer, as they did in that intense run in September, when we played Chelsea and City in and amongst tough CL matches. The same happened in April and May last season.

That group of 8 attacking midfielders come forwards is not enough to see out the title and go deeper into the CL.

The front three with a similar level 4th option, means you can play two of them and one of the backup group and still be high level. It's a huge step up in terms of challenging on both fronts. Never mind what happens if Bobby, Mo or Mane get injured.

I'm sorry but this isn't good enough. The club is in a wonderful situation, with two major trophies there for the taking but clear identifiable issues in the squad that could be addressed this month.

My own view is that the club is working to financial constraints that are not in keeping with the club's turnover. In part this is because FSG are taking money out via FSM, money that could be the difference between actually winning both the CL and PL this season.

It's bad enough if this is to give the investors a return now, because it's a short term approach when a multi trophy winning LFC would increase long term revenues more than the £30 to £50m that could be spent this window to bolster us.

I actually think a cut of LFC's commercial revenue is being siphoned off by FSG to part fund the Redsox, which is in effect a siphoning of LFC's trophies into Redsox trophies.

LFC will never win what it could over a period of time, against clubs wholly focussed on success, if our owners have agendas of short term financial return or funding other sport franchises they own with a cut of our commercial revenue.

LFC needs to start winning things and regularly. Every possible trophy, year in year out.

The fact that we can't compete in the domestic cups alongside the CL and PL is bad enough. If we can't manage both the PL and CL that's another thing entirely.

You may be happy with glorified near misses, excused away by bad luck, injuries or poor refereeing.

You may be happy for the owners to pick your happiness pocket with their right hand whilst patting you on the head and telling you they value your support with their left.

Perhaps if our support stopped having orgasms at the fees we get for selling players, which aren't even always what they seem (seems like we'll get creamed for £40m on Coutinho), or giving Edwards and FSG a knighthood for merely recycling such money, our fans would see more of the cream in terms of witnessing trophy successes and having bragging rights, instead of FSG's investors and Redsox fans.
 
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Mascot88

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I think too much is made of this 'learning the system' issue. There is nothing extraordinary or magical about the way we play, we use a style that many sides use. In fact, many of our performances this season have been so disjointed that it's kind of a none argument.
Not when we have seen Robertson, Fabinho, Oxlade-Chamberlain, and now Keita be held back and only introduced to the team slowly and carefully.

But what does Klopp know? He has only amassed the third best start to a season in top flight history.

I think your opinion that we just need to go and get someone in is far too simplistic.

For a start, we know Klopp will only spend money to improve the playing staff after all internal options have been exhausted. The market is a last resort. He favours a small group, and likes to be absolutely reassured that the harmony of his squad won’t be risked with a new player.

We know that this is a really good football team, and the better we get, the harder it becomes to add to it.

We also know that top players don’t tend to be available in January. Mostly.

It is a good bet that the club are very interested in Timo Werner. Leipzig have said they will sell in the summer, but he will not move in January.

So what do we do? Forget him and sign someone else not as good, on a whim? Pay Leipzig twice the price in order to tempt them?

And here we go again. I argued with lads on here (possibly you) last summer that Klopp was right to wait after the transfer of Van Dijk collapsed. No no no, I was told. We can’t go into the season with Lovren and Matip. Get anyone. Get Harry Maguire. Get that lad who went to Everton who’s name I’ve forgotten. Get Jonny fucking Evans.

At some point we have to look at Klopp and Edwards record, and actually trust that they know what they are doing.

At the start of the season Sturridge looked like his old self. He has shown glimpses, but he clearly only remains free of injuries by limiting the work he does in training and on the pitch and doesn't contribute enough when called on.

Origi has done one or two good things but is nowhere near rotatable level. Keita has not settled at all. Shaqiri for me is your 5th choice player in a forward squad, he is fine when playing with two of the first choice forwards (or all three), but not enough when asked to be the main man himself, alongside another of the front three or in a shadow front three. Lallana continues to be unreliable, you never know if he's going to be fit and for how long.
I don’t disagree with your assessment of these lads.

For me, Sturridge should be used either as a ten or a nine, in the last half hour of games, if we need a goal (he is still the player most likely to pluck one out of thin air) or we need to slow it down. He is no good when he is trying to manage his was through ninety minutes.

Origi can come in against really shite teams and do a job. Not good enough long term, but fine to get us through to summer when the really good players are likely to become available.

Keita needs time and games (although I’m getting worried about him a bit) and Shaqiri is much more than a fifth choice attacker.

This is not good enough, as we sit here today we know that none of the forwards can be rotated without a significant drop off. We know that if we get past Bayern Munich we'll have intense periods with intense midweek CL matches and must win PL matches at the weekend, two of which are against Spurs and Chelsea.

If we play Mane, Salah and Bobby in nearly every match our performances will suffer, as they did in that intense run in September, when we played Chelsea and City in and amongst tough CL matches. The same happened in April and May last season.

That group of 8 attacking midfielders come forwards is not enough to see out the title and go deeper into the CL.

The front three with a similar level 4th option, means you can play two of them and one of the backup group and still be high level. It's a huge step up in terms of challenging on both fronts. Never mind what happens if Bobby, Mo or Mane get injured.

I'm sorry but this isn't good enough. The club is in a wonderful situation, with two major trophies there for the taking but clear identifiable issues in the squad that could be addressed this month.
You say they can be addressed this month, but given what we know about Klopp, can they?

Do you want him to be a Harry Redknapp type, leaning out of his car window telling Sky that he is trying to get this boy in, trying to move this boy out?

Klopp knows what he wants for the squad. If it’s available this month, he’ll get it done. If it isn’t, he won’t panic - a tactic that has served him well so far.

My own view is that the club is working to financial constraints that are not in keeping with the club's turnover. In part this is because FSG are taking money out via FSM, money that could be the difference between actually winning both the CL and PL this season.

It's bad enough if this is to give the investors a return now, because it's a short term approach when a multi trophy winning LFC would increase long term revenues more than the £30 to £50m that could be spent this window to bolster us.

I actually think a cut of LFC's commercial revenue is being siphoned off by FSG to part fund the Redsox, which is in effect a siphoning of LFC's trophies into Redsox trophies.
You keep saying this, and making the allegation that the sums involved are significant enough to have a serious effect on our ability to compete.

I think you need to put some evidence behind this now. Otherwise it’s just a silly conspiracy theory.

I think what you are doing is deflecting the blame for a what you perceive to be a failure onto a more palatable scapegoat.

You think Liverpool should spend more money. I get that, even if I personally disagree.

But I think the reason Liverpool don’t spend more money is primarily Jurgen Klopp, and not FSG - for all the reasons highlighted above. But you don’t want to blame Klopp, because he is pretty much untouchable at this point, and you’d look ridiculous. So FSG are the obvious target, even if it means you have to make stuff up about them using LFC to finance the Red Sox.

The start and end of this should be is the money there for Klopp when he wants to improve the squad. The answer to that has always been yes. And that means I’m happy.
 

RedForever2014

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Not when we have seen Robertson, Fabinho, Oxlade-Chamberlain, and now Keita be held back and only introduced to the team slowly and carefully.

But what does Klopp know? He has only amassed the third best start to a season in top flight history.

I think your opinion that we just need to go and get someone in is far too simplistic.

For a start, we know Klopp will only spend money to improve the playing staff after all internal options have been exhausted. The market is a last resort. He favours a small group, and likes to be absolutely reassured that the harmony of his squad won’t be risked with a new player.

We know that this is a really good football team, and the better we get, the harder it becomes to add to it.

We also know that top players don’t tend to be available in January. Mostly.

It is a good bet that the club are very interested in Timo Werner. Leipzig have said they will sell in the summer, but he will not move in January.

So what do we do? Forget him and sign someone else not as good, on a whim? Pay Leipzig twice the price in order to tempt them?

And here we go again. I argued with lads on here (possibly you) last summer that Klopp was right to wait after the transfer of Van Dijk collapsed. No no no, I was told. We can’t go into the season with Lovren and Matip. Get anyone. Get Harry Maguire. Get that lad who went to Everton who’s name I’ve forgotten. Get Jonny fucking Evans.

At some point we have to look at Klopp and Edwards record, and actually trust that they know what they are doing.



I don’t disagree with your assessment of these lads.

For me, Sturridge should be used either as a ten or a nine, in the last half hour of games, if we need a goal (he is still the player most likely to pluck one out of thin air) or we need to slow it down. He is no good when he is trying to manage his was through ninety minutes.

Origi can come in against really shite teams and do a job. Not good enough long term, but fine to get us through to summer when the really good players are likely to become available.

Keita needs time and games (although I’m getting worried about him a bit) and Shaqiri is much more than a fifth choice attacker.



You say they can be addressed this month, but given what we know about Klopp, can they?

Do you want him to be a Harry Redknapp type, leaning out of his car window telling Sky that he is trying to get this boy in, trying to move this boy out?

Klopp knows what he wants for the squad. If it’s available this month, he’ll get it done. If it isn’t, he won’t panic - a tactic that has served him well so far.



You keep saying this, and making the allegation that the sums involved are significant enough to have a serious effect on our ability to compete.

I think you need to put some evidence behind this now. Otherwise it’s just a silly conspiracy theory.

I think what you are doing is deflecting the blame for a what you perceive to be a failure onto a more palatable scapegoat.

You think Liverpool should spend more money. I get that, even if I personally disagree.

But I think the reason Liverpool don’t spend more money is primarily Jurgen Klopp, and not FSG - for all the reasons highlighted above. But you don’t want to blame Klopp, because he is pretty much untouchable at this point, and you’d look ridiculous. So FSG are the obvious target, even if it means you have to make stuff up about them using LFC to finance the Red Sox.

The start and end of this should be is the money there for Klopp when he wants to improve the squad. The answer to that has always been yes. And that means I’m happy.
As always there is merit in your points, we just disagree on some of them.

Re the centre backs, my argument at the time was actually to improve on Matip or Lovren with a signing whilst waiting for VVD, a signing we still need to make. Nobody said sign someone instead of VVD.

Either/or can never be proven. We can never know if we'd have won the CL if we'd had another option on the bench, or whether whatever we do achieve this season could have been better if we'd done something this month.

What I do know is that we went for Fekir, and if Alisson wasn't bought instead with the money, we still lack that signing we actually were on the brink of making.

No player has filled that gap. Not Shaqiri, not Keita, not Lallana, not Sturridge or Origi.

So I still believe we are that signing short and that at the very least we could potentially get someone who can impact things from the bench, even if on loan.

There will be few matches against dross who that lot can influence, but plenty that a good quality 4th option could.
 

Red over the water

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We are in a position where we don’t have to force anything. If an opportunity presents itself I’m sure we will take it, but we won’t settle for something we don’t really want. We need a couple of good signings, say Werner and Kelly, something like that, but if they aren’t available now we will carry on. Arguably we might need one or two more, depending on outgoings and promoting from within.

We are already clearing the decks somewhat, especially up front. Ings last summer, Solanke now, and not many would bet on both Origi and Sturridge being here beyond summer. It’s all shaping up for a Werner - or similar, incoming. In the meantime having sold Solanke, I would imagine we will keep Origi to the end of the season to tide us over.

Kelly is tall and can play left back and centre back. If he has a chance to get to the level of Joe Gomez we should be all over that, but I honestly haven’t seen him play.

Apart from a very undesirable departure to one of our big players, I don’t expect us to spend the sort of money we saw last year. I think we will have the money to buy one big player (everyone keeps saying Werner, and I’m fully on board with that) plus say a solid squad man, depending on outgoings. Beyond that a couple of highly rated younger players who haven’t quite broke though yet, but are well scouted and can come to our finishing school. The way the game has changed even players like that will cost a pretty penny. If we unearth a Robertson-type bargain then great, but generally speaking this is the sort of level of business I’d expect us to do.
 

Iluvatar

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As always there is merit in your points, we just disagree on some of them.

Re the centre backs, my argument at the time was actually to improve on Matip or Lovren with a signing whilst waiting for VVD, a signing we still need to make. Nobody said sign someone instead of VVD.

Either/or can never be proven. We can never know if we'd have won the CL if we'd had another option on the bench, or whether whatever we do achieve this season could have been better if we'd done something this month.

What I do know is that we went for Fekir, and if Alisson wasn't bought instead with the money, we still lack that signing we actually were on the brink of making.

No player has filled that gap. Not Shaqiri, not Keita, not Lallana, not Sturridge or Origi.


So I still believe we are that signing short and that at the very least we could potentially get someone who can impact things from the bench, even if on loan.

There will be few matches against dross who that lot can influence, but plenty that a good quality 4th option could.
What is the Shaqiri signing to you then? Does he not fit the "Fekir" slot? I.e. a forward who can operate at attacking midfield?

Do you not see the shift which has Firmino also dropping deep to provide a similar role that Fekir would have?
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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What is the Shaqiri signing to you then? Does he not fit the "Fekir" slot? I.e. a forward who can operate at attacking midfield?

Do you not see the shift which has Firmino also dropping deep to provide a similar role that Fekir would have?
Personally think we wanted Shaqiri and Fekir. When you look at the positions Fekir would have been appropriate for (I think) CAM false 9 and LFwd. Keita and Salah/Firmino have basically covered those whilst Shaqiri covers most of the games at RFwd allowing Salah to be central.
 



Iluvatar

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Personally think we wanted Shaqiri and Fekir. When you look at the positions Fekir would have been appropriate for (I think) CAM false 9 and LFwd. Keita and Salah/Firmino have basically covered those whilst Shaqiri covers most of the games at RFwd allowing Salah to be central.
Hard one to gage, I disagree primarily because I think Klopp banked on Lallana playing far more minutes than he has. So the options for that role were Shaqiri + Lallana and next season Shaqiri and Oxlade, but injuries has forced a re-think.

We played Salah central a lot of the 2nd half of last season so I wouldn't say that change was a new shift. His off the ball movement is elite so it makes sense now you see it.
 

Red Ted

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I think too much is made of this 'learning the system' issue. There is nothing extraordinary or magical about the way we play, we use a style that many sides use. In fact, many of our performances this season have been so disjointed that it's kind of a none argument.

Keita simply hasn't settled into life in England and/or the Premier League, be that cultural/language or the pace of the game.

This is fine, not every player is what you expect, or settles as quickly as hoped. But what you do is take stock of the situation and act accordingly. You certainly don't use it as an excuse not to sign anyone else.
Completely agree with this, way too much is made of learning the system, you'd think it was some highly advanced mathematical equation from some of the stuff you hear, it's just a football system, plenty of players have gone straight in and been fine.

Keita was starting games right from the off, he just wasn't good enough & other players were doing a better job than him, in hindsight not that his performance was anything special but the West Ham game was a bit of a red herring regards Keita because they were really shit.
 

GermanRed

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Outs in the summer:

Sturridge, Origi, Markovic, Lallana (he finally made it on my list last week), Moreno, Clyne and Mignolet.

Brewster + someone like Werner in.

Ox and Grujic to get the minutes of Milner and Lallana in midfield.

Milner to cover LB and RB.

Replace Mignolet with Grabara or bring in a senior GK.
 

Iluvatar

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Completely agree with this, way too much is made of learning the system, you'd think it was some highly advanced mathematical equation from some of the stuff you hear, it's just a football system, plenty of players have gone straight in and been fine.

Keita was starting games right from the off, he just wasn't good enough & other players were doing a better job than him, in hindsight not that his performance was anything special but the West Ham game was a bit of a red herring regards Keita because they were really shit.
Why do you disagree? Every single player has said we operate this way, even Robertson said after Brighton the exact same thing. Oxlade, Robertson are prime examples of this. Just because some players pick it up sooner doesn't mean it's not complicated. Some players may have played similar, some may get thrust into playing earlier due to injuries and just pick it up quicker (probably easier playing a few games and then analyzing what you did wrong) but that carries a huge risk that someone is out of position and we conceed.

Also midfield is one of the hardest positions to get up to speed with in Klopp's system. Historically Kravitz sits down with all new players and takes them through hours and hours of videos showing how we work, how we transition, how we press, how we move into space etc. The players are then expected to continue to review these.

You can see now with Shaqiri in midfield, he clearly isn't defending/moving as Klopp wants him to (Klopp basically berated him all game against Brighton). It just shows he hasn't adapted or learn the system yet.
 

Red Ted

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Why do you disagree? Every single player has said we operate this way, even Robertson said after Brighton the exact same thing. Oxlade, Robertson are prime examples of this. Just because some players pick it up sooner doesn't mean it's not complicated. Some players may have played similar, some may get thrust into playing earlier due to injuries and just pick it up quicker (probably easier playing a few games and then analyzing what you did wrong) but that carries a huge risk that someone is out of position and we conceed.

Also midfield is one of the hardest positions to get up to speed with in Klopp's system. Historically Kravitz sits down with all new players and takes them through hours and hours of videos showing how we work, how we transition, how we press, how we move into space etc. The players are then expected to continue to review these.

You can see now with Shaqiri in midfield, he clearly isn't defending/moving as Klopp wants him to (Klopp basically berated him all game against Brighton). It just shows he hasn't adapted or learn the system yet.
I agree with the other poster because too much is being made of integrating into the system, we haven't got some mystical way of playing, it's just a football system, every other club has one & every player plays in one.

When has this ever really been an issue? There might be the odd exception but you just never heard this narrative before Klopp at Liverpool or at any other clubs, some players are bedded in slowly mainly to get used to the pace/intensity English football, not because they are befuddled by the system they have to play in so need months on end or even a season to work it out.

Van Dijk, Salah, Mane came in and excelled from the off, Keita's problems run much deeper than learning a system, he's just out of his depth in English football right now, well off the pace in all aspects of his game bar the odd nice dribble.

Chamberlain being eased into midfield was understandable because playing center midfield was a completely new role for him, Fabinho had to get past Wijnaldum who along with Van Dijk & Gomez was our best player in the first months of the season & still is playing very well in that deep role, now mainly alongside Fabinho, us doing really well held Fabinho back too, Klopp obviously didn't want to mess around too much with it.

I think Klopp wanted to give Moreno one real last chance hence Robertson not being given the nod straight away, I remember before Roberston fully took the position from Moreno that he came in a played a game or 2 and looked vastly surperior to Moreno, god knows why Klopp persisted with Moreno, if he has one fault it's misguided loyalty/belief in some players, only the start of last season Mignolet, Moreno & Lovren were 3 of our starting back 5, that was the only time I had some real doubts creep in about Klopp because of that poor judgement, he had been here long enough to know a lot better.

I'm not arguing there is nothing for players to learn & adapt to when it comes to our system/structures, just that it is nowhere near the issue it's made out to be by some fans.

Also I think it can be a kind way for Klopp to say the player isn't playing well enough right now to get in the team.
 
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RedForever2014

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What is the Shaqiri signing to you then? Does he not fit the "Fekir" slot? I.e. a forward who can operate at attacking midfield?

Do you not see the shift which has Firmino also dropping deep to provide a similar role that Fekir would have?
Nice to see you coming around to the view that the club went for Shaqiri instead of Fekir because he was cheaper.
 

CymruRed

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Why do you disagree? Every single player has said we operate this way, even Robertson said after Brighton the exact same thing. Oxlade, Robertson are prime examples of this. Just because some players pick it up sooner doesn't mean it's not complicated. Some players may have played similar, some may get thrust into playing earlier due to injuries and just pick it up quicker (probably easier playing a few games and then analyzing what you did wrong) but that carries a huge risk that someone is out of position and we conceed.

Also midfield is one of the hardest positions to get up to speed with in Klopp's system. Historically Kravitz sits down with all new players and takes them through hours and hours of videos showing how we work, how we transition, how we press, how we move into space etc. The players are then expected to continue to review these.

You can see now with Shaqiri in midfield, he clearly isn't defending/moving as Klopp wants him to (Klopp basically berated him all game against Brighton). It just shows he hasn't adapted or learn the system yet.

Exactly this,some people think it's just lace your boots up,get on the pitch and play,maybe not the best example but look at Pogba,classed as one of the best midfield talents around,but when asked to play a defensive/tactical style of football he is shit,ok that may have been down to his attitude and ego,but still,he was half the player playing out of his comfort zone,in a style he either couldn't or didn't want to learn and being tactically suffocated.

Not only having players having to come in and learn a new style of play,lets be honest here,footballers aren't known for being blessed with a huge amount of brain cells,so it's understandable that some pick up tactics quicker than others or just have a far greater knowledge of the way football works and so can slip into our style more effortlessly.

Fabinho also mentioned earlier this season,that he hadn't quite got to grips with Klopps tactics/style of play but it was great training at the moment because he was learning things he'd never done throughout his career in Brazil,Spain and France,so even a really good defensive midfielder,with a fair bit of experience under his belt,has taken time to adapt and he's playing in his normal position (that happend months before being asked to play at center back lol).
 

ILLOK

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Chamberlain being eased into midfield was understandable because playing center midfield was a completely new role for him, Fabinho had to get past Wijnaldum who along with Van Dijk & Gomez was our best player in the first months of the season & still is playing very well in that deep role, now mainly alongside Fabinho, us doing really well held Fabinho back too, Klopp obviously didn't want to mess around too much with it.
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Chamberlain had been playing in midfield for Arsenal, it wasn't a new role for him.

None of our current midfielders excelled straight away under Klopp in the midfield. Henderson and Milner improved with time, Lallana played a different role first and Fabinho and Chamberlain took a few months before they started producing what Klopp wanted. I doubt anyone would argue Wijnaldum hasn't improved significantly with time either.

Keita doesn't look out of his depth at all he's just not quite as good as the other options at this point in time though there were moments in this season in which the opposite was true. It's being so massively overstated how much he has struggled.
 

Iluvatar

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Nice to see you coming around to the view that the club went for Shaqiri instead of Fekir because he was cheaper.
Well no I doubt it had anything to do with price. He was a fantastic buy price wise of course, but I doubt it was the driver.
 

ILLOK

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Nice to see you coming around to the view that the club went for Shaqiri instead of Fekir because he was cheaper.
If that was true why would the club have bothered to go so far with the Fekir deal? Maybe it was just one big ruse orchestrated by the owners to fool the fans into thinking they were willing to spend that much money?

I get the impression you'd be happier if we bought the exact same players but added an extra 10 million on to each of their price tags.