Who would you buy?

[Red over the water]

We are in a position where we don’t have to force anything. If an opportunity presents itself I’m sure we will take it, but we won’t settle for something we don’t really want. We need a couple of good signings, say Werner and Kelly, something like that, but if they aren’t available now we will carry on. Arguably we might need one or two more, depending on outgoings and promoting from within.

We are already clearing the decks somewhat, especially up front. Ings last summer, Solanke now, and not many would bet on both Origi and Sturridge being here beyond summer. It’s all shaping up for a Werner - or similar, incoming. In the meantime having sold Solanke, I would imagine we will keep Origi to the end of the season to tide us over.

Kelly is tall and can play left back and centre back. If he has a chance to get to the level of Joe Gomez we should be all over that, but I honestly haven’t seen him play.

Apart from a very undesirable departure to one of our big players, I don’t expect us to spend the sort of money we saw last year. I think we will have the money to buy one big player (everyone keeps saying Werner, and I’m fully on board with that) plus say a solid squad man, depending on outgoings. Beyond that a couple of highly rated younger players who haven’t quite broke though yet, but are well scouted and can come to our finishing school. The way the game has changed even players like that will cost a pretty penny. If we unearth a Robertson-type bargain then great, but generally speaking this is the sort of level of business I’d expect us to do.

 

[Iluvatar]

As always there is merit in your points, we just disagree on some of them.

Re the centre backs, my argument at the time was actually to improve on Matip or Lovren with a signing whilst waiting for VVD, a signing we still need to make. Nobody said sign someone instead of VVD.

Either/or can never be proven. We can never know if we'd have won the CL if we'd had another option on the bench, or whether whatever we do achieve this season could have been better if we'd done something this month.

What I do know is that we went for Fekir, and if Alisson wasn't bought instead with the money, we still lack that signing we actually were on the brink of making.

No player has filled that gap. Not Shaqiri, not Keita, not Lallana, not Sturridge or Origi.

So I still believe we are that signing short and that at the very least we could potentially get someone who can impact things from the bench, even if on loan.

There will be few matches against dross who that lot can influence, but plenty that a good quality 4th option could.

What is the Shaqiri signing to you then? Does he not fit the "Fekir" slot? I.e. a forward who can operate at attacking midfield?

Do you not see the shift which has Firmino also dropping deep to provide a similar role that Fekir would have?

 

[Anfield rd Dreamer]

What is the Shaqiri signing to you then? Does he not fit the "Fekir" slot? I.e. a forward who can operate at attacking midfield?

Do you not see the shift which has Firmino also dropping deep to provide a similar role that Fekir would have?

Personally think we wanted Shaqiri and Fekir. When you look at the positions Fekir would have been appropriate for (I think) CAM false 9 and LFwd. Keita and Salah/Firmino have basically covered those whilst Shaqiri covers most of the games at RFwd allowing Salah to be central.

 

[Iluvatar]

Personally think we wanted Shaqiri and Fekir. When you look at the positions Fekir would have been appropriate for (I think) CAM false 9 and LFwd. Keita and Salah/Firmino have basically covered those whilst Shaqiri covers most of the games at RFwd allowing Salah to be central.

Hard one to gage, I disagree primarily because I think Klopp banked on Lallana playing far more minutes than he has. So the options for that role were Shaqiri + Lallana and next season Shaqiri and Oxlade, but injuries has forced a re-think.

We played Salah central a lot of the 2nd half of last season so I wouldn't say that change was a new shift. His off the ball movement is elite so it makes sense now you see it.

 

[Red Ted]

I think too much is made of this 'learning the system' issue. There is nothing extraordinary or magical about the way we play, we use a style that many sides use. In fact, many of our performances this season have been so disjointed that it's kind of a none argument.

Keita simply hasn't settled into life in England and/or the Premier League, be that cultural/language or the pace of the game.

This is fine, not every player is what you expect, or settles as quickly as hoped. But what you do is take stock of the situation and act accordingly. You certainly don't use it as an excuse not to sign anyone else.

Completely agree with this, way too much is made of learning the system, you'd think it was some highly advanced mathematical equation from some of the stuff you hear, it's just a football system, plenty of players have gone straight in and been fine.

Keita was starting games right from the off, he just wasn't good enough & other players were doing a better job than him, in hindsight not that his performance was anything special but the West Ham game was a bit of a red herring regards Keita because they were really shit.

 

[GermanRed]

Outs in the summer:

Sturridge, Origi, Markovic, Lallana (he finally made it on my list last week), Moreno, Clyne and Mignolet.

Brewster + someone like Werner in.

Ox and Grujic to get the minutes of Milner and Lallana in midfield.

Milner to cover LB and RB.

Replace Mignolet with Grabara or bring in a senior GK.

 

[Iluvatar]

Completely agree with this, way too much is made of learning the system, you'd think it was some highly advanced mathematical equation from some of the stuff you hear, it's just a football system, plenty of players have gone straight in and been fine.

Keita was starting games right from the off, he just wasn't good enough & other players were doing a better job than him, in hindsight not that his performance was anything special but the West Ham game was a bit of a red herring regards Keita because they were really shit.

Why do you disagree? Every single player has said we operate this way, even Robertson said after Brighton the exact same thing. Oxlade, Robertson are prime examples of this. Just because some players pick it up sooner doesn't mean it's not complicated. Some players may have played similar, some may get thrust into playing earlier due to injuries and just pick it up quicker (probably easier playing a few games and then analyzing what you did wrong) but that carries a huge risk that someone is out of position and we conceed.

Also midfield is one of the hardest positions to get up to speed with in Klopp's system. Historically Kravitz sits down with all new players and takes them through hours and hours of videos showing how we work, how we transition, how we press, how we move into space etc. The players are then expected to continue to review these.

You can see now with Shaqiri in midfield, he clearly isn't defending/moving as Klopp wants him to (Klopp basically berated him all game against Brighton). It just shows he hasn't adapted or learn the system yet.

 

[Red Ted]

Why do you disagree? Every single player has said we operate this way, even Robertson said after Brighton the exact same thing. Oxlade, Robertson are prime examples of this. Just because some players pick it up sooner doesn't mean it's not complicated. Some players may have played similar, some may get thrust into playing earlier due to injuries and just pick it up quicker (probably easier playing a few games and then analyzing what you did wrong) but that carries a huge risk that someone is out of position and we conceed.

Also midfield is one of the hardest positions to get up to speed with in Klopp's system. Historically Kravitz sits down with all new players and takes them through hours and hours of videos showing how we work, how we transition, how we press, how we move into space etc. The players are then expected to continue to review these.

You can see now with Shaqiri in midfield, he clearly isn't defending/moving as Klopp wants him to (Klopp basically berated him all game against Brighton). It just shows he hasn't adapted or learn the system yet.

I agree with the other poster because too much is being made of integrating into the system, we haven't got some mystical way of playing, it's just a football system, every other club has one & every player plays in one.

When has this ever really been an issue? There might be the odd exception but you just never heard this narrative before Klopp at Liverpool or at any other clubs, some players are bedded in slowly mainly to get used to the pace/intensity English football, not because they are befuddled by the system they have to play in so need months on end or even a season to work it out.

Van Dijk, Salah, Mane came in and excelled from the off, Keita's problems run much deeper than learning a system, he's just out of his depth in English football right now, well off the pace in all aspects of his game bar the odd nice dribble.

Chamberlain being eased into midfield was understandable because playing center midfield was a completely new role for him, Fabinho had to get past Wijnaldum who along with Van Dijk & Gomez was our best player in the first months of the season & still is playing very well in that deep role, now mainly alongside Fabinho, us doing really well held Fabinho back too, Klopp obviously didn't want to mess around too much with it.

I think Klopp wanted to give Moreno one real last chance hence Robertson not being given the nod straight away, I remember before Roberston fully took the position from Moreno that he came in a played a game or 2 and looked vastly surperior to Moreno, god knows why Klopp persisted with Moreno, if he has one fault it's misguided loyalty/belief in some players, only the start of last season Mignolet, Moreno & Lovren were 3 of our starting back 5, that was the only time I had some real doubts creep in about Klopp because of that poor judgement, he had been here long enough to know a lot better.

I'm not arguing there is nothing for players to learn & adapt to when it comes to our system/structures, just that it is nowhere near the issue it's made out to be by some fans.

Also I think it can be a kind way for Klopp to say the player isn't playing well enough right now to get in the team.

 

[RedForever2014]

What is the Shaqiri signing to you then? Does he not fit the "Fekir" slot? I.e. a forward who can operate at attacking midfield?

Do you not see the shift which has Firmino also dropping deep to provide a similar role that Fekir would have?

Nice to see you coming around to the view that the club went for Shaqiri instead of Fekir because he was cheaper.

 

[CymruRed]

Why do you disagree? Every single player has said we operate this way, even Robertson said after Brighton the exact same thing. Oxlade, Robertson are prime examples of this. Just because some players pick it up sooner doesn't mean it's not complicated. Some players may have played similar, some may get thrust into playing earlier due to injuries and just pick it up quicker (probably easier playing a few games and then analyzing what you did wrong) but that carries a huge risk that someone is out of position and we conceed.

Also midfield is one of the hardest positions to get up to speed with in Klopp's system. Historically Kravitz sits down with all new players and takes them through hours and hours of videos showing how we work, how we transition, how we press, how we move into space etc. The players are then expected to continue to review these.

You can see now with Shaqiri in midfield, he clearly isn't defending/moving as Klopp wants him to (Klopp basically berated him all game against Brighton). It just shows he hasn't adapted or learn the system yet.

Exactly this,some people think it's just lace your boots up,get on the pitch and play,maybe not the best example but look at Pogba,classed as one of the best midfield talents around,but when asked to play a defensive/tactical style of football he is shit,ok that may have been down to his attitude and ego,but still,he was half the player playing out of his comfort zone,in a style he either couldn't or didn't want to learn and being tactically suffocated.

Not only having players having to come in and learn a new style of play,lets be honest here,footballers aren't known for being blessed with a huge amount of brain cells,so it's understandable that some pick up tactics quicker than others or just have a far greater knowledge of the way football works and so can slip into our style more effortlessly.

Fabinho also mentioned earlier this season,that he hadn't quite got to grips with Klopps tactics/style of play but it was great training at the moment because he was learning things he'd never done throughout his career in Brazil,Spain and France,so even a really good defensive midfielder,with a fair bit of experience under his belt,has taken time to adapt and he's playing in his normal position (that happend months before being asked to play at center back lol).

 

[ILLOK]

Chamberlain being eased into midfield was understandable because playing center midfield was a completely new role for him, Fabinho had to get past Wijnaldum who along with Van Dijk & Gomez was our best player in the first months of the season & still is playing very well in that deep role, now mainly alongside Fabinho, us doing really well held Fabinho back too, Klopp obviously didn't want to mess around too much with it.
.

Chamberlain had been playing in midfield for Arsenal, it wasn't a new role for him.

None of our current midfielders excelled straight away under Klopp in the midfield. Henderson and Milner improved with time, Lallana played a different role first and Fabinho and Chamberlain took a few months before they started producing what Klopp wanted. I doubt anyone would argue Wijnaldum hasn't improved significantly with time either.

Keita doesn't look out of his depth at all he's just not quite as good as the other options at this point in time though there were moments in this season in which the opposite was true. It's being so massively overstated how much he has struggled.

 

[Iluvatar]

Nice to see you coming around to the view that the club went for Shaqiri instead of Fekir because he was cheaper.

Well no I doubt it had anything to do with price. He was a fantastic buy price wise of course, but I doubt it was the driver.

 

[ILLOK]

Nice to see you coming around to the view that the club went for Shaqiri instead of Fekir because he was cheaper.

If that was true why would the club have bothered to go so far with the Fekir deal? Maybe it was just one big ruse orchestrated by the owners to fool the fans into thinking they were willing to spend that much money?

I get the impression you'd be happier if we bought the exact same players but added an extra 10 million on to each of their price tags.

 

[Mascot88]

If that was true why would the club have bothered to go so far with the Fekir deal? Maybe it was just one big ruse orchestrated by the owners to fool the fans into thinking they were willing to spend that much money?

I get the impression you'd be happier if we bought the exact same players but added an extra 10 million on to each of their price tags.

I often think about this.

Imagine if we bought Robertson for £30m, Trent for £20m, Shaqiri for £25, Gomez for £20m, and Salah for £60m - prices much more realistic in view of how they’ve contributed. No-one would be complaining about the spending then, and we’d have exactly the same squad.

At some point we have to accept we’re just bitching at the club for having a bit of financial savvy.

 

[Zinedine Biscan]

I often think about this.

Imagine if we bought Robertson for £30m, Trent for £20m, Shaqiri for £25, Gomez for £20m, and Salah for £60m - prices much more realistic in view of how they’ve contributed. No-one would be complaining about the spending then, and we’d have exactly the same squad.

At some point we have to accept we’re just bitching at the club for having a bit of financial savvy.

I object to the use of 'we' in that statement... ¬_¬

 

[MW2833]

I often think about this.

Imagine if we bought Robertson for £30m, Trent for £20m, Shaqiri for £25, Gomez for £20m, and Salah for £60m - prices much more realistic in view of how they’ve contributed. No-one would be complaining about the spending then, and we’d have exactly the same squad.

At some point we have to accept we’re just bitching at the club for having a bit of financial savvy.

Shaqiri for £25?
Should be worth around a million times more (no exaggeration intended)

 

[Kopstar]

I object to the use of 'we' in that statement... ¬_¬

Yet more bitching from you ZB. Just give it a rest, ffs. :tongue:

 

[RedForever2014]

I often think about this.

Imagine if we bought Robertson for £30m, Trent for £20m, Shaqiri for £25, Gomez for £20m, and Salah for £60m - prices much more realistic in view of how they’ve contributed. No-one would be complaining about the spending then, and we’d have exactly the same squad.

At some point we have to accept we’re just bitching at the club for having a bit of financial savvy.

We're bitching at the club for not taking advantage of the fact that it bought well in many cases, thus accelerating the progress of the club, by using the money saved to complete the job of building a squad that can compete on all fronts.

Our ability to compete in both the CL and PL simultaneously is hindered by the lack of depth in the forwards.

We cannot go very far in the domestic cups because of the lack of depth in the squad generally.

You really telling me there is no player out there, who would be an improvement on what we have up top beyond Bobby, Mo and Mane, who could be signed this month, who would increase our chances of getting to the CL latter stages again whilst staying the course in the league?

If everyone remains fit we might win the league and stay in the CL regardless, but a few injuries would seriously hamper both opportunities, and a deeper squad now would mitigate this risk and improve our chances.

It's great that we're doing well, but my view remains that this is despite unnecessary frugality rather than because we're moving heaven and earth to cement our chances.

 

[ILLOK]

You really telling me there is no player out there, who would be an improvement on what we have up top beyond Bobby, Mo and Mane, who could be signed this month, who would increase our chances of getting to the CL latter stages again whilst staying the course in the league?

If we'd had this mentality in the summer of 2017 Van Dijk would probably be playing for City right now and we'd have exactly 0% chance of catching up with them.

 

[CymruRed]

(I'm) bitching at the club for not taking advantage of the fact that it bought well in many cases, thus accelerating the progress of the club, by using the money saved to complete the job of building a squad that can compete on all fronts.

Our ability to compete in both the CL and PL simultaneously is hindered by the lack of depth in the forwards.

We cannot go very far in the domestic cups because of the lack of depth in the squad generally.

You really telling me there is no player out there, who would be an improvement on what we have up top beyond Bobby, Mo and Mane, who could be signed this month, who would increase our chances of getting to the CL latter stages again whilst staying the course in the league?

If everyone remains fit we might win the league and stay in the CL regardless, but a few injuries would seriously hamper both opportunities, and a deeper squad now would mitigate this risk and improve our chances.

It's great that we're doing well, but my view remains that this is despite unnecessary frugality rather than because we're moving heaven and earth to cement our chances.

Fixed lol

Is it hard to understand that things just aren't as simple as having money and buying a player?

All the facts and reasons as to why we haven't bought anyone in this january window,have been put forward for you to read,and you still come back with the same stuff.

We have money to spend,if a player doesn't come in then OBVIOUSLY Klopp (or selling club/player) has decided not to make it happen,for financial or squad reasons,not because of FSG.

 

[ILLOK]

Getting this thread back on track...

Saw that evening standard are suggesting Chelsea are in for Paredes.....

Looks like Chelsea are going for yet another defensively minded midfielder.

Why don't we be kind enough to solve their Kante problem for them? He's great in a midfield '2' and that's the direction we appear to be going in whilst Sarri very obviously prefers the '3', and whilst he's still very good he's not quite the same player.

 

[RedForever2014]

Fixed lol

Is it hard to understand that things just aren't as simple as having money and buying a player?

All the facts and reasons as to why we haven't bought anyone in this january window,have been put forward for you to read,and you still come back with the same stuff.

We have money to spend,if a player doesn't come in then OBVIOUSLY Klopp (or selling club/player) has decided not to make it happen,for financial or squad reasons,not because of FSG.

There are no facts about why, just opinions.

IMO we need somebody to cement our chances.

If we win both the CL and PL you can say I told you so, if we win neither I'll do the same.

Ultimately LFC remains nearly men, an also ran, until it wins something major and then does so again.

 

[Zoran]

Looks like Chelsea are going for yet another defensively minded midfielder.

He's a deep lying playmaker, I think he's one of their options on the market to be backup to Jorginho (with Cesc moving). Don't know if Sarri would be willing to use him in one of the two advanced #8's though.

With Kante, yeah, you could say there are arguments for him to maybe start considering offers... but I feel the other midfield space will be up for grabs with Kovacic not impressing that much so far. Plus, Chelsea probably won't be willing to let Kante go to another top 6 club.

 

[Red Ted]

Chamberlain had been playing in midfield for Arsenal, it wasn't a new role for him.

None of our current midfielders excelled straight away under Klopp in the midfield. Henderson and Milner improved with time, Lallana played a different role first and Fabinho and Chamberlain took a few months before they started producing what Klopp wanted. I doubt anyone would argue Wijnaldum hasn't improved significantly with time either.

Keita doesn't look out of his depth at all he's just not quite as good as the other options at this point in time though there were moments in this season in which the opposite was true. It's being so massively overstated how much he has struggled.

Chamberlain wasn't a central midfielder for Arsenal & Keita doesn't look out of his depth at all? You're talking some nonsense there.

Keita is clearly struggling quite badly with the pace & physicality of the English game, that's the real problem/s with him, he looked like a fan that had won a raffle to come on and play 5 minutes against Brighton & was woeful against Wolves in slower then usual paced game, his only 2 performances that were genuinely encouraging were Burnley & West Ham.

You say massively overstated regarding Keita's form, I say massively overstated this new invention of football players taking an age to learn a football system & being excused playing poorly because of it, especially our ones, actually only our ones because you don't see this excuse/issue blown up like this anywhere else.

 

[ILLOK]

Chamberlain wasn't a central midfielder for Arsenal .You're talking some nonsense there.

Chamberlain had played centre mid for Arsenal a number of times and always looked good there hence why plenty of us on here thought he would get minutes there for us. It wasn't a completely new role for him at all.

 

[Mascot88]

Chamberlain had played centre mid for Arsenal a number of times and always looked good there hence why plenty of us on here thought he would get minutes there for us. It wasn't a completely new role for him at all.

I thought one of the reasons he left was that he wanted to be played at centre mid? In that he’d done bits there for Arsenal and felt it was his best position.

 

[Kopstar]

Chamberlain had played centre mid for Arsenal a number of times and always looked good there hence why plenty of us on here thought he would get minutes there for us. It wasn't a completely new role for him at all.

He'd played centre midfield for England as well and looked good there. That's precisely where we bought him to play for us, in that 8 role. If we had him available this year showing his form of last year we'd be incredible. It's the only part of our team that is slightly lacking cohesion.

 

[Iluvatar]

Getting this thread back on track...
Looks like Chelsea are going for yet another defensively minded midfielder.

Why don't we be kind enough to solve their Kante problem for them? He's great in a midfield '2' and that's the direction we appear to be going in whilst Sarri very obviously prefers the '3', and whilst he's still very good he's not quite the same player.

Id love Kante here, he’s a fucking unbelievable person as well. Him Keita and Fabinho would just destroy teams.

 

[Red Ted]

I thought one of the reasons he left was that he wanted to be played at centre mid? In that he’d done bits there for Arsenal and felt it was his best position.

It was.

I'd like to see when he played in central midfield for them, I guess when their usual injury crisis hit & he filled in because it was never a specialist role for him under Wenger.

 

[CymruRed]

There are no facts about why, just opinions.

IMO we need somebody to cement our chances.

If we win both the CL and PL you can say I told you so, if we win neither I'll do the same.

Ultimately LFC remains nearly men, an also ran, until it wins something major and then does so again.

No they are facts mate,with some opinions thrown in.

Do we have money to spend...Yes
Does Klopp like buying in January...No
Does Klopp buy over priced players in January...No
Will Klopp buy 2nd,3rd,4th choice options to fill the squad...No

Are these not a few of the facts in reguards to what Klopp has said in the past,that could be the reason a player isn't bought in January??

I'll not rub your nose in it and say i told you so,if we win the Prem and/or CL.

I'm all for us buying players and strengthening the squad ( it does needs it) i have no arguement with you on that and totally agree with you mate.

The only difference is time frame,you seem to be coming at this like we have Oil rich owners with unlimited funds and totally ignoring what Klopp and FSG has said from day one.

So knowing all of the above,the right player at the right price at the right time,may be the summer (and probably will be),i'll be sat here thinking,ok well thats part of the plan and what we've been told is going to happen from the horses mouth,your sat their losing your shit over it,repeating we need to buy players and spend money NOW!! but we wont cos FSG are robbing us.