Who would you buy?

[Mascot88]

Chamberlain had played centre mid for Arsenal a number of times and always looked good there hence why plenty of us on here thought he would get minutes there for us. It wasn't a completely new role for him at all.

I thought one of the reasons he left was that he wanted to be played at centre mid? In that he’d done bits there for Arsenal and felt it was his best position.

 

[Kopstar]

Chamberlain had played centre mid for Arsenal a number of times and always looked good there hence why plenty of us on here thought he would get minutes there for us. It wasn't a completely new role for him at all.

He'd played centre midfield for England as well and looked good there. That's precisely where we bought him to play for us, in that 8 role. If we had him available this year showing his form of last year we'd be incredible. It's the only part of our team that is slightly lacking cohesion.

 

[Iluvatar]

Getting this thread back on track...
Looks like Chelsea are going for yet another defensively minded midfielder.

Why don't we be kind enough to solve their Kante problem for them? He's great in a midfield '2' and that's the direction we appear to be going in whilst Sarri very obviously prefers the '3', and whilst he's still very good he's not quite the same player.

Id love Kante here, he’s a fucking unbelievable person as well. Him Keita and Fabinho would just destroy teams.

 

[Red Ted]

I thought one of the reasons he left was that he wanted to be played at centre mid? In that he’d done bits there for Arsenal and felt it was his best position.

It was.

I'd like to see when he played in central midfield for them, I guess when their usual injury crisis hit & he filled in because it was never a specialist role for him under Wenger.

 

[CymruRed]

There are no facts about why, just opinions.

IMO we need somebody to cement our chances.

If we win both the CL and PL you can say I told you so, if we win neither I'll do the same.

Ultimately LFC remains nearly men, an also ran, until it wins something major and then does so again.

No they are facts mate,with some opinions thrown in.

Do we have money to spend...Yes
Does Klopp like buying in January...No
Does Klopp buy over priced players in January...No
Will Klopp buy 2nd,3rd,4th choice options to fill the squad...No

Are these not a few of the facts in reguards to what Klopp has said in the past,that could be the reason a player isn't bought in January??

I'll not rub your nose in it and say i told you so,if we win the Prem and/or CL.

I'm all for us buying players and strengthening the squad ( it does needs it) i have no arguement with you on that and totally agree with you mate.

The only difference is time frame,you seem to be coming at this like we have Oil rich owners with unlimited funds and totally ignoring what Klopp and FSG has said from day one.

So knowing all of the above,the right player at the right price at the right time,may be the summer (and probably will be),i'll be sat here thinking,ok well thats part of the plan and what we've been told is going to happen from the horses mouth,your sat their losing your shit over it,repeating we need to buy players and spend money NOW!! but we wont cos FSG are robbing us.

 

[MW2833]

It was.

I'd like to see when he played in central midfield for them, I guess when their usual injury crisis hit & he filled in because it was never a specialist role for him under Wenger.

I think Wenger used to play him RWB and he rejected Chelsea because they planned on playing him RWB as well

 

[Red Ted]

I think Wenger used to play him RWB and he rejected Chelsea because they planned on playing him RWB as well

Yes, the talk at the time was Chelsea wanted him for the right wing back role under Conte.

 

[ubermick]

Huh. It used to be were weren't good enough until we won a trophy.

Then it became us not being good enough until we won the league.

Now it's become us not being good enough until we win a "major" trophy - and then does so again?

 

[MW2833]

Huh. It used to be were weren't good enough until we won a trophy.

Then it became us not being good enough until we won the league.

Now it's become us not being good enough until we win a "major" trophy - and then does so again?

If we win the league this season rival fans will say "but you didn't win the league twice" lol

5 champions leagues
.

 

[redfanman]

Chamberlain wasn't a central midfielder for Arsenal & Keita doesn't look out of his depth at all? You're talking some nonsense there.

Keita is clearly struggling quite badly with the pace & physicality of the English game, that's the real problem/s with him, he looked like a fan that had won a raffle to come on and play 5 minutes against Brighton & was woeful against Wolves in slower then usual paced game, his only 2 performances that were genuinely encouraging were Burnley & West Ham.

You say massively overstated regarding Keita's form, I say massively overstated this new invention of football players taking an age to learn a football system & being excused playing poorly because of it, especially our ones, actually only our ones because you don't see this excuse/issue blown up like this anywhere else.

Funny, his stats are pretty similar to those when he was in Germany just not the goals/assists.

 

[Red Ted]

Funny, his stats are pretty similar to those when he was in Germany just not the goals/assists.

Not sure what your point is there to be honest - That all is good with Keita because of some stats in Germany but not all of them?

 

[LFCFFC]

I would be fairly confident in saying that the players we want to bring into the squad are not available this window. Hardly surprising given the type of player we're purchasing is probably integral to his team's league/European campaigns.

We seem to be happy to wait for our long term targets and given the recent success of that policy, it's hard to argue with it. Another winger would be nice though I have to admit.

 

[redbj]

i agree with redforever that it would be good to go large this transfer period.

im not as dogged about it as i cant imagine Jurgen telling Michael Edwards to not bother returning timo werners phone calls... if it doesnt happen, it doesnt happen.

but id like to see a pacy, utility forward come in and be given the next few months to bed in....obviously there are exceptions (VVD) but the general theme with Klopps signings seem to be they take a bit of bedding in before showing what they can do....moreso than any other managers i can think of off the top of my head, i think they need to be with Klopp for a period before it clicks.

so to go large now with an eye on 2019/20 would be my thinking.

 

[lfc.eddie]

Funny, his stats are pretty similar to those when he was in Germany just not the goals/assists.

Those two stats are pretty vital if he wants to make a mark as a top player in our side, don’t you think? There’s a reason why fans today are loving Shaqiri, and it’s not his lip service about how much he loves playing here.

 

[RedForever2014]

No they are facts mate,with some opinions thrown in.

Do we have money to spend...Yes
Does Klopp like buying in January...No
Does Klopp buy over priced players in January...No
Will Klopp buy 2nd,3rd,4th choice options to fill the squad...No

Are these not a few of the facts in reguards to what Klopp has said in the past,that could be the reason a player isn't bought in January??

I'll not rub your nose in it and say i told you so,if we win the Prem and/or CL.

I'm all for us buying players and strengthening the squad ( it does needs it) i have no arguement with you on that and totally agree with you mate.

The only difference is time frame,you seem to be coming at this like we have Oil rich owners with unlimited funds and totally ignoring what Klopp and FSG has said from day one.

So knowing all of the above,the right player at the right price at the right time,may be the summer (and probably will be),i'll be sat here thinking,ok well thats part of the plan and what we've been told is going to happen from the horses mouth,your sat their losing your shit over it,repeating we need to buy players and spend money NOW!! but we wont cos FSG are robbing us.

The only way to categorically prove if there's money to spend is if money is spent. There may be money there and Klopp's not spending it, there may not be money there, neither can be proven by you or I.

Let's be clear on something - over the long run the club's that spend the most on transfers and wages win the most trophies. United, City and Chelsea have mopped up, more financially restrained clubs like ourselves, Arsenal and Spurs have won six trophies between us since 2006.

LFC's net spending under Klopp has been £30m a season. Spending more would increase our chances of trophies.

Whether that's an Alisson or a Robertson doesn't matter, we need to add quality to the squad whatever the price paid.

Look at it another way. In the last 30 years, when has the single biggest upturn in our fortunes come? It's come in the year we actually went out into the market and bought at the top end on several occasions.

It's unfortunate that this only happened because we sold a top player to part fund it, but it shows what can be achieved if you invest.

Many of you guys constantly argue with me that spending isn't necessary, when obviously it is.

I repeat my view - our spending over the past year is a one off, largely funded by selling Coutinho, because LFC won't spend what a club of its size should be able to, because the owners prefer to extract cash via their FSM operation.

Every pound makes a difference when competing with the clubs we're competing with, an extra £20m a season under Klopp to date would mean we have that £60m 4th top class forward or further depth elsewhere.

In short, I don't expect us to be United, City or Chelsea in terms of net spending, but I expect us to be able to spend in net terms way more than mid table clubs.

Our net spending over the past three years is no more than many non top 6 PL clubs, which kind of says it all.

 

[redbj]

Hang on hang on, just let me settle in and get a cuppa, I don’t wanna miss this

 

[Kopstar]

Every pound makes a difference when competing with the clubs we're competing with, an extra £20m a season under Klopp to date would mean we have that £60m 4th top class forward or further depth elsewhere.

Maybe not spending that extra £20m a season for three years on some middling player just to satisfy those, like you, who want Liverpool to spend for the sake of it, means we can now drop £60m on that top class addition to our forward options?

 

[redbj]

Is that it?

 

[Kopstar]

Is that it?

• At work
• My birthday
• It's rinse and repeat
• Can't be bothered

 

[Mascot88]

@RedForever2014

Has Klopp given any indication - even a twitchy eyebrow or pursed lips in a press conference - that if there were money available he would spend it? That’s he would like more money to spend in the market?

At some point you have to have courage of your convictions and actually blame the manager for the deficiencies you identify in the squad. Because as far as I can see, he is absoluteky the main driver of those.

It’s an incredible double standard that you say Klopp’s real opinion on his squad can’t be proven either way. And yet you keep throwing around this ridiculous assertion that FSG are funding the Red Sox with Liverpool income. The books - for both Liverpool and the Red Sox - are available for you to go and prove that.

As a related side point, how much money do you think it costs to run a club like Liverpool FC? A lot of fans look at the turnover and have an expectation that our transfer spend should be approaching that sum, without considering the wage bill, the staff costs, maintaining the clubs infrastructure, transport, utilities, debt repayments, consultancy fees, etc etc etc.

 

[Limiescouse]

Look at it another way. In the last 30 years, when has the single biggest upturn in our fortunes come? It's come in the year we actually went out into the market and bought at the top end on several occasions.

It's unfortunate that this only happened because we sold a top player to part fund it, but it shows what can be achieved if you invest.

I have no problem with your personal commitment to wanting to buy. What I have a problem with is your continued skewing of the facts you use to support your position. The biggest turn around in a single season we have made in recent times was in the summer of 2014, a year that saw us go from a hapless 7th to 2nd with us not being out of the title race mathematically until the final whistle of the final day. That was a summer when we made not one big singing, or even a cheap one that turned out to have a big impact. It was a bunch of middle of the road signings at best of whom only one is still here (and on the bench). The bulk of the improvement coming from players already at the club.

The best clubs do indeed tend to spend the most money, but they do so year after year after year. No one single "let go big now" type window will see us match that, and it ups the risk of us not being able to compete in the long term. What you "analysis" misses is the number of failures even the big clubs have in the transfer market, which is a better argument for us, a club who has to be cleverer in the market than City are, biding our time until the right option is available.

 

[RedForever2014]

@RedForever2014

Has Klopp given any indication - even a twitchy eyebrow or pursed lips in a press conference - that if there were money available he would spend it? That’s he would like more money to spend in the market?

At some point you have to have courage of your convictions and actually blame the manager for the deficiencies you identify in the squad. Because as far as I can see, he is absoluteky the main driver of those.

It’s an incredible double standard that you say Klopp’s real opinion on his squad can’t be proven either way. And yet you keep throwing around this ridiculous assertion that FSG are funding the Red Sox with Liverpool income. The books - for both Liverpool and the Red Sox - are available for you to go and prove that.

As a related side point, how much money do you think it costs to run a club like Liverpool FC? A lot of fans look at the turnover and have an expectation that our transfer spend should be approaching that sum, without considering the wage bill, the staff costs, maintaining the clubs infrastructure, transport, utilities, debt repayments, consultancy fees, etc etc etc.

Accounting practices make a full assessment of what underpins year end reports difficult. On paper we made a post tax profit of £39m on £364m turnover to 31/5/17. That might be on a reduced turnover due to FSM cuts of revenues, and reduced profit for the same reason, or it might be inflated to take advantage of tax rule changes and book profit to offset against accrued losses before HMRC rules changed.

https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/announcements/292412-lfc-announces-financial-results

The figures to 31/5/18 will be out in March I believe.

Clearly wages are the biggest P&L item, and other running costs substantial. The only real measure one can use to compare clubs is net transfer spend as a % of turnover. Personally I think it should be higher than 10%.

Look my frustration is that we are in a great position and I do believe that at our best we could beat any side in Europe. I believe the title and CL could both be won this season from our position.

I believe that would be a huge step for us, domestic champions again and at the same time achieving the status of CL winners with all its worldwide benefits. It also would make any top player looking to leave us think twice.

It would put us back firmly as a top club that wins things, not the great entertainers and glorious nearly men.

But I think we're riding our luck and relying on good fortune with injuries.

I think we could cement our prospects. We went for Fekir and are told Shaqiri or Alisson weren't bought instead.

Our forward squad isn't good enough and one quality addition could really change that. The Fekir signing basically.

That's my view.

 

[koptician]

I know he's about to go to China but I wouldn't mind Arnautovic. He is getting on a bit though but he could really help push us over the line...and in a year we could sell him to China for a profit. I can just imagine how good he would be with our midfield and our fullbacks backing him. Not to mention our other wide forwards

 

[Mascot88]

Accounting practices make a full assessment of what underpins year end reports difficult. On paper we made a post tax profit of £39m on £364m turnover to 31/5/17. That might be on a reduced turnover due to FSM cuts of revenues, and reduced profit for the same reason, or it might be inflated to take advantage of tax rule changes and book profit to offset against accrued losses before HMRC rules changed.

https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/announcements/292412-lfc-announces-financial-results

The figures to 31/5/18 will be out in March I believe.

Clearly wages are the biggest P&L item, and other running costs substantial. The only real measure one can use to compare clubs is net transfer spend as a % of turnover. Personally I think it should be higher than 10%.

Look my frustration is that we are in a great position and I do believe that at our best we could beat any side in Europe. I believe the title and CL could both be won this season from our position.

I believe that would be a huge step for us, domestic champions again and at the same time achieving the status of CL winners with all its worldwide benefits. It also would make any top player looking to leave us think twice.

It would put us back firmly as a top club that wins things, not the great entertainers and glorious nearly men.

But I think we're riding our luck and relying on good fortune with injuries.

I think we could cement our prospects. We went for Fekir and are told Shaqiri or Alisson weren't bought instead.

Our forward squad isn't good enough and one quality addition could really change that. The Fekir signing basically.

That's my view.

The problem with your view on the finances is that it might be a cause for concern (I honestly have no idea how much the big clubs spend on transfers as a proportion of turnover - 10% seems about right to me) if we we still had Rodgers wanting more tools for his squad, or Mourinho or Guardiola, or any other manager who needs to raid the market to be successful But our manager is Jurgen Klopp, who has not only shown that he can be successful while being frugal in his transfer spend - it’s his preferred way of working. He sees his time on the training pitch - not the fax machine - the biggest factor in improving the team.

And to be fair to him, he has steadily improved us year on year, got us back to regular Champions League participation (the real platform for a title push), reached a CL final, and finally has us in pole position for a league title.

You might say imagine where we’d be if he spent a bit more money. I would say let the man work the way he wants to work. The job he is doing is exemplary.

 

[Iluvatar]

Look at it another way. In the last 30 years, when has the single biggest upturn in our fortunes come? It's come in the year we actually went out into the market and bought at the top end on several occasions.

No it was when we signed Klopp. Opinion or not you are 100% wrong on that statement.

 

[CymruRed]

The only way to categorically prove if there's money to spend is if money is spent. There may be money there and Klopp's not spending it, there may not be money there, neither can be proven by you or I.

Let's be clear on something - over the long run the club's that spend the most on transfers and wages win the most trophies. United, City and Chelsea have mopped up, more financially restrained clubs like ourselves, Arsenal and Spurs have won six trophies between us since 2006.

LFC's net spending under Klopp has been £30m a season. Spending more would increase our chances of trophies.

Whether that's an Alisson or a Robertson doesn't matter, we need to add quality to the squad whatever the price paid.

Look at it another way. In the last 30 years, when has the single biggest upturn in our fortunes come? It's come in the year we actually went out into the market and bought at the top end on several occasions.

It's unfortunate that this only happened because we sold a top player to part fund it, but it shows what can be achieved if you invest.

Many of you guys constantly argue with me that spending isn't necessary, when obviously it is.

I repeat my view - our spending over the past year is a one off, largely funded by selling Coutinho, because LFC won't spend what a club of its size should be able to, because the owners prefer to extract cash via their FSM operation.

Every pound makes a difference when competing with the clubs we're competing with, an extra £20m a season under Klopp to date would mean we have that £60m 4th top class forward or further depth elsewhere.

In short, I don't expect us to be United, City or Chelsea in terms of net spending, but I expect us to be able to spend in net terms way more than mid table clubs.

Our net spending over the past three years is no more than many non top 6 PL clubs, which kind of says it all.

So what you're saying is that even though FSG,it's share holders and everyone working for them,who've increased the clubs revenue's, shelved out £300mill to buy the club, £200mill to build the main stand,new pitch,club shop and surrounding area's, plus £50mill for the new training ground,should not take a % of the increased profits out of the club and do it all for free?? if thats the case then you're deluded mate,we are being run by businessmen who want to make the club self sustainable,not an oil rich owner with deep pockets.

TBH with all that having gone on and the class of players being brought in at the same time,you having a go about us needing to spend more money on the squad (when Klopp has stated there is money to spend) and the way the club/team is improving year on year,is just plain nuts.

If you can't see the work thats been done up till now,selling players at a huge profit to make more money to buy the right players at the right price and time,to get us to the place we are at now,then my work here is done and there's just nothing more i can say to you on this debate.

 

[Semmy]

• At work
• My birthday
• It's rinse and repeat
• Can't be bothered

Happy birthday @Kopstar!

 

[RedForever2014]

So what you're saying is that even though FSG,it's share holders and everyone working for them,who've increased the clubs revenue's, shelved out £300mill to buy the club, £200mill to build the main stand,new pitch,club shop and surrounding area's, plus £50mill for the new training ground,should not take a % of the increased profits out of the club and do it all for free?? if thats the case then you're deluded mate,we are being run by businessmen who want to make the club self sustainable,not an oil rich owner with deep pockets.

TBH with all that having gone on and the class of players being brought in at the same time,you having a go about us needing to spend more money on the squad (when Klopp has stated there is money to spend) and the way the club/team is improving year on year,is just plain nuts.

If you can't see the work thats been done up till now,selling players at a huge profit to make more money to buy the right players at the right price and time,to get us to the place we are at now,then my work here is done and there's just nothing more i can say to you on this debate.

Profit or not, constantly selling your best players is never a strategy for sustained success.

 

[Mascot88]

Profit or not, constantly selling your best players is never a strategy for sustained success.

Where has this selling idea come from?

Mascherano, Alonso and anything else pre 2010 are not relevant to the conversation. Nothing to do with FSG.

Torres was sold at the very start of 2010 after handing in a transfer request, unwilling to commit the best years of his career to a lengthy rebuild. In reality he was fucked.

Suarez was adamant on leaving, and had been on strike a season earlier to try and force a move to Arsenal. FSG even ignored his release clause. We couldn’t realistically hold him any longer.

Sterling forced is way out by making himself a toxic presence at the club. I don’t know how we keep him at that point.

Likewise, Coutinho made himself untenable. FSG resisted selling him in the summer, and then offered him more money in January. Had to sell in the end.

Those are the four big sales FSG have made, and all were forced by the players. There is nothing to suggest FSGs strategy is the sell players at peak value.

 

[Zinedine Biscan]

Where has this selling idea come from?

Mascherano, Alonso and anything else pre 2010 are not relevant to the conversation. Nothing to do with FSG.

Torres was sold at the very start of 2010 after handing in a transfer request, unwilling to commit the best years of his career to a lengthy rebuild. In reality he was fucked.

Suarez was adamant on leaving, and had been on strike a season earlier to try and force a move to Arsenal. FSG even ignored his release clause. We couldn’t realistically hold him any longer.

Sterling forced is way out by making himself a toxic presence at the club. I don’t know how we keep him at that point.

Likewise, Coutinho made himself untenable. FSG resisted selling him in the summer, and then offered him more money in January. Had to sell in the end.

Those are the four big sales FSG have made, and all were forced by the players. There is nothing to suggest FSGs strategy is the sell players at peak value.

Kudos to you mate for continuing to attempt a rational dialogue after all this time. I suspect you'd have rather more success applying your head to the nearest wall, though.