Who would you buy?

[RedForever2014]

I often think about this.

Imagine if we bought Robertson for £30m, Trent for £20m, Shaqiri for £25, Gomez for £20m, and Salah for £60m - prices much more realistic in view of how they’ve contributed. No-one would be complaining about the spending then, and we’d have exactly the same squad.

At some point we have to accept we’re just bitching at the club for having a bit of financial savvy.

We're bitching at the club for not taking advantage of the fact that it bought well in many cases, thus accelerating the progress of the club, by using the money saved to complete the job of building a squad that can compete on all fronts.

Our ability to compete in both the CL and PL simultaneously is hindered by the lack of depth in the forwards.

We cannot go very far in the domestic cups because of the lack of depth in the squad generally.

You really telling me there is no player out there, who would be an improvement on what we have up top beyond Bobby, Mo and Mane, who could be signed this month, who would increase our chances of getting to the CL latter stages again whilst staying the course in the league?

If everyone remains fit we might win the league and stay in the CL regardless, but a few injuries would seriously hamper both opportunities, and a deeper squad now would mitigate this risk and improve our chances.

It's great that we're doing well, but my view remains that this is despite unnecessary frugality rather than because we're moving heaven and earth to cement our chances.

 

[ILLOK]

You really telling me there is no player out there, who would be an improvement on what we have up top beyond Bobby, Mo and Mane, who could be signed this month, who would increase our chances of getting to the CL latter stages again whilst staying the course in the league?

If we'd had this mentality in the summer of 2017 Van Dijk would probably be playing for City right now and we'd have exactly 0% chance of catching up with them.

 

[CymruRed]

(I'm) bitching at the club for not taking advantage of the fact that it bought well in many cases, thus accelerating the progress of the club, by using the money saved to complete the job of building a squad that can compete on all fronts.

Our ability to compete in both the CL and PL simultaneously is hindered by the lack of depth in the forwards.

We cannot go very far in the domestic cups because of the lack of depth in the squad generally.

You really telling me there is no player out there, who would be an improvement on what we have up top beyond Bobby, Mo and Mane, who could be signed this month, who would increase our chances of getting to the CL latter stages again whilst staying the course in the league?

If everyone remains fit we might win the league and stay in the CL regardless, but a few injuries would seriously hamper both opportunities, and a deeper squad now would mitigate this risk and improve our chances.

It's great that we're doing well, but my view remains that this is despite unnecessary frugality rather than because we're moving heaven and earth to cement our chances.

Fixed lol

Is it hard to understand that things just aren't as simple as having money and buying a player?

All the facts and reasons as to why we haven't bought anyone in this january window,have been put forward for you to read,and you still come back with the same stuff.

We have money to spend,if a player doesn't come in then OBVIOUSLY Klopp (or selling club/player) has decided not to make it happen,for financial or squad reasons,not because of FSG.

 

[ILLOK]

Getting this thread back on track...

Saw that evening standard are suggesting Chelsea are in for Paredes.....

Looks like Chelsea are going for yet another defensively minded midfielder.

Why don't we be kind enough to solve their Kante problem for them? He's great in a midfield '2' and that's the direction we appear to be going in whilst Sarri very obviously prefers the '3', and whilst he's still very good he's not quite the same player.

 

[RedForever2014]

Fixed lol

Is it hard to understand that things just aren't as simple as having money and buying a player?

All the facts and reasons as to why we haven't bought anyone in this january window,have been put forward for you to read,and you still come back with the same stuff.

We have money to spend,if a player doesn't come in then OBVIOUSLY Klopp (or selling club/player) has decided not to make it happen,for financial or squad reasons,not because of FSG.

There are no facts about why, just opinions.

IMO we need somebody to cement our chances.

If we win both the CL and PL you can say I told you so, if we win neither I'll do the same.

Ultimately LFC remains nearly men, an also ran, until it wins something major and then does so again.

 

[Zoran]

Looks like Chelsea are going for yet another defensively minded midfielder.

He's a deep lying playmaker, I think he's one of their options on the market to be backup to Jorginho (with Cesc moving). Don't know if Sarri would be willing to use him in one of the two advanced #8's though.

With Kante, yeah, you could say there are arguments for him to maybe start considering offers... but I feel the other midfield space will be up for grabs with Kovacic not impressing that much so far. Plus, Chelsea probably won't be willing to let Kante go to another top 6 club.

 

[Red Ted]

Chamberlain had been playing in midfield for Arsenal, it wasn't a new role for him.

None of our current midfielders excelled straight away under Klopp in the midfield. Henderson and Milner improved with time, Lallana played a different role first and Fabinho and Chamberlain took a few months before they started producing what Klopp wanted. I doubt anyone would argue Wijnaldum hasn't improved significantly with time either.

Keita doesn't look out of his depth at all he's just not quite as good as the other options at this point in time though there were moments in this season in which the opposite was true. It's being so massively overstated how much he has struggled.

Chamberlain wasn't a central midfielder for Arsenal & Keita doesn't look out of his depth at all? You're talking some nonsense there.

Keita is clearly struggling quite badly with the pace & physicality of the English game, that's the real problem/s with him, he looked like a fan that had won a raffle to come on and play 5 minutes against Brighton & was woeful against Wolves in slower then usual paced game, his only 2 performances that were genuinely encouraging were Burnley & West Ham.

You say massively overstated regarding Keita's form, I say massively overstated this new invention of football players taking an age to learn a football system & being excused playing poorly because of it, especially our ones, actually only our ones because you don't see this excuse/issue blown up like this anywhere else.

 

[ILLOK]

Chamberlain wasn't a central midfielder for Arsenal .You're talking some nonsense there.

Chamberlain had played centre mid for Arsenal a number of times and always looked good there hence why plenty of us on here thought he would get minutes there for us. It wasn't a completely new role for him at all.

 

[Mascot88]

Chamberlain had played centre mid for Arsenal a number of times and always looked good there hence why plenty of us on here thought he would get minutes there for us. It wasn't a completely new role for him at all.

I thought one of the reasons he left was that he wanted to be played at centre mid? In that he’d done bits there for Arsenal and felt it was his best position.

 

[Kopstar]

Chamberlain had played centre mid for Arsenal a number of times and always looked good there hence why plenty of us on here thought he would get minutes there for us. It wasn't a completely new role for him at all.

He'd played centre midfield for England as well and looked good there. That's precisely where we bought him to play for us, in that 8 role. If we had him available this year showing his form of last year we'd be incredible. It's the only part of our team that is slightly lacking cohesion.

 

[Iluvatar]

Getting this thread back on track...
Looks like Chelsea are going for yet another defensively minded midfielder.

Why don't we be kind enough to solve their Kante problem for them? He's great in a midfield '2' and that's the direction we appear to be going in whilst Sarri very obviously prefers the '3', and whilst he's still very good he's not quite the same player.

Id love Kante here, he’s a fucking unbelievable person as well. Him Keita and Fabinho would just destroy teams.

 

[Red Ted]

I thought one of the reasons he left was that he wanted to be played at centre mid? In that he’d done bits there for Arsenal and felt it was his best position.

It was.

I'd like to see when he played in central midfield for them, I guess when their usual injury crisis hit & he filled in because it was never a specialist role for him under Wenger.

 

[CymruRed]

There are no facts about why, just opinions.

IMO we need somebody to cement our chances.

If we win both the CL and PL you can say I told you so, if we win neither I'll do the same.

Ultimately LFC remains nearly men, an also ran, until it wins something major and then does so again.

No they are facts mate,with some opinions thrown in.

Do we have money to spend...Yes
Does Klopp like buying in January...No
Does Klopp buy over priced players in January...No
Will Klopp buy 2nd,3rd,4th choice options to fill the squad...No

Are these not a few of the facts in reguards to what Klopp has said in the past,that could be the reason a player isn't bought in January??

I'll not rub your nose in it and say i told you so,if we win the Prem and/or CL.

I'm all for us buying players and strengthening the squad ( it does needs it) i have no arguement with you on that and totally agree with you mate.

The only difference is time frame,you seem to be coming at this like we have Oil rich owners with unlimited funds and totally ignoring what Klopp and FSG has said from day one.

So knowing all of the above,the right player at the right price at the right time,may be the summer (and probably will be),i'll be sat here thinking,ok well thats part of the plan and what we've been told is going to happen from the horses mouth,your sat their losing your shit over it,repeating we need to buy players and spend money NOW!! but we wont cos FSG are robbing us.

 

[MW2833]

It was.

I'd like to see when he played in central midfield for them, I guess when their usual injury crisis hit & he filled in because it was never a specialist role for him under Wenger.

I think Wenger used to play him RWB and he rejected Chelsea because they planned on playing him RWB as well

 

[Red Ted]

I think Wenger used to play him RWB and he rejected Chelsea because they planned on playing him RWB as well

Yes, the talk at the time was Chelsea wanted him for the right wing back role under Conte.

 

[ubermick]

Huh. It used to be were weren't good enough until we won a trophy.

Then it became us not being good enough until we won the league.

Now it's become us not being good enough until we win a "major" trophy - and then does so again?

 

[MW2833]

Huh. It used to be were weren't good enough until we won a trophy.

Then it became us not being good enough until we won the league.

Now it's become us not being good enough until we win a "major" trophy - and then does so again?

If we win the league this season rival fans will say "but you didn't win the league twice" lol

5 champions leagues
.

 

[redfanman]

Chamberlain wasn't a central midfielder for Arsenal & Keita doesn't look out of his depth at all? You're talking some nonsense there.

Keita is clearly struggling quite badly with the pace & physicality of the English game, that's the real problem/s with him, he looked like a fan that had won a raffle to come on and play 5 minutes against Brighton & was woeful against Wolves in slower then usual paced game, his only 2 performances that were genuinely encouraging were Burnley & West Ham.

You say massively overstated regarding Keita's form, I say massively overstated this new invention of football players taking an age to learn a football system & being excused playing poorly because of it, especially our ones, actually only our ones because you don't see this excuse/issue blown up like this anywhere else.

Funny, his stats are pretty similar to those when he was in Germany just not the goals/assists.

 

[Red Ted]

Funny, his stats are pretty similar to those when he was in Germany just not the goals/assists.

Not sure what your point is there to be honest - That all is good with Keita because of some stats in Germany but not all of them?

 

[LFCFFC]

I would be fairly confident in saying that the players we want to bring into the squad are not available this window. Hardly surprising given the type of player we're purchasing is probably integral to his team's league/European campaigns.

We seem to be happy to wait for our long term targets and given the recent success of that policy, it's hard to argue with it. Another winger would be nice though I have to admit.

 

[redbj]

i agree with redforever that it would be good to go large this transfer period.

im not as dogged about it as i cant imagine Jurgen telling Michael Edwards to not bother returning timo werners phone calls... if it doesnt happen, it doesnt happen.

but id like to see a pacy, utility forward come in and be given the next few months to bed in....obviously there are exceptions (VVD) but the general theme with Klopps signings seem to be they take a bit of bedding in before showing what they can do....moreso than any other managers i can think of off the top of my head, i think they need to be with Klopp for a period before it clicks.

so to go large now with an eye on 2019/20 would be my thinking.

 

[lfc.eddie]

Funny, his stats are pretty similar to those when he was in Germany just not the goals/assists.

Those two stats are pretty vital if he wants to make a mark as a top player in our side, don’t you think? There’s a reason why fans today are loving Shaqiri, and it’s not his lip service about how much he loves playing here.

 

[RedForever2014]

No they are facts mate,with some opinions thrown in.

Do we have money to spend...Yes
Does Klopp like buying in January...No
Does Klopp buy over priced players in January...No
Will Klopp buy 2nd,3rd,4th choice options to fill the squad...No

Are these not a few of the facts in reguards to what Klopp has said in the past,that could be the reason a player isn't bought in January??

I'll not rub your nose in it and say i told you so,if we win the Prem and/or CL.

I'm all for us buying players and strengthening the squad ( it does needs it) i have no arguement with you on that and totally agree with you mate.

The only difference is time frame,you seem to be coming at this like we have Oil rich owners with unlimited funds and totally ignoring what Klopp and FSG has said from day one.

So knowing all of the above,the right player at the right price at the right time,may be the summer (and probably will be),i'll be sat here thinking,ok well thats part of the plan and what we've been told is going to happen from the horses mouth,your sat their losing your shit over it,repeating we need to buy players and spend money NOW!! but we wont cos FSG are robbing us.

The only way to categorically prove if there's money to spend is if money is spent. There may be money there and Klopp's not spending it, there may not be money there, neither can be proven by you or I.

Let's be clear on something - over the long run the club's that spend the most on transfers and wages win the most trophies. United, City and Chelsea have mopped up, more financially restrained clubs like ourselves, Arsenal and Spurs have won six trophies between us since 2006.

LFC's net spending under Klopp has been £30m a season. Spending more would increase our chances of trophies.

Whether that's an Alisson or a Robertson doesn't matter, we need to add quality to the squad whatever the price paid.

Look at it another way. In the last 30 years, when has the single biggest upturn in our fortunes come? It's come in the year we actually went out into the market and bought at the top end on several occasions.

It's unfortunate that this only happened because we sold a top player to part fund it, but it shows what can be achieved if you invest.

Many of you guys constantly argue with me that spending isn't necessary, when obviously it is.

I repeat my view - our spending over the past year is a one off, largely funded by selling Coutinho, because LFC won't spend what a club of its size should be able to, because the owners prefer to extract cash via their FSM operation.

Every pound makes a difference when competing with the clubs we're competing with, an extra £20m a season under Klopp to date would mean we have that £60m 4th top class forward or further depth elsewhere.

In short, I don't expect us to be United, City or Chelsea in terms of net spending, but I expect us to be able to spend in net terms way more than mid table clubs.

Our net spending over the past three years is no more than many non top 6 PL clubs, which kind of says it all.

 

[redbj]

Hang on hang on, just let me settle in and get a cuppa, I don’t wanna miss this

 

[Kopstar]

Every pound makes a difference when competing with the clubs we're competing with, an extra £20m a season under Klopp to date would mean we have that £60m 4th top class forward or further depth elsewhere.

Maybe not spending that extra £20m a season for three years on some middling player just to satisfy those, like you, who want Liverpool to spend for the sake of it, means we can now drop £60m on that top class addition to our forward options?

 

[redbj]

Is that it?

 

[Kopstar]

Is that it?

• At work
• My birthday
• It's rinse and repeat
• Can't be bothered

 

[Mascot88]

@RedForever2014

Has Klopp given any indication - even a twitchy eyebrow or pursed lips in a press conference - that if there were money available he would spend it? That’s he would like more money to spend in the market?

At some point you have to have courage of your convictions and actually blame the manager for the deficiencies you identify in the squad. Because as far as I can see, he is absoluteky the main driver of those.

It’s an incredible double standard that you say Klopp’s real opinion on his squad can’t be proven either way. And yet you keep throwing around this ridiculous assertion that FSG are funding the Red Sox with Liverpool income. The books - for both Liverpool and the Red Sox - are available for you to go and prove that.

As a related side point, how much money do you think it costs to run a club like Liverpool FC? A lot of fans look at the turnover and have an expectation that our transfer spend should be approaching that sum, without considering the wage bill, the staff costs, maintaining the clubs infrastructure, transport, utilities, debt repayments, consultancy fees, etc etc etc.

 

[Limiescouse]

Look at it another way. In the last 30 years, when has the single biggest upturn in our fortunes come? It's come in the year we actually went out into the market and bought at the top end on several occasions.

It's unfortunate that this only happened because we sold a top player to part fund it, but it shows what can be achieved if you invest.

I have no problem with your personal commitment to wanting to buy. What I have a problem with is your continued skewing of the facts you use to support your position. The biggest turn around in a single season we have made in recent times was in the summer of 2014, a year that saw us go from a hapless 7th to 2nd with us not being out of the title race mathematically until the final whistle of the final day. That was a summer when we made not one big singing, or even a cheap one that turned out to have a big impact. It was a bunch of middle of the road signings at best of whom only one is still here (and on the bench). The bulk of the improvement coming from players already at the club.

The best clubs do indeed tend to spend the most money, but they do so year after year after year. No one single "let go big now" type window will see us match that, and it ups the risk of us not being able to compete in the long term. What you "analysis" misses is the number of failures even the big clubs have in the transfer market, which is a better argument for us, a club who has to be cleverer in the market than City are, biding our time until the right option is available.

 

[RedForever2014]

@RedForever2014

Has Klopp given any indication - even a twitchy eyebrow or pursed lips in a press conference - that if there were money available he would spend it? That’s he would like more money to spend in the market?

At some point you have to have courage of your convictions and actually blame the manager for the deficiencies you identify in the squad. Because as far as I can see, he is absoluteky the main driver of those.

It’s an incredible double standard that you say Klopp’s real opinion on his squad can’t be proven either way. And yet you keep throwing around this ridiculous assertion that FSG are funding the Red Sox with Liverpool income. The books - for both Liverpool and the Red Sox - are available for you to go and prove that.

As a related side point, how much money do you think it costs to run a club like Liverpool FC? A lot of fans look at the turnover and have an expectation that our transfer spend should be approaching that sum, without considering the wage bill, the staff costs, maintaining the clubs infrastructure, transport, utilities, debt repayments, consultancy fees, etc etc etc.

Accounting practices make a full assessment of what underpins year end reports difficult. On paper we made a post tax profit of £39m on £364m turnover to 31/5/17. That might be on a reduced turnover due to FSM cuts of revenues, and reduced profit for the same reason, or it might be inflated to take advantage of tax rule changes and book profit to offset against accrued losses before HMRC rules changed.

https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/announcements/292412-lfc-announces-financial-results

The figures to 31/5/18 will be out in March I believe.

Clearly wages are the biggest P&L item, and other running costs substantial. The only real measure one can use to compare clubs is net transfer spend as a % of turnover. Personally I think it should be higher than 10%.

Look my frustration is that we are in a great position and I do believe that at our best we could beat any side in Europe. I believe the title and CL could both be won this season from our position.

I believe that would be a huge step for us, domestic champions again and at the same time achieving the status of CL winners with all its worldwide benefits. It also would make any top player looking to leave us think twice.

It would put us back firmly as a top club that wins things, not the great entertainers and glorious nearly men.

But I think we're riding our luck and relying on good fortune with injuries.

I think we could cement our prospects. We went for Fekir and are told Shaqiri or Alisson weren't bought instead.

Our forward squad isn't good enough and one quality addition could really change that. The Fekir signing basically.

That's my view.