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Who would you buy?



RedForever2014

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People can mock and ridicule, but we're the club that never wins anything, so we all clearly know exactly what you need to win trophies and the clubs that win them don't.
 

Limiescouse

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People can mock and ridicule, but we're the club that never wins anything, so we all clearly know exactly what you need to win trophies and the clubs that win them don't.
Is the answer Eziquel Mangala?

We are currently in a bit of a defensive issue, albeit only with respect to one game in the CL, and retaining Clyne would have done absolutely nothing to resolve that problem.
 



RedForever2014

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Is the answer Eziquel Mangala?

We are currently in a bit of a defensive issue, albeit only with respect to one game in the CL, and retaining Clyne would have done absolutely nothing to resolve that problem.
We have a defensive issue that was wholly predictable and was predicted by some of us last summer when we didn't do anything about having so many injury prone centre backs (Matip out 5 months last season, Gomez out a quarter of the season, Lovren injured every six matches) and then let Klavan go instead of keeping him for insurance against this risk. Now we let Clyne go too.

You'd think a club with a statistical genius like Edwards and Hedge Fund owners would be able to identify risk and mitigate it.
 
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lfc.8

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We need to see some proper investment in the summer. Build around Alisson, Robertson, van Dijk, Gomez, Mane, Salah and Firmino. A good base but needs to be a lot stronger with more depth. A few key additions would really help.

Midfield remains a concern and is probably the weakest part of our team. Fabinho is improving which is great. But another central and attacking midfielder would be ideal. Ndombele, Aouar, Havertz, Eriksen are all players to have a look at.

In defence we're pretty reliant on two or three. Lovren and Matip are not dependable. Quality wise and in staying fit. Gomez has had a few injuries. Moreno and Clyne will likely be gone. We need better options.

Up front we don't have much behind the front three and this is a bit of an issue. Sturridge and Origi likely to be gone as well. Certainly an area which needs to be addressed. There's scope for a wide forward and a striker but we need to find that balance.

With all that being said we need to continue from a relative position of strength and not be too complacent. Existing players signing new contracts, that alone, won't quite cut it.
 

Limiescouse

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We have a defensive issue that was wholly predictable and was predicted by some of us last summer when we didn't do anything about having so many injury prone centre backs (Matip out 5 months last season, Gomez out a quarter of the season, Lovren injured every six matches) and then let Klavan go instead of keeping him for insurance against this risk. Now we let Clyne go too.

You'd think a club with a statistical genius like Edwards and Hendge Fund owners would be able to identify risk and mitigate it.
The Lovren/Matip thing is a totally reasonable gripe, and you are not the only person who airs it. In hindsight we would have probably been better off this year by keeping Klavan and moving on Matip, and that move would have probably given Klavan an expectation of enough games to satisfy him. It probably didnt need hindsight to figure that out either given Matip's history of frailty. However, in saying all that it is important to realise that Matip is actually the one of our CB corps who is most likely to be available for the Bayern game, so again, this obvious looking solution wouldnt necessarily solve the immediate issue we're facing.

The frustration with you and your posting is that you connect it to totally unrelated issues like the loss of Clyne. It's like a wife using me not picking my jeans up off the bedroom floor to have a go at me for something I said 3 weeks ago.
 

Alright Now

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We have a defensive issue that was wholly predictable and was predicted by some of us last summer when we didn't do anything about having so many injury prone centre backs (Matip out 5 months last season, Gomez out a quarter of the season, Lovren injured every six matches) and then let Klavan go instead of keeping him for insurance against this risk. Now we let Clyne go too.

You'd think a club with a statistical genius like Edwards and Hendge Fund owners would be able to identify risk and mitigate it.
Of course, Klavan is not playing with an achilles injury. But sure...
 



redfanman

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We have a defensive issue that was wholly predictable and was predicted by some of us last summer when we didn't do anything about having so many injury prone centre backs (Matip out 5 months last season, Gomez out a quarter of the season, Lovren injured every six matches) and then let Klavan go instead of keeping him for insurance against this risk. Now we let Clyne go too.

You'd think a club with a statistical genius like Edwards and Hendge Fund owners would be able to identify risk and mitigate it.
They did. Klopp has already said that Fabinho was brought with those considerations in mind. And, we didnt drop points because he wasnt playing in midfield.
 

Nikola

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We need to see some proper investment in the summer. Build around Alisson, Robertson, van Dijk, Gomez, Mane, Salah and Firmino. A good base but needs to be a lot stronger with more depth. A few key additions would really help.

Midfield remains a concern and is probably the weakest part of our team. Fabinho is improving which is great. But another central and attacking midfielder would be ideal. Ndombele, Aouar, Havertz, Eriksen are all players to have a look at.

In defence we're pretty reliant on two or three. Lovren and Matip are not dependable. Quality wise and in staying fit. Gomez has had a few injuries. Moreno and Clyne will likely be gone. We need better options.

Up front we don't have much behind the front three and this is a bit of an issue. Sturridge and Origi likely to be gone as well. Certainly an area which needs to be addressed. There's scope for a wide forward and a striker but we need to find that balance.

With all that being said we need to continue from a relative position of strength and not be too complacent. Existing players signing new contracts, that alone, won't quite cut it.
If you asked me two or three months ago what was the part of this Liverpool side that I thought was in need of upgrading, I'd have said "midfield". Right now, with Fabinho and Wijnaldum impressing in double pivot, Henderson, Milner and Keita providing options, Firmino playing as an attacking midfielder/no. 10/second striker more often than not and Oxlade-Chamberlain hopefully returning fully fit ahead of the next season, I'd say that it's the defence that needs upgrading, not because of distinct lack of quality but their fitness that is unreliable, to put it mildly.

I wonder if there are any regrets with Klopp over not moving forward with signing a centre back he will probably sign this summer. I think he put most of his eggs in the Joe Gomez-returning-in-six-weeks basket and it backfired, especially with Lovren and Matip also being very prone to injuries. That said, it's a big question whether any new signing would have been able to slot in seamlessly in a team where centre backs need to be as close to complete football players as possible. Catch 22 situation... I hate injuries.
 



lfc.eddie

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Can someone tell Edwards to go find the real world version of Dr. Rudy Wells? Maybe that's the man we should be looking to give contract to.....
 

Noo Noo

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If you asked me two or three months ago what was the part of this Liverpool side that I thought was in need of upgrading, I'd have said "midfield". Right now, with Fabinho and Wijnaldum impressing in double pivot, Henderson, Milner and Keita providing options, Firmino playing as an attacking midfielder/no. 10/second striker more often than not and Oxlade-Chamberlain hopefully returning fully fit ahead of the next season, I'd say that it's the defence that needs upgrading, not because of distinct lack of quality but their fitness that is unreliable, to put it mildly.

I wonder if there are any regrets with Klopp over not moving forward with signing a centre back he will probably sign this summer. I think he put most of his eggs in the Joe Gomez-returning-in-six-weeks basket and it backfired, especially with Lovren and Matip also being very prone to injuries. That said, it's a big question whether any new signing would have been able to slot in seamlessly in a team where centre backs need to be as close to complete football players as possible. Catch 22 situation... I hate injuries.
Yeah the Gomez one has screwed us a bit considering he can cover TAA as well.

I'm a bit behind on info with his injury so is the latest issue related to the original injury or another later one? If its the former i'd be looking carefully at the original assessment he was given. It probably influenced his thinking over the last month.

I t does look like another defender is becoming a priority for the Summer but I'll be honest I just don't know.
 

William Clarke

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I like what I see with Crystal Palace's Aaron Wan-Bisakka (not too sure of the spelling). He looks to have it all as a defender and is young, so the club could have several good years from him and get a good sell-on price later.

Edit: Bissaka
 
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Iluvatar

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We have a defensive issue that was wholly predictable and was predicted by some of us last summer when we didn't do anything about having so many injury prone centre backs (Matip out 5 months last season, Gomez out a quarter of the season, Lovren injured every six matches) and then let Klavan go instead of keeping him for insurance against this risk. Now we let Clyne go too.

You'd think a club with a statistical genius like Edwards and Hedge Fund owners would be able to identify risk and mitigate it.
And once again you fail spectacularly to recognise Clyne leaving was Klopps decision no-one else’s. Why? You have an anti FSG agenda, it drives every single one of your posts.
 

RedForever2014

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And once again you fail spectacularly to recognise Clyne leaving was Klopps decision no-one else’s. Why? You have an anti FSG agenda, it drives every single one of your posts.
If you think that everything that goes on in an organisation is how it appears from the outside, you've not spent much time in the higher echelons of organisations.

Look at the end of the day, I don't care who fucked up with Clyne, it was a poor decision.

But I accept it's done and the club just has to cope with this predictable injury crisis.
 



Iluvatar

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If you think that everything that goes on in an organisation is how it appears from the outside, you've not spent much time in the higher echelons of organisations.

Look at the end of the day, I don't care who fucked up with Clyne, it was a poor decision.

But I accept it's done and the club just has to cope with this predictable injury crisis.
I know Klopp doesn't bullshit, I know he cares about players as humans more than most managers.

Can you explain how can you predict an injury crisis? Gomez fractured a bone in a tackle, that could happen at any time to any player...
 

SirBillShankly

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I know Klopp doesn't bullshit, I know he cares about players as humans more than most managers.

Can you explain how can you predict an injury crisis? Gomez fractured a bone in a tackle, that could happen at any time to any player...
He has a point though hasn't he? We should have kept Clyney at the end of the day. He is decent cover for both sides.
 

LFC-Orlando

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Can folks give a rest to the long term outlook? Yeah, "we need to do this and we need to do that in the summer".

Let's pray this is not going to be the 3rd winter window we'll end up blaming for ending up 2nd.

A chance to go for the title comes once in a blue moon, or for us, 3 times in 25+ years. We fucked up in 08/09 but we were under the 2 tyrants who didn't have or want to invest a dime. And when we almost won it in 2014, we fucked up under Rodgers and this regime with insufficient cover for Henderson's injury which we knew about before end of Jan 2014. Granted we couldn't have predicted red cards but the MF overall did not have cover then.

It's all great if the manager decides that a young player like Camacho is sufficient cover, but he's not playing him. Thus, the club, manager, whoever, should have taken action this Winter window.
 
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redfanman

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Can folks give a rest to the long term outlook? Yeah, "we need to do this and we need to do that in the summer".

Let's pray this is not going to be the 3rd winter window we'll end up blaming for ending up 2nd.

A chance to go for the title comes once in a blue moon, or for us, 3 times in 25+ years. We fucked up in 08/09 but we were under the 2 tyrants who didn't have or want to invest a dime. And when we almost won it in 2014, we fucked up under Rodgers and this regime with insufficient cover for Henderson's injury which we knew about before end of Jan 2014. Granted we couldn't have predicted red cards but the MF overall did not have cover then.

It's all great if the manager decides that a young player like Camacho is sufficient cover, but he's not playing him. Thus, the club, manager, whoever, should have taken action this Winter window.
It's possible that Clyne wouldnt have played against Palace anyway, with Klopp wanting Milner there instead. The only game we've played where he may have played with certainty was the leicester game because Milner wasnt available, and our failure to win that game wasnt really down to us not having a regular right back there.

There was no need to take action in the winter window. Gomez was seen as being due back shortly, Trent was available until after the brighton game and we had Milner and Fabinho fit. Camacho will be an option there against teams that are not as strong on that flank as Leicester. Panic buying in January probably leaves you with a Kronkamp signing that you then cant get rid and cant play - and yet people constantly moan when we still have the likes of Lallana and Markovic on the books.
 



LFC-Orlando

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It's possible that Clyne wouldnt have played against Palace anyway, with Klopp wanting Milner there instead. The only game we've played where he may have played with certainty was the leicester game because Milner wasnt available, and our failure to win that game wasnt really down to us not having a regular right back there.

There was no need to take action in the winter window. Gomez was seen as being due back shortly, Trent was available until after the brighton game and we had Milner and Fabinho fit. Camacho will be an option there against teams that are not as strong on that flank as Leicester. Panic buying in January probably leaves you with a Kronkamp signing that you then cant get rid and cant play - and yet people constantly moan when we still have the likes of Lallana and Markovic on the books.
Wasn't talking about buying "for the future" in Jan.
When you're down an average of 3 defenders since Christmas, and still have 16-23 games to play in the PL and CL it's a crisis.
And when you have to play Hendo in RB and you lose Fabinho from your MF cause you're playing him as a CB, well, it's a mess.

If Clyne had to go to get a ton of minutes (or for us to get a few extra million for Solanke) great. It was a great move, no doubt.
But why didn't we go get a RB or CB? On loan or on perm.
 

LFC-Orlando

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Because buying a CB of the quality that is worth our while is not like buying new shoes off Amazon?
No, really?

I don't get it. We accepted the mediocrity of Klavan and Matip, as back up CB's and we can't find another one like that for half or a full season?

Same for RB. We'd have kept Clyne, had he not voiced his desire to start every week. Same with Moreno as our back up LB. We have mediocre back-up players in many positions.

Why leave ourselves without cover and thus have to play out of positions players? Oh, and I get the need to train together from summer on. But when you are down men, you are left with kids, who are not preferred to older, out of position players.

Let's just hope Milner and all our other older, versatile players can provide cover.
 

Iluvatar

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No, really?

I don't get it. We accepted the mediocrity of Klavan and Matip, as back up CB's and we can't find another one like that for half or a full season?

Same for RB. We'd have kept Clyne, had he not voiced his desire to start every week. Same with Moreno as our back up LB. We have mediocre back-up players in many positions.

Why leave ourselves without cover and thus have to play out of positions players? Oh, and I get the need to train together from summer on. But when you are down men, you are left with kids, who are not preferred to older, out of position players.

Let's just hope Milner and all our other older, versatile players can provide cover.
You are looking so so myopic. It's the same for every single club not just ours. You simply don't stock pile players in case of a "crisis" irrespective of what our anti-FSG man would have you believe.

City have basically a sovereign wealth to buy whoever they want yet..

If they get an injury to Fernandinho (arguably their most important player) their next player for that spot is Stones (center back), Delph (a no.8) or Gundogan (a no.8).
They have Delph (a central midfielder) playing left back for fucks sake since Mendy got injured.
When Walker got injured Laporte (a center half) was playing right back.

It's just a complete and utter fallacy that you have to have an elite back up for every position. You don't it's not realistic, what you have are flexible players who can do a job for the short period you have several injuries to your core positional player.

I guess Pep isn't being backed by his owners??
 

redfanman

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No, really?

I don't get it. We accepted the mediocrity of Klavan and Matip, as back up CB's and we can't find another one like that for half or a full season?

Same for RB. We'd have kept Clyne, had he not voiced his desire to start every week. Same with Moreno as our back up LB. We have mediocre back-up players in many positions.

Why leave ourselves without cover and thus have to play out of positions players? Oh, and I get the need to train together from summer on. But when you are down men, you are left with kids, who are not preferred to older, out of position players.

Let's just hope Milner and all our other older, versatile players can provide cover.
Klopp has already said that Camacho would have been given opportunities if we had played a team weaker than Leicester down that flank.

We have mediocre players in back up positions exactly because we brought them into the club and cant get rid of them - and now you are proposing we bring in..... mediocrity.

Personally, i dont think Klavan and Matip are mediocre. It's much harder to find CBs of that quality at this time of the season - they were both summer signings and would be starting regularly for a good side - or one that needs its best players and cant themselves replace them during this window.

Once you've signed them, then what? you have someone on the books that takes up a space that you Klopp was intending to use for blooding youngsters or to sign a proper upgrade who you may not even want - i thought we learnt this lesson under Rafa when he brought in Josemi and then Kronkamp and Degen.

Milner is back this weekend. Fabinho might be available to start this weekend. Trent should be back in the next week or two. Why do we need to sign a mediocre back up?