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Who would you buy?



RedSeven

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Brace yourself, mate...
What's wrong with Doherty that wasn't wrong with Robertson before we bought him.It's not only fashionable players who can do the job for us especially in FB position.
 

Mascot88

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They all want to be the one who took our dreams away. I had an Evertonian bragging to me to that effect yesterday. Poetic justice would be their defeat to City being the difference between them staying up and going down.
Why do you care?

It’s seems like a lot of fans spend way too much time worrying about what other fans think.

I couldn’t give a shit what a fan of another club thinks about Liverpool, least of all fucking Everton.
 

Mascot88

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What's wrong with Doherty that wasn't wrong with Robertson before we y him.It's not only fashionable players who ycan do the job for us especially in FB position.
No, I’m on about Trent. I suggested something similar with Wan-Bissaka and got pelted with tomatoes.
 



RedSeven

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No, I’m on about Trent. I suggested something similar with Wan-Bissaka and got pelted with tomatoes.
I must have missed that. I'll keep the head down then and come back when there's a shortage of tomatoes.
 

RedForever2014

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Why do you care?

It’s seems like a lot of fans spend way too much time worrying about what other fans think.

I couldn’t give a shit what a fan of another club thinks about Liverpool, least of all fucking Everton.
Not so much a case of caring, just really stating that there's a wall of hatred which LFC is up against and it's what feeds into institutional bias.

We all know directors of United et al all seek to influence the corridors of power.

It's subtle, but it's there, and ultimately it manifests in decisions made by the discipline committees and referees.
 

sms1986

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Not so much a case of caring, just really stating that there's a wall of hatred which LFC is up against and it's what feeds into institutional bias.
Most clubs get hate from rivals to some extent, we just notice it more when it's against our own club. I'm not sure why you take it from being about rival fans to conspiracy theories about the directors of rival clubs.

We all know directors of United et al all seek to influence the corridors of power.
They do? Must not be working the way United have steadily declined since Ferguson left.

It's subtle, but it's there, and ultimately it manifests in decisions made by the discipline committees and referees.
This is one of those things where few people are ever going to change their mind because it's subjective.
 

Red over the water

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Ndombele is a good shout for the midfield. But then again, I think Fabinho is going to be our boss for that position. The overall best midfield blend hasn’t really emerged yet though. AOC to come back will add a new dimension, and Wijnaldum has done very well this season. Henderson has been decent, but Keita hasn’t fully got going yet.

I think the biggest two needs in the squad are another striker, preferably versatile, but high quality.
The other big need is central defence. I would sell one or both of Lovren and Matip and upgrade the position. I really like Gomez alongside VVD and that might be the way to go, but I’d like a third option, preferably robust and reliably fit.

Those two players would see a lot of action, and then we can add one or two other back up options for lower cost, and/or promote some kids, which has served us well.
 



Iluvatar

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Not so much a case of caring, just really stating that there's a wall of hatred which LFC is up against and it's what feeds into institutional bias.

We all know directors of United et al all seek to influence the corridors of power.

It's subtle, but it's there, and ultimately it manifests in decisions made by the discipline committees and referees.
Considering Utd are 6th how is that exactly working out for them?
 

RedForever2014

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Because some Everton fans try and have some Bantz with you, this creates bias?

I’m lost.
Considering Utd are 6th how is that exactly working out for them?
Playing the man or the ball here chaps?

Was there not a study which concluded that LFC lost the most points to poor decisions last season and United gained the most?

That United are 6th despite getting favourable decisions is not the point.

My point is simply that in light of bias and prejudice against LFC that certainly exists in the media, and seemingly in the FA/PL and referees, in order to win things LFC has to go the extra mile that it wouldn't have to otherwise.
 

sms1986

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Was there not a study which concluded that LFC lost the most points to poor decisions last season and United gained the most?
That was one season which means it isn't necessarily the norm. If they did one for multiple seasons and found the same result happening consistently, then it could be seen as evidence of bias against us and towards United.

That United are 6th despite getting favourable decisions is not the point.
Have they had many more favourable decisions than us this season? We're joint top and they're fifth, although up until December they were underperforming badly,

My point is simply that in light of bias and prejudice against LFC that certainly exists in the media, and seemingly in the FA/PL and referees, in order to win things LFC has to go the extra mile that it wouldn't have to otherwise.
All clubs can claim some form of bias and prejudice against them that exists in the media and seemingly in the FA/PL/referees, certainly many fans from every club believe the referees are far worse for their team than others.

I don't believe we have to go the extra mile, we were just not that great in the 1990s and we almost went into administration not too long ago because of shitty owners. Now with better owners, a great manager and a strong squad we're better able to compete and we'll see more consistency in that regard over the next few seasons.
 

Mascot88

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Was there not a study which concluded that LFC lost the most points to poor decisions last season and United gained the most?
That study, if I remember correctly, adjusted for the affects of bad decisions and luck. whatever you think about bias, having a referee shaft you is hardly the same as hitting the post a lot.

If you want to use that as evidence of bias, the result may not be as damning as you think it is.
 



jaffod

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That study, if I remember correctly, adjusted for the affects of bad decisions and luck. whatever you think about bias, having a referee shaft you is hardly the same as hitting the post a lot.

If you want to use that as evidence of bias, the result may not be as damning as you think it is.
The 'luck' element was deflected goals only and everything else was based on bad decisions by the officials. None of the points we lost were down to deflected goals. 12 points equates to us having to win 4 games just to be on a level playing field and even that was compounded by City and United gaining points from bad decisions.
 

Red Eyes

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Playing the man or the ball here chaps?

Was there not a study which concluded that LFC lost the most points to poor decisions last season and United gained the most?

That United are 6th despite getting favourable decisions is not the point.

My point is simply that in light of bias and prejudice against LFC that certainly exists in the media, and seemingly in the FA/PL and referees, in order to win things LFC has to go the extra mile that it wouldn't have to otherwise.

.
I’ll bet there is a study that shows that over time, fans only remember the big decisions that go against them
 



sms1986

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It genuinely baffles me how any Liverpool supporter who's watched the shite we've had to endure over the last few seasons can still have the attitude that it 'all evens itself out'.
Who is saying that in this current discussion? Also, a lot of fans could say the same thing, we're just going to be biased towards our own team.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Based on what, though? A study of one season?
We've consistently been the team most negatively affected by the "justice league" or whatever they call it whenever they work out how teams have been harshly done by bad decisions. Like year after year after year. There's also high ranking football officials that have concurrently held roles at United and the FA. None of these points should be surprising to anyone. And the arguments that United are doing poorly are daft. If I ran a race against Bolt was unfairly given a false start and some body tripped him up half way through he'd probably still beat me. Does that mean I wasn't given an unfair advantage?
 

Red over the water

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Last season there was a study and we dropped a lot of points due to poor decisions. I don’t know where that is at this season as I haven’t seen it done. Anecdotally, I’d say we aren’t as hard done by as last season. I think of stuff like Mane’s goal against Arsenal that should have been given, but then his goal against West Ham should have been chalked off. There was a blatant penalty not given for a foul on Keita recently, but before that we seemed to get about three penalties in fairly quick succession in games - I thought they were all fair, but there was some wider criticism of Mo for going down too easily.

Beyond goal scoring incidents like that, I’d say that we have won a fair few games this season by a narrow margin. It’s all legitimate and good, but on another day, we might not have had so many wins but the defence saw us through.

If a study comes out on this season and shows we have been robbed blind, then obviously that should be taken on board. But based on watching our games and just going on memory and a general impression, I’d say overall we have got about what we have deserved.
 

sms1986

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We've consistently been the team most negatively affected by the "justice league" or whatever they call it whenever they work out how teams have been harshly done by bad decisions. Like year after year after year.
I'm sorry, but I've no idea what you're talking about. Would you be able to find what it is you're referring to?

There's also high ranking football officials that have concurrently held roles at United and the FA.
Can you name some of them? I bet there's examples of this for many clubs.

And the arguments that United are doing poorly are daft. If I ran a race against Bolt was unfairly given a false start and some body tripped him up half way through he'd probably still beat me. Does that mean I wasn't given an unfair advantage?
They are doing poorly, though - compare post-Ferguson United to Ferguson-era United.
 



GermanRed

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#influential

  • Alisson Goal
  • Virgil van Dijk back4
  • Mané and Salah attack

Time to bring in a quality midfielder (Box2Box) who has the same impact on our midfield without needing time to adapt.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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I'm sorry, but I've no idea what you're talking about. Would you be able to find what it is you're referring to?



Can you name some of them? I bet there's examples of this for many clubs.



They are doing poorly, though - compare post-Ferguson United to Ferguson-era United.
Google is your friend. They usually do those tables most years.

Yet again Google is your friend. You are telling people they are wrong for widely known facts why don't you look into it before telling others they are wrong. And no. No that very rarely happens as conflicts in interest are USUALLY discouraged.

Performance is not the same as advantages. Surely you get that? Just because United are performing worse than us how does that equate to evidence they aren't given advantages?
 

sms1986

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Google is your friend. They usually do those tables most years.
I would if I had a clue what to look for, I've tried searching but if you could provide a link that would be appreciated.

Yet again Google is your friend. You are telling people they are wrong for widely known facts why don't you look into it before telling others they are wrong.
So you can't provide any examples, you just expect me to search for proof of your claim? I know there's a couple, but I can't imagine there's far more associated with United than most other clubs.

Where am I telling people that they are wrong?

And no. No that very rarely happens as conflicts in interest are USUALLY discouraged.
But according to you, United are somehow different?

Performance is not the same as advantages. Surely you get that? Just because United are performing worse than us how does that equate to evidence they aren't given advantages?
So, we're biased against and somehow have half the world against us yet we're joint first, whilst United have all the advantages and benefits in the world but are fifth? If the authorities are actively trying to harm us and help them, they're not doing a very good job.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Last point yes because we are better! Why is that hard to understand? I'm out of shape and have a dodgy knee. If I lined up to race Usain Bolt he'd win every day of the week, even if the authorities made him give Johnny Vegas a piggy back during the race. It wouldn't be a fair race but the better person would still win! Just keep an eye out you should see the tables. They usually make the rounds each season. I can't remember seeing one that didn't have us as the most hard done by party in the league. I've seen at least 5 over the last 7 or 8 years. United are usually one of the teams that unfortunately benefit the most. And David Gill.
 

sms1986

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Last point yes because we are better! Why is that hard to understand?
So we're doing better and doing so regardless of the alleged bias, right?

I'm out of shape and have a dodgy knee. If I lined up to race Usain Bolt he'd win every day of the week, even if the authorities made him give Johnny Vegas a piggy back during the race. It wouldn't be a fair race but the better person would still win!
I'm sorry, I'm just not understanding your analogy,, which one is Liverpool and which is United? If we're Bolt then why weren't we winning during the 1990s as surely the better person would win even with Vegas on our back? If we're you, then both Liverpool and United have disadvantages and you're essentially saying United are better.

Just keep an eye out you should see the tables. They usually make the rounds each season. I can't remember seeing one that didn't have us as the most hard done by party in the league. I've seen at least 5 over the last 7 or 8 years.
I've never heard of these tables or seen one and I don't even have a clue how to find one because Google doesn't seem to be bringing up anything.

United are usually one of the teams that unfortunately benefit the most. And David Gill.
One example? Who also has had most of his time with both during the post-Ferguson decline?