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Who would you buy?

Red over the water

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Last season there was a study and we dropped a lot of points due to poor decisions. I don’t know where that is at this season as I haven’t seen it done. Anecdotally, I’d say we aren’t as hard done by as last season. I think of stuff like Mane’s goal against Arsenal that should have been given, but then his goal against West Ham should have been chalked off. There was a blatant penalty not given for a foul on Keita recently, but before that we seemed to get about three penalties in fairly quick succession in games - I thought they were all fair, but there was some wider criticism of Mo for going down too easily.

Beyond goal scoring incidents like that, I’d say that we have won a fair few games this season by a narrow margin. It’s all legitimate and good, but on another day, we might not have had so many wins but the defence saw us through.

If a study comes out on this season and shows we have been robbed blind, then obviously that should be taken on board. But based on watching our games and just going on memory and a general impression, I’d say overall we have got about what we have deserved.
 


sms1986

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We've consistently been the team most negatively affected by the "justice league" or whatever they call it whenever they work out how teams have been harshly done by bad decisions. Like year after year after year.
I'm sorry, but I've no idea what you're talking about. Would you be able to find what it is you're referring to?

There's also high ranking football officials that have concurrently held roles at United and the FA.
Can you name some of them? I bet there's examples of this for many clubs.

And the arguments that United are doing poorly are daft. If I ran a race against Bolt was unfairly given a false start and some body tripped him up half way through he'd probably still beat me. Does that mean I wasn't given an unfair advantage?
They are doing poorly, though - compare post-Ferguson United to Ferguson-era United.
 

GermanRed

from doubters to believers to sky-high achievers
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#influential

  • Alisson Goal
  • Virgil van Dijk back4
  • Mané and Salah attack

Time to bring in a quality midfielder (Box2Box) who has the same impact on our midfield without needing time to adapt.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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I'm sorry, but I've no idea what you're talking about. Would you be able to find what it is you're referring to?



Can you name some of them? I bet there's examples of this for many clubs.



They are doing poorly, though - compare post-Ferguson United to Ferguson-era United.
Google is your friend. They usually do those tables most years.

Yet again Google is your friend. You are telling people they are wrong for widely known facts why don't you look into it before telling others they are wrong. And no. No that very rarely happens as conflicts in interest are USUALLY discouraged.

Performance is not the same as advantages. Surely you get that? Just because United are performing worse than us how does that equate to evidence they aren't given advantages?
 

sms1986

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Google is your friend. They usually do those tables most years.
I would if I had a clue what to look for, I've tried searching but if you could provide a link that would be appreciated.

Yet again Google is your friend. You are telling people they are wrong for widely known facts why don't you look into it before telling others they are wrong.
So you can't provide any examples, you just expect me to search for proof of your claim? I know there's a couple, but I can't imagine there's far more associated with United than most other clubs.

Where am I telling people that they are wrong?

And no. No that very rarely happens as conflicts in interest are USUALLY discouraged.
But according to you, United are somehow different?

Performance is not the same as advantages. Surely you get that? Just because United are performing worse than us how does that equate to evidence they aren't given advantages?
So, we're biased against and somehow have half the world against us yet we're joint first, whilst United have all the advantages and benefits in the world but are fifth? If the authorities are actively trying to harm us and help them, they're not doing a very good job.
 



Anfield rd Dreamer

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Last point yes because we are better! Why is that hard to understand? I'm out of shape and have a dodgy knee. If I lined up to race Usain Bolt he'd win every day of the week, even if the authorities made him give Johnny Vegas a piggy back during the race. It wouldn't be a fair race but the better person would still win! Just keep an eye out you should see the tables. They usually make the rounds each season. I can't remember seeing one that didn't have us as the most hard done by party in the league. I've seen at least 5 over the last 7 or 8 years. United are usually one of the teams that unfortunately benefit the most. And David Gill.
 

sms1986

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Last point yes because we are better! Why is that hard to understand?
So we're doing better and doing so regardless of the alleged bias, right?

I'm out of shape and have a dodgy knee. If I lined up to race Usain Bolt he'd win every day of the week, even if the authorities made him give Johnny Vegas a piggy back during the race. It wouldn't be a fair race but the better person would still win!
I'm sorry, I'm just not understanding your analogy,, which one is Liverpool and which is United? If we're Bolt then why weren't we winning during the 1990s as surely the better person would win even with Vegas on our back? If we're you, then both Liverpool and United have disadvantages and you're essentially saying United are better.

Just keep an eye out you should see the tables. They usually make the rounds each season. I can't remember seeing one that didn't have us as the most hard done by party in the league. I've seen at least 5 over the last 7 or 8 years.
I've never heard of these tables or seen one and I don't even have a clue how to find one because Google doesn't seem to be bringing up anything.

United are usually one of the teams that unfortunately benefit the most. And David Gill.
One example? Who also has had most of his time with both during the post-Ferguson decline?
 



redbj

hurry up, July 1st, let's get the show on the road
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Why do you care?

It’s seems like a lot of fans spend way too much time worrying about what other fans think.

I couldn’t give a shit what a fan of another club thinks about Liverpool, least of all fucking Everton.
Couldn’t agree more.

Had a convo with a bitter at training the other night.....

....he says...

‘ it’s a difficult choice whether we want to win or not, if you know what I mean’

.....I says.......

‘Not really, I don’t know what you mean, I’d just want my team to win’


He’s a pretty decent guy, so I’m not laying the boot in.....

He also went on to say

‘ it,d be just typical of us (Everton) to win this game’.......

No it wouldn’t mate. No it wouldn’t.
 

Show me the Mane

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Huddersfield look doomed
Philip Billing is only 22 years old and could be a decent signing for someone, whether Liverpool would be interested, I doubt it but I have been impressed with him and I'm sure he'd look better in a better side
 

Iluvatar

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Kai Havertz is really starting to deliver on his potential. 11 goals and 6 assists in 2230 minutes @ 19 is bloody impressive. I'm sure we will at some point go in for him, he was shown around Anfield/Melwood when he was 17 I believe.

Him and Werner would be the dream to compliment our midfield/attack.

Add those two plus someone like Lloyd Kelly who can deputise for Robertson at left back and learn under Virgil at center half.

Then it's the question of do we replace Matip/Lovren - I'd say yes due to injuries and their complete inability to be reliable. De Ligt or Militao is the dream, but would we go big for another prospect or would we bring in someone to rotate with Gomez and is proven a solid/reliable right center half? Militao would be my choice simply due to the fact he plays right back to a top standard as well and flexibility seems the order of the day here.

Havertz - CM/AM : £60mil
Werner - LF/CF : £45mil
Kelly - LB/CB : £15mil
Militao - CB/RB : £50mil

£170mil seems about right for our spend considering what we have in the bank.

p.s. Bild reckons Edwards was in Germany this past week.
 

vzok

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Huddersfield look doomed
Philip Billing is only 22 years old and could be a decent signing for someone, whether Liverpool would be interested, I doubt it but I have been impressed with him and I'm sure he'd look better in a better side
What sort of referee is he?
 



Anfield rd Dreamer

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On the thoughts on CB there's two things I'd consider separately.

First a CB who can also play LB (a left sided Gomez could potentially be a solution to a lot of issues).

Second a top CB (preferably youngish) that can be relied upon to play week in week out as it's unrealistic to rely upon Gomez and Van Dijk always being available.

One or both come in and I could see Lovren wanting to leave for somewhere he'll be undisputed first choice. At his age and unreliability from a fitness and performance level I'd let him get his wish. Both come in and I think it's time to move Matip on too.

Who I target would depend on what's happening in the bigger picture.

If we are only bringing one in then someone like Romagnoli to play CB and LB makes sense. But if we brought in someone like De Ligt then going big on the second position doesn't make as much sense.

Going back to the reasons why we targeted Van Dijk we need a very broad spectrum of abilities at CB.

They've got to be big and dominant in the air as it's one of the only attacking avenues left open to opposition. Likewise quick paced too to combat through balls on the counter with our high line.

They have to have a brain in their head but I'm sure Klopp can work on their tactical awareness if needed. Got to be good and comfortable on the ball though. Also got to be able to stand up for themselves physically as it's a tougher league than most. Will spend large parts of the game isolated so cant need leading through games, got to at least have internal leadership/ability to make their own decisions.

I said when we were targeting Virgil that you don't have to be the best at all of these and there may be "better" CBs out there that don't have every box ticked.

Under those criteria there's a few names I've thought of we go big for a starting capable CB but I've only got limited knowledge.

Mentioned Romagnoli before as someone I think could play both CB and LB under Klopp anyone with better knowledge of Italian football agree or disagree?

De Ligt gets mentioned a lot as a pure CB option but can he handle our rough league? It'll be expensive to find out.

Always been impressed by Lascelles who flies under the radar, would he be ready for the step up?

Does Maguire have the technical requirements?

Koulibaly seems a good choice.

Anyone familiar with German players got an opinion on Jonathan Tah? He seems to tick all the boxes and young enough to really kick on.
 

SirBillShankly

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Good list of CB's there but to my eyes Maguire is FAR too slow. Lascelles is a leader but is he good enough? Koulibaly and De Ligt would be HUGE money but we can't have Gomez on the bench. Maybe we'll aim a bit lower and cheaper?

Skriniar is highly rated. Would he be an option for us? And what about Ogbonna? Looks like a good defender every time I watch West Ham.
 

RedSeven

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Good list of CB's there but to my eyes Maguire is FAR too slow. Lascelles is a leader but is he good enough? Koulibaly and De Ligt would be HUGE money but we can't have Gomez on the bench. Maybe we'll aim a bit lower and cheaper?

Skriniar is highly rated. Would he be an option for us? And what about Ogbonna? Looks like a good defender every time I watch West Ham.

Would the young lad we're up against today at Bournemouth be an option,Nathan Aké.I know there's something about chelsea having an option on him but that doesn't mean we couldn't try.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Would the young lad we're up against today at Bournemouth be an option,Nathan Aké.I know there's something about chelsea having an option on him but that doesn't mean we couldn't try.
Really not convinced by anyone under 6'2" being capable of defending what opponents throw at us. Do get some shorter defenders that are strong in the air but not sure Ake is one of them.
 



GermanRed

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Really not convinced by anyone under 6'2" being capable of defending what opponents throw at us. Do get some shorter defenders that are strong in the air but not sure Ake is one of them.
Don’t you think Aké would have been able to defend the goal Agüero scored against us because he is faster and more flexible/mobile than Lovren?

I agree that his height can be an problem for a CB but it’s not like we face big men striker in every game.
 

redfanman

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On the thoughts on CB there's two things I'd consider separately.

First a CB who can also play LB (a left sided Gomez could potentially be a solution to a lot of issues).

Second a top CB (preferably youngish) that can be relied upon to play week in week out as it's unrealistic to rely upon Gomez and Van Dijk always being available.

One or both come in and I could see Lovren wanting to leave for somewhere he'll be undisputed first choice. At his age and unreliability from a fitness and performance level I'd let him get his wish. Both come in and I think it's time to move Matip on too.

Who I target would depend on what's happening in the bigger picture.

If we are only bringing one in then someone like Romagnoli to play CB and LB makes sense. But if we brought in someone like De Ligt then going big on the second position doesn't make as much sense.

Going back to the reasons why we targeted Van Dijk we need a very broad spectrum of abilities at CB.

They've got to be big and dominant in the air as it's one of the only attacking avenues left open to opposition. Likewise quick paced too to combat through balls on the counter with our high line.

They have to have a brain in their head but I'm sure Klopp can work on their tactical awareness if needed. Got to be good and comfortable on the ball though. Also got to be able to stand up for themselves physically as it's a tougher league than most. Will spend large parts of the game isolated so cant need leading through games, got to at least have internal leadership/ability to make their own decisions.

I said when we were targeting Virgil that you don't have to be the best at all of these and there may be "better" CBs out there that don't have every box ticked.

Under those criteria there's a few names I've thought of we go big for a starting capable CB but I've only got limited knowledge.

Mentioned Romagnoli before as someone I think could play both CB and LB under Klopp anyone with better knowledge of Italian football agree or disagree?

De Ligt gets mentioned a lot as a pure CB option but can he handle our rough league? It'll be expensive to find out.

Always been impressed by Lascelles who flies under the radar, would he be ready for the step up?

Does Maguire have the technical requirements?

Koulibaly seems a good choice.

Anyone familiar with German players got an opinion on Jonathan Tah? He seems to tick all the boxes and young enough to really kick on.
WE were linked heavily with Tah a few years ago, has he kicked on since then?

Not sure that we can bring in established players as cover that easily. Think We're more likely to get someone like Klavan at the tail end of his career, or a journeyman
 

redfanman

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Don’t you think Aké would have been able to defend the goal Agüero scored against us because he is faster and more flexible/mobile than Lovren?

I agree that his height can be an problem for a CB but it’s not like we face big men striker in every game.
I haven't seen enough of Ake but from what little I have, I am left wondering why people are so eager we sign him...
 



Anfield rd Dreamer

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How do you feel about those taller than 6'2",someone like Matip.
Matip can be good enough. But he can be inconsistent and hesitant. Main reason for letting him move on though is his injury issues. He's a fantastic 4th choice on ability.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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WE were linked heavily with Tah a few years ago, has he kicked on since then?

Not sure that we can bring in established players as cover that easily. Think We're more likely to get someone like Klavan at the tail end of his career, or a journeyman
They're not cover though. How much has Lovren and Matip played between them? With a top CB around he would play loads. Gomez misses games and covers RB. If it was someone like Romagnoli you might find he could play pretty much every game appropriate taking into account missed games and rest. We really need to get past a starting 11 and cover players. It's not the reality anymore.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Don’t you think Aké would have been able to defend the goal Agüero scored against us because he is faster and more flexible/mobile than Lovren?

I agree that his height can be an problem for a CB but it’s not like we face big men striker in every game.
It's one of two ways opposition teams have open to them to try and get to us. High balls over the top or crossed from the wing or set pieces. The other is balls for quick players to run onto in an attempt to beat the high line. We need CBs who are fast paced and good in the air not just one or the other.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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@GermanRed is this accurate on Tah?

"Another young star who has taken his game to another level so far this season, Jonathan Tah is ranked the second-best defender in the Bundesliga with 69.34% of challenges won.

Strong in the challenge and with a good turn of pace, the Leverkusen man is also comfortable in possession and is never afraid to use a bit of skill to get himself out a tight situation.

Tah may have been unlucky to miss out on Germany’s squad for the 2018 FIFA World Cup although it could prove to be a blessing in disguise following their embarassing group-stage exit, and it has taken national team coach Joachim Low long to introduce the 23-year-old back into the fold."