• Hey Guest!
    Enjoy the This Is Anfield Forums but want to remove the adverts? Now you can do so by clicking here.
    Thanks for your support!

Who would you buy?

Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
22,194
Clearly we haven't got rid of that mentality as there's now 3 responses all basically saying don't sign a starting quality CB.

Gomez is great. I really love the lad. But he's started 12 games at CB this season. We've had someone other than Gomez or VvD starting at CB 24 times this season. And thats with VvD starting 32 so far and not being rested as much as he should. Theres room for a starting quality CB no matter how good Gomez is. He's missed significant game time each season so far for different reasons. We can't guarantee that will change. So we either stick with Lovren and Matip next season (and lose Matip on a free the following summer or extend his contract which will probably pay far higher than he deserves) or sell Matip and buy someone. I don't like Mascots idea of using Fabinho there either as I think he should be starting CM whenever possible. He's creative and defensive and helps the side tick. What would you do? I'd sign someone like Tah, giving him the impression there's a starting role up for grabs if he settles in and works hard to earn it. If Gomez stays fit, works hard and plays well no doubt he'll play too.
I don’t think you have understood my point about Fabinho.
 

lfc.eddie

"¿Plata... O Plomo?"
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
53,286
@lfc.eddie me twisting? The part of my post you seemed to respond to was this;

"Finally, although he may not be "injury prone" exactly, Gomez seems to miss significant game time every season. So even if he's "2nd" choice we'd need to bring in a CB as good or better than Lovren to be "3rd" choice as there is a high likelihood that they could end up playing significant game time. So you damn well don't tell that player they'll be behind Gomez in the pecking order. You tell them you want them to settle quickly, get up to speed as there's no reason they shouldn't be able to start for you. We need to get away from this mentality of 11 good players and everyone else cover. Whoever our third choice CB is should be as good as Gomez or Gomez himself."

Your response appeared to be:

Where did I say make Gomez a permanent sub? Even with a new CB Gomez would still start a lot.
Nope.... My response to the discussion is to dismiss the idea that Gomez being a 3rd choice, which classify as permanent sub to me, Unless you have other ways of seeing being 3rd choice in 2 spots position.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
11,737
Nope.... My response to the discussion is to dismiss the idea that Gomez being a 3rd choice, which classify as permanent sub to me, Unless you have other ways of seeing being 3rd choice in 2 spots position.
Yes. 50/60 odd games equals enough starts for 3 CBs. Especially as one misses significant game time so far and also plays another position too (whether you agree with Klopp or not he's still our 2nd choice RB for now).
 

ILLOK

In the Danger Zone.
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
16,157
Yet again you're saying what I said wrong. To clarify;

"Even a semi decent CB these days is likely to cost at least 35 million especially as Klopp prefers to bring in younger players (which is obviously the intelligent choice) and that's where the premium appears to be now. There isn't actually much point in bringing in a rubbish/half decent CB to purely be cover at 35 million if you can get the best around to at least compete with Gomez for a starting spot for 25 million more at absolute maximum (rumoured price for De Ligt) and possibly a lot less extra."
That doesn't clarify much, your post is all over the place.

When did anybody advocate bringing in a rubbish player for £35 million as cover?
 

Iluvatar

Allez (x6)
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2015
Messages
8,195
How good is Militao? He got more rave reviews for his performance against Roma from Italy-based journalists I follow on Twitter. Seems like someone who could be a genuine option for Liverpool (on multiple levels) from what I've heard.
Well Real Madrid want him, so that would point to being pretty decent! £45mil release clause.
 

Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
22,194
Yes. 50/60 odd games equals enough starts for 3 CBs. Especially as one misses significant game time so far and also plays another position too (whether you agree with Klopp or not he's still our 2nd choice RB for now).
I think it’s harsh to say he missed significant game time. He isn’t Sturridge, who breaks whenever he breaks into a run, or Lovren who will miss two month with ‘the vapours’.

He broke his ankle in a shithouse tackle. That’s not being susceptible to injury. And I would not be playing him as a right back anymore, and if that’s Klopp’s plan I profoundly disagree with it.
 

Nikola

"Oh, history writer, don't close the pages yet!"
Admin
Joined
May 17, 2007
Messages
18,756
I wonder how much it would take to prise Anderson away from the Hammers. Think he'd be a fantastic addition. Also Son.
Not sure about Anderson's impact in big games but his talent was obvious since his Lazio days, I once thought his next move would be Real Madrid or Juventus. He's rediscovering himself at West Ham but they'd ask for an arm and a leg, I guess... As for Son, just when I think he can't get any more useful, he gets more useful. A gem for Tottenham and he's precisely the kind of player Liverpool need at this moment. I literally can't think of anyone else who would be a better fit for this Liverpool side than him (other than Rashford, of course) and, believe me, I've tried. If he only hadn't extended his contract...
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
11,737
That doesn't clarify much, your post is all over the place.

When did anybody advocate bringing in a rubbish player for £35 million as cover?
So are you advocating bringing in a limited player who would only ever be for cover? Or a player good enough to be starting which is what I'm saying I would do!

I literally state in that first sentence that even a semi decent young CB (ie cover) is likely to set you back around £35 million these days. If you disagree with that valuation fine but I'm not sure why you are claiming my post is all over the place?

In my opinion a semi decent cover option is likely to cost around £35 million whilst the most expensive young CB (De Ligt) is only likely to cost £60 million.

So, providing it's not De Ligt we go for, any other young CB we go for as a target should be somewhere in between those figures.

I've ignored the possibilities of a player nearing the end of his contract or signed from out of nowhere as both are possible moves Klopp could make that I wouldn't be able to predict. But say it came down to a choice between someone like Tarkowski or Ake signed specifically to be young cover at CB, well would they really be much cheaper than Romagnoli or Tah or someone who could be eyed as a potential starter?

If we are bringing in a CB to replace Matip then I think it should be the best young CB available to us. Matip and Lovren have limited time left with us and although we all hope for the best Gomez is yet to have a season where he hasn't missed significant game time for one reason or another. He's also (whether it's popular or not) apparently Klopps first choice to cover for Trent at RB so even when fit wouldn't play CB every time he plays.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
11,737
I think it’s harsh to say he missed significant game time. He isn’t Sturridge, who breaks whenever he breaks into a run, or Lovren who will miss two month with ‘the vapours’.

He broke his ankle in a shithouse tackle. That’s not being susceptible to injury. And I would not be playing him as a right back anymore, and if that’s Klopp’s plan I profoundly disagree with it.
Lovren has been registered as injured for 9 matches over the last 3 seasons. Sturridge 24 matches. Gomez (still injured and guaranteed to miss more) has missed 36 matches. I limited it to the last 3 seasons or Gomez gets over 50 added to his number from the season before and that seemed cruel. Whether it's fair or not Joe has missed significant numbers of matches every season. Last season was his best so far only missing 7 for us but that did take him out for the world cup. Joe is amazing. Everything you could want from a home grown CB. Hell everything you could want from a mega money CB signing and I want him staying at the club as long as possible with an important role here. But I'm worried about his availability. If his career continues like this we've got our own Ledley King.
 

ILLOK

In the Danger Zone.
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
16,157
So are you advocating bringing in a limited player who would only ever be for cover? Or a player good enough to be starting which is what I'm saying I would do!
Again, missing the point.

I'm not advocating signing a 'limited' player per se, you seem to think I want another Klavan. I don't. You seem to think that unless a load of money is thrown at a player he cannot compete for a position.

Tah and Romagnoli are 'limited' compared to Gomez. Both are older yet haven't played to the level he has and neither have his combination of athleticism and ball playing quality. I'd pick Gomez every time.

You're hung up on this £35 million figure yet Akanji went for half of that. Pavard went for less than that.

There are options other than spunking a load of money at every single problem like you always suggest.
 
Last edited:

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
11,737
Again, missing the point.

I'm not advocating signing a 'limited' player per se, you seem to think I want another Klavan. I don't. You seem to think that unless a load of money is thrown at a player he cannot compete for a position.

Tah and Romagnoli are 'limited' compared to Gomez. Both are older yet haven't played to the level he has and neither have his combination of athleticism and ball playing quality. I'd pick Gomez every time.

You're hung up on this £35 million figure yet Akanji went for half of that. Pavard went for less than that.

There are options other than spunking a load of money at every single problem like you always suggest.
I mentioned in my last response to you that Klopp may sign someone from somewhere off the beaten track like Akanji coming from the Swiss league. Yes that is a possibility to keep the costs down. I don't think Akanji would automatically compete/demote Lovren from 3rd choice let alone challenge Gomez. Pavard is set to transfer in the summer for €35 million which is currently less than £35 million but may not be by then. But Bayern have somehow always been able to underpay when buying from German clubs.
 

lfc.eddie

"¿Plata... O Plomo?"
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
53,286
There are options other than spunking a load of money at every single problem like you always suggest.
The irony in this discussion is, there aren't any problems other than this freakish injury suffered by our centre-halves this season. Very out of the ordinary for any club to be facing this and most do at least once in every few seasons. But isolated problem that may or may not be a problem been made as if it is a big one. I find that very odd.... If one of our centre half moved on, we will definitely sign one. But so far there is no sign of us wanting to let any of them go, so the hung up on needing a centre half is all in the head of the fans.
 

ILLOK

In the Danger Zone.
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
16,157
The irony in this discussion is, there aren't any problems other than this freakish injury suffered by our centre-halves this season. Very out of the ordinary for any club to be facing this and most do at least once in every few seasons. But isolated problem that may or may not be a problem been made as if it is a big one. I find that very odd.... If one of our centre half moved on, we will definitely sign one. But so far there is no sign of us wanting to let any of them go, so the hung up on needing a centre half is all in the head of the fans.
That's probably correct. Whilst Lovren has never been Mr Reliable he has been hampered this season by returning from the WC with an injury, he's been playing catch up ever since. Combine that with the misfortune of 2 impact injuries causing fractures and you have some issues.

Gomez has had to play at RB this year and last due to necessity, and he did it well, but the time has come to remedy that problem and let him focus on playing at CB. With all that in mind we should be better set to go next season.

So many of our minor issues relating to squad depth can be fixed with players already in the squad. Honestly, I'd be happy with a pair of full backs and one attacking player in the summer and calling it a day. Get a couple of players back from loan, get Chamberlain and Brewster involved, ship out the likes of Moreno, Clyne, Lallana, Sturridge, Origi etc.

We're probably not going to spend at the same level we have over the last 2 windows, and that's absolutely fine. We've got a large handful of talented young players who need to be given a chance.
 

Nikola

"Oh, history writer, don't close the pages yet!"
Admin
Joined
May 17, 2007
Messages
18,756
That's probably correct. Whilst Lovren has never been Mr Reliable he has been hampered this season by returning from the WC with an injury, he's been playing catch up ever since. Combine that with the misfortune of 2 impact injuries causing fractures and you have some issues.

Gomez has had to play at RB this year and last due to necessity, and he did it well, but the time has come to remedy that problem and let him focus on playing at CB. With all that in mind we should be better set to go next season.

So many of our minor issues relating to squad depth can be fixed with players already in the squad. Honestly, I'd be happy with a pair of full backs and one attacking player in the summer and calling it a day. Get a couple of players back from loan, get Chamberlain and Brewster involved, ship out the likes of Moreno, Clyne, Lallana, Sturridge, Origi etc.

We're probably not going to spend at the same level we have over the last 2 windows, and that's absolutely fine.
Net spend should return to the norm, I'm pretty sure of it. I tend to think about selling the likes of Origi, Clyne and Lallana (quite possibly Matip and Mignolet as well) but a fair share of money has already been earned by selling Solanke and Ings - not sure if that counts towards the summer chest but it's still money raised for the club. I fully agree with you and I'm sure that Klopp will do as he always does: make the most out of what he has at his disposal.

There are some deficiencies in the squad that I expect him to take care of this summer through buying, though, and those are a striker and a centre back. Other than that, I think he'll stop after replacing Moreno and Mignolet, I really don't see Lewis and Kelleher or Grabara getting the promotion there, not yet at least. The squad is not yet at Man City's level but that getting these four right would go a long way towards achieving that, in my opinion.
 

Jamie91

New Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2017
Messages
39
Bertrand to replace Moreno
Werner to replace Sturridge
Zaha to replace Origi and Lallana
Rabiot to replace Milner if he returns to Leeds
De ligt to replace Lovren/Matip.

This would leave us with a squad to challenge on all fronts. Especially adding Wilson, Chamberlain and Brewster.
 

MW2833

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2018
Messages
674
Bertrand to replace Moreno
Werner to replace Sturridge
Zaha to replace Origi and Lallana
Rabiot to replace Milner if he returns to Leeds
De ligt to replace Lovren/Matip.

This would leave us with a squad to challenge on all fronts. Especially adding Wilson, Chamberlain and Brewster.
Bertrand is 29 and I doubt Klopp would buy a player who is already at his peak and not good enough for a top 6 side. There are many better, younger options than him in the market.
Also, I don't think we would need both Werner and Zaha.
The players you have suggested would cost around:
Bertrand 15 mil
Zaha 60 mil
Werner 60 mil
Rabiot Free, but huge wages
De Ligt 65 mil
Which totals 200 million.
I don't think we will spend that much this Summer, and even if we do, we could get much better players for that price (mostly talking about Bertrand and Zaha).
 

ILLOK

In the Danger Zone.
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
16,157
Net spend should return to the norm, I'm pretty sure of it. I tend to think about selling the likes of Origi, Clyne and Lallana (quite possibly Matip and Mignolet as well) but a fair share of money has already been earned by selling Solanke and Ings - not sure if that counts towards the summer chest but it's still money raised for the club. I fully agree with you and I'm sure that Klopp will do as he always does: make the most out of what he has at his disposal.

There are some deficiencies in the squad that I expect him to take care of this summer through buying, though, and those are a striker and a centre back. Other than that, I think he'll stop after replacing Moreno and Mignolet, I really don't see Lewis and Kelleher or Grabara getting the promotion there, not yet at least. The squad is not yet at Man City's level but that getting these four right would go a long way towards achieving that, in my opinion.
Klopp replacing Mignolet and Matip/Lovren probably hinges on those players forcing a way out themselves. If they're happy to stay I can see us doing no business in those areas. Agree regarding those youth players, they're not ready.

I've come around to your way of thinking re fullbacks, I think it's vital we have attacking options there when Trent and Robertson aren't available. Milner's not quite got the speed to get up and down the flank as much as is necessary but we've seen how he's been instrumental in opening opposition sides up with his clever movement and quality on the ball. Having that ability in the full back areas is the tipping point for us when it comes to breaking down 'park the bus' sides, you can mark our front players but it's almost impossible to stop fullbacks making those diagonal runs in behind, especially when you have a player like Fabinho who is so effective at picking them out. Sessegnon has that quality and attacking instinct to do it on the left, not sure who would be a similar option on the right (I don't see Wan-Bisakka being that player, or that attainable).
 

MW2833

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2018
Messages
674
Klopp replacing Mignolet and Matip/Lovren probably hinges on those players forcing a way out themselves. If they're happy to stay I can see us doing no business in those areas. Agree regarding those youth players, they're not ready.

I've come around to your way of thinking re fullbacks, I think it's vital we have attacking options there when Trent and Robertson aren't available. Milner's not quite got the speed to get up and down the flank as much as is necessary but we've seen how he's been instrumental in opening opposition sides up with his clever movement and quality on the ball. Having that ability in the full back areas is the tipping point for us when it comes to breaking down 'park the bus' sides, you can mark our front players but it's almost impossible to stop fullbacks making those diagonal runs in behind, especially when you have a player like Fabinho who is so effective at picking them out. Sessegnon has that quality and attacking instinct to do it on the left, not sure who would be a similar option on the right (I don't see Wan-Bisakka being that player, or that attainable).
Is there any sort of release clause which will allow Sessegnon to leave for cheaper if Fulham get relegated (like Shaqiri's)?
 

redfanman

TIA Regular
Ad-free Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2008
Messages
14,312
Klopp replacing Mignolet and Matip/Lovren probably hinges on those players forcing a way out themselves. If they're happy to stay I can see us doing no business in those areas. Agree regarding those youth players, they're not ready.

I've come around to your way of thinking re fullbacks, I think it's vital we have attacking options there when Trent and Robertson aren't available. Milner's not quite got the speed to get up and down the flank as much as is necessary but we've seen how he's been instrumental in opening opposition sides up with his clever movement and quality on the ball. Having that ability in the full back areas is the tipping point for us when it comes to breaking down 'park the bus' sides, you can mark our front players but it's almost impossible to stop fullbacks making those diagonal runs in behind, especially when you have a player like Fabinho who is so effective at picking them out. Sessegnon has that quality and attacking instinct to do it on the left, not sure who would be a similar option on the right (I don't see Wan-Bisakka being that player, or that attainable).
I saw someone suggest the Right back at Wolves as being a good option - cant remember who that is, and dont know how feasible that move would be. Otherwise it might be a case of how quickly we could get camacho and Hoever into shape to play there next season.
 

redfanman

TIA Regular
Ad-free Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2008
Messages
14,312
Net spend should return to the norm, I'm pretty sure of it. I tend to think about selling the likes of Origi, Clyne and Lallana (quite possibly Matip and Mignolet as well) but a fair share of money has already been earned by selling Solanke and Ings - not sure if that counts towards the summer chest but it's still money raised for the club. I fully agree with you and I'm sure that Klopp will do as he always does: make the most out of what he has at his disposal.

There are some deficiencies in the squad that I expect him to take care of this summer through buying, though, and those are a striker and a centre back. Other than that, I think he'll stop after replacing Moreno and Mignolet, I really don't see Lewis and Kelleher or Grabara getting the promotion there, not yet at least. The squad is not yet at Man City's level but that getting these four right would go a long way towards achieving that, in my opinion.
I keep seeing people mention the Ings money being treated as earned already - but isnt he on loan with an option? Does Southampton have any say in whether that option gets taken up? Those players you've listed above should net us around £60m i guess, plus the regular £30-40m that seems to be there should see about £100m without overstretching.

It will be interesting to see how much money the new contracts are taking up out of available funds. A genuine league title challenge and another good run in the CL with increased merchandising (saw recent article on the club store having to re-order more shirts as they couldnt keep up with demand) should give us a hefty wadge of cash but those contract extensions wont have come cheaply.

If Matip or Lovren leaves i dont see us getting much cash coming in as they will be on massive wages. How likely is it that Karius will get a permanent move this summer?
 

MW2833

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2018
Messages
674
Sessegnon has that quality and attacking instinct to do it on the left, not sure who would be a similar option on the right (I don't see Wan-Bisakka being that player, or that attainable).
Camacho maybe depending on how he develops.
 

Nikola

"Oh, history writer, don't close the pages yet!"
Admin
Joined
May 17, 2007
Messages
18,756
Klopp replacing Mignolet and Matip/Lovren probably hinges on those players forcing a way out themselves. If they're happy to stay I can see us doing no business in those areas. Agree regarding those youth players, they're not ready.

I've come around to your way of thinking re fullbacks, I think it's vital we have attacking options there when Trent and Robertson aren't available. Milner's not quite got the speed to get up and down the flank as much as is necessary but we've seen how he's been instrumental in opening opposition sides up with his clever movement and quality on the ball. Having that ability in the full back areas is the tipping point for us when it comes to breaking down 'park the bus' sides, you can mark our front players but it's almost impossible to stop fullbacks making those diagonal runs in behind, especially when you have a player like Fabinho who is so effective at picking them out. Sessegnon has that quality and attacking instinct to do it on the left, not sure who would be a similar option on the right (I don't see Wan-Bisakka being that player, or that attainable).
I wish Liverpool had a left footed and an injury-resistant version of Gomez, too, but I think that team's best performances had both Robertson and TAA on top of their game. It's just something that sits well with Klopp and since his team doesn't have a natural playmaker, fullbacks seem vital when it comes to the attacking third. Funnily enough, watching Man City annihilating teams over past few weeks, I got the impression that their fullbacks are sitting deeper than before (though Laporte has often been playing at left back), with Silva and De Bruyne providing passes for runs of their wingers, rather than fullbacks.

To be honest, when it comes to the backup right back position, I hope Camacho extends his contract and gets a promotion. He may not see himself as a fullback but I think he has all the makings of a rather good one, energetic, forward thinking, "modern", in one word. Maybe Sessegnon thinks something along those lines, maybe he sees himself further forward but I wouldn't mind having him regardless of where Klopp thinks he should play. I admire Milner and Fabinho but the former doesn't have the pace and his legs will start tiring soon, while the latter should be played only in midfield because he is the only midfielder at Liverpool who offers certain qualities that Liverpool haven't had since Hamann - only Fabinho seems to have a much higher ceiling because of his physical advantages.

I am pretty convinced that those seniors we've mentioned will be looking for new clubs where they can play regularly. Knowing Klopp, he will allow them to leave and they will need replacing, even though Matip is the only one who was given serious minutes so far. I'm hoping for another Edwards special, to be honest, I think those players will be in demand.

I keep seeing people mention the Ings money being treated as earned already - but isnt he on loan with an option? Does Southampton have any say in whether that option gets taken up? Those players you've listed above should net us around £60m i guess, plus the regular £30-40m that seems to be there should see about £100m without overstretching.

It will be interesting to see how much money the new contracts are taking up out of available funds. A genuine league title challenge and another good run in the CL with increased merchandising (saw recent article on the club store having to re-order more shirts as they couldnt keep up with demand) should give us a hefty wadge of cash but those contract extensions wont have come cheaply.

If Matip or Lovren leaves i dont see us getting much cash coming in as they will be on massive wages. How likely is it that Karius will get a permanent move this summer?
I think Southampton agreed to pay that money at the end of the season regardless of their Premier League status. Something similar was arranged for Karius, only it was a two-year loan and he has to play a certain amount of games (more than a half, I think).

New contracts have taken up a lot of the budget, though, but with the record revenues, I think there's space for Klopp and Edwards to manoeuvre in the market, especially if these outgoing players manage to raise decent transfer fees. Not having the likes of Marković, Moreno and Sturridge on the wage bill will certainly help, too.
 

Perth Red

Rolling with crocs in Darwin
Joined
Aug 30, 2010
Messages
445
Migs will stay, he earns too much to go anywhere else!
Chances of another CB... about 0% unless one leaves, IMO. Phillips and that Hoever kid need opportunity to step up (Cup games).
Left Back - big hole needs filling, back up/competition for Robbo.
Right Back - Camacho could become a star, I reckon. Cups, home games against "lesser" teams etc.. He is quick, attack minded and improving on his defensive skills all the time.
Midfield has an abundance... probably too much competition for Lallana to be kept.
Up top - Origi not good enough, Sturridge too frail, Brewster young and been out for most of his life, Wilson on the cusp. I think we need a rotation option here for the left side and the rest will be enough.

So a left back and a left forward... done!

$20m for Ings plus anything we can get for Lallana, Sturridge, Origi, Clyne... should be enough for a zero net spend so we can't be accused of "buying the title" next year!
 

GermanRed

from doubters to believers to sky-high achievers
Joined
Jan 26, 2017
Messages
3,710
Timo Werner - CF/LW

Christian Eriksen
Finally someone who deserves to be called a playmaker. Vision, passing, creating, shooting, assisting, dictating the tempo, link between midfield and attack, knows the PL, one year left on his contract. I think there can't be said anything negative about him. Not many players could take our midfield to another level like he would. Lallana and Milner out, another loan for Grujic and we should be able to bring another midfielder.

Nathan Aké - CB/LB
Keep Matip and Lovren.