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Who would you buy?

Nikola

"Oh, history writer, don't close the pages yet!"
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Is Kovac going to be around long enough ? Apparently, the players were not to happy with his tactics against Liverpool. There were some rumours of discontent earlier in the season too.
He'll win the title with Bayern this season with a strong but an ageing squad. They have to cut him some slack if they are to be perceived as a club with clear strategy.

Ings left. Solanke left. Sturridge will leave. Origi will be looking for a move for the third consecutive transfer window. No way will Brewster - who never played for the first team on competitive level and was out injured for one year - be our only backup CF.

Klopp said in summer 2017 that he won’t sell Sturridge because it would be too expensive to replace him. This summer he will be forced to replace him and money shouldn’t be a problem now.
I said on multiple occasions that my belief is that Klopp will get a forward of some sort, with Brewster being another option, maybe even for wide positions. Jović, as much as I admire his talent and genuinely wish him all the best in the world (aside from when he play against Liverpool), doesn't strike me as Klopp's type of player, mainly because he's not the versatile type. Then again, Aguero isn't either and I doubt Klopp wouldn't want him but perhaps I'm just used to Firmino's boundless movement and teamwork, something that not many strikers possess today. Jović doesn't and I doubt he'd move to a club where he would sit on the bench and I doubt Klopp would pay 50 million euros for a kid who would block another kid's path to first team.
 
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No-one knows if Adam Lewis is ready (or Camacho for that matter) except Klopp and his coaches. All we know is that he is highly rated, has just been given a new contract, and there is no real link to any new full-back knocking about. We also know that Klopp and the club won’t spend money on players to put in the way of promising youngsters.

I wonder if Milner will be cajoled into another year (I know Father Time, but he is one of the fittest lads in the squad) to give Lewis a more gentle pathway, and not leave us so reliant on an unproven youngster. That would be ideal, although it’s understandable if Leeds do come up he might want to go. He might also want another season challenging titles and European Cups.

Personally I think we’ll be a little frustrated at what little business we end up doing. I think the only absolute certainties are a back up keeper and a creative midfielder. As much as we might feel we need forwards, full backs, Centre backs etc, I don’t think it’s a guarantee that Klopp will want to do much.

Personally, I would love to see another centre back to replace Matip and Lovren, but Klopp might be happy with the quality, and Matip has certainly done well over the last few months, both in terms of performance and avoiding injury.

I’d also love to see another forward at the level of the first choice three, but Klopp might look at Origi’s encouraging performances and the return of Brewster, and conclude that we’re fine.
Origi is nowhere near good enough and Brewster is nowhere near developed enough yet to be relied upon as a backup forward. The amount of game time Sturridge has been given under Klopp even though he has been poor by his own standards suggests we need a key striker. Solanke was bought for this reason also. We need a true striker in my view that can bring something slightly different to Firmino. Werner is high on my list just because of his work rate.
 

Mascot88

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Origi is nowhere near good enough and Brewster is nowhere near developed enough yet to be relied upon as a backup forward. The amount of game time Sturridge has been given under Klopp even though he has been poor by his own standards suggests we need a key striker. Solanke was bought for this reason also. We need a true striker in my view that can bring something slightly different to Firmino. Werner is high on my list just because of his work rate.
I refer you back to the first thing I said about Lewis. Klopp and his staff are the only ones who know who’s ready. Brewster was given first team assurances and the club rate him very highly. Would not be in the least bit surprised if he effectively replaces Sturridge.
 

Semmy

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Ok,but you know what i was getting at.We had that player and after selling him we improved our defense which would now make that type of play hugely successful in our current squad.

I think i've just reiterated what you origionally said. lol
Mane > Coutinho

Can’t have both on pitch at same time
 

GermanRed

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Jović, as much as I admire his talent and genuinely wish him all the best in the world (aside from when he play against Liverpool), doesn't strike me as Klopp's type of player, mainly because he's not the versatile type. Then again, Aguero isn't either and I doubt Klopp wouldn't want him but perhaps I'm just used to Firmino's boundless movement and teamwork, something that not many strikers possess today. Jović doesn't and I doubt he'd move to a club where he would sit on the bench and I doubt Klopp would pay 50 million euros for a kid who would block another kid's path to first team.
Versatility is a nice thing but i don't think it is a main criteria for a Klopp type of player. Jovic is fast enough to play also on the wing and according to Transfermarkt he can play winger. More importantly - he has the right intensity in his game, he is mobile and he has the work rate to play under Klopp.

--------Jovic--------
Mané Firmino Salah

Why would he sit on bench?
 

JustHitMyHead

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Versatility is a nice thing but i don't think it is a main criteria for a Klopp type of player. Jovic is fast enough to play also on the wing and according to Transfermarkt he can play winger. More importantly - he has the right intensity in his game, he is mobile and he has the work rate to play under Klopp.

--------Jovic--------
Mané Firmino Salah

Why would he sit on bench?
Agreed... but I don't know if I have ever seen Jovic play on the wing. But again... why would you play him on the wing? He is prolific as a striker and Mane, Firmino, Salah AND Brewster are all versatile enough to accommodate him. So I don't think he will be blocking anyone.

I don't think I've seen Lewandowski play any position except as a striker as well and that is who Jovic is frequently compared to by the media. Moving Firmino a bit deeper would also help with the lack of creativity and goals from our midfield. But I still think we need someone who can also score from outside the box.
 

Quicksand

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As a back up, or even Plan B, Mitrovic is versatile and puts in a shift. He isnt up to the standard of the front 3 but is a decent alternative. He wont stay at Fulham if they go down. He is an upgrade on Sturridge in his current lazy version and Origi who flatters to deceive at times.
 
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It's about time. If you dont have the means to bend the rules and spend whatever you like, then it takes time to catch up. And requires trade offs. You cant simply buy every player you want in every position.



Who said anything about not backing it up with improvements? Being able to play the same kind of football when Trent or Robertson arent available, or being able to rest Salah, Mane or Bobby would be a significant improvement. Just imagine having a player like Salah run at you for 65 minutes and Mane for the last 30?



Not necessarily. GK and CB were our two longest standing weaknesses and the two candidates we signed were excellent candidates in a market of not much quality. We are much stronger in our other positions in the first 11. In addition, previous heavy spending has come from the sale of an important player, or from focusing the money on just a couple f players. without any additional monies means that any decision to spend equally big this season, will mean we cant add depth where it is really needed - up front and at full back. When we have midfielders missing, our quality doesnt drop off anywhere near as much as it does when our full backs or forwards are missing.



No one has said anything about not being able to improve the squad. People are disagreeing over your view that we need to bin the midfield, and spend big doing so at the expense of other parts of the squad.
Where was the money coming from for Fekir then? Almost signed so we clearly could afford him. And all before financial details of previous year came out. We could earn more this season than last barring Coutinho money if we actually win the league or Champions league. But even if not we will still be earning big due to new sponsorship deals and bigger tv rights and
I refer you back to the first thing I said about Lewis. Klopp and his staff are the only ones who know who’s ready. Brewster was given first team assurances and the club rate him very highly. Would not be in the least bit surprised if he effectively replaces Sturridge.
Woodburn got those assurances also pal so they are not worth the dodgy rumour they are placed on. Klopp has time and time again given young players time in the first team but they rarely get game time needed to develop. Perhaps it is a mental thing klopp tries to improve in them and being around the first team and learning helps that side of things.

But if you think Brewster is good enough to replace the gap Sturridge leaves then you are on something. Sturridge even as poor as he is nowadays is still light years ahead of Brewster in terms of skill ability power and football intelligence. And the point of replacing Sturridge is to get a player of the ability or better than Sturridge showed when Suarez was here.

Brewster clearly has a future and maybe kept among the first team but he will not be relied upon and used regular. Trent only got his break due to injury of Clyne and no alternative so do not make the mistake of believing it is easy to break into the first team for any youth player nowadays.It is why Salah was bought and we did not trust in Wilson or Kent. It is why Ox was bought instead of trusting in Woodburn. It is why Fabinho was bought instead of trusting in Grujic.

The better we become as a side the less likely it is a youth prospect breaks through because the call for more and more world class players becomes 10 fold.

Loaning out to develop them is the only way and if they show good enough form to be a player we would look at if not already on our books then they will get their chance but if stay among our first team they would have to show something special in training to warrant starting and that is very unlikely.
 

Scott Jones

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Replacing Sturridge is replacing someone who's on the bench so no need for a top top player to replace him and he's hardly light years ahead of Brewster unless you're talking age.
 

Mascot88

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Woodburn got those assurances also pal so they are not worth the dodgy rumour they are placed on.
But different. Brewster was on the point of leaving, before he signed a new contract off the back of those assurances. Klopp has made a point of making sure he is considered a first team player whenever the subject comes up.

But if you think Brewster is good enough to replace the gap Sturridge leaves then you are on something.
Two things.
1) My point was not that he is or isn’t good enough, but that these definitive statements on who is or isn’t ready are worthless. Klopp is the judge of that, and if he thinks he is ready he will be trusted. Your opinion, and mine, is based on very little. We’ve seen little of him play, we don’t really know what he is capable of.

My gut feeling is that he will make his debut before the end of the season, and if not he’ll play a big part in pre-season.

2) it would be a good idea to be a bit more respectful of other posters. Saying people with a different opinion to you are ‘on sonething’ is not welcome. Especially sonething as subjective as football players.
 
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GermanRed

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Think the big question is will we bring in one or two attacking minded (#8, AM, Winger, CF...) players in the summer? The current form of Lallana and Origi and the trust they receive could suggest that we might only bring in one player for the final third of the pitch.

On the other hand - if they can keep their form until the end of the season we might get up to 45m for them combined.
 

redfanman

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Think the big question is will we bring in one or two attacking minded (#8, AM, Winger, CF...) players in the summer? The current form of Lallana and Origi and the trust they receive could suggest that we might only bring in one player for the final third of the pitch.

On the other hand - if they can keep their form until the end of the season we might get up to 45m for them combined.
I would be concerned if we only brought one in. I don't see Origi or Shakiri as long term options and we may already be faced with a re haul of our CB and midfield if Milner, Lallana are still here next season.

That's before knowing whether any youngsters can step up next year or a regular player gets an offer that sees him wanting to go.
 

Limiescouse

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My gut feeling is that he will make his debut before the end of the season, and if not he’ll play a big part in pre-season.
I'll be stunned if Brewster gets minutes this season. In part because maybe because of the circumstances, and in part because it just seems far more of an accelerated timeline than Klopp has spoken about.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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I'll be stunned if Brewster gets minutes this season. In part because maybe because of the circumstances, and in part because it just seems far more of an accelerated timeline than Klopp has spoken about.
Last game of the season, we're four points clear at the top, cruising 5-0 at home to a Wolves side already on the beach... it could happen ;-)
 

GermanRed

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I would be concerned if we only brought one in. I don't see Origi or Shakiri as long term options and we may already be faced with a re haul of our CB and midfield if Milner, Lallana are still here next season.

That's before knowing whether any youngsters can step up next year or a regular player gets an offer that sees him wanting to go.
Agree with you. Sell Lallana and Origi for combined +₤40m and bring in Brandt (release clause ₤20m) and Jovic for example for around ₤70m combined and we'll have an attack that can win all 4 trophies in a season.
 

Nikola

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Versatility is a nice thing but i don't think it is a main criteria for a Klopp type of player. Jovic is fast enough to play also on the wing and according to Transfermarkt he can play winger. More importantly - he has the right intensity in his game, he is mobile and he has the work rate to play under Klopp.

--------Jovic--------
Mané Firmino Salah

Why would he sit on bench?
Because of Keita and Oxlade-Chamberlain? Klopp will give them every chance to prove their fitness and quality. After all, he's invested about 90 million pounds in them in transfer fees alone.
 

GermanRed

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Because of Keita and Oxlade-Chamberlain? Klopp will give them every chance to prove their fitness and quality. After all, he's invested about 90 million pounds in them in transfer fees alone.
-------Jovic--------
Mané Firmino Salah
Wijnaldum Fabinho

That was our lineup on Saturday against Spurs.

Three days later against Dortmund we start with

Mané Firmino Salah
Keita Fabinho Ox

:well done:
 

lfc.eddie

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Food for thought for the likes of Werner and Brandt.. Why would you go Bayern, they are in need of a serious overhaul in all areas.
You’ve just made a compelling reason for them to be there as opposed to coming over to warm our bench.
 

ubermick

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You’ve just made a compelling reason for them to be there as opposed to coming over to warm our bench.
You're assuming that's what they'd be doing. Given Salah (and Firmino's) current lack of form in front of goal, wouldn't it be a bit nice to be able to take them out of the firing line for a match or two and have someone of similar quality come in for a bit to share the load, as opposed to the cliff drop we see going from them to the likes of Origi or Sturridge?

Similarly, it'd probably be motivational for our front three to know that their place on the pitch isn't absolutely completely nailed on guaranteed as it is now, and have a bit of competition on their hands.
 

redfanman

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Maybe not a "likely" purchase but seems Griezmann is available for around £100 million tops this summer and no longer happy at Atletico. As an incredible option at LF and CF in 433 or SS and CF in 4231 he'd be so perfect for us even at 28.
Doesnt surprise me, their team is ageing quite a bit now and has been in need of a rebuild for a little while. It would be interesting to see if they also lose their manager in this summer's merry go round.
 

Limiescouse

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Doesnt surprise me, their team is ageing quite a bit now and has been in need of a rebuild for a little while. It would be interesting to see if they also lose their manager in this summer's merry go round.
He recently committed long term to them. But then so did Griezmann in the summer as well.
 



redfanman

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Where was the money coming from for Fekir then? Almost signed so we clearly could afford him. And all before financial details of previous year came out. We could earn more this season than last barring Coutinho money if we actually win the league or Champions league. But even if not we will still be earning big due to new sponsorship deals and bigger tv rights and......
I'm not sure i fully understand your point here but that may be because it appears to have been cut off when you were writing it.

The Fekir money came from whatever money the club had remaining after it's other expenditures were taken care of. Much of our spending during Klopp's time here has come from selling players and i expect that will be the case for future purchases too. Some money appears to have been budgeted for Fekir and not spent - hence why in my earlier post to you i included it in my breakdown of why i think there may be about £150m available for spending before any further sales are made.

Increased revenues from improved commercial deals are unlikely to boost transfer funds for another year or two at least. Most if not all the money from last year's Champion's league run has already been spent and revenues from this year's Champion's League income probably wont be as much given the presence of the other english clubs splitting some of the country specific shared revenues. We've also substantially increased the wages of several of our first team players in addition to paying off loans on the new stand and the training ground.

And let me just say if Moreno Sturridge Milner Lovren and Lallana were to go this next window that is close to 600k a wk in wages saved so tell me why it is hard to see maybe 2 players of 200k a wk standard coming in and the others on 100k. Rabiot is on a free if we get him so Milners wage would cover him bar bonuses. This is why clearing players on big wages that can be improved upon is the first process.
Because thats not how transfers work in the real world?

First incoming players will usually expect a healthy signing on fee, not just a wage - we paid Milner for example i think between £8m and £12m. Rabiot has reportedly been looking for about £10m in addition to a wage of about £175k. Then there are agents fees. And he is a 'free' transfer. Few players of the quality you are looking for are going to be available on a free.

Second, i dont think the wages you would save adds up to £600k a week. Moreno was never on anything close to £100k a week, Studge's wages would have fallen in the last year of his, Lovren and Lallana's would be about £100k each and probably heavily incentivised - since they havent been playing regularly we wont be paying them the full whack and Lovren will be entering the last year of his contract next season i think. Milner maybe earning the most - £150k perhaps.

Third , if you are moving multiple players out to create funds for buying a fewer number of players you are reducing the depth of the squad at a time when we need an increase in the quality of that depth. Milner alone covers 4 or 5 positions (and is one of the reasons i dont agree that you can simply swap Rabiot for him). Selling Lovren requires us to bring in at least 1 new CB and there is already an argument that we should have 5 CBs rather than the 4 plus Fabinho emergency option because of fitness concerns over Gomez and Matip.

Fourth, unless you are able and willing to offload players such as Wilson, Awonyi, Grujic who are not currently in our first team squad, or youngsters in the first team squad who never play for us for significant sums of money that can cover the cost of a top player it's going to add to our depth issues, not resolve them because each player like Lovren you are selling is probably not going to generate the sums you need to replace them and given their wages are still much higher than a lot of those interested in buying them would pay, we may have to sweeten the deal either with a wage contribution, 'loyalty bonus' or accepting a lower fee.

Finally, you are sending out a message different to what Klopp is trying to cultivate. He isnt going to go out and replace Wijnaldum or Gomez in the first team after the seasons they have had unless it is for another player already in the squad who has had an even better one. To get players loyalty and willingness to run themselves into the ground for the team's cause, you dont simply bin them off to bring in a shiny new player.

Saying all the above - i am not averse to selling Lovren and/or Lallana. I just think it unlikely that even if we do we can go gung ho in the transfer window on so few players. Our current first team squad has 29 players, but 8 havent played in the league this year - 2 keepers and 6 young outfielders. 2 seniors leaving on a free in the summer leaving us with only 19 players, 5 or 6 of whom have questions about their long term fitness. Obviously, if those on loan, or too young to feature this season may be good enough to take up a spot next season on ability then we may not have a problem - but i personally wouldnt want to risk it.
 
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Replacing Sturridge is replacing someone who's on the bench so no need for a top top player to replace him and he's hardly light years ahead of Brewster unless you're talking age.
So your idea to build a better team is to get rid of players who are only bench warmers because they are not good enough and replace them with players that are not that good? Thank god your not in charge.

To build a squad you get rid of the dead wood and replace it with far better than what you have or at the very least equal quality to your best that way those extra quality players you just buy push others who are good solid squad members into backup.Thus improving the starting 11 and the bench with one replacement of a player.

If Jota or Werner is bought that improves our starting 11 especially if Firmino is then used alternatively to our new striker or even if he is then used behind the striker as a 10. Because to use both would mean likes of Winjaldum or Ox are on our bench more meaning a far better bench than having the choice of only Henderson on it.

Better players push regular starters to the bench making the starting 11 better and the bench this is how you improve a squad.
 

ILLOK

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Jota and Werner aren't pushing anybody to our bench, they'd be taking the spot themselves. If we're going to change formation to accommodate players it should be the likes of Griezmann as posted earlier, not players of lesser quality than what is currently in our first 11. I'd take Naby, Gini or Chamberlain and the 433 any day.
 

Scott Jones

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So your idea to build a better team is to get rid of players who are only bench warmers because they are not good enough and replace them with players that are not that good? Thank god your not in charge.

To build a squad you get rid of the dead wood and replace it with far better than what you have or at the very least equal quality to your best that way those extra quality players you just buy push others who are good solid squad members into backup.Thus improving the starting 11 and the bench with one replacement of a player.

If Jota or Werner is bought that improves our starting 11 especially if Firmino is then used alternatively to our new striker or even if he is then used behind the striker as a 10. Because to use both would mean likes of Winjaldum or Ox are on our bench more meaning a far better bench than having the choice of only Henderson on it.

Better players push regular starters to the bench making the starting 11 better and the bench this is how you improve a squad.
Not a top top player doesn't mean not that good,Mane wasn't a top top player,or Salah,or Robertson,you see you don't to spunk money everywhere.
 
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I'm not sure i fully understand your point here but that may be because it appears to have been cut off when you were writing it.

The Fekir money came from whatever money the club had remaining after it's other expenditures were taken care of. Much of our spending during Klopp's time here has come from selling players and i expect that will be the case for future purchases too. Some money appears to have been budgeted for Fekir and not spent - hence why in my earlier post to you i included it in my breakdown of why i think there may be about £150m available for spending before any further sales are made.

Increased revenues from improved commercial deals are unlikely to boost transfer funds for another year or two at least. Most if not all the money from last year's Champion's league run has already been spent and revenues from this year's Champion's League income probably wont be as much given the presence of the other english clubs splitting some of the country specific shared revenues. We've also substantially increased the wages of several of our first team players in addition to paying off loans on the new stand and the training ground.



Because thats not how transfers work in the real world?

First incoming players will usually expect a healthy signing on fee, not just a wage - we paid Milner for example i think between £8m and £12m. Rabiot has reportedly been looking for about £10m in addition to a wage of about £175k. Then there are agents fees. And he is a 'free' transfer. Few players of the quality you are looking for are going to be available on a free.

Second, i dont think the wages you would save adds up to £600k a week. Moreno was never on anything close to £100k a week, Studge's wages would have fallen in the last year of his, Lovren and Lallana's would be about £100k each and probably heavily incentivised - since they havent been playing regularly we wont be paying them the full whack and Lovren will be entering the last year of his contract next season i think. Milner maybe earning the most - £150k perhaps.

Third , if you are moving multiple players out to create funds for buying a fewer number of players you are reducing the depth of the squad at a time when we need an increase in the quality of that depth. Milner alone covers 4 or 5 positions (and is one of the reasons i dont agree that you can simply swap Rabiot for him). Selling Lovren requires us to bring in at least 1 new CB and there is already an argument that we should have 5 CBs rather than the 4 plus Fabinho emergency option because of fitness concerns over Gomez and Matip.

Fourth, unless you are able and willing to offload players such as Wilson, Awonyi, Grujic who are not currently in our first team squad, or youngsters in the first team squad who never play for us for significant sums of money that can cover the cost of a top player it's going to add to our depth issues, not resolve them because each player like Lovren you are selling is probably not going to generate the sums you need to replace them and given their wages are still much higher than a lot of those interested in buying them would pay, we may have to sweeten the deal either with a wage contribution, 'loyalty bonus' or accepting a lower fee.

Finally, you are sending out a message different to what Klopp is trying to cultivate. He isnt going to go out and replace Wijnaldum or Gomez in the first team after the seasons they have had unless it is for another player already in the squad who has had an even better one. To get players loyalty and willingness to run themselves into the ground for the team's cause, you dont simply bin them off to bring in a shiny new player.

Saying all the above - i am not averse to selling Lovren and/or Lallana. I just think it unlikely that even if we do we can go gung ho in the transfer window on so few players. Our current first team squad has 29 players, but 8 havent played in the league this year - 2 keepers and 6 young outfielders. 2 seniors leaving on a free in the summer leaving us with only 19 players, 5 or 6 of whom have questions about their long term fitness. Obviously, if those on loan, or too young to feature this season may be good enough to take up a spot next season on ability then we may not have a problem - but i personally wouldnt want to risk it.
If a CB was bought to replace Lovren and he could play LB RB and CB tgen that covers part of Milners appeal and Fabinho covers the other parts already as he xan play CB or RB besides CM and DM so using Milner's positional versatility is mad. Yes he is great but he is 33yrs old and not getting any younger.

The fact he is on around 140k a wk is exactly why Rabiot is ideal even with the sweetners and fees where else are you going to find a 23yr old of that quality and only pay around 12 mil? as for my sums not adding to around 600k a wk wages saved milner 140k Lovren and Lallana 100k and 110k Moreno 65k Sturridge 130k Origi 45k all adds up to around 590k a wk if all those are off our books.