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Who would you buy?



BigJon

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Apr 12, 2018
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I would like to see Zaha from Crystal Palace come in. He is not the finished article but with Klopps coaching I think he could be world class. Same age as Mane, proven in the PL and a versatile option.
 

red arizona scott

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I didn't think wrongfellow was all that over the top and had some points, but the moderator suggestions were reasonable. Hopefully that works out.

The starting 11 really doesn't have the glaring weaknesses before VVD and Alisson arrivals. I think Gomez was terrific at CB at the start of the season--one of the better U22 CBs in the world. Can also provide cover at RB. Matip and Lovren don't suck, and even Fabinho can be cover as well. And then Millie for either side. All in all I say stand pat at the backline unless there are cheap young flyers--I certainly don't see a need for a major investment.

An attacking mid and cover for the forward trio, yes we could use. Ideal would be someone like Werner, but will he come to be the 4th forward (sub in the big games barring injury and otherwise a rotation starter) for quite a few years? Sebastian Haller could be someone like this too, but again has to want to have a smaller role on a elite club vs the regular starter on a solid top flight club but not one competing for trophies. I think Jovic's aspirations are higher and with Suarez's age I think it is would easier for him to see to sooner path to being a regular at Barca, or if at PSG, or Bayern. However there is some talk of Bayern going for Pepe (Lille) over these two, so maybe these Bundesilga players would be available. One final thought if none of these are viable, how about Giroud? He is good playing with other great players (see France) and on a free--if he wants to go for trophies and accept that bench role I think he would be better than Origi or Strurride, otherwise we are back with keeping Origi and then maybe seeing if Brewster can play in the EPL--but this we really have no idea if Brewster will be an EPL level player. Hopeful, flyer, but still nothing more at this point.

In terms of attacking mids to perhaps help unlock the bus (and maybe alternate forward cover too), that gets us back to Fekir or maybe a Coutinho return (he just doesn't fit with a team centered around Messi). Maybe T. Hazard. It would take this kind of player to possible add dynamism that might be a level above the selections from Gini/Fabinho/Hendo/Kieta/Milner/Ox options (even Grujic a possibility). I don't see a reason to sell Lallana unless he wants to go, he wouldn't fetch much and seem to be a fine lockeroom/ cup playing guy. So really up to him. Milner I want to resign for the cover he provides.

So overall I think it will be really hard to improve the starting 11. But getting better in back up forward or a more creative more forward midfielder in the mix, much more attainable. Back up LB possibly, but I wouldn't want to spend much on that. Just another low cost flyer there, if that.
 



RedForever2014

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Two things.

1. It is a change of tack. We have operated under a policy of spending money only when it is necessary to do so, and setting an incredibly high bar (in terms of player suitability) before spending anything. You are advocating spending money for the sake of spending money. By making the objective ‘spend more money’ you’re ignoring small matters like ‘does the manager want/need more money’ and ‘is there someone available it would be worth spending money on’.

2. I don’t understand how you can use the success of Klopp to advocate spending more money, when the man himself has said he views the market as a last resort and prefers to explore in-house solutions before going there. If you respect Klopp, respect his methods and stop going on about money :tongue:
No I didn't advocate spending money for the sake of spending money.

I said that there are clearly things to do that can't be solved by keeping players we currently have (Moreno, Origi, Sturridge) or promoting youngsters.

Not spending money is not proof that Klopp doesn't want better options than he has - or would have if we keep players or just use youth - in certain areas, it's just proof that he is prepared to work with the available resources because he's that type of guy.

A club of LFC's size, having spent £85m net in three years, should be looking to buy 3 or 4 quality players to kick on to the next level. If it chooses not to then that's the club's choice.

Yes in time the youngsters might become as good as anyone we can buy, but if we're talking about being as competitive as we can be next season, we'd be acquiring quality players.
 



Mascot88

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No I didn't advocate spending money for the sake of spending money.
Well, you sort of are.

You keep saying that we should spend more, and your sole justification for this is your own fag packet maths on what you think we can spend (which is undoubtedly oversimplified) based on our income.

The extension of this logic is that had we paid what players are actually worth, rather pulling off a series of absolute fucking blinders in the market and academy you’d be content. As long as we’re spending every penny on the squad you’re cool.

There is clearly a frugality about the club, but that’s not the same as tight-fistedness. They will spend big on the right player, Alisson and Van Dijk are testament to that - but it needs to becthe right player.

We’ve been through periods where the club have emptied the coffers every year to get in bodies, and it never ends well. I’m glad they are willing to hold their nerve.

Not spending money is not proof that Klopp doesn't want better options than he has - or would have if we keep players or just use youth - in certain areas, it's just proof that he is prepared to work with the available resources because he's that type of guy.
Apart from him saying, on multiple occasions, that it baffles him that the fans and media focus so much on money, that he prefers to find solutions from inside the club, and if he could spend oligarch money it wouldn’t be any fun to him.

I think we can be certain at this point how Klopp feels about things. He has absolute security in his job, he is adored by the fans, loved in the media, and there would be a revolt if the owners threatened him. If he wasn’t happy, he has the power to make that known.

We know of (I think) two situations where he personally has pulled the plug because he felt a player wasn’t right in terms of mentality or motivation.

I think it’s a safe assumption that when he says he prefers to work on the training pitch and look for solutions from the resources already at his disposal, he actually means it.

A club of LFC's size, having spent £85m net in three years, should be looking to buy 3 or 4 quality players to kick on to the next level. If it chooses not to then that's the club's choice.
Where are you getting them from? Asda?

This is the Dunning-Kruger effect in full flow. You presume this is a piss of piss. Just go and buy 3-4 quality players, lads. It’s that simple.

Well, it’s not.

Firstly this might be the best squad in the country (we’ll see over the next seven games) and regardless of whether we finish top or second it will still likely have delivered one of the best league campaigns in top flight history. The pool of players out there that can improve this squad is small. And it’s gets smaller still, when you take out the ones already at top clubs who won’t sell, the ones that don’t want to come etc.

And then, the club policy is to go very deep on their analysis of the suitability of a player - not just his playing stats, but his personality, his motivations, his character, and his mentality. They are thorough - and that’s how they have had such success. They don’t panic buy. They don’t shit the bed. Fekir fails his medical? They don’t go to the second option, they wait for the right player to be available.

Everton have it easy. They are shite, and there are shitloads of players around better than they’ve got. But a lad who is at the level of Sadio Mane or Mo Salah, who is happy to play in rotation, not motivated by money, and won’t rock the boat if he’s on the bench for a key game? That’s quite a bit harder.
 
Last edited:

Zinedine Biscan

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Hi pals, that was Dave Almighty with 19th Nervous Breakdown. I think I preferred the Rolling Stones version but I'm quite literally too scared to say anything he'd disagree with, and I hear he does a lot of work for charidee.
Ha, no, that wasn't Dave. I've known Dave a long time and that wasn't his style. He won't be back.
 

Limiescouse

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There is clearly a frugality about the club, but that’s not the same as tight-fistedness. They will spend big on the right player, Alisson and Van Dijk are testament to that - but it needs to becthe right player.
Also note that while they look cheap now, and appear like brilliant signings, a significant portion of the fan base thought we were significantly over paying for both Mane and Salah.

Ha, no, that wasn't Dave. I've known Dave a long time and that wasn't his style. He won't be back.
Yeah, too sane to have been Dave. There is a big part of me that still thinks that despite the denials Dave was Sabu.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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Also note that while they look cheap now, and appear like brilliant signings, a significant portion of the fan base thought we were significantly over paying for both Mane and Salah.


Yeah, too sane to have been Dave. There is a big part of me that still thinks that despite the denials Dave was Sabu.
Well, he was obviously traumatised by his experience in the Big Brother house.
 

RedForever2014

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Well, you sort of are.

You keep saying that we should spend more, and your sole justification for this is your own fag packet maths on what you think we can spend (which is undoubtedly oversimplified) based on our income.

The extension of this logic is that had we paid what players are actually worth, rather pulling off a series of absolute fucking blinders in the market and academy you’d be content. As long as we’re spending every penny on the squad you’re cool.

There is clearly a frugality about the club, but that’s not the same as tight-fistedness. They will spend big on the right player, Alisson and Van Dijk are testament to that - but it needs to becthe right player.

We’ve been through periods where the club have emptied the coffers every year to get in bodies, and it never ends well. I’m glad they are willing to hold their nerve.



Apart from him saying, on multiple occasions, that it baffles him that the fans and media focus so much on money, that he prefers to find solutions from inside the club, and if he could spend oligarch money it wouldn’t be any fun to him.

I think we can be certain at this point how Klopp feels about things. He has absolute security in his job, he is adored by the fans, loved in the media, and there would be a revolt if the owners threatened him. If he wasn’t happy, he has the power to make that known.

We know of (I think) two situations where he personally has pulled the plug because he felt a player wasn’t right in terms of mentality or motivation.

I think it’s a safe assumption that when he says he prefers to work on the training pitch and look for solutions from the resources already at his disposal, he actually means it.



Where are you getting them from? Asda?

This is the Dunning-Kruger effect in full flow. You presume this is a piss of piss. Just go and buy 3-4 quality players, lads. It’s that simple.

Well, it’s not.

Firstly this might be the best squad in the country (we’ll see over the next seven games) and regardless of whether we finish top or second it will still likely have delivered one of the best league campaigns in top flight history. The pool of players out there that can improve this squad is small. And it’s gets smaller still, when you take out the ones already at top clubs who won’t sell, the ones that don’t want to come etc.

And then, the club policy is to go very deep on their analysis of the suitability of a player - not just his playing stats, but his personality, his motivations, his character, and his mentality. They are thorough - and that’s how they have had such success. They don’t panic buy. They don’t shit the bed. Fekir fails his medical? They don’t go to the second option, they wait for the right player to be available.

Everton have it easy. They are shite, and there are shitloads of players around better than they’ve got. But a lad who is at the level of Sadio Mane or Mo Salah, who is happy to play in rotation, not motivated by money, and won’t rock the boat if he’s on the bench for a key game? That’s quite a bit harder.
There are about 2500 footballers playing in the six top leagues in Europe. If Edwards and co can't find 3 or 4 who fit your profile, and are available at the right price, then they are not as good as you suggest they are.

You make many valid points, but what you fail to see is that what is required are not just the right purchases on a case by case basis, but enough of them during a certain time frame to create a team and squad that can win things consistently.

There are many analogies one could use from the business world in relation to this, but in essence the point is that if the objective is merely to acquire assets who will appreciate in value, focussing solely on sure things and low hanging fruit, then at some level our competitiveness will be compromised.
 



Mascot88

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There are about 2500 footballers playing in the six top leagues in Europe. If Edwards and co can't find 3 or 4 who fit your profile, and are available at the right price, then they are not as good as you suggest they are.
I’m sure they can identify more than that, but that really is just the start.

Do they want to come here? Would their clubs release them? What are their motivations? If they really are top class, what kind of status in the squad do they want? What is their agent like? Is there someone better we could wait for?

You make many valid points, but what you fail to see is that what is required are not just the right purchases on a case by case basis, but enough of them during a certain time frame to create a team and squad that can win things consistently.

There are many analogies one could use from the business world in relation to this, but in essence the point is that if the objective is merely to acquire assets who will appreciate in value, focussing solely on sure things and low hanging fruit, then at some level our competitiveness will be compromised.
Don’t you think this is a strange time to be questioning the club’s desire to be competitive? We’re top of the league and a safe bet for the last four out the champions league. What more would you want at this stage?

The fantastic position we are in is precisely because we have a manager and recruitment that is diligent in how they spend the team’s money.

Paul Tompkins used to do a thing about how 50% of transfer spending is wasted, such is the high risk nature of any transfer. He did this as a means of defending Rafa against his detractors, but I always used to think why don’t we just try to be a bit more careful? Recruit to a plan. Go a lot deeper into character and mentality etc. Try and get that success rate up to 75%. Or 85% even. That’s where the club is now, and that work is allowing us to go toe to toe with clubs like City and Chelsea for lads like Van Dijk and Alisson Becker.

The squad obviously needs continual improvement. But the transfer market is not the only way to do this. Gini Wijnaldum is an example of this. Last season he was pretty high on the clear out lists of many fans. The usual fantasy football bollocks of bringing in ten new players every year had Gini out the door in many cases. But Klopp doesn’t work like this, and instead worked with him and coached him, and he is now the first midfielder on the team sheet in the eyes of many fans. That’s another perfectly legitimate way to improve a team. There will be other players that Klopp can do this work with.

It isn’t all about spending money. For Klopp its about making the most of what we’ve got, using the academy, improving players and finding creative solutions, so that when we do have the chance to sign a world class talent, we don’t end up trying to haggle over a few million quid and missing out, like we used to with Rafa and Parry.
 

RedForever2014

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I’m sure they can identify more than that, but that really is just the start.

Do they want to come here? Would their clubs release them? What are their motivations? If they really are top class, what kind of status in the squad do they want? What is their agent like? Is there someone better we could wait for?



Don’t you think this is a strange time to be questioning the club’s desire to be competitive? We’re top of the league and a safe bet for the last four out the champions league. What more would you want at this stage?

The fantastic position we are in is precisely because we have a manager and recruitment that is diligent in how they spend the team’s money.

Paul Tompkins used to do a thing about how 50% of transfer spending is wasted, such is the high risk nature of any transfer. He did this as a means of defending Rafa against his detractors, but I always used to think why don’t we just try to be a bit more careful? Recruit to a plan. Go a lot deeper into character and mentality etc. Try and get that success rate up to 75%. Or 85% even. That’s where the club is now, and that work is allowing us to go toe to toe with clubs like City and Chelsea for lads like Van Dijk and Alisson Becker.

The squad obviously needs continual improvement. But the transfer market is not the only way to do this. Gini Wijnaldum is an example of this. Last season he was pretty high on the clear out lists of many fans. The usual fantasy football bollocks of bringing in ten new players every year had Gini out the door in many cases. But Klopp doesn’t work like this, and instead worked with him and coached him, and he is now the first midfielder on the team sheet in the eyes of many fans. That’s another perfectly legitimate way to improve a team. There will be other players that Klopp can do this work with.

It isn’t all about spending money. For Klopp its about making the most of what we’ve got, using the academy, improving players and finding creative solutions, so that when we do have the chance to sign a world class talent, we don’t end up trying to haggle over a few million quid and missing out, like we used to with Rafa and Parry.
I don't disagree on many levels, but I think you're too generous in your view of their objectives/motives, too willing to accept the club's stance verbatim, and unwilling to accept that the potential for success is compromised by it.

They want to be competitive, they will take whatever success comes our way, but they have quite a low net spend budget within which this must be achieved, enabling us to be competitive but compromising success.

If we win things this season it will be despite the lack of quality in the squad and because this lack of quality was not exposed because key players didn't get injured. Had we had the injuries City have had, we'd have been well off the pace.

People bang on about playing time, but there is plenty of that for players who are good enough at a club that's successful. In fact, having a few extra top quality players, of whom some would be fielded in cup competitions, would help us go further thus also creating playing time for players further down the squad pecking order.

As I said the other day, what is the point having Moreno here when he will only be picked in an absolute emergency? Ditto Sturridge and others.

I appreciate we are about to have the final clear out of pre Klopp players, but this should be another influx of Klopp players, not just the promotion of untested kids.

Can you not see that not being able to rotate burns players out? TAA is getting more injuries, Robertson is making more mistakes than last season, Bobby is clearly not the player of last season. Clyne played for two years straight under Klopp then had a year out injured. You really want VVD to end up the same?

Anyway this is academic until the summer, because only then will we see what the club does.

For me, we need to sort out the centre back injury prone issue, we have to have full backs who can be rotated (not defensively minded fill ins who can't deliver the same type of attacking play as TAA and Andy), we need a 10 who can unlock teams of all levels and we need a 4th quality forward.

We should do this via 3, 4 or 5 signings, loaning out the likes of Morgan, Grujic, Wilson, Brewster, then integrating proven and blooded youngsters 2 or 3 at a time over a couple of years as senior players move on.
 

SBYM

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Can you not see that not being able to rotate burns players out? TAA is getting more injuries, Robertson is making more mistakes than last season, Bobby is clearly not the player of last season. Clyne played for two years straight under Klopp then had a year out injured. You really want VVD to end up the same?
This is absolute horseshit and based on nothing but your feels and the agenda you push.

I'd challenge you to give us some evidence for your conclusions, which should be easy given you are so certain, however, you know what they say about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results...
 

Alright Now

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This is absolute horseshit and based on nothing but your feels and the agenda you push.

I'd challenge you to give us some evidence of your easily quantifiable observations, but you know what they say about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results...
What do they say? And why do you keep doing this to yourself?
 



SBYM

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And shock horror...

Did you guys know that a player's performance may fluctuate from year to year?? Who knew?

fmd...it's like those guys running around each week are human beings...

Lazy, useless pricks.
 



Mascot88

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I don't disagree on many levels, but I think you're too generous in your view of their objectives/motives, too willing to accept the club's stance verbatim, and unwilling to accept that the potential for success is compromised by it.

They want to be competitive, they will take whatever success comes our way, but they have quite a low net spend budget within which this must be achieved, enabling us to be competitive but compromising success.

If we win things this season it will be despite the lack of quality in the squad and because this lack of quality was not exposed because key players didn't get injured. Had we had the injuries City have had, we'd have been well off the pace.

People bang on about playing time, but there is plenty of that for players who are good enough at a club that's successful. In fact, having a few extra top quality players, of whom some would be fielded in cup competitions, would help us go further thus also creating playing time for players further down the squad pecking order.

As I said the other day, what is the point having Moreno here when he will only be picked in an absolute emergency? Ditto Sturridge and others.

I appreciate we are about to have the final clear out of pre Klopp players, but this should be another influx of Klopp players, not just the promotion of untested kids.

Can you not see that not being able to rotate burns players out? TAA is getting more injuries, Robertson is making more mistakes than last season, Bobby is clearly not the player of last season. Clyne played for two years straight under Klopp then had a year out injured. You really want VVD to end up the same?

Anyway this is academic until the summer, because only then will we see what the club does.

For me, we need to sort out the centre back injury prone issue, we have to have full backs who can be rotated (not defensively minded fill ins who can't deliver the same type of attacking play as TAA and Andy), we need a 10 who can unlock teams of all levels and we need a 4th quality forward.

We should do this via 3, 4 or 5 signings, loaning out the likes of Morgan, Grujic, Wilson, Brewster, then integrating proven and blooded youngsters 2 or 3 at a time over a couple of years as senior players move on.
I won’t continue to go at this, as we’re just going round in circles, but I’d suggest you google the Dunning-Kruger effect.

I’m buckling myself in in readiness for you to back peddle should we win the league or CL this year, with pearls like it was achieved despite FSG, or we got lucky (or my favourite, which you’ve used before) we nearly didn’t win it.
 

RedForever2014

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I won’t continue to go at this, as we’re just going round in circles, but I’d suggest you google the Dunning-Kruger effect.

I’m buckling myself in in readiness for you to back peddle should we win the league or CL this year, with pearls like it was achieved despite FSG, or we got lucky (or my favourite, which you’ve used before) we nearly didn’t win it.
I know all about the Dunning-Kruger effect. You've only got to look at the Labour Party front bench for notable examples.

Why do you think I spend so much time trying to help you overcome it! :)
 

RaoulDuke

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I know all about the Dunning-Kruger effect. You've only got to look at the Labour Party front bench for notable examples.

Why do you think I spend so much time trying to help you overcome it! :)
Wait until the next GE.
I‘m sure you said the same before the last one when Labour was trailing 10%+ in so called polls.
But that‘s for another thread.
 

RedForever2014

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Wait until the next GE.
I‘m sure you said the same before the last one when Labour was trailing 10%+ in so called polls.
But that‘s for another thread.
I have no doubt that this country is thick enough - and bitter enough - to put Corbyn in number 10.

And whilst the high tax regime that would ensue would affect all PL clubs, the resultant outward rush of high earners would certainly dent LFC's future chances of European glory.

I guess the pleasure at seeing middle class wealth taxed away and redistributed to lazy arses would be worth it right?