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Who would you buy?



Mascot88

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I don't disagree on many levels, but I think you're too generous in your view of their objectives/motives, too willing to accept the club's stance verbatim, and unwilling to accept that the potential for success is compromised by it.

They want to be competitive, they will take whatever success comes our way, but they have quite a low net spend budget within which this must be achieved, enabling us to be competitive but compromising success.

If we win things this season it will be despite the lack of quality in the squad and because this lack of quality was not exposed because key players didn't get injured. Had we had the injuries City have had, we'd have been well off the pace.

People bang on about playing time, but there is plenty of that for players who are good enough at a club that's successful. In fact, having a few extra top quality players, of whom some would be fielded in cup competitions, would help us go further thus also creating playing time for players further down the squad pecking order.

As I said the other day, what is the point having Moreno here when he will only be picked in an absolute emergency? Ditto Sturridge and others.

I appreciate we are about to have the final clear out of pre Klopp players, but this should be another influx of Klopp players, not just the promotion of untested kids.

Can you not see that not being able to rotate burns players out? TAA is getting more injuries, Robertson is making more mistakes than last season, Bobby is clearly not the player of last season. Clyne played for two years straight under Klopp then had a year out injured. You really want VVD to end up the same?

Anyway this is academic until the summer, because only then will we see what the club does.

For me, we need to sort out the centre back injury prone issue, we have to have full backs who can be rotated (not defensively minded fill ins who can't deliver the same type of attacking play as TAA and Andy), we need a 10 who can unlock teams of all levels and we need a 4th quality forward.

We should do this via 3, 4 or 5 signings, loaning out the likes of Morgan, Grujic, Wilson, Brewster, then integrating proven and blooded youngsters 2 or 3 at a time over a couple of years as senior players move on.
I won’t continue to go at this, as we’re just going round in circles, but I’d suggest you google the Dunning-Kruger effect.

I’m buckling myself in in readiness for you to back peddle should we win the league or CL this year, with pearls like it was achieved despite FSG, or we got lucky (or my favourite, which you’ve used before) we nearly didn’t win it.
 



RedForever2014

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I won’t continue to go at this, as we’re just going round in circles, but I’d suggest you google the Dunning-Kruger effect.

I’m buckling myself in in readiness for you to back peddle should we win the league or CL this year, with pearls like it was achieved despite FSG, or we got lucky (or my favourite, which you’ve used before) we nearly didn’t win it.
I know all about the Dunning-Kruger effect. You've only got to look at the Labour Party front bench for notable examples.

Why do you think I spend so much time trying to help you overcome it! :)
 

RaoulDuke

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I know all about the Dunning-Kruger effect. You've only got to look at the Labour Party front bench for notable examples.

Why do you think I spend so much time trying to help you overcome it! :)
Wait until the next GE.
I‘m sure you said the same before the last one when Labour was trailing 10%+ in so called polls.
But that‘s for another thread.
 

RedForever2014

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Wait until the next GE.
I‘m sure you said the same before the last one when Labour was trailing 10%+ in so called polls.
But that‘s for another thread.
I have no doubt that this country is thick enough - and bitter enough - to put Corbyn in number 10.

And whilst the high tax regime that would ensue would affect all PL clubs, the resultant outward rush of high earners would certainly dent LFC's future chances of European glory.

I guess the pleasure at seeing middle class wealth taxed away and redistributed to lazy arses would be worth it right?
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Think there is too much playing the ball not the man in this thread.

It's universally accepted that rotation helps players keep fit, fresh and firing. Helps to limit injuries and prolong careers.

Hell it's why teams have squads and substitutions were introduced into the game in the first place.

Rafa and his rotation. Ranieri and his tinkering. Are these people idiots just because you don't like the poster who is saying we need it in this thread?

I believe Klopp agrees as our depth and rotation has steadily improved in each season to the point were we have great rotation and depth in Central midfield (despite a bit of a lack on creativity) and Central defence (despite injury issues amongst some cracking choices ability wise).

I do believe our forward depth will improve this summer. It was always my belief the plan was to have had Fekir added to this current squad. And although known the injury to Ox hasn't stopped a spot being left open for him.

If Mignolet wants to move on a keeper will be brought in. If Klopp addresses CB or Lovren or Matip want to leave a new CB will be brought in. At least one starting quality attacker will be added the fabled "Coutinho replacement" who might, in reality, play nothing like Phil. Depending on decisions made over players like Origi and kids like Wilson a second attacker may be bought too.
 

RaoulDuke

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I have no doubt that this country is thick enough - and bitter enough - to put Corbyn in number 10.

And whilst the high tax regime that would ensue would affect all PL clubs, the resultant outward rush of high earners would certainly dent LFC's future chances of European glory.

I guess the pleasure at seeing middle class wealth taxed away and redistributed to lazy arses would be worth it right?
Very telling.
I guess I know everything I need to know about your views now.
 



RedForever2014

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Very telling.
I guess I know everything I need to know about your views now.
Yep, the politics of envy, though interestingly not envy of those out of sight in their mansions, just the guy over the road or round the corner who earns a bit more.

Not the politics of everyone being equal, just nobody else being better off than me.
 

Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
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I have no doubt that this country is thick enough - and bitter enough - to put Corbyn in number 10.

And whilst the high tax regime that would ensue would affect all PL clubs, the resultant outward rush of high earners would certainly dent LFC's future chances of European glory.

I guess the pleasure at seeing middle class wealth taxed away and redistributed to lazy arses would be worth it right?
Corbyn has never been about taxing the middle classes. Had you read the last manifesto you would understand this. Perhaps you could research sources other than the daily mail, and keep threads like this on topic?

I know all about the Dunning-Kruger effect. You've only got to look at the Labour Party front bench for notable examples.

Why do you think I spend so much time trying to help you overcome it! :)
I’m certainly not a victim of the Dunning/Kruger effect. That is a tendency amongst people who know little to assume they are experts. My position through our long, long discussions has always been this is a lot harder than we think it is, let’s cut the guys who know what they are doing a bit of slack. I’m, if anything, the exact opposite of Dunning-Kruger.

Yep, the politics of envy, though interestingly not envy of those out of sight in their mansions, just the guy over the road or round the corner who earns a bit more.

Not the politics of everyone being equal, just nobody else being better off than me.
Come on. On topic please.

If you want to add progressive, social democratic politics to the list of subject matter you don’t understand, start a new thread for it.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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I have no doubt that this country is thick enough - and bitter enough - to put Corbyn in number 10.

And whilst the high tax regime that would ensue would affect all PL clubs, the resultant outward rush of high earners would certainly dent LFC's future chances of European glory.

I guess the pleasure at seeing middle class wealth taxed away and redistributed to lazy arses would be worth it right?
At the risk of derailing a thread only a fool talks about something he doesn't have experience of. I suggest you spend some time actually in a job centre speaking to some of the "lazy arses" we get in there. It would be a real eye opener. If you can be in Merseyside I could happily see if i could arrange something. Thats me attempting to be as civil and polite as possible over something i can get too passionate over.
 

RedForever2014

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Think there is too much playing the ball not the man in this thread.

It's universally accepted that rotation helps players keep fit, fresh and firing. Helps to limit injuries and prolong careers.

Hell it's why teams have squads and substitutions were introduced into the game in the first place.

Rafa and his rotation. Ranieri and his tinkering. Are these people idiots just because you don't like the poster who is saying we need it in this thread?

I believe Klopp agrees as our depth and rotation has steadily improved in each season to the point were we have great rotation and depth in Central midfield (despite a bit of a lack on creativity) and Central defence (despite injury issues amongst some cracking choices ability wise).

I do believe our forward depth will improve this summer. It was always my belief the plan was to have had Fekir added to this current squad. And although known the injury to Ox hasn't stopped a spot being left open for him.

If Mignolet wants to move on a keeper will be brought in. If Klopp addresses CB or Lovren or Matip want to leave a new CB will be brought in. At least one starting quality attacker will be added the fabled "Coutinho replacement" who might, in reality, play nothing like Phil. Depending on decisions made over players like Origi and kids like Wilson a second attacker may be bought too.
For me the group that comprises attacking midfield, the wingers and forwards/strikers needs to be reworked. These interchange a bit and the AM's rarely play CM proper.

Oxlade, Keita, Lallana, Shaqiri, Mane, Salah, Bobby, Origi (those in contract, not Sturridge who is gone).

If we need eight, plus the four CM's and eight defenders in a twenty man senior outfield squad, ideally we'd sign a striker, number 10 and pacey wide man, letting Lallana, Origi and even Shaqiri go.
 

RedForever2014

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At the risk of derailing a thread only a fool talks about something he doesn't have experience of. I suggest you spend some time actually in a job centre speaking to some of the "lazy arses" we get in there. It would be a real eye opener. If you can be in Merseyside I could happily see if i could arrange something. Thats me attempting to be as civil and polite as possible over something i can get too passionate over.
I wasn't talking about those looking for a job, I was talking about those who don't. I nearly added public sector workers to that, but I guess you'd then join those who play the man not the ball and generally we get along just fine.
 



Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
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I wasn't talking about those looking for a job, I was talking about those who don't. I nearly added public sector workers to that, but I guess you'd then join those who play the man not the ball and generally we get along just fine.
Back on topic please, or there will be points.
 

shachart

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Assuming our injured players come back, we got Ox returning to midfield, Lovren and Gomez to CB's.
With Migs, Moreno and Clyne expected to leave, and there is only so much you can expect from Milner, We need a backup LB, RB and GK.
We have been lacking this season in the AM position, Keita has not proven himself, Shaq while started brightly - fell out of grace, Lallana is showing glimpses but I would't count on him. Ox is returning and I suspect Harry Wilson will get a chance ( he is playing that position for Lampard ). Unless there is a great deal out there, i would not put this as priority.
The front three is where we are very thin. It is a miracle we have been able to go through the last 2 seasons without any major injuries to our attacking 3. ( Salah injury in the CL final did not affect us this season, and Firmino scored important goals with one eye ). Origi and Sturidge ( Sorry Danny boy ) are not good enough, they can fill in for the odd game or so, but not on a regular basis.
If we can get him ( which I think is more liekly than people think ) I would get Son from Spurs.
 



redfanman

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Assuming our injured players come back, we got Ox returning to midfield, Lovren and Gomez to CB's.
With Migs, Moreno and Clyne expected to leave, and there is only so much you can expect from Milner, We need a backup LB, RB and GK.
We have been lacking this season in the AM position, Keita has not proven himself, Shaq while started brightly - fell out of grace, Lallana is showing glimpses but I would't count on him. Ox is returning and I suspect Harry Wilson will get a chance ( he is playing that position for Lampard ). Unless there is a great deal out there, i would not put this as priority.
The front three is where we are very thin. It is a miracle we have been able to go through the last 2 seasons without any major injuries to our attacking 3. ( Salah injury in the CL final did not affect us this season, and Firmino scored important goals with one eye ). Origi and Sturidge ( Sorry Danny boy ) are not good enough, they can fill in for the odd game or so, but not on a regular basis.
If we can get him ( which I think is more liekly than people think ) I would get Son from Spurs.
The rumours are the Wilson would loaned out again to a premier league team if possible. I'm not sure i see him featuring with our first team next season.

Spurs arent going to sell Son to us unless we significantly over pay. They are moving on several of their players this summer and will want to keep him and certainly not lose him to a domestic rival.
 

shachart

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The rumours are the Wilson would loaned out again to a premier league team if possible. I'm not sure i see him featuring with our first team next season.

Spurs arent going to sell Son to us unless we significantly over pay. They are moving on several of their players this summer and will want to keep him and certainly not lose him to a domestic rival.
Regarding Wilson - I expect it all depends how he impress in preseason.
As for Son, I think it will have a lot to do with Pochetino. Spurs don';t have the money to go on a shopping spree, Poch might leave. I think most of their top players will want to move on to compete for silverware. I would imagine Spurs will ask for something around 60M-70M, for him. If I need to choose between Son or Timo Werner ( assuming they will cost about the same ), I'd go for Son.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Poch wouldn't have much to say about it,you don't get reasonable valuations from Mr Levy.
Think that's a bit of an outdated myth. Hasn't really got an eye opening price on a sale since Bale 6 years ago this summer. Maybe argue Walker. Some of their recent sales Edwards would have got double or treble.

 

Scott Jones

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Think that's a bit of an outdated myth. Hasn't really got an eye opening price on a sale since Bale 6 years ago this summer. Maybe argue Walker. Some of their recent sales Edwards would have got double or treble.

Yeah,i'll stick with Levy putting an unrealistic price on anybody we'd try to buy off them,no doubt at all.
 



redfanman

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Think that's a bit of an outdated myth. Hasn't really got an eye opening price on a sale since Bale 6 years ago this summer. Maybe argue Walker. Some of their recent sales Edwards would have got double or treble.

Hasnt really sold anyone of note except Walker in that time though either. I dont see Edwards having that much more success on those other players when they left.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Hasnt really sold anyone of note except Walker in that time though either. I dont see Edwards having that much more success on those other players when they left.
Dembele? 2 and a half years after buying him they got less than a quarter of his fee back. He started lots of games in that time and international player. We got more for Brad Smith.
 

Dave-D

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Dembele? 2 and a half years after buying him they got less than a quarter of his fee back. He started lots of games in that time and international player. We got more for Brad Smith.
Only had six months left on his contract and said his body wasn’t up to playing in the EPL anymore.
 

redfanman

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Dembele? 2 and a half years after buying him they got less than a quarter of his fee back. He started lots of games in that time and international player. We got more for Brad Smith.
I think you are confusing him with Moussa Sissoko - he was signed 2-3 seasons ago, Dembele was signed about 7 years ago. No doubt a really good player, but only started just over half their games on average i think. And, as @Dave-D says, he did say he was finding it harder to play in the premier league because of the physicality, and he is already 32.

Bournemouth overpaid for Brad, but there was some justification given his youth and a couple of good cameo performances for us suggesting the potential was there (do we know how much of that was straight up cash and how much was add ons?).