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Who would you buy?

Iluvatar

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I agree with @ILLOK from another thread after thinking about it. Why would we go for Werner and stunt Brewsters route to the 1st team? Firmino is nigh on indestructible.. In fact our front 3 rarely get injured. So Brewster will get the right amount of minutes to allow for small breaks.

Our 1st team is basically there or there about, I can't see a single position we need to significantly upgrade so what are we looking for?

Has to be a left back for backup/rotation with Robertson, a wide goal scoring player who can rotate with Mane/Salah and then depth for the no.10/8 role.

I also think Klopp likes players who can play in multiple positions for the most part, it's rare we have specialists bar central defenders and fullbacks.

So who should be buy?

Sessegnon - Covers Left Back and Left Forward
Lloyd Kelly - Covers Left Back and Left Center Half
Brandt - Covers no.8/10 and Left/Right Forward
Hudson-Odoi - Left/Right Forward

and for me that's it, job done.

I'd let Sturridge, Moreno, Lovren, Lallana, Shaqiri, Milner (now this would be more that he may want a last swansong at Leeds if they come up) all leave. Leaving us with a squad as follows;

GK - Alisson, Mignolet
LB - Robertson, Sessegnon, Kelly
LCB - Van Dijk, Kelly
RCB - Gomez, Matip
RB - Alexander-Arnold, Gomez, Fabinho
DM - Fabinho, Henderson, Wijnaldum
CM - Keita, Henderson, Wijnaldum
AM - Oxlade, Brandt, Henderson
LF - Mane, Sessegnon, Hudson-Odoi
CF - Firmino, Brewster, Salah
RF - Salah, Hudson-Odoi, Brandt

Can't really see a weakness with that squad and plenty of minutes for all players.
 

Limiescouse

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The club clearly have massive expectations for Brewster. He is however an 18 year old without a single senior appearance to his name. Werner, while possibly over hyped has been one of the best non-Bayern players in the league for a couple of seasons and a German international. I dont think it is reasonable to avoid looking at players like Werner because of what Brewster may become.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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I agree with @ILLOK from another thread after thinking about it. Why would we go for Werner and stunt Brewsters route to the 1st team? Firmino is nigh on indestructible.. In fact our front 3 rarely get injured. So Brewster will get the right amount of minutes to allow for small breaks.

Our 1st team is basically there or there about, I can't see a single position we need to significantly upgrade so what are we looking for?

Has to be a left back for backup/rotation with Robertson, a wide goal scoring player who can rotate with Mane/Salah and then depth for the no.10/8 role.

I also think Klopp likes players who can play in multiple positions for the most part, it's rare we have specialists bar central defenders and fullbacks.

So who should be buy?

Sessegnon - Covers Left Back and Left Forward
Lloyd Kelly - Covers Left Back and Left Center Half
Brandt - Covers no.8/10 and Left/Right Forward
Hudson-Odoi - Left/Right Forward

and for me that's it, job done.

I'd let Sturridge, Moreno, Lovren, Lallana, Shaqiri, Milner (now this would be more that he may want a last swansong at Leeds if they come up) all leave. Leaving us with a squad as follows;

GK - Alisson, Mignolet
LB - Robertson, Sessegnon, Kelly
LCB - Van Dijk, Kelly
RCB - Gomez, Matip
RB - Alexander-Arnold, Gomez, Fabinho
DM - Fabinho, Henderson, Wijnaldum
CM - Keita, Henderson, Wijnaldum
AM - Oxlade, Brandt, Henderson
LF - Mane, Sessegnon, Hudson-Odoi
CF - Firmino, Brewster, Salah
RF - Salah, Hudson-Odoi, Brandt

Can't really see a weakness with that squad and plenty of minutes for all players.
I agree with a lot of your thinking (especially as Mane and Salah are also options centrally) however I think Sessegnon and Hudson-Odoi or Sancho would be enough.

I'd buy a CB if Lovren and/or Matip want to move on but not Kelly, someone better suited to be 3rd choice challenging Gomez for 2nd choice.

I'd keep Shaqiri for now and use Wilson to flesh out our options too.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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The club clearly have massive expectations for Brewster. He is however an 18 year old without a single senior appearance to his name. Werner, while possibly over hyped has been one of the best non-Bayern players in the league for a couple of seasons and a German international. I dont think it is reasonable to avoid looking at players like Werner because of what Brewster may become.
I'd prefer;

CF: Firmino, Mane, Salah, Brewster
Wings: Salah, Mane, Hudson-Odoi/Sancho

Than;
CF: Firmino, Werner, Mane, Salah, Brewster
Wings: Salah, Mane, Werner

If it's a straight choice between adding a CF that can play wide or a wide player allowing Mane and Brewster to play CF more I'd go with the wide player.
 

ILLOK

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The club clearly have massive expectations for Brewster. He is however an 18 year old without a single senior appearance to his name. Werner, while possibly over hyped has been one of the best non-Bayern players in the league for a couple of seasons and a German international. I dont think it is reasonable to avoid looking at players like Werner because of what Brewster may become.
You could apply this logic against giving a chance to any youth player.

If the club think Brewster is good enough we shouldn't be buying a player of the exact same style, not a player like Werner who definitely isn't a significantly better talent.

Hss Werner been one of the best non-Bayern in the previous two seasons? 13 goals last season and 14 so far this. Decent return but nothing special for a player who isn't too impressive in the build up phase.

He had a great 16/17 but since then he doesn't appear to have pulled up any trees. Looking at the players who are putting up similar numbers (Kramaric, Poulson, Haller etc) I don't think we'd want any of them either.
 

Limiescouse

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Probably. There are plenty of players who would excite me more than Werner, but it is unlikely that we avoid bringing in another player for the front line because we're ready to have an 18 year old with the same amount of premier league experience as I do to be our #4 for the front 3. Bringing in that additional player should not be seen as a step that will inhibit the development of Brewster.
 

ILLOK

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Probably. There are plenty of players who would excite me more than Werner, but it is unlikely that we avoid bringing in another player for the front line because we're ready to have an 18 year old with the same amount of premier league experience as I do to be our #4 for the front 3. Bringing in that additional player should not be seen as a step that will inhibit the development of Brewster.
Nobody is arguing Brewster should be that player, it's just that Werner shouldn't either. He's neither good enough or the right type, imo.
 

Iluvatar

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The club clearly have massive expectations for Brewster. He is however an 18 year old without a single senior appearance to his name. Werner, while possibly over hyped has been one of the best non-Bayern players in the league for a couple of seasons and a German international. I dont think it is reasonable to avoid looking at players like Werner because of what Brewster may become.
I don't think it is that black and white. This season (and I missed him off the list) we've moved Mane and/or Salah central and used Origi on the flanks. I think this again will continue next season and is also a viable rotation for Firmino.

So long story short, I think the back up to Firmino is actually Salah or Mane, but Brewster gets minutes (end of games, cup games etc.)

What I think ILLOK means is buying Werner means any minutes Brewster would have got will go to Werner (otherwise why buy him?)

p.s. I think Origi may be linked to Hudson-Odoi, if Chelsea refuse to sell and we let him wait out his contract we retain Origi for another year and let him go when Odoi comes in (who is a vastly better player).
 

redfanman

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I don't think it is that black and white. This season (and I missed him off the list) we've moved Mane and/or Salah central and used Origi on the flanks. I think this again will continue next season and is also a viable rotation for Firmino.

So long story short, I think the back up to Firmino is actually Salah or Mane, but Brewster gets minutes (end of games, cup games etc.)

What I think ILLOK means is buying Werner means any minutes Brewster would have got will go to Werner (otherwise why buy him?)

p.s. I think Origi may be linked to Hudson-Odoi, if Chelsea refuse to sell and we let him wait out his contract we retain Origi for another year and let him go when Odoi comes in (who is a vastly better player).
I dont think it is accurate to say that minutes that could go to Brewster would go to Werner (or another). Even ignoring possible injuries to any of the front 3, we may see ourselves advancing in domestic cups or just wanting to swap things round to keep players fresh - so moving the front 3 into different roles becomes more of an option and less a need. In addition, if Origi were to stay - do we know which Origi we would see? The one who like a couple of years ago has an impact, or the one we saw in between that people couldnt wait to see the back of?
 

ILLOK

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I was responding to a person who did that make claim.
Who? The others have advocated bringing Odoi/Brandt/Sancho in as well.

Salah and Mane can cover centre forward better than Firmino/Origi/Chamberlain/Shaqiri can cover the wide areas, so it would make more sense to prioritise a wide player. A player who can drbble well would be ideal, that's not Werner (or Brewster for that matter).
 

Red over the water

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I'd prefer;

CF: Firmino, Mane, Salah, Brewster
Wings: Salah, Mane, Hudson-Odoi/Sancho

Than;
CF: Firmino, Werner, Mane, Salah, Brewster
Wings: Salah, Mane, Werner

If it's a straight choice between adding a CF that can play wide or a wide player allowing Mane and Brewster to play CF more I'd go with the wide player.
When I see it like this, I'm on board. A goalscoring winger is more of a priority than another centre forward, since Mane and Salah can also play centrally, and Brewster will start to need some minutes next season too.

If not Hudson-Odoi or Sancho, perhaps Bergwijn? Or maybe Neres?
 

JustHitMyHead

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I don't buy this notion that a winger is more of a priority. We buy the best damn goal scoring option we can get... as the others forwards we have are quite flexible.

To me that is Jovic. Unless you are a freak of a workhorse, mad pressing machine like Firmino... then the primary goal of our forwards is to score. If we need to loan out Brewster to get experience then we do so, but he isn't ready to be anyone's long-term backup if any of our front 3 get injured.

On Hudson-Odoi... he looks great but if Salah is out for a couple months are you confident our goalscoring won't miss a beat? I'm not.
 

ILLOK

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I don't buy this notion that a winger is more of a priority. We buy the best damn goal scoring option we can get... as the others forwards we have are quite flexible.

To me that is Jovic. Unless you are a freak of a workhorse, mad pressing machine like Firmino... then the primary goal of our forwards is to score. If we need to loan out Brewster to get experience then we do so, but he isn't ready to be anyone's long-term backup if any of our front 3 get injured.

On Hudson-Odoi... he looks great but if Salah is out for a couple months are you confident our goalscoring won't miss a beat? I'm not.
If Salah is out for a couple of months we'll struggle to replicate his form regardless of who we sign, simply by virtue of Salah being one of the best forwards on the planet.

It wasn't long ago before Gomez and Trent weren't 'ready', yet now they're first picks in what is a world class side. It's not necessary to be so conservative young players if they're good enough.

Everybody wants young players to come through but nobody wants to give them a proper chance. We should roll the dice on Brewster.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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I don't buy this notion that a winger is more of a priority. We buy the best damn goal scoring option we can get... as the others forwards we have are quite flexible.

To me that is Jovic. Unless you are a freak of a workhorse, mad pressing machine like Firmino... then the primary goal of our forwards is to score. If we need to loan out Brewster to get experience then we do so, but he isn't ready to be anyone's long-term backup if any of our front 3 get injured.

On Hudson-Odoi... he looks great but if Salah is out for a couple months are you confident our goalscoring won't miss a beat? I'm not.
Hudson-Odoi would do better covering for Salah than anyone else currently in our side. Hudson-Odoi, Firmino, Mane would be better than Mane, Jovic, Firmino.
 

redfanman

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I don't buy this notion that a winger is more of a priority. We buy the best damn goal scoring option we can get... as the others forwards we have are quite flexible.

To me that is Jovic. Unless you are a freak of a workhorse, mad pressing machine like Firmino... then the primary goal of our forwards is to score. If we need to loan out Brewster to get experience then we do so, but he isn't ready to be anyone's long-term backup if any of our front 3 get injured.

On Hudson-Odoi... he looks great but if Salah is out for a couple months are you confident our goalscoring won't miss a beat? I'm not.
If we lose Mane or Salah to injury, we lose more than just the goals they score and I don't think they are so easily replaced within the current squad, nor from bringing in some one just because they score goals.
 

JustHitMyHead

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Hudson-Odoi would do better covering for Salah than anyone else currently in our side. Hudson-Odoi, Firmino, Mane would be better than Mane, Jovic, Firmino.
Better at what? At keeping play similar? We are comparing someone who has been among the top few elite strikers in Europe for a season and a half, with someone who has impressed in a handful of games versus cherry-picked weaker competition.

Not that Hudson-Odoi isn't going to become a great player in the future but Chelsea is going to prefer to sell abroad and he still has lots to learn about playing against better competition. For example, as the only top team he has played against, we were able to nullify his game simply by giving him less space.

Frankly, if either or both were available then we should do all we can do to get them. But I think Jovic will be off to Real Madrid / Barcelona while Hudson-Odoi will be sold outside England.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Better at what? At keeping play similar? We are comparing someone who has been among the top few elite strikers in Europe for a season and a half, with someone who has impressed in a handful of games versus cherry-picked weaker competition.

Not that Hudson-Odoi isn't going to become a great player in the future but Chelsea is going to prefer to sell abroad and he still has lots to learn about playing against better competition. For example, as the only top team he has played against, we were able to nullify his game simply by giving him less space.

Frankly, if either or both were available then we should do all we can do to get them. But I think Jovic will be off to Real Madrid / Barcelona while Hudson-Odoi will be sold outside England.
Using Hudson-Odoi as an example but yeah. It's not just about quality it's about us playing in a very specific way. Firmino does a very specific job in the middle of our front 3, it's not just about scoring goals. It's why Mane is next choice in that position over Origi, Sturridge and even Salah. Because Mane does the closest "Firmino impression"! Likewise Firmino, as good as he is, is awful at trying to replicate the relentless speed and constant danger cutting in from wide areas that we need from Salah and Mane. Our whole starting 11 performs certain ways that mesh and fit in together. You change the roles of the front 3 and it changes what the rest of the players roles are too. They don't play in isolation.
 

RedForever2014

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Whilst you'd never expect to have 20 same level rotatable outfield options, we probably have 15 (including a fit Oxlade) from whom a best 11 of a similar level could be picked.

This includes TAA, Gomez, VVD, Matip, Lovren, Robertson, Fab, Gini, Hendo, Milner, Keita, Oxlade, Bobby, Mo, Mane.

Obviously Milner is cracking on and three centre backs are injury prone, but the other issues remain a lack of full back options, the lack of a creative midfielder, and the lack of any rotation up top.

The main issue is that we can't rotate the front three without a significant drop off.

It would have been handy just now to have more than Origi in this respect.
 

lfc.8

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Alisson, Robertson, van Dijk, Gomez, Alexander-Arnold, Fabinho, Mane, Firmino, Salah. That's a good foundation, and for the most part all these players are fine. Alexander-Arnold is improving but is not faultless either.

The areas which need strengthening remains midfield, another forward, probably more a wide forward, plus a fullback and centre back. At the moment I look at the midfield as Fabinho plus two. Keita has talent but hasn't shown enough. Midfield collectively (first eleven wise) is probably the weakest part to our team and where we can see most improvement.

We have a good squad but whatever we achieve this season there still needs to be improvement going forward. Improved contracts for certain players won't nearly be enough. We need to see some investment in a few key players.
 

Koon

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I think things will depend entirely on how we plan we will play next season.

We have two main formations: 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3. Klopp obviously tried to play 4-2-3-1 at the start of the season and it was good for some time, but eventually we reverted back to 4-3-3.

I'd add that Werner is not Firmino's backup, he is Salah's backup. In terms of play style, he resembles Salah much more as a pacey forward. Firmino is a space creator, a very, very different kind of player.

As I said a few times, I doubt we will ever play regularly with Salah as RW in 4-2-3-1. We've never seen something like that under Klopp and the manager already said that Salah is more dangerous closer to the goal. When we play 4-2-3-1, Salah is the main striker, meaning that Werner would only be needed as a backup in 4-2-3-1.

In 4-3-3 (Klopp's main formation since he's become Liverpool manager), we play with Firmino as a false 9 and he is by far the most important piece of the puzzle. I'd argue that Werner is nowhere near the kind of player who could replicate Firmino. Werner is not very good creating space, his technique is average at best and he is not exactly a very bright playmaker. He is good at running and finding some space for him to play, with the help of Poulsen, who's very good in the air and at holding the ball. The one who create space at Leipzig is Poulsen, Werner is the main striker, usually coming from behind.

Nowadays, we've been using Mané as a false 9 when we need, and he's been very promising imo.

With that being said, the only place for Werner to play the way we've been using the 4-3-3 is in the left wing, and I think we have many better players we could bring in this position. There may be like 10~15 players who could do better than Werner in there.

So, imo, if we are playing mainly 4-2-3-1, maybe Werner could be an option as a backup player. But if we are playing 4-3-3 the same way we've been playing, Werner could only fit one place and there are many better prospects out there.

Oh, and imo, Werner is a striker. He can play in the left wing the same way as Origi can play there or Milner at RB/LB. It's not something natural, it won't bring the best out of him.

I'd love some striker/number 10 like Dybala, James Rodriguez, Griezmann, Jovic, and stuff like that, but the way we've been playing 4-3-3 makes me think that we are not looking for a "pure" number 10 anymore or another striker unless it's someone who can do what Firmino does. I think we will be looking for a number 8, a playmaker but also someone who's okay defensively. For now, Brandt is the one who comes to my mind, but we could also think about Zielinski, Eriksen, Aouar, Ndombele and so on.

And the last buy might be a pacey winger to replicate Mané and Salah, but also be comfortable as a rotation player only. Here there are so many options: Zaha, Chiesa, Son, Odoi, Everton, Thorgan Hazard (not pacey, though), Leon Bailey...

It will be interesting seeing how Klopp will aim to play next season. I think we will 100% bring in a another winger, but I have doubts about another number 10, 8 or a striker. We shall see.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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I think things will depend entirely on how we plan we will play next season.

We have two main formations: 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3. Klopp obviously tried to play 4-2-3-1 at the start of the season and it was good for some time, but eventually we reverted back to 4-3-3.

I'd add that Werner is not Firmino's backup, he is Salah's backup. In terms of play style, he resembles Salah much more as a pacey forward. Firmino is a space creator, a very, very different kind of player.

As I said a few times, I doubt we will ever play regularly with Salah as RW in 4-2-3-1. We've never seen something like that under Klopp and the manager already said that Salah is more dangerous closer to the goal. When we play 4-2-3-1, Salah is the main striker, meaning that Werner would only be needed as a backup in 4-2-3-1.

In 4-3-3 (Klopp's main formation since he's become Liverpool manager), we play with Firmino as a false 9 and he is by far the most important piece of the puzzle. I'd argue that Werner is nowhere near the kind of player who could replicate Firmino. Werner is not very good creating space, his technique is average at best and he is not exactly a very bright playmaker. He is good at running and finding some space for him to play, with the help of Poulsen, who's very good in the air and at holding the ball. The one who create space at Leipzig is Poulsen, Werner is the main striker, usually coming from behind.

Nowadays, we've been using Mané as a false 9 when we need, and he's been very promising imo.

With that being said, the only place for Werner to play the way we've been using the 4-3-3 is in the left wing, and I think we have many better players we could bring in this position. There may be like 10~15 players who could do better than Werner in there.

So, imo, if we are playing mainly 4-2-3-1, maybe Werner could be an option as a backup player. But if we are playing 4-3-3 the same way we've been playing, Werner could only fit one place and there are many better prospects out there.

Oh, and imo, Werner is a striker. He can play in the left wing the same way as Origi can play there or Milner at RB/LB. It's not something natural, it won't bring the best out of him.

I'd love some striker/number 10 like Dybala, James Rodriguez, Griezmann, Jovic, and stuff like that, but the way we've been playing 4-3-3 makes me think that we are not looking for a "pure" number 10 anymore or another striker unless it's someone who can do what Firmino does. I think we will be looking for a number 8, a playmaker but also someone who's okay defensively. For now, Brandt is the one who comes to my mind, but we could also think about Zielinski, Eriksen, Aouar, Ndombele and so on.

And the last buy might be a pacey winger to replicate Mané and Salah, but also be comfortable as a rotation player only. Here there are so many options: Zaha, Chiesa, Son, Odoi, Everton, Thorgan Hazard (not pacey, though), Leon Bailey...

It will be interesting seeing how Klopp will aim to play next season. I think we will 100% bring in a another winger, but I have doubts about another number 10, 8 or a striker. We shall see.
Good summary, fully agree.

Think last summer the plan was to convert us from 433 to 4231 but for one reason or another it hasn't quite worked.

Salah was to move up top with various back up provided by Sturridge, one of Origi or Solanke (although we didn't get rid of one till winter) and, when he returned to fitness, Brewster.

In the 3 behind I think the plan was to add Fekir and Shaqiri to Mane, Firmino and Lallana whilst getting Ox back up to speed and fitness. Think we maybe used Keita here a lot when we failed to sign Fekir but think he was really viewed as part of the two man CM base.

I think we had some you with Salah up top but not with the 3 behind. Keita was a poor Fekir alternative, it's not the guys natural game he's looked a lot better since reverting to 433. Lallana hasn't been available much. Firmino has been a lot less effective, Mane is slightly better in 433 than 4231.

Think we are just that bit better in 433 so we have gone back to it. Maybe to stay.

Shame for Shaqiri who seemed to be the main one benefiting in 4231 and hasn't actually done too bad for the amount of time he's been on the pitch. But Klopp has yet to really turn to him in the 433. Maybe he'll give him a chance as most offensive 8 or wide in the 3 man attack but think it's more likely this season is a one off for Xherdan here unless Klopp recruits for 4231 again this summer.
 

GermanRed

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I usually enjoy the transfer and squad prediction stuff but not at the moment (end of the season / fighting for two trophies). I have no idea what Klopp will do in the summer and tbh i couldn't care less atm.

'FIFA Manager fans' might disagree but - Mr. Klopp win us the double and i'd be 100% ok with not bringing in new players and filling in the squad places with our young talents.
 

Kopstar

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I usually enjoy the transfer and squad prediction stuff but not at the moment (end of the season / fighting for two trophies). I have no idea what Klopp will do in the summer and tbh i couldn't care less atm.

'FIFA Manager fans' might disagree but - Mr. Klopp win us the double and i'd be 100% ok with not bringing in new players and filling in the squad places with our young talents.
Pretty confident that the club have already sorted at least one new arrival. But you're right, far more important things for us (fans) to think about at the moment.