- Joined
- Sep 25, 2012
- Messages
- 11,523
Then there needs to be honesty about that.I think the opposite. Going on loan is a way of putting yourself in the shop window if the club don´t think you have what it takes for LFC.
Then there needs to be honesty about that.I think the opposite. Going on loan is a way of putting yourself in the shop window if the club don´t think you have what it takes for LFC.
It is nothing like that circumstance though is it?You actually can.
Go on give me a job. I can be your area manager.
You´ve never been an area manager, you´ve never never even been a depot manager.
Yeah but I was a good warehouseman, I worked really hard and I was never late.
Yep but you need other qualities and I don´t see those in you.
It´s not fair.
This is basically what you are saying. Klopp might or might not give hime a few games for us but if he doesn´t then it does´t mean Klopp was out of order.
I can agree with that.Then there needs to be honesty about that.
It's only very recently that Fabinho has been trusted as the number 6 in the deep role, he barely played early on in the season and then we changed to a 4231 formation. We reverted back to it after the palace game when we played Leicester at home (might have been West Ham the game after, can't remember exactly), we've played 14 (or 13!) games since then. Henderson missed 2 games through injury and was an unused sub for the Fulham game, just after returning from the injury. So let's look at the other 11.So why wasn't Henderson used in a more attacking CM role in the games Fabinho was trusted as the number 6 for?
It´s called an illustration/example.It is nothing like that circumstance though is it?
Klopp has admitted to viewing Henderson as purely a 6 I'm not sure why I'm getting argued with? Err can you show me this ARD? You´re getting argued with cos loads don´t agree with your point and you´re making things up.
Klopps own words are 18 months. I'm not sure why you're now trying to argue with Klopp himself over the timeframe he has kept Henderson as a number 6 for?It's only very recently that Fabinho has been trusted as the number 6 in the deep role, he barely played early on in the season and then we changed to a 4231 formation. We reverted back to it after the palace game when we played Leicester at home (might have been West Ham the game after, can't remember exactly), we've played 14 (or 13!) games since then. Henderson missed 2 games through injury and was an unused sub for the Fulham game, just after returning from the injury. So let's look at the other 11.
Henderson had to play RB vs Leicester due to injuries.
Fabinho had to play CB vs Munich due to injuries.
9 left.
Henderson was chosen over of Fabinho for Tottenham and Munich (A).
7 left.
Henderson played in midfield ahead of Fabinho against United, Everton, Porto and Chelsea. He came off the bench against Watford, Burnley and Southampton and played ahead of Fabinho.
Seems about right to me. Klopp knows what Henderson is capable of, there will be nothing in his recent performances that has surprised him.
I answered your question that was specifically about Fabinho, he has not been here for 18 months.Klopps own words are 18 months. I'm not sure why you're now trying to argue with Klopp himself over the timeframe he has kept Henderson as a number 6 for?
Mate, come on, self awareness..![]()
Why Klopp apologised to Henderson after Liverpool beat Porto
The Reds boss saluted Henderson's performance in the 2-0 win against Porto in the Champions League and offered him a humorous apologywww.liverpoolecho.co.uk
I know people who weren't there are trying to second guess Klopps words and put different meanings to it but the journalists there (who get to hear the questions he responds to which, for some bizarre reason, never get put in the articles) all seem unified in understanding that Jurgen has been playing Henderson as a number 6 despite Jordan's wishes to play further forward.
Ok. I'm not arguing that Jordan wanted to play further forward and Klopp has played as a 6.![]()
Why Klopp apologised to Henderson after Liverpool beat Porto
The Reds boss saluted Henderson's performance in the 2-0 win against Porto in the Champions League and offered him a humorous apologywww.liverpoolecho.co.uk
I know people who weren't there are trying to second guess Klopps words and put different meanings to it but the journalists there (who get to hear the questions he responds to which, for some bizarre reason, never get put in the articles) all seem unified in understanding that Jurgen has been playing Henderson as a number 6 despite Jordan's wishes to play further forward.
What you actually said was that he would need to get some games for it to qualify as being given a chance. And not getting those games would send a bad signal to other kids. The latter is not a real problem, because it is predicated on an unreasonable expectation.The point I’m making is not Wilson is good enough for LFC, or Wilson should get starts. It’s that his Derby form gives Klopp a problem. That’s it.
Players get picked in a meritocratic manner. The manager does not just throw players out there blind to see what happens. He know the players, he sees them every day, and the ones he puts out are the ones who show him they are the best options. So a kid, even a talented one, can train as hard as he likes, but if there are 5 or 6 players in his position showing more than he him then he isn’t going to play.All of which Klopp has tried out on the pitch. You can't know what someone can deliver on the pitch purely from training. And this comes back to mascots original point. Klopp can't say "train hard and you'll get your chance" if he isn't actually giving players chances. As I said I think you are wrong and Klopp will give Wilson chances on the pitch for us before ending his time here
No one is denying that. That does not mean that Klopp had previously viewed him as a player who could only play 6 or even was best at 6 as you have been claiming. What he has done is view him as someone who it was best for LIVERPOOL if he played at 6. Now Fab is settled, a slow process, the situation is seemingly different.Jurgen has been playing Henderson as a number 6 despite Jordan's wishes to play further forward.
Wilson's form at Derby has given Klopp food for thought, but I wouldn't class it as a problem, as such. Arguably the player can come in and be a squad member for us, and if he kicks on from that, great. But on the other hand, maybe Klopp will place more of an emphasis on other qualities he wants e.g. speed and physicality. At that point Wilson's form for Derby should at least mean we will get a reasonable fee for him, and it will be up to the player to carve out a good career for himself.
Generally speaking, for an elite team that is battling for the Prem and the CL, we have good form for giving young players a chance. It is rarified air at our level, so most won't make it, even good ones. You have to be better than good.
Will it mean that the well will start to dry up in terms of young talent who will come here? Not for me it won't. It's not just about working hard. That is a prerequisite. But it is working hard and also having the talent and skillset the manager needs for the first team set up.
Wilson has worked hard and done everything required of him. No complaints there at all.
Does he have what the manager needs for the first team set up?
We'll find out soon enough! If he does, he stays here. If he doesn't, we sell him.
We're Top Gun now. Only the best of the best youngsters need apply.
TBF,£25m Lovren and £15m each for Clyne,Sturridge and Lallana doesn't seem too far away.
I agree with a lot of your thinking (especially as Mane and Salah are also options centrally) however I think Sessegnon and Hudson-Odoi or Sancho would be enough.I agree with @ILLOK from another thread after thinking about it. Why would we go for Werner and stunt Brewsters route to the 1st team? Firmino is nigh on indestructible.. In fact our front 3 rarely get injured. So Brewster will get the right amount of minutes to allow for small breaks.
Our 1st team is basically there or there about, I can't see a single position we need to significantly upgrade so what are we looking for?
Has to be a left back for backup/rotation with Robertson, a wide goal scoring player who can rotate with Mane/Salah and then depth for the no.10/8 role.
I also think Klopp likes players who can play in multiple positions for the most part, it's rare we have specialists bar central defenders and fullbacks.
So who should be buy?
Sessegnon - Covers Left Back and Left Forward
Lloyd Kelly - Covers Left Back and Left Center Half
Brandt - Covers no.8/10 and Left/Right Forward
Hudson-Odoi - Left/Right Forward
and for me that's it, job done.
I'd let Sturridge, Moreno, Lovren, Lallana, Shaqiri, Milner (now this would be more that he may want a last swansong at Leeds if they come up) all leave. Leaving us with a squad as follows;
GK - Alisson, Mignolet
LB - Robertson, Sessegnon, Kelly
LCB - Van Dijk, Kelly
RCB - Gomez, Matip
RB - Alexander-Arnold, Gomez, Fabinho
DM - Fabinho, Henderson, Wijnaldum
CM - Keita, Henderson, Wijnaldum
AM - Oxlade, Brandt, Henderson
LF - Mane, Sessegnon, Hudson-Odoi
CF - Firmino, Brewster, Salah
RF - Salah, Hudson-Odoi, Brandt
Can't really see a weakness with that squad and plenty of minutes for all players.
I'd prefer;The club clearly have massive expectations for Brewster. He is however an 18 year old without a single senior appearance to his name. Werner, while possibly over hyped has been one of the best non-Bayern players in the league for a couple of seasons and a German international. I dont think it is reasonable to avoid looking at players like Werner because of what Brewster may become.
You could apply this logic against giving a chance to any youth player.The club clearly have massive expectations for Brewster. He is however an 18 year old without a single senior appearance to his name. Werner, while possibly over hyped has been one of the best non-Bayern players in the league for a couple of seasons and a German international. I dont think it is reasonable to avoid looking at players like Werner because of what Brewster may become.
Nobody is arguing Brewster should be that player, it's just that Werner shouldn't either. He's neither good enough or the right type, imo.Probably. There are plenty of players who would excite me more than Werner, but it is unlikely that we avoid bringing in another player for the front line because we're ready to have an 18 year old with the same amount of premier league experience as I do to be our #4 for the front 3. Bringing in that additional player should not be seen as a step that will inhibit the development of Brewster.
I don't think it is that black and white. This season (and I missed him off the list) we've moved Mane and/or Salah central and used Origi on the flanks. I think this again will continue next season and is also a viable rotation for Firmino.The club clearly have massive expectations for Brewster. He is however an 18 year old without a single senior appearance to his name. Werner, while possibly over hyped has been one of the best non-Bayern players in the league for a couple of seasons and a German international. I dont think it is reasonable to avoid looking at players like Werner because of what Brewster may become.
I dont think it is accurate to say that minutes that could go to Brewster would go to Werner (or another). Even ignoring possible injuries to any of the front 3, we may see ourselves advancing in domestic cups or just wanting to swap things round to keep players fresh - so moving the front 3 into different roles becomes more of an option and less a need. In addition, if Origi were to stay - do we know which Origi we would see? The one who like a couple of years ago has an impact, or the one we saw in between that people couldnt wait to see the back of?I don't think it is that black and white. This season (and I missed him off the list) we've moved Mane and/or Salah central and used Origi on the flanks. I think this again will continue next season and is also a viable rotation for Firmino.
So long story short, I think the back up to Firmino is actually Salah or Mane, but Brewster gets minutes (end of games, cup games etc.)
What I think ILLOK means is buying Werner means any minutes Brewster would have got will go to Werner (otherwise why buy him?)
p.s. I think Origi may be linked to Hudson-Odoi, if Chelsea refuse to sell and we let him wait out his contract we retain Origi for another year and let him go when Odoi comes in (who is a vastly better player).
I was responding to a person who did that make claim.Nobody is arguing Brewster should be that player, it's just that Werner shouldn't either. He's neither good enough or the right type, imo.
Who? The others have advocated bringing Odoi/Brandt/Sancho in as well.I was responding to a person who did that make claim.
When I see it like this, I'm on board. A goalscoring winger is more of a priority than another centre forward, since Mane and Salah can also play centrally, and Brewster will start to need some minutes next season too.I'd prefer;
CF: Firmino, Mane, Salah, Brewster
Wings: Salah, Mane, Hudson-Odoi/Sancho
Than;
CF: Firmino, Werner, Mane, Salah, Brewster
Wings: Salah, Mane, Werner
If it's a straight choice between adding a CF that can play wide or a wide player allowing Mane and Brewster to play CF more I'd go with the wide player.
If Salah is out for a couple of months we'll struggle to replicate his form regardless of who we sign, simply by virtue of Salah being one of the best forwards on the planet.I don't buy this notion that a winger is more of a priority. We buy the best damn goal scoring option we can get... as the others forwards we have are quite flexible.
To me that is Jovic. Unless you are a freak of a workhorse, mad pressing machine like Firmino... then the primary goal of our forwards is to score. If we need to loan out Brewster to get experience then we do so, but he isn't ready to be anyone's long-term backup if any of our front 3 get injured.
On Hudson-Odoi... he looks great but if Salah is out for a couple months are you confident our goalscoring won't miss a beat? I'm not.