Who would you buy?

[Kenny Dalglish LFC Legend]

Why Klopp apologised to Henderson after Liverpool beat Porto

The Reds boss saluted Henderson's performance in the 2-0 win against Porto in the Champions League and offered him a humorous apology

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

I know people who weren't there are trying to second guess Klopps words and put different meanings to it but the journalists there (who get to hear the questions he responds to which, for some bizarre reason, never get put in the articles) all seem unified in understanding that Jurgen has been playing Henderson as a number 6 despite Jordan's wishes to play further forward.

Ok. I'm not arguing that Jordan wanted to play further forward and Klopp has played as a 6.

I'm saying Klopp played as a 6 for the last 18 mths as he was the best we had and not because he didn't think Jordan could play further forward.
IMO Jordan is now playing further forward because Klopp now trust Fsb in the 6 role on his own not because Klopp has suddenly seen the light that Jordan can play further forward.

 

[Limiescouse]

The point I’m making is not Wilson is good enough for LFC, or Wilson should get starts. It’s that his Derby form gives Klopp a problem. That’s it.

What you actually said was that he would need to get some games for it to qualify as being given a chance. And not getting those games would send a bad signal to other kids. The latter is not a real problem, because it is predicated on an unreasonable expectation.

If Wilson came in and tore everyone a new one in training and still didnt get games, because Klopp was distrusting of young kids, then he would have reason to complain and it would be a warning sign to other kids (those stories travel). But we are not remotely there, and does anyone really think that is how Klopp operates?

All of which Klopp has tried out on the pitch. You can't know what someone can deliver on the pitch purely from training. And this comes back to mascots original point. Klopp can't say "train hard and you'll get your chance" if he isn't actually giving players chances. As I said I think you are wrong and Klopp will give Wilson chances on the pitch for us before ending his time here

Players get picked in a meritocratic manner. The manager does not just throw players out there blind to see what happens. He know the players, he sees them every day, and the ones he puts out are the ones who show him they are the best options. So a kid, even a talented one, can train as hard as he likes, but if there are 5 or 6 players in his position showing more than he him then he isn’t going to play.

I am also trying to not get frustrated at what is now a persistent shooting down of arguments I haven’t made. I have not once claimed that Wilson will not games. In fact, I have not made any judgment on how he will fare. All I have done is argue that it is naïve and misguided to think a manager has to give kids games to have been seen to have given them a “chance.”

Jurgen has been playing Henderson as a number 6 despite Jordan's wishes to play further forward.

No one is denying that. That does not mean that Klopp had previously viewed him as a player who could only play 6 or even was best at 6 as you have been claiming. What he has done is view him as someone who it was best for LIVERPOOL if he played at 6. Now Fab is settled, a slow process, the situation is seemingly different.

 

[Red over the water]

Wilson's form at Derby has given Klopp food for thought, but I wouldn't class it as a problem, as such. Arguably the player can come in and be a squad member for us, and if he kicks on from that, great. But on the other hand, maybe Klopp will place more of an emphasis on other qualities he wants e.g. speed and physicality. At that point Wilson's form for Derby should at least mean we will get a reasonable fee for him, and it will be up to the player to carve out a good career for himself.

Generally speaking, for an elite team that is battling for the Prem and the CL, we have good form for giving young players a chance. It is rarified air at our level, so most won't make it, even good ones. You have to be better than good.

Will it mean that the well will start to dry up in terms of young talent who will come here? Not for me it won't. It's not just about working hard. That is a prerequisite. But it is working hard and also having the talent and skillset the manager needs for the first team set up.

Wilson has worked hard and done everything required of him. No complaints there at all.
Does he have what the manager needs for the first team set up?
We'll find out soon enough! If he does, he stays here. If he doesn't, we sell him.

We're Top Gun now. Only the best of the best youngsters need apply.

 

[CymruRed]

Wilson's form at Derby has given Klopp food for thought, but I wouldn't class it as a problem, as such. Arguably the player can come in and be a squad member for us, and if he kicks on from that, great. But on the other hand, maybe Klopp will place more of an emphasis on other qualities he wants e.g. speed and physicality. At that point Wilson's form for Derby should at least mean we will get a reasonable fee for him, and it will be up to the player to carve out a good career for himself.

Generally speaking, for an elite team that is battling for the Prem and the CL, we have good form for giving young players a chance. It is rarified air at our level, so most won't make it, even good ones. You have to be better than good.

Will it mean that the well will start to dry up in terms of young talent who will come here? Not for me it won't. It's not just about working hard. That is a prerequisite. But it is working hard and also having the talent and skillset the manager needs for the first team set up.

Wilson has worked hard and done everything required of him. No complaints there at all.
Does he have what the manager needs for the first team set up?
We'll find out soon enough! If he does, he stays here. If he doesn't, we sell him.

We're Top Gun now. Only the best of the best youngsters need apply.

I don't think Wilson was coming back next season,regardless of how well he was doing at Derby this season.Having a great season in the Championship is one thing,doing it in the Premiership on a regular basis is another.

I'm sure reports mentioned that we had a deal set up with Leicester City to loan him to them for the whole of next season,so Klopp could have a real look at him in the Prem but seeing as Rodgers has now taken over,Klopps pulled the plug on the deal,as he didn't like the way he took young players on loan in the past at Celtic and then let them rot in the reserves or on the bench,without giving them any game time.

 

[Jamie91]

Next season we should be looking to compete in all competitions. I think we will see a fee outgoings with improved options coming in.

Alisson
Mignolet

TAA
Gomez (3rd choice cb too)

VVD
De Light (70mil)
Matip

Robertson
Sessegnon (30mil)

Fabinho
Henderson
Wijnaldum
Keita
Milner
Ox



Shaqiri
Brandt (30mil)

Salah
Brewster

Firmino
Werner (30mil)

Mane
Origi

Looking a bit light at CB but include Gomez along with Fabinho as cover.
160 mil output but we should receive around 70mil for Lallana,Sturridge,Lovren and Clyne.

 

[Scott Jones]

TBF,£25m Lovren and £15m each for Clyne,Sturridge and Lallana doesn't seem too far away.

 

[MW2833]

TBF,£25m Lovren and £15m each for Clyne,Sturridge and Lallana doesn't seem too far away.

Sturridge is going on a free
However, I deleted my post because I know Edwards will somehow find a way to get £100 million plus for those players.

 

[Iluvatar]

I agree with @ILLOK from another thread after thinking about it. Why would we go for Werner and stunt Brewsters route to the 1st team? Firmino is nigh on indestructible.. In fact our front 3 rarely get injured. So Brewster will get the right amount of minutes to allow for small breaks.

Our 1st team is basically there or there about, I can't see a single position we need to significantly upgrade so what are we looking for?

Has to be a left back for backup/rotation with Robertson, a wide goal scoring player who can rotate with Mane/Salah and then depth for the no.10/8 role.

I also think Klopp likes players who can play in multiple positions for the most part, it's rare we have specialists bar central defenders and fullbacks.

So who should be buy?

Sessegnon - Covers Left Back and Left Forward
Lloyd Kelly - Covers Left Back and Left Center Half
Brandt - Covers no.8/10 and Left/Right Forward
Hudson-Odoi - Left/Right Forward

and for me that's it, job done.

I'd let Sturridge, Moreno, Lovren, Lallana, Shaqiri, Milner (now this would be more that he may want a last swansong at Leeds if they come up) all leave. Leaving us with a squad as follows;

GK - Alisson, Mignolet
LB - Robertson, Sessegnon, Kelly
LCB - Van Dijk, Kelly
RCB - Gomez, Matip
RB - Alexander-Arnold, Gomez, Fabinho
DM - Fabinho, Henderson, Wijnaldum
CM - Keita, Henderson, Wijnaldum
AM - Oxlade, Brandt, Henderson
LF - Mane, Sessegnon, Hudson-Odoi
CF - Firmino, Brewster, Salah
RF - Salah, Hudson-Odoi, Brandt

Can't really see a weakness with that squad and plenty of minutes for all players.

 

[Limiescouse]

The club clearly have massive expectations for Brewster. He is however an 18 year old without a single senior appearance to his name. Werner, while possibly over hyped has been one of the best non-Bayern players in the league for a couple of seasons and a German international. I dont think it is reasonable to avoid looking at players like Werner because of what Brewster may become.

 

[Anfield rd Dreamer]

I agree with @ILLOK from another thread after thinking about it. Why would we go for Werner and stunt Brewsters route to the 1st team? Firmino is nigh on indestructible.. In fact our front 3 rarely get injured. So Brewster will get the right amount of minutes to allow for small breaks.

Our 1st team is basically there or there about, I can't see a single position we need to significantly upgrade so what are we looking for?

Has to be a left back for backup/rotation with Robertson, a wide goal scoring player who can rotate with Mane/Salah and then depth for the no.10/8 role.

I also think Klopp likes players who can play in multiple positions for the most part, it's rare we have specialists bar central defenders and fullbacks.

So who should be buy?

Sessegnon - Covers Left Back and Left Forward
Lloyd Kelly - Covers Left Back and Left Center Half
Brandt - Covers no.8/10 and Left/Right Forward
Hudson-Odoi - Left/Right Forward

and for me that's it, job done.

I'd let Sturridge, Moreno, Lovren, Lallana, Shaqiri, Milner (now this would be more that he may want a last swansong at Leeds if they come up) all leave. Leaving us with a squad as follows;

GK - Alisson, Mignolet
LB - Robertson, Sessegnon, Kelly
LCB - Van Dijk, Kelly
RCB - Gomez, Matip
RB - Alexander-Arnold, Gomez, Fabinho
DM - Fabinho, Henderson, Wijnaldum
CM - Keita, Henderson, Wijnaldum
AM - Oxlade, Brandt, Henderson
LF - Mane, Sessegnon, Hudson-Odoi
CF - Firmino, Brewster, Salah
RF - Salah, Hudson-Odoi, Brandt

Can't really see a weakness with that squad and plenty of minutes for all players.

I agree with a lot of your thinking (especially as Mane and Salah are also options centrally) however I think Sessegnon and Hudson-Odoi or Sancho would be enough.

I'd buy a CB if Lovren and/or Matip want to move on but not Kelly, someone better suited to be 3rd choice challenging Gomez for 2nd choice.

I'd keep Shaqiri for now and use Wilson to flesh out our options too.

 

[Anfield rd Dreamer]

The club clearly have massive expectations for Brewster. He is however an 18 year old without a single senior appearance to his name. Werner, while possibly over hyped has been one of the best non-Bayern players in the league for a couple of seasons and a German international. I dont think it is reasonable to avoid looking at players like Werner because of what Brewster may become.

I'd prefer;

CF: Firmino, Mane, Salah, Brewster
Wings: Salah, Mane, Hudson-Odoi/Sancho

Than;
CF: Firmino, Werner, Mane, Salah, Brewster
Wings: Salah, Mane, Werner

If it's a straight choice between adding a CF that can play wide or a wide player allowing Mane and Brewster to play CF more I'd go with the wide player.

 

[ILLOK]

The club clearly have massive expectations for Brewster. He is however an 18 year old without a single senior appearance to his name. Werner, while possibly over hyped has been one of the best non-Bayern players in the league for a couple of seasons and a German international. I dont think it is reasonable to avoid looking at players like Werner because of what Brewster may become.

You could apply this logic against giving a chance to any youth player.

If the club think Brewster is good enough we shouldn't be buying a player of the exact same style, not a player like Werner who definitely isn't a significantly better talent.

Hss Werner been one of the best non-Bayern in the previous two seasons? 13 goals last season and 14 so far this. Decent return but nothing special for a player who isn't too impressive in the build up phase.

He had a great 16/17 but since then he doesn't appear to have pulled up any trees. Looking at the players who are putting up similar numbers (Kramaric, Poulson, Haller etc) I don't think we'd want any of them either.

 

[Limiescouse]

Probably. There are plenty of players who would excite me more than Werner, but it is unlikely that we avoid bringing in another player for the front line because we're ready to have an 18 year old with the same amount of premier league experience as I do to be our #4 for the front 3. Bringing in that additional player should not be seen as a step that will inhibit the development of Brewster.

 

[ILLOK]

Probably. There are plenty of players who would excite me more than Werner, but it is unlikely that we avoid bringing in another player for the front line because we're ready to have an 18 year old with the same amount of premier league experience as I do to be our #4 for the front 3. Bringing in that additional player should not be seen as a step that will inhibit the development of Brewster.

Nobody is arguing Brewster should be that player, it's just that Werner shouldn't either. He's neither good enough or the right type, imo.

 

[GTA_G20]

Im crushed when I read Frankfurt excercised the option to sign Jovic from Porto

 

[Iluvatar]

The club clearly have massive expectations for Brewster. He is however an 18 year old without a single senior appearance to his name. Werner, while possibly over hyped has been one of the best non-Bayern players in the league for a couple of seasons and a German international. I dont think it is reasonable to avoid looking at players like Werner because of what Brewster may become.

I don't think it is that black and white. This season (and I missed him off the list) we've moved Mane and/or Salah central and used Origi on the flanks. I think this again will continue next season and is also a viable rotation for Firmino.

So long story short, I think the back up to Firmino is actually Salah or Mane, but Brewster gets minutes (end of games, cup games etc.)

What I think ILLOK means is buying Werner means any minutes Brewster would have got will go to Werner (otherwise why buy him?)

p.s. I think Origi may be linked to Hudson-Odoi, if Chelsea refuse to sell and we let him wait out his contract we retain Origi for another year and let him go when Odoi comes in (who is a vastly better player).

 

[redfanman]

I don't think it is that black and white. This season (and I missed him off the list) we've moved Mane and/or Salah central and used Origi on the flanks. I think this again will continue next season and is also a viable rotation for Firmino.

So long story short, I think the back up to Firmino is actually Salah or Mane, but Brewster gets minutes (end of games, cup games etc.)

What I think ILLOK means is buying Werner means any minutes Brewster would have got will go to Werner (otherwise why buy him?)

p.s. I think Origi may be linked to Hudson-Odoi, if Chelsea refuse to sell and we let him wait out his contract we retain Origi for another year and let him go when Odoi comes in (who is a vastly better player).

I dont think it is accurate to say that minutes that could go to Brewster would go to Werner (or another). Even ignoring possible injuries to any of the front 3, we may see ourselves advancing in domestic cups or just wanting to swap things round to keep players fresh - so moving the front 3 into different roles becomes more of an option and less a need. In addition, if Origi were to stay - do we know which Origi we would see? The one who like a couple of years ago has an impact, or the one we saw in between that people couldnt wait to see the back of?

 

[Limiescouse]

Nobody is arguing Brewster should be that player, it's just that Werner shouldn't either. He's neither good enough or the right type, imo.

I was responding to a person who did that make claim.

 

[ILLOK]

I was responding to a person who did that make claim.

Who? The others have advocated bringing Odoi/Brandt/Sancho in as well.

Salah and Mane can cover centre forward better than Firmino/Origi/Chamberlain/Shaqiri can cover the wide areas, so it would make more sense to prioritise a wide player. A player who can drbble well would be ideal, that's not Werner (or Brewster for that matter).

 

[Red over the water]

I'd prefer;

CF: Firmino, Mane, Salah, Brewster
Wings: Salah, Mane, Hudson-Odoi/Sancho

Than;
CF: Firmino, Werner, Mane, Salah, Brewster
Wings: Salah, Mane, Werner

If it's a straight choice between adding a CF that can play wide or a wide player allowing Mane and Brewster to play CF more I'd go with the wide player.

When I see it like this, I'm on board. A goalscoring winger is more of a priority than another centre forward, since Mane and Salah can also play centrally, and Brewster will start to need some minutes next season too.

If not Hudson-Odoi or Sancho, perhaps Bergwijn? Or maybe Neres?

 

[JustHitMyHead]

I don't buy this notion that a winger is more of a priority. We buy the best damn goal scoring option we can get... as the others forwards we have are quite flexible.

To me that is Jovic. Unless you are a freak of a workhorse, mad pressing machine like Firmino... then the primary goal of our forwards is to score. If we need to loan out Brewster to get experience then we do so, but he isn't ready to be anyone's long-term backup if any of our front 3 get injured.

On Hudson-Odoi... he looks great but if Salah is out for a couple months are you confident our goalscoring won't miss a beat? I'm not.

 

[ILLOK]

I don't buy this notion that a winger is more of a priority. We buy the best damn goal scoring option we can get... as the others forwards we have are quite flexible.

To me that is Jovic. Unless you are a freak of a workhorse, mad pressing machine like Firmino... then the primary goal of our forwards is to score. If we need to loan out Brewster to get experience then we do so, but he isn't ready to be anyone's long-term backup if any of our front 3 get injured.

On Hudson-Odoi... he looks great but if Salah is out for a couple months are you confident our goalscoring won't miss a beat? I'm not.

If Salah is out for a couple of months we'll struggle to replicate his form regardless of who we sign, simply by virtue of Salah being one of the best forwards on the planet.

It wasn't long ago before Gomez and Trent weren't 'ready', yet now they're first picks in what is a world class side. It's not necessary to be so conservative young players if they're good enough.

Everybody wants young players to come through but nobody wants to give them a proper chance. We should roll the dice on Brewster.

 

[Anfield rd Dreamer]

I don't buy this notion that a winger is more of a priority. We buy the best damn goal scoring option we can get... as the others forwards we have are quite flexible.

To me that is Jovic. Unless you are a freak of a workhorse, mad pressing machine like Firmino... then the primary goal of our forwards is to score. If we need to loan out Brewster to get experience then we do so, but he isn't ready to be anyone's long-term backup if any of our front 3 get injured.

On Hudson-Odoi... he looks great but if Salah is out for a couple months are you confident our goalscoring won't miss a beat? I'm not.

Hudson-Odoi would do better covering for Salah than anyone else currently in our side. Hudson-Odoi, Firmino, Mane would be better than Mane, Jovic, Firmino.

 

[MW2833]

Hasn't Jovic just signed for Frankfurt?

 

[Zoran]

Hasn't Jovic just signed for Frankfurt?

Eintracht have activated the clause to sign him on permanent basis, yes. Doesn't necessarily mean he'll stay this summer, if there are no issues with that?

 

[redfanman]

I don't buy this notion that a winger is more of a priority. We buy the best damn goal scoring option we can get... as the others forwards we have are quite flexible.

To me that is Jovic. Unless you are a freak of a workhorse, mad pressing machine like Firmino... then the primary goal of our forwards is to score. If we need to loan out Brewster to get experience then we do so, but he isn't ready to be anyone's long-term backup if any of our front 3 get injured.

On Hudson-Odoi... he looks great but if Salah is out for a couple months are you confident our goalscoring won't miss a beat? I'm not.

If we lose Mane or Salah to injury, we lose more than just the goals they score and I don't think they are so easily replaced within the current squad, nor from bringing in some one just because they score goals.

 

[JustHitMyHead]

Hudson-Odoi would do better covering for Salah than anyone else currently in our side. Hudson-Odoi, Firmino, Mane would be better than Mane, Jovic, Firmino.

Better at what? At keeping play similar? We are comparing someone who has been among the top few elite strikers in Europe for a season and a half, with someone who has impressed in a handful of games versus cherry-picked weaker competition.

Not that Hudson-Odoi isn't going to become a great player in the future but Chelsea is going to prefer to sell abroad and he still has lots to learn about playing against better competition. For example, as the only top team he has played against, we were able to nullify his game simply by giving him less space.

Frankly, if either or both were available then we should do all we can do to get them. But I think Jovic will be off to Real Madrid / Barcelona while Hudson-Odoi will be sold outside England.

 

[Anfield rd Dreamer]

Better at what? At keeping play similar? We are comparing someone who has been among the top few elite strikers in Europe for a season and a half, with someone who has impressed in a handful of games versus cherry-picked weaker competition.

Not that Hudson-Odoi isn't going to become a great player in the future but Chelsea is going to prefer to sell abroad and he still has lots to learn about playing against better competition. For example, as the only top team he has played against, we were able to nullify his game simply by giving him less space.

Frankly, if either or both were available then we should do all we can do to get them. But I think Jovic will be off to Real Madrid / Barcelona while Hudson-Odoi will be sold outside England.

Using Hudson-Odoi as an example but yeah. It's not just about quality it's about us playing in a very specific way. Firmino does a very specific job in the middle of our front 3, it's not just about scoring goals. It's why Mane is next choice in that position over Origi, Sturridge and even Salah. Because Mane does the closest "Firmino impression"! Likewise Firmino, as good as he is, is awful at trying to replicate the relentless speed and constant danger cutting in from wide areas that we need from Salah and Mane. Our whole starting 11 performs certain ways that mesh and fit in together. You change the roles of the front 3 and it changes what the rest of the players roles are too. They don't play in isolation.

 

[Kopstar]

Eintracht have activated the clause to sign him on permanent basis, yes. Doesn't necessarily mean he'll stay this summer, if there are no issues with that?

None for FIFA.

 

[RedForever2014]

Whilst you'd never expect to have 20 same level rotatable outfield options, we probably have 15 (including a fit Oxlade) from whom a best 11 of a similar level could be picked.

This includes TAA, Gomez, VVD, Matip, Lovren, Robertson, Fab, Gini, Hendo, Milner, Keita, Oxlade, Bobby, Mo, Mane.

Obviously Milner is cracking on and three centre backs are injury prone, but the other issues remain a lack of full back options, the lack of a creative midfielder, and the lack of any rotation up top.

The main issue is that we can't rotate the front three without a significant drop off.

It would have been handy just now to have more than Origi in this respect.