ILLOK
In the Danger Zone.
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2009
- Messages
- 15,743
Huh?I find it interesting that neither Matip, nor Wijnaldum are getting a new contract
Both of them will definitely get an offer.
Huh?I find it interesting that neither Matip, nor Wijnaldum are getting a new contract
I haven't read literally any rumour about them being offered new contracts - even Origi was unreliably rumoured to be getting an offer from the club. Maybe I'm reading too much into it but Klopp and Edwards usually like to tie down players earlier. Judging by their performances with respect to the role they have in this squad, I'd be surprised if these two didn't get them but I also think that Matip is more likely to run down his current contract and play regularly somewhere else. Again, it's just a feeling, we'll see.Huh?
Both of them will definitely get an offer.
Gini has two years left to run and has played 42 times this season, it is inconceivable that he doesn't get offered a new deal but there's no rush.I haven't read literally any rumour about them being offered new contracts - even Origi was unreliably rumoured to be getting an offer from the club. Maybe I'm reading too much into it but Klopp and Edwards usually like to tie down players earlier. Judging by their performances with respect to the role they have in this squad, I'd be surprised if these two didn't get them but I also think that Matip is more likely to run down his current contract and play regularly somewhere else. Again, it's just a feeling, we'll see.
Mane, Salah and Keita are playing in the Africa Cup of Nations this summer so that might take its toll as well.I think it's clear that Origi and Sturridge offer no real genuine rotation up front, at anywhere near the level of the first choice front three.
For all the protestations about forward players not wanting to come to be a bench player, and the front three wanting to start most matches, we simply have to ensure we aren't so heavily reliant on their fitness next season in order to challenge.
If we continue to play the front three as much as we have, they will start to experience injuries. Muscle tears and tendon/ligament strains come from not getting enough recovery and rest.
Hopefully we don't accrue a number of further injuries during that three matches in six days sequence.
City have six genuine options to rotate forwards and still field a side of an extremely high level, we need to ensure we have a situation nearer to that than we currently have.
If we do this partly by signing a quality 4th forward and partly by swapping out Lallana for a versatile midfielder come forward (Fekir type) that's fine by me.
For me the squad needs to be at least 20 senior outfield players. The squad is arguably 22 senior outfield players, including Grujic (given that he's valued at £35m apparently and a definite option to bring back) and Clyne. Ings is subject to a compulsory purchase contract, so is already gone.
You'd expect 8 of those to be defenders and 12 to be midfielders/forwards.
Sturridge and Moreno should be certain departures, they are very little use, whilst Origi and Lallana should also really be on their way. You also can't see Clyne staying, as he wouldn't play much ahead of TAA and Gomez (or even Milner). It seems that the club will cash in on Grujic, which is a shame as he looks like a perfect versatile midfielder in the making. Midfield is a little overloaded though, so you can make sense of his departure.
I doubt we'll sell Shaqiri after just one season, and I think Milner should be kept for the final year of his contract due to his experience and versatility.
Then of course there's the centre back issue to consider, given the overreliance on VVD and the injury prone nature of three of them.
If the six aforementioned players leave (Sturridge, Moreno, Origi, Lallana, Clyne, Grujic), that leaves a senior outfield squad of 16 - TAA, Gomez, Matip, Lovren, VVD, Robertson, Hendo, Fab, Gini, Milner, Keita, Shaqiri, Oxlade, Bobby, Mo, Mane.
To me that looks a couple of defenders short, a forward short and a versatile midfielder come forward short.
Perhaps those positions can be filled by a left sided defender who can play left centre back and left back, an attacking midfielder who can play as a forward, a 4th quality forward, and a left sided player who can play full back or left forward.
I'm not sure if Fekir or Sessignon fit the bill for two of those slots, but I'd love to see players like them arrive along with a left sided defender proper (don't know of any myself) and whatever quality 4th forward the club has identified.
Agreed, but I think the secret to this depth is buying flexibility.For all the protestations about forward players not wanting to come to be a bench player, and the front three wanting to start most matches, we simply have to ensure we aren't so heavily reliant on their fitness next season in order to challenge.
I dont think they can, at least not without changing the entire shape and dynamics. When we play 3 up top, we're essentially playing with 3 strikers. Mane's first today is a great example. Not only was Mane's positioning that of a striker, but it is that tendency to vacate the wing that gives Robbo the space to contribute so much in the final third.Agreed, but I think the secret to this depth is buying flexibility.
Shaqiri and Oxlade-Chamberlain can both play in midfield or drop into the wide forward positions. I think we need another genuine forward, like Hudson-Adoi, and someone like Brandt or Fekir, who can either.
And Bobby, Fab and Alisson will be playing Copa America too.Mane, Salah and Keita are playing in the Africa Cup of Nations this summer so that might take its toll as well.
Versatility is very useful, as long as the quality is there too. Shaqiri for me just can't play front three anywhere near good enough due to a lack of pace, yet there are better options in attacking midfield. Decent squad player, but if we were ranking the outfield squad 1-20 he'd ideally be right at the lower end of it (19th or 20th, rather than 15th or 16th as at present).Agreed, but I think the secret to this depth is buying flexibility.
Shaqiri and Oxlade-Chamberlain can both play in midfield or drop into the wide forward positions. I think we need another genuine forward, like Hudson-Adoi, and someone like Brandt or Fekir, who can either.
Poor chap Icardi. Even you have removed him from your wish list.....
So maybe, for me, Werner, Brandt/Fraser, de Ligt is about all I'd do. If the opportunity was there to get someone like Havertz you'd have to take it. We'd certainly have the funds to do that if the chance arose.
It perhaps doesn't need this level of thought to identify who should be sold and replaced, but for me a starting point in the analysis is to launch a Top of the Klopps (could also be Top of the Kops):
In my mind I split the outfield squad into two four groups, within an overall ranking of players 1-20.
The first group is our best players for whom there are no like for like replacements. As such they always play except in rare circumstances.
1. VVD - easily our most important player. The captain of the back 6 (including the midfield number 6). Can rarely, if ever be rested.
2=. Mane, Salah, Bobby. Our front three unit take the next three spots.
5. Robertson. Our best full back, great offensively and defensively, for whom there is no left footed like for like alternative.
Then we have the five who for me currently make up the rest of our best 11. The difference from those above, is that these players can be rested and those who'll appear in positions 11-15 can come into their slots without the level dropping too much, if at all.
6. Fabinho - our best midfielder.
7. Gini - our next best midfielder.
8. Hendo - some technical limitations but when fit and on form a quality player and captain.
9. Gomez - our best defender after VVD and Andy. His best position is centre back, but he's a better right back than TAA in my view.
10. Matip - we'll see how long it lasts, but for me he's really impressed since January and deserves his slot in our best defence.
The above outfield 10 is the side I'd start a CL final with, with Gomez at right back.
Then we have five players who are top quality and very close to those in the 6 - 10 positions. You'd field any of those in 11-15 against a top side.
11. Milner - the major concern is when father time will take his legs, but for now he's the first off the bench in either midfield or to cover full back and very rotatable, even against good sides.
12. Keita - becoming the player we hoped we had signed, will perhaps take Hendo's place in the best 11 soon.
13. Oxlade - top quality before his injury but still to prove he's the same after it. At the very least will be a top quality squad player.
14. TAA - drives me nuts at times with his sloppiness and slow thinking. Better offensively than defensively, needs to improve the latter.
15. Lovren - for all his brain farts he's a quality centre back.
Then we have players who for me lack something, wouldn't play that often, or would only play in emergencies.
16. Shaqiri - not quick enough to be an effective part of the front three, and not good enough to get picked ahead of any of the midfielders.
17. Origi - tall, works hard, good attitude, can score, but is not a viable regular rotation option for the front three.
18. Lallana - injury prone, has had his day, wouldn't play much when those in positions 6-15 are available.
19. Sturridge - he's done at our level.
20. Moreno - he never was our level in truth.
IMO there should be the following objectives in improving this squad for next season.
1. Ensure there are viable options to rotate and rest those in positions 1-5. If they play as much next season as this, we'll start to see injuries problems materialise.
2. Ensure the central defence has enough reliable depth, so we don't have the injury crisis we had December/February.
3. Have rotatable full back cover.
4. Improve the forward group so we can bring quality game changers off the bench and rotate the front three more.
5. Improve the quality of positions 16-20, by signing players for positions 1-15 and pushing players into positions 16-20 (like Milner).
Obviously we have to hope that nobody in positions 1-14 gets taken from us, but everyone in positions 15-20 could potentially be sold.
Sturridge and Moreno are gone for free (with £200k a week wages saved between them, £10m a year), and I'd definitely sell Lallana given his age, injury issues and that others are better in his department. We should get £20m for him.
I think Grujic could be a top midfielder in years to come, but if the club wants the money now we should get £35m. Clyne should fetch £15m. I'd also cash in on Origi £20m. Plus Ings has also been sold.
I'd consider selling Shaqiri if we need to, although for me he's the perfect 16-20 level player for what we paid. Plus Lovren if we're going for a centre back.
We really need four players, two attacking midfield come forwards and two defenders.
Personally I'd go in for De Ligt, who I believe would not only be rock solid alongside VVD, but also a viable rotation option for VVD in a way none of Gomez, Matip or Lovren are. Gomez would be the alternative for TAA at right back (along with Milner and Fabinho) and third best centre back.
Left back is a conundrum, Andy is so good, but we need a left footed alternative, or an ambidextrous one.
A quality creative 10 come forward, plus a quick wide forward come striker, would add the depth there.
TAA, VVD, De Ligt, Gomez, Matip, Robertson, new full back
Fab, Hendo, Gini, Milner, Keita, Oxlade, new attacking mid
Bobby, Mo, Mane, new forward, Shaqiri, Brewster
Moreno, Sturridge, Origi, Lallana, Lovren would go along with Clyne, Ings, Grujic (loan maybe).
Four quality players would be signed and one youngster promoted if they're deemed good enough to play PL as and when required.
It perhaps doesn't need this level of thought to identify who should be sold and replaced, but for me a starting point in the analysis is to launch a Top of the Klopps (could also be Top of the Kops):
In my mind I split the outfield squad into two four groups, within an overall ranking of players 1-20.
The first group is our best players for whom there are no like for like replacements. As such they always play except in rare circumstances.
1. VVD - easily our most important player. The captain of the back 6 (including the midfield number 6). Can rarely, if ever be rested.
2=. Mane, Salah, Bobby. Our front three unit take the next three spots.
5. Robertson. Our best full back, great offensively and defensively, for whom there is no left footed like for like alternative.
Then we have the five who for me currently make up the rest of our best 11. The difference from those above, is that these players can be rested and those who'll appear in positions 11-15 can come into their slots without the level dropping too much, if at all.
6. Fabinho - our best midfielder.
7. Gini - our next best midfielder.
8. Hendo - some technical limitations but when fit and on form a quality player and captain.
9. Gomez - our best defender after VVD and Andy. His best position is centre back, but he's a better right back than TAA in my view.
10. Matip - we'll see how long it lasts, but for me he's really impressed since January and deserves his slot in our best defence.
The above outfield 10 is the side I'd start a CL final with, with Gomez at right back.
Then we have five players who are top quality and very close to those in the 6 - 10 positions. You'd field any of those in 11-15 against a top side.
11. Milner - the major concern is when father time will take his legs, but for now he's the first off the bench in either midfield or to cover full back and very rotatable, even against good sides.
12. Keita - becoming the player we hoped we had signed, will perhaps take Hendo's place in the best 11 soon.
13. Oxlade - top quality before his injury but still to prove he's the same after it. At the very least will be a top quality squad player.
14. TAA - drives me nuts at times with his sloppiness and slow thinking. Better offensively than defensively, needs to improve the latter.
15. Lovren - for all his brain farts he's a quality centre back.
Then we have players who for me lack something, wouldn't play that often, or would only play in emergencies.
16. Shaqiri - not quick enough to be an effective part of the front three, and not good enough to get picked ahead of any of the midfielders.
17. Origi - tall, works hard, good attitude, can score, but is not a viable regular rotation option for the front three.
18. Lallana - injury prone, has had his day, wouldn't play much when those in positions 6-15 are available.
19. Sturridge - he's done at our level.
20. Moreno - he never was our level in truth.
IMO there should be the following objectives in improving this squad for next season.
1. Ensure there are viable options to rotate and rest those in positions 1-5. If they play as much next season as this, we'll start to see injuries problems materialise.
2. Ensure the central defence has enough reliable depth, so we don't have the injury crisis we had December/February.
3. Have rotatable full back cover.
4. Improve the forward group so we can bring quality game changers off the bench and rotate the front three more.
5. Improve the quality of positions 16-20, by signing players for positions 1-15 and pushing players into positions 16-20 (like Milner).
Obviously we have to hope that nobody in positions 1-14 gets taken from us, but everyone in positions 15-20 could potentially be sold.
Sturridge and Moreno are gone for free (with £200k a week wages saved between them, £10m a year), and I'd definitely sell Lallana given his age, injury issues and that others are better in his department. We should get £20m for him.
I think Grujic could be a top midfielder in years to come, but if the club wants the money now we should get £35m. Clyne should fetch £15m. I'd also cash in on Origi £20m. Plus Ings has also been sold.
I'd consider selling Shaqiri if we need to, although for me he's the perfect 16-20 level player for what we paid. Plus Lovren if we're going for a centre back.
We really need four players, two attacking midfield come forwards and two defenders.
Personally I'd go in for De Ligt, who I believe would not only be rock solid alongside VVD, but also a viable rotation option for VVD in a way none of Gomez, Matip or Lovren are. Gomez would be the alternative for TAA at right back (along with Milner and Fabinho) and third best centre back.
Left back is a conundrum, Andy is so good, but we need a left footed alternative, or an ambidextrous one.
A quality creative 10 come forward, plus a quick wide forward come striker, would add the depth there.
TAA, VVD, De Ligt, Gomez, Matip, Robertson, new full back
Fab, Hendo, Gini, Milner, Keita, Oxlade, new attacking mid
Bobby, Mo, Mane, new forward, Shaqiri, Brewster
Moreno, Sturridge, Origi, Lallana, Lovren would go along with Clyne, Ings, Grujic (loan maybe).
Four quality players would be signed and one youngster promoted if they're deemed good enough to play PL as and when required.
De LigtDe Ligt
Jamal Lewis
Brandt/ Depay
Insigne
Formidable squad
I've no idea how you pronounce that, but in my head it's the sort of sound a Cornish farmer makes, "Oo-Ar" lolDe Ligt
Sessegnon
Pepe
Aouar
If we do sign him, that’s what we should call him then! Works for me.I've no idea how you pronounce that, but in my head it's the sort of sound a Cornish farmer makes, "Oo-Ar" lol
O Aaa just a little bit O Aaa scores one more..If we do sign him, that’s what we should call him then! Works for me.
Close.I've no idea how you pronounce that, but in my head it's the sort of sound a Cornish farmer makes, "Oo-Ar" lol
Always thought she said "all in all...." .Close.
If you listen to Air’s song All I Need, Beth Hirsch’s “aah-oo-aah” is pretty close to how Aouar’s name should be pronounced.
Now that could be turned into a terrace chant...
Not the slaphead from Porto, I hope.My own signings would be
Pepe
Brandt
Sessegnon
Wan-Bissaka
De Ligt
No, Nicolas Pepe who plays for LilleNot the slaphead from Porto, I hope.
Yes, for sure, the Barca game emphasised the real need for a clinical poacher up top.Most important thing in the summer will be to bring in a fourth quality attacker with goals in him. Preferably a CF or another speedy (left) winger.
Our Front3 were very lucky with injuries and form this season. Very likely that this won’t be the case next season.
Personally I would give up the hope of winning trophies if the only change in our attack would be Brewster for Sturridge next season.