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Who would you buy?

RedForever2014

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Mar 27, 2014
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Whether or not we win none, one, or both the CL or PL, we've got to look to improve the squad.

Next season we need to have 20 outfield senior players, of whom those at the lower end of the squad are capable of playing more than those currently here can, without results being at risk.

VVD, the front three and Robertson will need more rotation than has been possible this season. In fact, they might be more injury prone next season without it.

We also need more forwards who can play regularly, from the start of matches, at a good enough level. The cameos from Sturridge and Origi this season have been welcome, but they are not enough.

Moreno and Sturridge 100% need to go, it would be extremely concerning to see either given a new contract to save buying someone. Lallana can raise a few quid and is of little use anymore given other players we have, and last night I finally lost patience with Lovren and think we should cash in on him too. There is a debate to be had around Origi, who would fetch a decent fee, but who for me wouldn't be the right level if one of the front three had a long term injury.

The level of any centre back signed can be debated. Personally I'd go for another rock so VVD can be rested, but there's a case for a left footer who can cover left back. A couple of quality versatile attacking midfielders come forwards are a must.

It does seem that some believe that because we can't find someone like Bobby we shouldn't sign anyone at all. In fact, that Bobby has to play all the time because our system demands it.

My view on that is that the system with Bobby, Mo and Mane in it, who as a three are much greater than the sum of the parts, is one part of our strategy to compete.

But I also believe that when, as will happen, you can't field that unit, you rely on quality, even if more individual and less joined up, to win matches.

We'll never find another Bobby, but we can sign a quality forward whose individual quality would enable us to win matches when Bobby isn't used.

In short, by all means have a system, but also have the option to beat teams based on the quality in your side. Our current forward back ups don't offer that other than in cameos. If the front three suffered injuries, that wouldn't be enough.
 

Nikola

"Oh, history writer, don't close the pages yet!"
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I thought Liverpool would be able to raise a few quid for Lallana but the more the season progressed, the less I was convinced about it. Always some "minor" injury to keep him away from the match squad for prolonged periods. I think that the best the club can hope for is to find someone who will take him on loan and cover his wages until his contract expires.

That said, Ings, Origi, Clyne, Kent, Ejaria and Awoniyi can probably raise a fair sum of money, while having Sturridge, Lallana and Moreno off the wage bill isn't something to scoff at. I hope Lovren joins the list of departures this summer, too, so all the remnants of that wretched summer of 2014 are finally cleared out and replaced with players who are ultimately a better fit for Klopp's football and who can consistently contribute to Liverpool's cause. Liverpool started last two seasons with stronger squads and we were all fawning over the newly acquired squad strength, only for couple of injuries to force Klopp to call on the likes of Lovren, Sturridge and even Lallana.

I still don't expect any monumental signings this summer, I think Klopp will opt for younger players with bags of potential, someone like Sessegnon or Hudson-Odoi (I'm convinced Liverpool would have been seriously interested in him had it not been for his injury). Players like De Ligt, Hudson-Odoi and Sessegnon would be perfect for Liverpool at this point, in my opinion, but I don't see Liverpool going for the former two for different reasons, unfortunately.
 

ILLOK

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Liverpool started last two seasons with stronger squads and we were all fawning over the newly acquired squad strength, only for couple of injuries to force Klopp to call on the likes of Lovren, Sturridge and even Lallana.

I still don't expect any monumental signings this summer, I think Klopp will opt for younger players with bags of potential, someone like Sessegnon or Hudson-Odoi (I'm convinced Liverpool would have been seriously interested in him had it not been for his injury). Players like De Ligt, Hudson-Odoi and Sessegnon would be perfect for Liverpool at this point, in my opinion, but I don't see Liverpool going for the former two for different reasons, unfortunately.
Re bolded - are you arguing our squad isn't strong?

Quite the argument to make for a team with 94 points and in a CL semi final. Not sure I would agree with that one. Even though we all agree we need a better option for the front 3, our subs have more goals than anybody elses and Origi, Shaqiri and Sturridge have made a significant number of important contributions between them.

Agree with you with regards to the player profile we'll be targeting, this coming window gives us a chance to get rid of some older, lesser performing players with poor fitness records and replace them with younger, hopefully better players. Consolidate our medium-long term position at the top of the tree.
 

20ATHLONE

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My thoughts on what we need 1 or 2 players with an already obvious “wow factor”
My picks; Dybala and De Ligt

Then a few “projects” we develop further
Harry Wilson, Grujic, Camacho and Brewster

Say goodbye to; Lallana, Ings, Milner (sadly) ,Sturridge and Lovren
 

Danny Sarge

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What about Ricardo Pereira of Leicester. Reason being its more than likely that Clyne and Moreno will be gone as well as Milner who has covered at times this season at full back, so indeed we will be quite short if our first two get injured. I think he could be a very useful versatile player who could cover on both sides and ive been fairly impressed when I've seen him this season.
 

nikz200

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I think its easy for us to just say "sell origin" but it feels like the lad has done enough when his number has been called upon to earn a extension with us. Especially since Sturridge is leaving for good reason. Don't know what the future holds for Shaqiri, but i hope he gets a shot again. If Milner leaves we need a veteran mid just to utility for us when he is needed.

Currently the wishlist looks like this

1. Dybala (Marquee, unlikely)
2. De ligt (Marquee unlikely)
3. Timo Werner ( First team, 60% likely to happen)
4. Tonali (rotation, 40% likely to happen)
5. Adrien Rabiot ( first team, 20% likely to happen)


These are just the players i wish, and not all 5 of them, some of these are alternates to the others.

With players like Fekir or Joao felix,situation will depend on whether we have a squad need for them or not.
 

Koon

Very bad englando. I'm so sorry.
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Watching Leverkusen 6x1 Frankfurt.

Brandt is such a great player. He has Ox's speed and drive forward football, but also finesse, creativity and dribbling. A complete midfielder at this point. Would match us beautifully and I could see him easily able to cover both number 8/10 and winger positions.

I know he will most probably end up in Bayern, but we must try at least.
 

20ATHLONE

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I say we sign every human over the age of 12. This way nobody else can field a team and we are automatically crowned champions of everything.
Just a thought
 

ILLOK

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Watching Leverkusen 6x1 Frankfurt.

Brandt is such a great player. He has Ox's speed and drive forward football, but also finesse, creativity and dribbling. A complete midfielder at this point. Would match us beautifully and I could see him easily able to cover both number 8/10 and winger positions.

I know he will most probably end up in Bayern, but we must try at least.
Ox has those things too.

Brandt's a good player who would do well here. I'd like to see Milner's minutes go to somebody like him in the midfield instead.
 

Koon

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Ox has those things too.

Brandt's a good player who would do well here. I'd like to see Milner's minutes go to somebody like him in the midfield instead.
I think Ox is a better presser and faster carrying the ball, but Brandt looks better in all other aspects at this moment, even if I compare with the best of Ox last season. Especially in terms of playmaking, Brandt looks way ahead of him. And the most important is that he is not injury prone. In fact, he is absolutely reliable in this aspect, basically never injured.

Brandt under Klopp would become an absolute beast, he has all the tools we need.
 

ILLOK

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I think Ox is a better presser and faster carrying the ball, but Brandt looks better in all other aspects at this moment, even if I compare with the best of Ox last season. Especially in terms of playmaking, Brandt looks way ahead of him. And the most important is that he is not injury prone. In fact, he is absolutely reliable in this aspect, basically never injured.

Brandt under Klopp would become an absolute beast, he has all the tools we need.
Much easier to showcase those skills in the Bundesliga, though. The space Frankfurt afforded them today was hilarious, if Chamberlain had been given that much time he'd have hurt them too.

I don't disagree though, Brandt would be an excellent buy.
 

Colorado Red

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Klopp really hasn’t used his status in German football that much, in terms of signing top Bundesliga talent. This summer’s a time to change that, by bringing in Brandt and Werner. Combined, they’d tick a lot of boxes in terms of players who can play across the front line and in attacking or box-to-box mid.

Sturridge and Lallana depart.
Brewster gets “promoted” (eg starts getting some playing time).
Ox hopefully comes back as something close to the player he was before.
Keita continues to develop into the player we need as an 8.
Hardest decision to make will be whether to keep or sell Origi.

Then we need cover for LB and at CB think we need one out, and (Lovren), and one in, preferably someone who can spell Virgil at the LCB position from time to time. Sure, Sessegnon and DeLight would be up there, but not sure either will come our way, as expect the former to sign for Spurs, and the latter to either move to Barca or stay 1 more season at Ajax.
 
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ILLOK

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Klopp really hasn’t used his status in German football that much, in terms of signing top Bundesliga talent.
That's because a lot of it isn't as good as advertised. Werner a prime example.

It's no coincidence that a lot of good Bundesliga players have struggled here and a lot of our young kids or players who never made an impact e.g. Kramaric are finding it much easier over there.

You only have to look at the results of English vs German sides in European competition this season to see the gulf in quality.
 

Nikola

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Re bolded - are you arguing our squad isn't strong?

Quite the argument to make for a team with 94 points and in a CL semi final. Not sure I would agree with that one. Even though we all agree we need a better option for the front 3, our subs have more goals than anybody elses and Origi, Shaqiri and Sturridge have made a significant number of important contributions between them.

Agree with you with regards to the player profile we'll be targeting, this coming window gives us a chance to get rid of some older, lesser performing players with poor fitness records and replace them with younger, hopefully better players. Consolidate our medium-long term position at the top of the tree.
I'm arguing that it isn't strong as those of clubs we are looking to overcome. Now, I don't think it is realistic to have two very good players in every position like Man City do but I'm honestly exasperated by the sight of Sturridge toiling when Liverpool need a goal, news of Lallana's latest injury or Lovren repeatedly failing to contain opponents' physical forwards.

I do think it is possible to solve these issues with one good window. Between Brewster's and Hoever's eventual promotions and up to three new purchases, I think Klopp and Edwards can get it done. Klopp does tend to target multifunctional players, so there should be plenty of minutes for everyone.

As for his subs, I think it's more down to the way Klopp sets up his team and motivates his players rather than their individual quality (I wish them all well but some of them would be better off somewhere else). Even Benteke used to be good off the bench... That said, I expect more from the likes of Keita and Shaqiri and I hope AOC can pick up from where he left off. Plenty of room for improvement there, I take heart from Lallana's second season with Klopp, as well as Wijnaldum and Matip from this season. That number of goals/assists should be consistently high, I think that consistency can be achieved with the improvement of current players and replacement of those past their best.
 

Flobs

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I have watched all LFC matches this season and only 1 play caught my eye and could be a real bargain now. Manga from Cardiff City. What do others think?
 

ILLOK

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I'm arguing that it isn't strong as those of clubs we are looking to overcome.

Now, I don't think it is realistic to have two very good players in every position like Man City do
Which one is it?

To be at the point that we're disappointed with Lovren, Lallana and Sturridge being given the occasional appearance is a pretty fantastic place to be in, and it is not indicative of us having a particularly weak squad.

Klopp has always been able to motivate his players but he hasn't always been able to change a game from the bench, the difference is the quality of player he now has at his disposal.

Yes, there's room for improvement, which I'm hopeful we'll see in the summer.
 

Koon

Very bad englando. I'm so sorry.
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Much easier to showcase those skills in the Bundesliga, though. The space Frankfurt afforded them today was hilarious, if Chamberlain had been given that much time he'd have hurt them too.

I don't disagree though, Brandt would be an excellent buy.
I'm not talking exactly about today's game, it's about his past 2 seasons. But this season, playing as a number 8 he looks fantastic. And he has always been a playmaker, the news is about his defensive skills and versatility. That's a whole new level. I never looked at Ox as a playmaker (his stats also don't look like that of a playmaker), but as an attacker and a presser.

I wouldn't say it's much easier playing Bundesliga. There are really good players and good teams there, just like there are very poor teams in EPL. The main difference are the biggest teams. Our top 6 is way better than theirs, but from 7~18, I can't see too much difference tbh and in terms of play style, it is not as physical, but it still is physical enough and I don't think there's that much space.

Ajax is the biggest reason why I think if you play a top 5 league as an above average player, you can play any league in the world. Salah and Alisson are also good examples and there are many others. It's all about the right manager and the right play style. If you have a manager like Mourinho, you will struggle, but if you have Klopp, Pochettino or Guardiola, you will probably become an even better player.
 

Flobs

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Absolutely amazing and rediculous this idea I'm reading that we need highly specific types of player to make a team. That would make Klopp look fucking stupid if we had an injury crisis.
 

GermanRed

from doubters to believers to sky-high achievers
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Weren’t we linked with Lloyd Kelly (LB/CB) from Bristol City? How is he doing this season?

I still like Nathan Aké. Probably too expensive for a long term cover for CB and LB (think that’s what he would be) but I think he has huge potential.
 

ILLOK

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I'm not talking exactly about today's game, it's about his past 2 seasons. But this season, playing as a number 8 he looks fantastic. And he has always been a playmaker, the news is about his defensive skills and versatility. That's a whole new level. I never looked at Ox as a playmaker (his stats also don't look like that of a playmaker), but as an attacker and a presser.

I wouldn't say it's much easier playing Bundesliga. There are really good players and good teams there, just like there are very poor teams in EPL. The main difference are the biggest teams. Our top 6 is way better than theirs, but from 7~18, I can't see too much difference tbh and in terms of play style, it is not as physical, but it still is physical enough and I don't think there's that much space.

Ajax is the biggest reason why I think if you play a top 5 league as an above average player, you can play any league in the world. Salah and Alisson are also good examples and there are many others. It's all about the right manager and the right play style. If you have a manager like Mourinho, you will struggle, but if you have Klopp, Pochettino or Guardiola, you will probably become an even better player.
I'm not arguing there isn't any good players in Germany, just that there's not as many as it appears on the surface. There's no two ways about it, it's clearly an inferior league. Logic then suggests that inferior players find it easier, and also that good players could find it more difficult elsewhere.

Kagawa, Mhkitaryan and Gundogan were all 'playmakers' in Germany but couldn't come close to producing that here. Xhaka had a big reputation in Germany but hasn't lived up to it here. Our own Keita hasn't quite lived up to the billing yet, though the signs are promising. It's only KdB who has undoubtedly lived up to the reputation he gained in that league.

Brandt may be a 'playmaker' for Leverkusen but for this Liverpool side he'd be just another cog in the machine. It really isn't the same, not only is the standard of football superior but Liverpool are also a far more disciplined and sensible side than Leverkusen. Leverkusen don't have a player like Firmino who operates in those spaces and they don't have the full backs we do, Brandt would almost certainly find it very difficult to keep up those assist numbers here.

Just to be clear, I think Brandt has what it takes, but your post makes it out that he's miles ahead of Ox and I can't agree yet, I think they're quite similar provided Chamberlain returns to the same level. I'd love to see them play together, though.
 

GermanRed

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If Klopp wants to develop Brewster into our future CF and Origi stays as an option for LW and especially as our only 'big man option if late goals are needed' then bringing in another speedy winger is the most likeliest to happen in attack. Neres or Bergwjin maybe?

What i don’t really get - Klopp played Wijnaldum as Firmino replacement because he is the only one who can defend from CF position similar to Firmino. So does he see that in Brewster?

Are there other CF in Europe (available) who you’d trust to do the pressing/defending similar to Bobby?
 

Nikola

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Which one is it?

To be at the point that we're disappointed with Lovren, Lallana and Sturridge being given the occasional appearance is a pretty fantastic place to be in, and it is not indicative of us having a particularly weak squad.

Klopp has always been able to motivate his players but he hasn't always been able to change a game from the bench, the difference is the quality of player he now has at his disposal.

Yes, there's room for improvement, which I'm hopeful we'll see in the summer.
I don't think that Liverpool, under Klopp, will ever look to have the depth that Man City have (Sane, Jesus and Mahrez to cover for Sterling, Aguero and Bernardo Silva, for example - which is quite ridiculous looking at their respective reputations and price tags) but I think that a level or two above Origi and Sturridge is feasible. You've mentioned Brandt - for me, he's not as good as Sane but should contribute more than either Lallana, Sturridge or Origi and has a pretty high ceiling.

That's what I'm talking about, perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but that's the level of player I think Liverpool should be looking at this summer. Starting XI almost entirely picks itself but the drop-off in quality when, say, Firmino isn't playing shouldn't be this significant. They won't always be available and some will accumulate a lot of fatigue over the years - getting a couple of "right" players will hopefully prevent that as well.

That said, I'd be very happy with the likes of Sessegnon or Hudson-Odoi, though, even though I think someone Brandt is more developed than these. Ultimately, I think they'd be better options than the misfits I'm having a go at, as cruel as it sounds. I mean them nothing bad, it's just that I think they can't contribute enough.
 

Koon

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I'm not arguing there isn't any good players in Germany, just that there's not as many as it appears on the surface. There's no two ways about it, it's clearly an inferior league. Logic then suggests that inferior players find it easier, and also that good players could find it more difficult elsewhere.

Kagawa, Mhkitaryan and Gundogan were all 'playmakers' in Germany but couldn't come close to producing that here. Xhaka had a big reputation in Germany but hasn't lived up to it here. Our own Keita hasn't quite lived up to the billing yet, though the signs are promising. It's only KdB who has undoubtedly lived up to the reputation he gained in that league.

Brandt may be a 'playmaker' for Leverkusen but for this Liverpool side he'd be just another cog in the machine. It really isn't the same, not only is the standard of football superior but Liverpool are also a far more disciplined and sensible side than Leverkusen. Leverkusen don't have a player like Firmino who operates in those spaces and they don't have the full backs we do, Brandt would almost certainly find it very difficult to keep up those assist numbers here.

Just to be clear, I think Brandt has what it takes, but your post makes it out that he's miles ahead of Ox and I can't agree yet, I think they're quite similar provided Chamberlain returns to the same level. I'd love to see them play together, though.
I disagree. Look at the difference in points from the top 6 to the 7th place. In EPL, it's 10 points, in Bundesliga it's zero. It means that our top 6 is much better, but after that, everythings looks very equal. We don't have 18 amazing english teams. We have only six and that's why this is the best league. There's no such a thing as one or two contenders, there are four, maybe five and six are clearly the better teams.

I agree that Kagawa couldn't play as good as in Germany, but Mhkitaryan was a very overrated player. He had like one or two good seasons at Dortmund and that's it. Gundogan was never a playmaker in his life. He is/was a typical box-to-box, with high energy and good short range pass and that's it. I'd compare him to Gini, although they are different player, imo. And also, he looks as good in EPL, I see nothing wrong here.

By your ideas, I could argue that Spain is the best league in the world because Coutinho used to play for fun in EPL but is struggling a lot in Spain, where they have by far the best team. See, it's not that simple.

Being a playmaker doesn't mean you are better or whatever, just that you are creative and have vision enough to find space and play the ball. That's not an Ox trait, he is another type of player. He is a ball carrier, a good presser and a versatile player, but he hasn't been a playmaker for the past 5~6 seasons in PL. Brandt is ahead of Ox imo, in terms of playmaking, just like Ox is ahead of him in terms of pressing and ball carrying. They have similar aspects, but they also have different aspects, and one of them is that Brandt is a superior playmaker, imo.
 

ILLOK

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I disagree. Look at the difference in points from the top 6 to the 7th place. In EPL, it's 10 points, in Bundesliga it's zero. It means that our top 6 is much better, but after that, everythings looks very equal.
That's not really how it works.

The rest of our league is still stronger than theirs. Compare the players of Wolves, Leicester, Everton, Watford and West Ham to Hoffenheim, Wolfsburg, Werder, Fortuna and Hertha. The English clubs very clearly have the better players, as they should because they have far more money to spend.
 

waynejones31

TIA Youth Team
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May 10, 2007
Messages
219
Would be a dream summer ! Not going to happen , I suspect we will be frugal despite CL money being high again

Sell

Karius 6M
Clyne 15M
Moreno Free
Ejaria 4M
Kent 7M
Wilson 15M
Grujic 35M
Chrivella 3M
Lalanna 15M
Sturridge Free
Ings 19M
Ojo 4M
Awoniyi 5M
Woodburn 8M

Total Possible 136M

Buy

Valery 10M
Aouar 45M
Brandt 25M or Van De Beek
Dembele or Pepe 65M
Werner 45M

190M

Spend 54M
 

RedForever2014

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Mar 27, 2014
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3,976
I constantly hear and read people suggest we don't need to do much in the transfer market, because we got 94 (97) points and to the CL semis.

But one should always be looking to improve, especially as our competitors will. Standing still can be going backwards if everyone else progresses.

We also have to ask ourselves whether we'll actually get to a similar points tally again with largely the same squad.

Our league campaign has been successful because the five key players in our squad did not get injured (VVD, Robertson, Mane, Mo, Bobby), or at least did not get injured until it didn't really matter.

Can we really expect that if we don't have viable options to rest and rotate them more they will remain as injury free? Bobby's groin injury is hugely indicative of over-use, never mind that for large parts of the season he was clearly not the same player as the season before, which IMO was due to fatigue.

LFC is a £400m+ business, of which nearly £100m comes from the Champions League.

Do we want to be an injury or two away from not getting to the latter stages of the CL and missing out on nearly half that CL revenue? We saw, in December, the value in quality players, with Alisson's save at the end against Napoli directly netting the club the money in the CL it has made since.

Alisson's save, without which we'd have gone out, enabled us to go on and earn another £35m+ from the CL this season. He repaid half his fee with that save alone.

The club is financially strong enough to be in a position where it should be competing year in year out, even if the squad suffers what would be a reasonable amount of injuries amongst a group of 20 players, even key ones. Injuries that this season, thankfully, didn't happen.

If City lost key players for a significant period of time, which they have this season, they would remain competitive, as they have. We would not remain competitive with the loss of one or two of the five key players. They have six like for like options for the three forward positions.

Is it acceptable that should we suffer those injuries next season, everyone turns around and says, 'well we would have competed if x, y. or z wasn't injured, there's always next year'?

Then of course there is the issue of protecting one's assets. Do we destroy the body of a £50m to £100m player because we don't invest in the rotation options required to ensure he doesn't suffer over-use related injuries? If Mane, Mo and Bobby are worth £200m-£300m between them, should we not have £50m to £100m sat in options to rotate them to ensure they remain fit and usable?

I find it utterly ridiculous that anybody could argue for only having three top quality players for a department where we use three players each and every match.

Despite there being issues in defence and midfield that need to be addressed, there are genuine rotation options that we don't have up front.

With our three forwards all in summer international competitions on the back of a demanding season, we simply have to add similar level quality to that department if we have the genuine intent to continue to compete in accordance with our standing as a club.

We suffered in the CL final due to having nobody to bring on for Mo despite having no injuries in the forward squad, and the same happened in relation to Bobby in Barcelona.

Let's hope the penny has dropped at LFC HQ and in Boston, because if it hasn't it won't only be the trophy chances, but also the pounds that will suffer.