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Who would you buy?



RedForever2014

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In the aftermath of performances like last night, it's tough to contemplate certain changes that previously were being discussed.

But you've got to step away from euphoria, or despair when that happens, and coldly look at what needs doing.

It's about who can perform at the level we need, where and when we need it, against who we need it.

Centre back is a difficult one because Matip is playing so well, Gomez looked superb there and Lovren is a character, a dedicated servant who is great on his day but prone to mishaps. But we have to consider the fact that VVD can rarely be rested and that three centre backs are injury prone. We also might consider that full back cover could come from a change at centre back.

At full back it's tough to contemplate TAA and Andy not playing too much, but at the same time the demands of the position mean you've got to rest them a certain proportion of the time. Plus you have to ensure that if they get injured the whole game plan doesn't unravel.

In midfield, we have to consider Milner's longevity, and succession plan a bit.

Up top it's about having genuine quality alternatives so that we can rest the front three more.

In addition to keeping us competitive in the CL and PL, depth also increase our chances in domestic cups.

As we wake us this morning I still think that those out on loan should stay on loan or be sold. I still think Moreno and Sturridge need to go and that Lallana probably needs to go too. Lovren is the obvious centre back to make way.

Origi is the one who is starting to change minds, the advantage with him being that he's rare in being a tall guy who can be a target man and play wide.

So a couple of new defenders would be on the cards, especially if Milner stays as further full back cover. If we stick with 7 defenders and 6 midfielders (including Oxlade), then there's a place for Shaqiri as a attacking midfielder come forward plus 6 other forwards.

For me a couple of quality forwards definitely remain on the agenda, especially with the need to get a similar points tally in the PL to be able to win it.
 

lfc.eddie

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Well here's some weird coincidence which shows how good Klopp is... Wijnaldum, Robertson and Shaqiri, all 3 started for us against Barcelona and all of them came from a team relegated and we picked them out on a cheap. Maybe we should look at Fulham and who we could pinch?
 



Armonerse

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First XI (cover) for next season :

GK : Alisson (Mignolet)
-------------------------------------
RB: Alexander-Arnold (_____)
RCB: Matip (Gomez)
LCB: Van Dijk (Lovren)
LB: Robertson (_____)
-------------------------------------
CDM: Fabinho (Henderson)
CM: Wijnaldum (Keita)
CAM: _____ (Oxlade-Chamberlain)
-------------------------------------
RW: Salah (Shaqiri)
CF: Firmino (_____)
LW: Mané (_____)

Three new players therefore required:
1) A creative, proven CAM able to earn a starting spot (Bruno Fernandes, Pablo Fornals, Nabil Fekir?). I feel this season we were lucky to get away with the lack of creativity in midfield, with some last-minute winners and a few lucky situations. Man City in the other hand always looked more confortable and convincing against stubborn defences.
2) A full-back able to cover for both sides (Djibril Sidibé, Kenny Lala?).
3) A forward capable of covering the three positions (Thorgan Hazard, Mark Uth?).

I would probably keep Milner and Origi at least one more season, and let go of Sturridge, Lallana and Moreno.
 

Limiescouse

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After a really slow start, I have become really impressed with Lucas Moura the past 6 weeks or so. He didnt arrive with the greatest reputation for aptitude, but everytime I have seen him in this current run he has looked 100% a Klopp player. I think he was arguably the best player on the pitch when we beat them a few weeks ago.
Worth another mention.
 

Perth Red

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Personally think we may be only looking at full-back cover and a back-up to Mane/Salah. Big Div and Rhian seem to be set as the additional front men, Ox returning to bolster the midfield.
Unless someone unexpected leaves (why would they??) there seems little need for more.
Personally would be happy for Lovren and Lallana to move on but don't see that happening
 



GermanRed

from doubters to believers to sky-high achievers
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Think reaching the CL final means we have to wait a bit longer for reliable rumors.
 

GermanRed

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Well Fabinho signed 2 days after last years final. I expect we've wrapped up most deals already
But what does 'most deals' in our case mean?

IMO most of our business depends on the future of players like Mignolet, Lovren, Milner, Lallana and Origi.

Mignolet probably the only one from them who knows that he won't stay. Milner might want to wait what happens with Leeds.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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But what does 'most deals' in our case mean?

IMO most of our business depends on the future of players like Mignolet, Lovren, Milner, Lallana and Origi.

Mignolet probably the only one from them who knows that he won't stay. Milner might want to wait what happens with Leeds.
Think we will do our incoming business regardless of outgoing deals being completed yet.
 

Iluvatar

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But what does 'most deals' in our case mean?

IMO most of our business depends on the future of players like Mignolet, Lovren, Milner, Lallana and Origi.

Mignolet probably the only one from them who knows that he won't stay. Milner might want to wait what happens with Leeds.
I doubt it, we have historically bought before selling as not to have a hole in the squad.

Considering we need probably 2 first team ready players, why would our fringe players have any bearing on those as incomings?

I highly expect our approach is - buy in a quality player who becomes rotation for the first team (i.e. another wide forward) and then Lallana/Shaqiri etc. get offered the option to stay and be lower in the pecking order or be allowed to move on for 1st team football.
 



Red over the water

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Worth another mention.
Is he on loan at Spurs? Or did they sign him permanently? If the latter, we’ve got no chance. Spurs are (almost) peers, and they won’t sell anyone they don’t want to sell, especially to a rival, and if they are forced to sell, say due to contract reasons, they always seem to extract a pretty penny. If Moura is locked down on contract to them he will be there for the duration.

I do agree that he is a quality player, and would do well here.

If I was Pochettino I’d sell Kane and buy three players (sort of like their version of selling Coutinho and upgrading the team with the proceeds). It’s a risky move, but if the financial shackles are on the club due to having to pay for the stadium, that might be a bold move for them to consider.
 

RedForever2014

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It gets tempting to say little needs doing, but we have punched above the weight of the squad in the CL and PL, partly because we rode our luck with injuries and didn't need to use squad players for extended periods. We also didn't go far in domestic cups using squad players and that has to be considered.

Do you rest on that, or look to ensure that if we get injuries to key people the season doesn't implode?

Win the PL or CL and we become even more of a scalp. Every match will be even more intense. We'll have to keep the energy in the side by rotation.

We could have Super Cup and Community Shield matches in August, whilst a quarter of the squad will have played long summer tournaments.

You've got to have 20 senior outfield players, and youngsters have to force their way into that 20 by proving themselves in lesser matches.

Defence is a separate unit, I'm not sure if we'll go with 7 or 8 and how rotatable they'll be, but in midfield/attack we need 12 or 13 rotatable players.

Take the five CMs, add the front three, plus Oxlade (who straddles both departments). That's nine players who are definitely good enough to play regularly, for six positions, which isn't enough.

At the next level down, Origi and Shaqiri offer something, but Lallana is yesterday's man. Sturridge is gone.

You'd maybe have one or two of them in an ideal squad, but 25% of your midfield/forward squad?

It didn't feel for a lot of this season that we were blessed with rotatable attacking midfield and forward cover, especially in those cup defeats and when forwards really needed resting in the intense runs.

So for me one midfield or forward signing isn't enough. If we don't sign anyone there and just keep what we have plus promote Brewster to take Sturridge's place, that will be disappointing.

We have to keep improving the quality of our depth.
 
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JustHitMyHead

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Wow... Luka Jovic. The more I see of him, the more I'm convinced we need to either buy him or make sure none of our rivals get him. He would be a golden boot threat wherever he went.

That Man City are rumoured to be scouting him scares me! Hope we get him or he otherwise goes to Real Madrid.
 

Speckydodge

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Wow... Luka Jovic. The more I see of him, the more I'm convinced we need to either buy him or make sure none of our rivals get him. He would be a golden boot threat wherever he went.

That Man City are rumoured to be scouting him scares me! Hope we get him or he otherwise goes to Real Madrid.
Reckon he's going to Real. Class player but not sure he'd suit us tbh.
 

Feno

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Wow... Luka Jovic. The more I see of him, the more I'm convinced we need to either buy him or make sure none of our rivals get him. He would be a golden boot threat wherever he went.

That Man City are rumoured to be scouting him scares me! Hope we get him or he otherwise goes to Real Madrid.
Always a great topic, especially as with what JK has done there are few desperate obvious needs and we are talking about buys that may create one of the great teams of all time.

I don’t disagree with any of this talk but I have a different take on it. Milner and Henderson are men possessed under Klopp now. Match winners. Origi and Wijnalsum have joined (and perhaps exceeded) them. Klopp’s system is bringing the best out of players one might have expected to go elsewhere or remain on the fringe.

Nathaniel Clyne, if he’s smart, will come back. He has no need to worry about playing time - when you’re in the contest for the EPL and the Champions (and the FA in a year or 2) depth and variety are critical and you will inevitably get plenty of game time, no question ...game time in a club going places, one that demands the best of you and one that gives you opportunities you won’t get elsewhere to play with the greatest players going around in the best competitions there are.

This is how the triple trophy United and the Arsenal invincibles sides worked. Rotation, multiple successful combinations that only strengthen over time. A system that unifies players even if they are forming say a new midfield combination for the first time. Multiple successful combinations that give the boss the options he needs to outthink his opponents.

We need to celebrate the Sturridges, Origis, Wijnalsuma, Clynes, Camachos, Matips, Lovrens, etc etc even if they aren’t seen as the first stringers. In fact we need to be thinking of having 2, 3 or 4 first string sides. And I’d take Coutinho back in a heartbeat because of his ability to fit such a dynamic system - a special player who can change tactics and adapt to different combinations successfully.

So while it’s great to consider buying a Timo Werner or a Nabil Fekir, I’d just as soon look at the extreme talent currently building under Jürgen Klopp’s system. Daniel Sturridge is quality. If he stays he’ll become a game changer.
 
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JustHitMyHead

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Always a great topic, especially as with what JK has done there are few desperate obvious needs and we are talking about buys that may create one of the great teams of all time.

I don’t disagree with any of this talk but I have a different take on it. Milner and Henderson are men possessed under Klopp now. Match winners. Origi and Wijnalsum have joined (and perhaps exceeded) them. Klopp’s system is bringing the best out of players one might have expected to go elsewhere or remain on the fringe.

Nathaniel Clyne, if he’s smart, will come back. He has no need to worry about playing time - when you’re in the contest for the EPL and the Champions (and the FA in a year or 2) depth and variety are critical and you will inevitably get plenty of game time, no question ...game time in a club going places, one that demands the best of you and one that gives you opportunities you won’t get elsewhere to play with the greatest players going around in the best competitions there are.

This is how the triple trophy United and the Arsenal invincibles sides worked. Rotation, multiple successful combinations that only strengthen over time. A system that unifies players even if they are forming say a new midfield combination for the first time. Multiple successful combinations that give the boss the options he needs to outthink his opponents.

We need to celebrate the Sturridges, Origis, Wijnalsuma, Clynes, Camachos, Matips, Lovrens, etc etc even if they aren’t seen as the first stringers. In fact we need to be thinking of having 2, 3 or 4 first string sides. And I’d take Coutinho back in a heartbeat because of his ability to fit such a dynamic system - a special player who can change tactics and adapt to different combinations successfully.

So while it’s great to consider buying a Timo Werner or a Nabil Fekir, I’d just as soon look at the extreme talent currently building under Jürgen Klopp’s system. Daniel Sturridge is quality. If he stays he’ll become a game changer.
I understand what you are trying to say but I don't agree at all. Daniel Sturridge, if he stays, will likely not become a game changer because he has lost his pace.

Likewise, while Klopp is a great coach... certain players have limited upside that no matter how good the coaching is, will be very hard to change. For example, we brought in Alisson because Migs wasn't going to get to his level even with coaching. Same too when we brought in VVD because none of our CBs at the time seemed likely to get to his level.

It's like a hospital that hires the world's best surgeon... and because he is soooo good, he doesn't need to use the best instruments to perform a successful surgery. So should the hospital save on his tools and his surgical team (which could inevitably handicap him and bring his performance in line with his peers)? Or should they provide him the best tools and team they can afford so he can save more lives and perform to his best?

We can improve on Sturridge, Clyne, etc. and build a more competitive squad... so (ignoring other factors that could impact this decision) we generally should improve on them.
 

Soyasource

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Players I would like sold:

1. Sturridge
2. Lallana
3. Moreno
4. Lovren
5. Grujic
6. Bogdan
7. Danny Ings
8. Ojo
9. Kent
10. Chirivella
11. Karius

Players I would like brought in:

1. Matthijs De ligt
2. Nicolas Pepe
3. Ruben Vinagre
4. Kai Havertz


2019/2020 Squad

KEEPERS
1. Alisson
2. Mignolet

DEFENDERS
3. Trent
4. Clyne
5. Van Djik
6. De Ligt
7. Gomes
8. Matip
9. Robertson
10. Vinagre

MIDFIELDERS
11. Fabinho
12. Henderson
13. Gini
14. Keita
15. Oxlade
16. Milner
17. Wilson
18. Havertz

FORWARDS
19. Salah
20. Firmino
21. Mane
22. Pepe
23. Brewster
24. Divock
 

Druss

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Well it looks like you were right so far @RedForever2014

Origi's not capable to fill in for Firmino even against the likes of Huddersfield never mind Barcelona. Hes not got the quality we need in the decisive games.

We've desperately missed Clyne. If only we'd kept him since January we may have still been competing for the Premier league on the last day of the season and probably would have qualified for the champions league final!

Insert lots of winky emojis here to show my playful nature.

However i agree with you. It goes without saying that we need to sign new players in the summer. You always strive to improve on your previous season and squad.
 



RedForever2014

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Are you saying that teams raise their game when they are facing the champions?

It sure hasn’t looked like it when City have been playing this season. Most clubs just roll over for them.
That's a fair point. But I wonder if it would be the same if it was us.

Well it looks like you were right so far @RedForever2014

Origi's not capable to fill in for Firmino even against the likes of Huddersfield never mind Barcelona. Hes not got the quality we need in the decisive games.

We've desperately missed Clyne. If only we'd kept him since January we may have still been competing for the Premier league on the last day of the season and probably would have qualified for the champions league final!

Insert lots of winky emojis here to show my playful nature.

However i agree with you. It goes without saying that we need to sign new players in the summer. You always strive to improve on your previous season and squad.
Origi has surprised us all, but there is a big difference in filling in for a few games and an extended run of games if one of the front three were injured for an extended period.

Do you think we'd be competing for the title until the last day of the season, if we'd been playing Origi and Shaqiri in most matches over the past two months?

Good players, who I personally like, but you need better quality as the next in line after the front three.

As to Clyne, I'll give you that one, although even then one never knows what result could have been different, so we'd be going into the last day in control of it, if he'd been around. We suffered against Leicester at home in the PL in January down the right defensive flank, and it unnerved the whole side.

We have done brilliantly, but it's been because our squad has not been tested over an extended run by the sort of injuries other top clubs have had.

All I'm saying is don't navel gaze, keeping improving, others will.
 

redfanman

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That's a fair point. But I wonder if it would be the same if it was us.



Origi has surprised us all, but there is a big difference in filling in for a few games and an extended run of games if one of the front three were injured for an extended period.

Do you think we'd be competing for the title until the last day of the season, if we'd been playing Origi and Shaqiri in most matches over the past two months?

Good players, who I personally like, but you need better quality as the next in line after the front three.

As to Clyne, I'll give you that one, although even then one never knows what result could have been different, so we'd be going into the last day in control of it, if he'd been around. We suffered against Leicester at home in the PL in January down the right defensive flank, and it unnerved the whole side.

We have done brilliantly, but it's been because our squad has not been tested over an extended run by the sort of injuries other top clubs have had.

All I'm saying is don't navel gaze, keeping improving, others will.
The issue against Leicester wasnt solely down to injuries to right back, but a wider one across the back and midfield and poor weather conditions. Of bigger consequence were the poor refereeing decisions.

Same as in the cup game against Wolves were we had to put together a rag tag of back up and youth players because of injuries who had never played together. We played badly but only really went out to a worldy by Neves.

We have had extended injuries like the other clubs.
 

Limiescouse

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You've got to have 20 senior outfield players, and youngsters have to force their way into that 20 by proving themselves in lesser matches.

Defence is a separate unit, I'm not sure if we'll go with 7 or 8 and how rotatable they'll be, but in midfield/attack we need 12 or 13 rotatable players.
I think you over state that. City is the side many look to as a the gold standard of strength in depth, yet we have used more players for a decent amount of minutes than they have this season. That midfield and attack group that you think needs 12-13 rotatable players, City have just 10 players for that group of 6 positions (Silva, Silva, KdB, Fernando, Gundogan, Jesus, Kun, Sterling, Sane, Mahrez). And of that group, Jesus and Mahrez are a big come down from the rest.

The situation with those two I think speaks to the reality is that it is very difficult to build a squad that allows you to get much out of players 17-25. That isn't an issue of the cost of buying players with sufficient quality. It is far more an issue of how difficult it is to extend import roles out past a smaller core of players and the difficulty of performing reliably on limited time, as is the requirement for players outside of that core. We have enough players in terms of raw numbers. I think what we need is to bring in players who can offer better contributions from that fringe than the likes of Moreno and Sturridge.
 
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Limiescouse

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Without Firmino + Salah + Keita and lost Robertson through injury after 45mins..

Que?
Note, a part of the path to that game required us to play with 2 senior CBS injured and a third, the lynchpin, suspended. We are also currently on the 3rd highest point total in top flight history, will possibly get to the 2nd highest ever, despite going through a period of the season with 3 CBs out simultaneously and one RB. Our captain has been in and out of the side all season because of various niggling injuries. Our 50 million pound midfield transformer, the guy we waited on for 12 months because he was such a good fit, has had it even ever worse.