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Who would you buy?

Walshy07

In Klopp we trust
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It does make sense, to be honest. While I'm an advocate of replacing Lovren, bringing in de Ligt for mega-money while we have Gomez in the squad, with a rejuvenated Matip as an excellent third-choice, doesn't seem like a huge priority.

I just hope he does go to Barca (for example) rather than either of the Manchester clubs.
Im all for replacing a player with a better one if possible.
So Gomez is very good but is he the new Sturridge? Hes been unlucky with injuries but they have all been long term ones - like Daniel.
Id bring in De Ligt and move on Lovren. Having the issue of getting Matip, Gomez and De Ligt in the team is a good problem to have (City have had the same issue with Stones, Kompany, La Porte and Otemendi and done them no harm). Could even rest VVD a few times if needed.

Whoever we sign I dont think we will hear anything until after the final as we dont want to create any disharmony to those focused on the final.
 


RedForever2014

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I think you may be missing out on something here.

FSG have a strategy which is to drive renenue and profit by having a successful team.

They attempt to do that by being incredibly efficient in everything they do both on the commercial side and on the playing side

We have now, thanks to their support and knowledge a great commercial setup. We are in control of our finances and we are becomming successful.

Its a process and it takes time, its been built on hard work and keeping strictly to a clear strategy, in which all of those involved believe.

I dont think that without the shared knowledge and culture of FSG LFC coukd have turned this around

Man U seem to be without a single strategy or vision and with the same money as Man C they are a bit rubbish and going backwards

Commercially they are no where near as hard and unyieldingly focused as we have been with FSG support

There is so much more here than just money.
I appreciate that LFC has massively improved commercially under FSG and applaud them for that.

It is clear that a level of success on the pitch feeds the commercial side, although in the short run much of the possible commercial return can be achieved without actually winning things as long as you are in the latter stages of the CL every year, plus finishing top four and on TV a lot in the PL. How much more does the CL winner make than the runner up? Same question for the PL?

It could be argued that, on a purely ROI basis, the cost of becoming regular trophy winners does not yield similar commercial returns to the return on investment of getting close. Essentially, for £90m net under Klopp, the club is 90% as commercially successful as City (depending on your measure of commercial return, mine is turnover). City had to pay four to five times as much net in transfers for a commercial return 10% higher than LFC's.

In terms of trophies, the £1 billion net spend under City's owners has yielded 10 trophies I believe, so it's cost of £100m a trophy.

Our net spend per trophy will be higher than that, as we've won one trophy under FSG and have spent more than £100m net since 2010.

Obviously when you have a squad that can win trophies, you often find it wins multiple trophies, and the cost per trophy declines.

Whilst it's clear that regardless of actually winning something much of the commercial return can be achieved by going close, if a club goes too long without winning very much, it runs the risk of losing future generations of supporters.

So you hope that the current custodians recognise that the long term financial health of the club does sometimes require taking less of a ROI off the pitch, to ensure the club wins enough trophies to keep its long term history of success intact.

In short, I know LFC needs to be self-sustaining, I appreciate that FSG need a financial return, I am just saying that there is an opportunity just now to invest in players who could complete the squad and potentially win multiple trophies.

It might not require that much, if we box clever. But I really do hope that the club does acquire the 3 or 4 quality players that would ensure we are fully equipped to win things now, that locks in long term commercial returns, even if we take a dip in ROI in the short run to achieve it.
 

Noo Noo

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I don't understand how turnover comes into it? If you want a high turnover you just sell tenners for a fiver! You'll turn over whatever you want but you'll lose your shirt while you're doing it!
yes but @Redforever stated that FSG were trying to reduce turnover for FFP purposes, or at least that's the way I read his post. I didn't understand it.

More turnover generally means more revenue which eases the FFP burden.

Apologies. going off track here
 

RedForever2014

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Im all for replacing a player with a better one if possible.
So Gomez is very good but is he the new Sturridge? Hes been unlucky with injuries but they have all been long term ones - like Daniel.
Id bring in De Ligt and move on Lovren. Having the issue of getting Matip, Gomez and De Ligt in the team is a good problem to have (City have had the same issue with Stones, Kompany, La Porte and Otemendi and done them no harm). Could even rest VVD a few times if needed.

Whoever we sign I dont think we will hear anything until after the final as we dont want to create any disharmony to those focused on the final.
You could bet your house on every article in the Echo linking us with a big name, being slapped down by Pearce the next day. Why they don't just acknowledge that he's effectively a LFC PR mouthpiece I don't know.

If the club has a limited budget, I understand that other areas, like full back and forward options, might take priority.

However, I also believe that sometimes you have to grasp an opportunity. If the opportunity to sign a player who is going to be one of the best in the world comes along, you seriously consider it. De Ligt would come here given VVD's presence and the club's standing just now.

De Ligt would be an improvement on the centre backs bar VVD, he'd be the long term replacement for him, and he could play alongside VVD as well as being good enough to deputise.

When you consider that three of our centre backs are injury prone, it makes the case stronger. Gomez will always be injury prone, always has been, always will be.

We could sign De Ligt for about £30m on top of Lovren. That merits serious consideration.
 

RedForever2014

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yes but @Redforever stated that FSG were trying to reduce turnover for FFP purposes, or at least that's the way I read his post. I didn't understand it.

More turnover generally means more revenue which eases the FFP burden.

Apologies. going off track here
More turnover gives you more scope to spend more net on transfers within FFP rules. It's why City are trying to invent ways to get turnover into their club.

The point is that in taking revenue out before it hits the club's books, via FSM, FSG are hindering the club's scope to spend more in net terms on transfers if it wanted to.

My view is that this suits FSG, as they want to take revenue from the club, want to do it discreetly, and aren't bothered about the impact on net transfer spending.
 



Iluvatar

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De Ligt would be an improvement on the centre backs bar VVD.

When you consider that three of our centre backs are injury prone, it makes the case stronger. Gomez will always be injury prone, always has been, always will be.
Can you quantify these points please?

How is De Ligt an improvement over Matip (currently) or Gomez (prospectively) ?
Why is Gomez always injury prone? His last injury was an impact one, when was his last soft tissue one?
 

Noo Noo

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More turnover gives you more scope to spend more net on transfers within FFP rules. It's why City are trying to invent ways to get turnover into their club.

The point is that in taking revenue out before it hits the club's books, via FSM, FSG are hindering the club's scope to spend more in net terms on transfers if it wanted to.

My view is that this suits FSG, as they want to take revenue from the club, want to do it discreetly, and aren't bothered about the impact on net transfer spending.
Er ok, if that's your take on it fine. I wont respond further for fear of taking the thread off track any further than we have done
 

Mascot88

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You could bet your house on every article in the Echo linking us with a big name, being slapped down by Pearce the next day. Why they don't just acknowledge that he's effectively a LFC PR mouthpiece I don't know.

If the club has a limited budget, I understand that other areas, like full back and forward options, might take priority.

However, I also believe that sometimes you have to grasp an opportunity. If the opportunity to sign a player who is going to be one of the best in the world comes along, you seriously consider it. De Ligt would come here given VVD's presence and the club's standing just now.

De Ligt would be an improvement on the centre backs bar VVD, he'd be the long term replacement for him, and he could play alongside VVD as well as being good enough to deputise.

When you consider that three of our centre backs are injury prone, it makes the case stronger. Gomez will always be injury prone, always has been, always will be.

We could sign De Ligt for about £30m on top of Lovren. That merits serious consideration.
Hard to disagree with until the last paragraph. Le Ligt is probably going for a world record fee for a defender.

The point is that in taking revenue out before it hits the club's books, via FSM, FSG are hindering the club's scope to spend more in net terms on transfers if it wanted to.

My view is that this suits FSG, as they want to take revenue from the club, want to do it discreetly, and aren't bothered about the impact on net transfer spending.
Without wanting to go too heavy on you, I think you need to stop this now. You’ve made your point on this many, many times, and you haven’t able or willing to provide anything to back up your concern that FSG are drawing money from LFC, or more importantly, that it’s affecting our ability to compete.

Let’s keep this thread to players we’d like to see at Anfield.
 

Walshy07

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De Ligt is 19 - if you keep him for 8-11 years and he more than pays that fee back over the years but according to James Pearce....

Liverpool have no plans to make a move for £65million-rated Ajax defender Matthijs de Ligt this summer.
The Reds have been heavily linked with the 19-year-old Netherlands international with some reports suggesting they had opened discussions over a potential deal.
However, the ECHO understands that is not the case and that Liverpool are not trying to secure the services of De Ligt.
Jurgen Klopp is happy with his centre-back options and isn't looking to strengthen his squad in that department.
Joel Matip has impressed alongside Virgil van Dijk in the second half of this season with Joe Gomez and Dejan Lovren providing cover.
 

moodle

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Jesus, I've only been trying to re-register for 2 years....

Any chance I can have my old account reactivated?

.... On the subject of potential signings- and this is something I spoke about when Rodgers was in charge - The issue of what liverpool need, in footballing terms, is one which separates those who really know the mechanics of the game, and everyone else.

Liverpool have a world class defence, a world class attack....


...And a midfield which proves we quite probably have the best manager in world football in charge of our club.

If theres any doubt whatsoever about where the difference lies between us and city in regards to potential for improvement, you should watch the games they won narrowly, and then watch those which we did. I watched a lot of their 1-0s near the end of the season, hoping to see them hanging on, which in turn would give me the hope that they were cracking, but instead watched them dominate games and completely control the territory, to the point where the last 15 minutes were a game of keep ball in the opponent's half, and then in the corner for the last 3 minutes.

Their control over games is based on the amount of technique and IQ they have in that midfield.

What surprises me most about this season is that we were able to get as close as we did with Henderson and Milner starting in so many games together. It's truly an example of how good the rest of the team and the work ethic of all of those players that we were able to do that.
 
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Mascot88

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Jesus, I've only been trying to re-register for 2 years....

Any chance I can have my old account reactivated?
Were you banned?

.... On the subject of potential signings- and this is something I spoke about when Rodgers was in charge - The issue of what liverpool need, in footballing terms, is one which separates those who really know the mechanics of the game, and everyone else.
Never mind, I remember. :)
 

JibJab

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You'll be shocked if we did something (break our transfer record) that we've done four times in the last 2 years?
Yes. What, you expect us to continue to do this over and over again every window? That seems logical, especially as Klopp has specifically stated that he doesn't expect any big signings this offseason.
 
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redfanman

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Jesus, I've only been trying to re-register for 2 years....

Any chance I can have my old account reactivated?

.... On the subject of potential signings- and this is something I spoke about when Rodgers was in charge - The issue of what liverpool need, in footballing terms, is one which separates those who really know the mechanics of the game, and everyone else.

Liverpool have a world class defence, a world class attack....


...And a midfield which proves we quite probably have the best manager in world football in charge of our club.

If theres any doubt whatsoever about where the difference lies between us and city in regards to potential for improvement, you should watch the games they won narrowly, and then watch those which we did. I watched a lot of their 1-0s near the end of the season, hoping to see them hanging on, which in turn would give me the hope that they were cracking, but instead watched them dominate games and completely control the territory, to the point where the last 15 minutes were a game of keep ball in the opponent's half, and then in the corner for the last 3 minutes.

Their control over games is based on the amount of technique and IQ they have in that midfield.

What surprises me most about this season is that we were able to get as close as we did with Henderson and Milner starting in so many games together. It's truly an example of how good the rest of the team and the work ethic of all of those players that we were able to do that.
City set up differently to us, so their requirements in midfield also differ somewhat.

Hendo and Milner are criminally under rated by some of our own fans. Yes, we can improve on them - but they are not as bad as many want us to believe.
 

Noo Noo

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City set up differently to us, so their requirements in midfield also differ somewhat.

Hendo and Milner are criminally under rated by some of our own fans. Yes, we can improve on them - but they are not as bad as many want us to believe.
Agree.
One difference between us and City is that we have had to compromise to some degree. City haven't or don't. They simply slot in the next guy who is already in place for that position.

We cant say that. Henderson for example, we've played him as a deep midfielder when he is clearly better further forward. Now Fabinho looks more settled wedon't need to compromise as much in that position and as often.

Fabinho in the back 4 was another compromise.
 



jackh1092

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Yes. What, you expect us to continue to do this over and over again every window? That seems logical, especially as Klopp has specifically stated that he doesn't expect any big signings this offseason.
JibJab, whilst i don't necessarily expect LFC to go and spend massively on one individual this summer, what Klopp says and what he does are not always the same thing. We are about to play our biggest match of the year very soon, do you think he's going to say he will spend massively on a player? That wouldn't be good for harmony.
 

JibJab

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Don’t worry; when we announce the signing of Mbappé, Klopp is merely going to say that it came as a total surprise to him.
Sure. And Kopstar will crow about how it is in totally expected for the club to spend 300M on a player when we hadn't spent 40M on a player as of two years ago.
 
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JibJab

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JibJab, whilst i don't necessarily expect LFC to go and spend massively on one individual this summer, what Klopp says and what he does are not always the same thing. We are about to play our biggest match of the year very soon, do you think he's going to say he will spend massively on a player? That wouldn't be good for harmony.
Sure, but there's a difference in investing in foundational pieces as you're shaping a club in your image - like Alisson or Virgil, at positions of dire need which were legitimately rumored about for months before they happened - and continuing to expect to increase that financial investment over and over and over again every window.

It's not my money, so if they want to drop 100M on a player, go right ahead. I'll cheer it as much as anyone here. But I'm not holding my breath.
 

Iluvatar

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Don’t worry; when we announce the signing of Mbappé, Klopp is merely going to say that it came as a total surprise to him.
He always caveats "If an opportunity presents itself.."

/Edwards "Hi how much for Mbappe"?
/PSG "£200mil"
/Edwards to Klopp "£200mil for the french kid"
/Klopp "Go for it"

We tried to sign him before he signed for Monaco, so its' basically nailed on imo.
 



jackh1092

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Sure, but there's a difference in investing in foundational pieces as you're shaping a club in your image - like Alisson or Virgil, at positions of dire need which were legitimately rumored about for months before they happened - and continuing to expect to increase that financial investment over and over and over again every window.

It's not my money, so if they want to drop 100M on a player, go right ahead. I'll cheer it as much as anyone here. But I'm not holding my breath.
I don't think anyone expects LFC to do what they did last calendar year in regards to spending. However, the likes of Alisson was completely ruled out by the same pressers that have reported the same re: De Ligt today. I wouldn't be surprised if we did spend 100 mill on two players or 150mill on 3 this summer.

Considering the sums that we will probably get in from sales as well. Not sure we would break our record this summer, as you say, the main positions are sewn up. We have the core, it's just about topping it up with some more quality. Quality doesn't come cheap nowadays though, and to get an attacker that can provide Salah/Mane with a rest, won't be coming for 20 million if you ask me. Nor would a replacement for say, Lovren if he was to go out the door.
 

Red over the water

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We could sign De Ligt for about £30m on top of Lovren. That merits serious consideration.
The cost of De Ligt would be partially offset by the sale of Lovren but I doubt the gap would be that small. The cheapest realistic price I’ve seen for De Ligt is £65M. I think lots of teams with big money would want him - Barcelona, Man Utd, Man City, us, probably more. So that sort of competition might well drive the price up. But even if it doesn’t, let’s say he costs £65M.

That means we have to sell Lovren for £35M, and I can’t see that. He’s 29 and has been injury prone and has missed a lot of football. He’s a good player, but not elite. My best guess is £25M, and we will do well to achieve that.

As for wages, we have started to see silly amounts linked with De Ligt, so all in all, my best guess would be at least a £40M transfer differential, plus £4M a year in wages.

De Ligt is a good player and we might do it, but we can’t overestimate Lovren’s worth and underestimate De Ligt’s worth to make the case. It will cost us a pretty penny, but it might be worth it, based on age and quality.

My tuppence worth is I wouldn’t do it, as there are other areas I’d spend the money, but if we sign him, I could see the sense and would obviously back him to do well.
 

Not Worthy

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The cost of De Ligt would be partially offset by the sale of Lovren but I doubt the gap would be that small. The cheapest realistic price I’ve seen for De Ligt is £65M. I think lots of teams with big money would want him - Barcelona, Man Utd, Man City, us, probably more. So that sort of competition might well drive the price up. But even if it doesn’t, let’s say he costs £65M.

That means we have to sell Lovren for £35M, and I can’t see that. He’s 29 and has been injury prone and has missed a lot of football. He’s a good player, but not elite. My best guess is £25M, and we will do well to achieve that.

As for wages, we have started to see silly amounts linked with De Ligt, so all in all, my best guess would be at least a £40M transfer differential, plus £4M a year in wages.

De Ligt is a good player and we might do it, but we can’t overestimate Lovren’s worth and underestimate De Ligt’s worth to make the case. It will cost us a pretty penny, but it might be worth it, based on age and quality.

My tuppence worth is I wouldn’t do it, as there are other areas I’d spend the money, but if we sign him, I could see the sense and would obviously back him to do well.
The thing with De Ligt is that it's this window or in about 4 years time. His availability is now and our biggest domestic competitor is in need of strengthening too. I can see us making the effort.
 

Red over the water

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The thing with De Ligt is that it's this window or in about 4 years time. His availability is now and our biggest domestic competitor is in need of strengthening too. I can see us making the effort.
I could see the sense in that.

The ideal timing for us might be in one more year. But it won’t be on the table then. So strike now, and at the same time hinder our domestic rival, who have a Kompany-sized hole they are trying to fill.

Makes sense. Mind you, I still want someone like Pepe/Bergwijn/Neres to give us a bit more in attack.
 

Not Worthy

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I could see the sense in that.

The ideal timing for us might be in one more year. But it won’t be on the table then. So strike now, and at the same time hinder our domestic rival, who have a Kompany-sized hole they are trying to fill.

Makes sense. Mind you, I still want someone like Pepe/Bergwijn/Neres to give us a bit more in attack.
De Ligt or Ake
Sessengon or Telles
Aouar or Pepe

3 in and about 10 out. Net spend in the region of £40-50m. Work done ; tea and buns all round.
 



RedForever2014

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Ok keeping on topic.

We have a minimum of five competitions next season (including the Community Shield match), possibly 7 (including Super Cup and World Club Cup).

We could easily find a title challenge derailed without quality depth.


IMO we need 20 usable senior outfield players.

If we are looking to really kick on and compete on all fronts, address our issues (over-reliance on certain players, injury prone centre backs, no genuine rotation at full back and up front), for me we'd be upgrading four players.

De Ligt (for Lovren), a versatile full back (for Moreno), an attacking midfielder (for Lallana) and a forward (for Sturridge).
 

JibJab

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I don't think anyone expects LFC to do what they did last calendar year in regards to spending.
Apparently @Kopstar does, with his cheeky response to what I thought was a fairly benign statement about how much we'd spend on a single player this summer.

However, the likes of Alisson was completely ruled out by the same pressers that have reported the same re: De Ligt today. I wouldn't be surprised if we did spend 100 mill on two players or 150mill on 3 this summer.

Considering the sums that we will probably get in from sales as well. Not sure we would break our record this summer, as you say, the main positions are sewn up. We have the core, it's just about topping it up with some more quality. Quality doesn't come cheap nowadays though, and to get an attacker that can provide Salah/Mane with a rest, won't be coming for 20 million if you ask me. Nor would a replacement for say, Lovren if he was to go out the door.
I agree that it could be possible that we'd spend 100M on two players, but I think the margin between a CB that would currently command a fee of let's say 50M and Lovren/Matip isn't especially large these days. Hell, Virgil's fee almost seems like a bargain these days for what is being mooted as a fee for Koulibaly or De Ligt. Do you want to spend 50m on a fourth choice defender? 50m on a fourth choice attacker? Is the gap between our fourth and fifth choice midfielder and someone we could buy for 50m large enough to justify the expenditure?
 

Kenny Dalglish LFC Legend

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Ok keeping on topic.

We have a minimum of five competitions next season (including the Community Shield match), possibly 7 (including Super Cup and World Club Cup).

We could easily find a title challenge derailed without quality depth.


IMO we need 20 usable senior outfield players.

If we are looking to really kick on and compete on all fronts, address our issues (over-reliance on certain players, injury prone centre backs, no genuine rotation at full back and up front), for me we'd be upgrading four players.

De Ligt (for Lovren), a versatile full back (for Moreno), an attacking midfielder (for Lallana) and a forward (for Sturridge).
With you it's like groundhog day. I'm continually reading the same post over and over again.
Derailed? What like the season we just had.
 

Kenny Dalglish LFC Legend

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I think we need left back cover, and an attacker.
Our midfield is excellent. And will get better. That post about mechanics and what the rest don't know jabber jabber from that chap who opened a new account. I'm assuming he knows he's in the don't know camp.