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Who would you buy?

lfc.8

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This is something you hear a lot, and it isn’t a fair criticism. There is little more Klopp could do to win a trophy. Under him we’ve got to three finals and posted a ninety seven point season. You also need luck as well.
Not sure who's criticising Klopp. But criticism towards the club and owners is a bit different when looking at their tenure as a whole. No doubt Klopp, certainly in part has turned the club around. Perhaps Edwards deserves some credit as well.

As for luck sure, but we need to improve the team so luck is the least of our worries. Midfield starting eleven needs improving, another top quality forward to go with the front three, plus another centre back and fullback.

The club hasn't spent all that much either on a relative basis and a few key signings shouldn't be too ambitious. Hopefully this happens.
 
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JibJab

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Carra saying that we should sign Coutinho.

I don't think Klopp would take him back.
I think Coutinho has too much pride to tuck his tail between his legs and come back to Anfield.
 

redfanman

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When you own a business that operates as a separate legal entity to its owner company, you can extract cash from the owned company to the owner company via inter company charges, whilst making a loss in the owned company.

You can also divert revenues between owned companies in the group, for example having FSM arrange commercial deals for LFC and taking 30% before LFC sees the money.
The figure is open for debate. My estimate would be that in order to extract say 10% of LFC's total revenue, they'd need to take about 30% of the commercial element of that total turnover.

But having a third party, which they happen to own, one which is based in the US, arrange commercial deals on LFC's behalf subject to a X% commission, is the easiest way to do it, and indeed the most discreet way.

That way they book the money elsewhere in their group before it hits LFCs accounts.

It is the diametric opposite to what City are trying to do. Their owners are trying to find ways to get money into the club to use for transfers, ours are probably using the method outlined to take it out, reducing the money in the club, and the turnover that FFP spend calculations are based on.
Yes, but you have no evidence that is what is happening at an extreme level. While it is highly possible FSG may have the club paying at the top end of the market to outsource it's commercial work, what evidence is there that FSG is taking 30% before the club sees any money?

First of all you have been using this line of argument for several years.

We know H&G werent pocketing commercial revenues before they came into the club, and that commercial revenue growth wasnt great during their tenure.

When FSG took over, the club's finances were in a bit of a state and they've found it difficult pre=klopp to grow the commercial revenues. Now, you will probably argue that they were growing them, but were taking much of that growth.

However, we can see what the sort of companies that have been signing deals with the club are - and these have usually not been top tier companies - such as Dunkin Donuts, so the money they pay to the club wont be top tier level payments either.

Secondly, we know FSG have been looking for outside investors. Pocketing money in that way is going to be a red flag to those potential investors, and also reduces the value of the club.

Furthermore, without the exposure from winnng things and being in the Champions League regularly and having a fanbase that probably doesnt have the disposable income other top clubs in England may have it's quite reasonable to assume that the potential sponsors havent found us an attractive proposition.

I dont know if you are suggesting they are deliberately trying to lower the turnover that FFP calculations are based on, but again, i think there is clear evidence to suggest that isnt the case - They have invested in the playing squad and came close to being fined for breaching those FFP limits.
 

Ballymun Red

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Carra saying that we should sign Coutinho.

I don't think Klopp would take him back.
I think Coutinho has too much pride to tuck his tail between his legs and come back to Anfield.
screw him, decided the grass was greener and left us in the lurch mid season.

barca would want atleast half what they paid and hes not a 60m player imo.

we've been better since he left anyway,cant run and slows the game too much.
 

legalalien

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Talking about re-signing former players, what about getting Pepe Reina back in as a replacement for Migs? He seems to be angling for that:
“I’m probably the number one fan. It’s home. I was there eight years - nine with the season I was on loan with Napoli. I consider Liverpool my home and it will always be like that. It’s what they say; once a Red, always a Red.”
 

PaulRoJo

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Talking about re-signing former players, what about getting Pepe Reina back in as a replacement for Migs? He seems to be angling for that:
“I’m probably the number one fan. It’s home. I was there eight years - nine with the season I was on loan with Napoli. I consider Liverpool my home and it will always be like that. It’s what they say; once a Red, always a Red.”
Would be happy with this. Good backup for a season or two, haven't followed his Italian form but better suited to us than mignolet and has dressing room presence; get money for migs who seems like a quiet lad who doesn't add much off the pitch; potential coaching role after that?
 

Sweeting

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Talking about re-signing former players, what about getting Pepe Reina back in as a replacement for Migs? He seems to be angling for that:
“I’m probably the number one fan. It’s home. I was there eight years - nine with the season I was on loan with Napoli. I consider Liverpool my home and it will always be like that. It’s what they say; once a Red, always a Red.”
Would be a much more natural replacement for Allison than Mignolet, and we could actually make a profit from selling Migs and buying Reina. Makes sense to me.
 

The Elusive 19th

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Let's say we want to pick 2 from below list of players to add to our squad. How would you rate these folks, and who would you pick and what's your rationale for that.
Wilson
Brandt
Havertz
Ziyech
Fraser
Neres
Pepe
Bergwijn
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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GK; Alisson, Reina, Kelleher. Mignolet sold, Bogdan released, Karius loaned to buy still and Grabara development loan.

CB; VvD, Gomez, Tah, Matip, Hoever. Lovren sold and Phillips development loan.

FB; Alexander-Arnold, Robertson, Henrichs, Milner. Clyne sold, Moreno released, Randall released, Camacho contract extended then development loan and Lewis development loan.

CM; Fabinho, Henderson, Keita, Wijnaldum, Milner, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Wilson. Jones development loan, Allan sold, Lallana sold and Grujic sold.

Forwards; Firmino, Salah, Mane, Sancho, Shaqiri, Brewster, Origi. Sturridge released, Ings sold, Kent sold, Ojo sold and Awoniyi sold.

Sancho, Henrichs, Tah and Reina shouldn't cost more than £175 million.

Mignolet, Lovren, Clyne, Grujic, Lallana, Ings, Kent, Ojo and Awoniyi sales should raise over £100 million of that.
 

indianscouser

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Two or three players in our squad today which we will find it hard to have a backup if he's out. Van Dijk, Alisson and Salah. We've coped rather well without Firmino in the last two games and it's down to Klopp pushing Henderson higher up, which helped in our pressing game. But Salah might be hard to replace, but not harder than Van Dijk and Alisson. Now those two will be near impossible to find a backup that don't compromise our quality at all.
Agree, those two would be very very difficult.
But if we do sign de ligt? Won't it be a good step in covering for VVD? Him and Gomez would be a good option to have.
As for alisson, we can never have two world class gk, as both would want game time. The only team which I recollect had , was Chelsea, when they signed courtois and cech had to be benched.
 

Lovejoy122876

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The figure is open for debate. My estimate would be that in order to extract say 10% of LFC's total revenue, they'd need to take about 30% of the commercial element of that total turnover.

They clearly can't take cuts of TV monies paid directly to the club, as the contract is between two UK based legal entities, LFC and the Premier League.

Matchday revenues are also earned in the UK.

But having a third party, which they happen to own, one which is based in the US, arrange commercial deals on LFC's behalf subject to a X% commission, is the easiest way to do it, and indeed the most discreet way.

That way they book the money elsewhere in their group before it hits LFCs accounts.

Personally I don't believe a club of the size of LFC (£400m turnover), with our profile, with an in-house team commercial team that LFC now has, needs the help of a third party agency. Using FSM in these circumstances can only be about revenue extraction. Hogan and Moore could easily do these deals themselves.

It is the diametric opposite to what City are trying to do. Their owners are trying to find ways to get money into the club to use for transfers, ours are probably using the method outlined to take it out, reducing the money in the club, and the turnover that FFP spend calculations are based on.
I think you may be missing out on something here.

FSG have a strategy which is to drive renenue and profit by having a successful team.

They attempt to do that by being incredibly efficient in everything they do both on the commercial side and on the playing side

We have now, thanks to their support and knowledge a great commercial setup. We are in control of our finances and we are becomming successful.

Its a process and it takes time, its been built on hard work and keeping strictly to a clear strategy, in which all of those involved believe.

I dont think that without the shared knowledge and culture of FSG LFC coukd have turned this around

Man U seem to be without a single strategy or vision and with the same money as Man C they are a bit rubbish and going backwards

Commercially they are no where near as hard and unyieldingly focused as we have been with FSG support

There is so much more here than just money.
 

Iluvatar

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Let's say we want to pick 2 from below list of players to add to our squad. How would you rate these folks, and who would you pick and what's your rationale for that.
Wilson
Brandt
Havertz
Ziyech
Fraser
Neres
Pepe
Bergwijn
He's going to be a global superstar. The rest could become top class players, but Havertz really could be something special.
 

bazza66

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He's going to be a global superstar. The rest could become top class players, but Havertz really could be something special.
Yes, agree with this. In fact, I'd say that Havartz pisses all over Coutinho from a great height. Zyech is getting a lot of attention but I've got the same feeling you have that this lad could be about to mature into something special.

He's still young (20 years) and looks like he has the strength of character that Tiny Tears Phil lacks. Strong, quick-thinking (doesn't slow attacks down, far from it), links up really well with the wide men, and can operate wide himself. He looks strong, though not sure how that would compare to English football physicality. I read he played some games in the central midfield, so he was trusted to handle himself.
 

lfc.eddie

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Agree, those two would be very very difficult.
But if we do sign de ligt? Won't it be a good step in covering for VVD? Him and Gomez would be a good option to have.
As for alisson, we can never have two world class gk, as both would want game time. The only team which I recollect had , was Chelsea, when they signed courtois and cech had to be benched.
Agree on the keeper, but unsure on that de Ligt fella. He’s been raved a fair bit by pundits and fans in general. I have only seen him in Champions League and he doesn’t give me that assures confidence as I do with Van Dijk or even Gomez. Maybe he’s just too young. I am also not impressed with his supposedly leadership he has, especially after watching how they crack under pressure by Spurs. Again he’s young, but some how I feel this one if moved away from Ajax too early might go into the overhyped basket I am afraid.
 
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Cologne-Liverpool

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I'd still prefer Sancho personally. Really hope we aren't considering Tah though.
Leverkusen are determined to keep Havertz for at least another season, his contract runs til 2022 so they don't have to sell him now, I think it would probably need a pretty obscene amount of money to get him in the summer.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Sancho alone will cost us £100m, but is that worth the price, when Luke Jovic is only £50m?
In my eyes we don't need a CF. Firmino and Mane as false 9 style and Salah and Origi as more direct options with Brewster as a development option. Yes we could bring in a CF and it might bring slight improvements to the numbers from that position but I don't believe it would improve our teams performance. At the moment we need Salah and Mane to play 90+% of our games to be successful. We need to be able to rest them, allow them to play CF and cover for their injuries without harming our play. So yeah I think Sancho would have twice as good an effect for us as Jovic even if he scored less goals.
 

Zoran

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Tah always looked a bit too fat/heavy to me anyway, never really understood the hype over him all these years. As a somewhat different example, just look at some pics of Gomez in his first year or two here and compare it to now. Different man. Lost the beach body.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Tah always looked a bit too fat/heavy to me anyway, never really understood the hype over him all these years. As a somewhat different example, just look at some pics of Gomez in his first year or two here and compare it to now. Different man. Lost the beach body.
So if Klopp did that for Gomez can't he do it for Tah? The thing is that for Klopp CBs they've got to meet certain traits. Tall/good in the air, physically robust, quick on the floor, good with ball distribution and confident amongst other traits. I remember there were some unconvinced over VvD as they thought he wasn't that special and unproven on the top levels. But he was a perfect match for the attributes we need at CB. So he was a huge success. I'm not sure Tah will work for us but he seems to meet the attributes we need and I think he'd work a lot better in our system than in other teams systems.
 

spartacus136

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I'd still prefer Sancho personally. Really hope we aren't considering Tah though.
Leverkusen are determined to keep Havertz for at least another season, his contract runs til 2022 so they don't have to sell him now, I think it would probably need a pretty obscene amount of money to get him in the summer.
How does Bailey this season? His speed and power are impressive, one of rarely player could compare with Mane's physical imo. But I don't watch him enough to know more about his game play.
 

lfc.eddie

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I'd still prefer Sancho personally. Really hope we aren't considering Tah though.
Leverkusen are determined to keep Havertz for at least another season, his contract runs til 2022 so they don't have to sell him now, I think it would probably need a pretty obscene amount of money to get him in the summer.
If he doesn't move till summer 2021, I suspect he would be signing a pre-contract with non other than Bayern Munich. They tend to collect talented Germans.
 

Neukolln

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Leverkusen are determined to keep Havertz for at least another season, his contract runs til 2022 so they don't have to sell him now, I think it would probably need a pretty obscene amount of money to get him in the summer.
If he doesn't move till summer 2021, I suspect he would be signing a pre-contract with non other than Bayern Munich. They tend to collect talented Germans.
Leverkusen are an exciting side on the rise, and with them earning CL footy I don't know why Havertz and Brandt would want to leave right now unless it's strictly for massive wage increases. It's a really cool situation for them. Havertz is a superstar in the making and when/if the time comes he's available, I agree with Eddie, I am sure Bayern will do anything to keep him in Germany. IMO there will be no number to high for them to pay for the player.
 

Danny Sarge

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Now that Kompany's called it a day, I would definitely go in for De Ligt with no messing, as if we don't I guarantee City will.
 



ABRed

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Apparently we've "been in talks" with ajax if you listen to that Spanish lad balague.

Amazing if true.
 

Hope in your heart

Loyalty and patience, two undervalued concepts...
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I understand where Carra is coming from, I understand people who are asking for signings. Frankly, Man City have skewed our perception a bit (a lot) given that they've essentially cheated their way to trophies by buying almost two quality elevens.

Finding a player like Mane is easier said than done, though. A lot of players will look at Liverpool's front three and think "yeah, I'm not getting into that". I presume that's why Klopp wants to stick with Origi, he understood what he was up against and didn't wilt under pressure. That said, I'd really like Klopp to sign a versatile winger (because I feel Liverpool need that kind of player) but he's earned my trust, if he thinks he's better off with what he has, I have no big issues with that.

Also, I think it's not far-fetched to say that Klopp's biggest new signings for this summer are already at Liverpool. What we wouldn't give to have AOC fully and consistently fit and firing, as well as Brewster, a forward with pace to burn and instinct for goal? Also, Gomez, who missed a half of the season, and Keita, who's had a stop-start season, are firmly in the "new signings" bracket for me. Also, Wilson perhaps? Fitness of such players is invaluable, even more than new signings. Also, there's a clear path for certain youngsters (Hoever, Larouci, Rhys Williams, perhaps even Jones), and promoting youngsters should be a cornerstone of every big club.

I really hope Klopp can solve two or three glaring holes in the squad this summer but it's not a straightforward process. I'm very pleased with what he's done so far, even if I didn't understand a few of his decisions. If there are no significant injuries and certain players keep improving (the aforementioned four especially, as well as Shaqiri, potentially even Wilson), Liverpool will probably be alright.
Very good post. Another thing I'd add to this, is that people tend to underestimate how the whole squad is quite young and hasn't reached peak-level yet. Players are on a progress-curve in the whole, also in the understanding of what they have to do, and how they play together.
  • Keita, fitness permitting, will be a lot stronger next season.
  • Shaqiri has needed time to adapt to Klopp's ways as well. I'm convinced that we will see more playing time for him next season.
  • Ox will be like a new signing for us, fingers crossed that he can go back at 100% and stay there, he was wonderful last season.
  • Fabinho, although having performed very well, has just his first PL season under his belly. There is a lot of room for improvement for him too.
When you look at those four players only, you see how the squad can improve in quality, and that's without taking into account that several of our young players will be a year older, stronger, and more experienced. Good times ahead! :-)
 

JibJab

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I would be shocked if we were actually in on De Ligt or Havertz. Either one would command the biggest fee we've ever paid for a player.

Liverpool are going to be used as leverage by clubs looking to drive up the price of their players regardless of whether we're actually interested or not. So, I'll believe it when I see it.