Who would you buy?

Anfield rd Dreamer

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I'm taking it personally because Kopstar started off by implying that it was foolish/illogical for me to be be surprised at the notion that they'd break the bank for De Ligt/Havertz because they've broken it in the past for Alisson/VVD etc etc. That kind of response is only designed to mock a person because he smart enough to know that our past expenditures on VVD/Alisson/etc have little to do with whether we're willing to spend 30-50% more on De Ligt or Havertz.

I don't mind disagreement or differing POVs because we're just having fun speculating about an intriguing window to come. But you can have a conversation without making a silly, disingenuous point designed to put someone else down.
I think it came across that way because you were so forceful and definitive with your initial statements. Let's be clear nothing we do or don't do this summer will make Klopp a liar because the way he (probably purposefully) phrased his statement was so open. What he expects? What are his intentions? What is he going to try? Does he expect owning clubs to be problematic to deal with? It's such a misleading and open statement.
 

JibJab

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Nothing wrong with taking what the manager said publicly as literal as @JibJab. He isn’t choosing what to believe and what not to believe with what Klopp said in public, good on him. Not necessary having an open day gang-up to put him down. He even provided quotes from the manager, and he’s not assuming anything. That to me is harder to argue than assuming Klopp is pissing about with the media and those things he said aren’t true.
Yes. I understand that Klopp isn't going to reveal his full plans to the media, and perhaps he still hopes to go out and make that kind of massive purchase. But that statement is not the only reason why I'd be surprised by a massive investment in De Ligt or Havertz (or anyone else commanding 100m+). It's the circumstances of the club - one that has already made huge investments over the past few windows - one that had one of the greatest seasons in the history of the EPL. It's reports by Paul Joyce in which he claims that the "The view at Liverpool is that the team is effectively complete." It's my belief in Klopp's desire to develop his own players instead of dipping into the transfer market for huge expenditures every summer.
 

lfc.eddie

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Yes. I understand that Klopp isn't going to reveal his full plans to the media, and perhaps he still hopes to go out and make that kind of massive purchase. But that statement is not the only reason why I'd be surprised by a massive investment in De Ligt or Havertz (or anyone else commanding 100m+). It's the circumstances of the club - one that has already made huge investments over the past few windows - one that had one of the greatest seasons in the history of the EPL. It's reports by Paul Joyce in which he claims that the "The view at Liverpool is that the team is effectively complete." It's my belief in Klopp's desire to develop his own players instead of dipping into the transfer market for huge expenditures every summer.
Klopp is also not the type that splurged for the sake of it either. I too won’t be counting on us splashing money like last summer. If we did bring Mbappe in the process, I be a very happy man... haha.
 

JibJab

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I think it came across that way because you were so forceful and definitive with your initial statements. Let's be clear nothing we do or don't do this summer will make Klopp a liar because the way he (probably purposefully) phrased his statement was so open. What he expects? What are his intentions? What is he going to try? Does he expect owning clubs to be problematic to deal with? It's such a misleading and open statement.
Excuse me? All I said was that I - me, myself - would be shocked if we were actually in on De Ligt or Havertz. I didn't say that Klopp would or would not buy one of them, nor did I mock anyone else for feeling differently. I just offered my own personal sense that we were being used as leverage by other clubs looking to drive up the price of their players regardless of whether we're actually interested or not, and that I'll believe that we're actually interested when I see specific, reliable evidence of it.

Yes, I'll own being definitive of my own state of mind. I'd be worried if I wasn't.
 

Kopstar

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Once again, you're misattributing a statement in order to make a point that is irrelevant. I never said Klopp would be surprised. I said I would be surprised - for reasons I've subsequently explained that include, but are not limited to, Klopp's public statements about his lack of expectation that the club would spend big money this summer.

Your claim that we've broken previous transfer records are irrelevant. The 36.9m we spent on Salah two years ago has little to do with whether we're spending 100m+ on Havertz or De Ligt, and it borders on disingenuous to even bring it up, which leads me to believe that you're just having a go at me for no reason.

You don't agree with my belief that the club isn't going to spend 100M+ on De Ligt or Havertz? You have a different POV? Fine! No problem there. We're just speculating, after all. But don't treat me like I'm an idiot just for having a reasonably different sense of what we'll do this summer.
Eh? Who said anything about how Klopp would feel? Presumably (hopefully) none of our transfers will take Klopp by surprise?!

It was your statement (below) that I questioned; why would you be shocked if we broke our transfer record (again)?

I would be shocked if we were actually in on De Ligt or Havertz. Either one would command the biggest fee we've ever paid for a player.

Liverpool are going to be used as leverage by clubs looking to drive up the price of their players regardless of whether we're actually interested or not. So, I'll believe it when I see it.
After a record breaking season that will generate the club's highest ever revenues, why would you be shocked if we broke our transfer record again?

To support your position that you'd be "shocked" if we did, you said

Yes. What, you expect us to continue to do this over and over again every window? That seems logical, especially as Klopp has specifically stated that he doesn't expect any big signings this offseason.
But he hasn't actually said that, has he?

Just seen that you posted this earlier though.

Sure. And Kopstar will crow about how it is in totally expected for the club to spend 300M on a player when we hadn't spent 40M on a player as of two years ago.
Ignore.
 

JibJab

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Eh? Who said anything about how Klopp would feel? Presumably (hopefully) none of our transfers will take Klopp by surprise?!

It was your statement (below) that I questioned; why would you be shocked if we broke our transfer record (again)?



After a record breaking season that will generate the club's highest ever revenues, why would you be shocked if we broke our transfer record again?

To support your position that you'd be "shocked" if we did, you said



But he hasn't actually said that, has he?

Just seen that you posted this earlier though.



Ignore.
I've already explained this line-by-line to you, and as you've allegedly put me on ignore (and have been disingenuous and disrespectful to me since this discussion began), I'm not inclined to do so again. Go back and read my posts if you're actually interested in doing more than mocking me. I have more respect for people who engage with me sincerely - even if we disagree - than people who choose to mock others without provocation. :well done:
 

Iluvatar

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I reckon it's someone's time of the month
My post wasn’t directed at 1 person, more it seems a pointless argument about second (or not) guessing Klopp, with a few stirring the pot for good measure.

The man has always caveated the shit out of any statement, read into that whatever you wish. Not daft is Mr Klopp.
 

moodle

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City set up differently to us, so their requirements in midfield also differ somewhat.

Hendo and Milner are criminally under rated by some of our own fans. Yes, we can improve on them - but they are not as bad as many want us to believe.
Henderson and Milner are not bad players, But they're not players who can control a game, and in midfield that's a large part of the responsibility. They're grafters, and I like both of them for what they bring to the personality of the team, but they lack a couple of fundamental attributes which you just can't ignore, things which are foundational; technique and IQ. Milner more technique and Henderson more IQ.

Fabinho is a fantastic player. He fulfills that role's requirements perfectly, and IMO his omission in the game at the Etihad was once of the mistakes of the season. Keita is the next in the chain, the transition player. Potentially he's world class. And Chamberlain is the next after that, the one who can break the forward line. both Keita and Chamberlain can break the lines, and this is crucial to opening space and creating clear chances, as well as bypassing pressure and keeping possession. They both have the ability to face the play and force players into mistakes.

Henderson or Milner can't do this, and whether we set up the same as city or not, all managers will want more control over situations, not less.

Alex has been out for a whole year and there's no guarantee a player ever fully recovers from that type of injury for the long term, unfortunately, or whether it's likely to happen again. Neither do we know how Keita will be regarding injuries and form. Gini Winaldum is a solid technical intelligent link player, and one who is glue in that midfield, especially when he's in confident form. He's a long termer for me no doubt. But that's exactly what he is, a link. He needs players directly around him to provide the other parts of the equation. He rarely breaks lines and he doesn't weigh in with that many goals. But a technical player nonetheless.

Is that good enough to go into the next season with?

It's not even a question for me. We need to invest in that midfield. For me it's a hugely positive thing by the way. That we have done what we've done with such a limited ability to control games makes the potential for what we could do pretty fucking incredible if we add some world class players to that midfield. It's the final part of the equation in my opinion.
 
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JibJab

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If FSG is willing to finance the purchase of Havertz or De Ligt. I'll be thrilled to see either one of them on this club next season. I don't know if anyone could score on a Robbo - De Ligt - van Dijk - Trent defense with Alisson giving them cover. I've been following Havertz for a couple years now - he's effectively my dream addition to our midfield - and it's clear he has the quality to improve this club.

So my pessimism about the "links" to pursuit of them should not be read as a belief that I wouldn't love us to sign them. Just adding one would be a massive statement of intent by this club.
 

Dimitriy

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I'm taking it personally because Kopstar started off by implying that it was foolish/illogical for me to be be surprised at the notion that they'd break the bank for De Ligt/Havertz because they've broken it in the past for Alisson/VVD etc etc. That kind of response is only designed to mock a person because he smart enough to know that our past expenditures on VVD/Alisson/etc have little to do with whether we're willing to spend 30-50% more on De Ligt or Havertz.

I don't mind disagreement or differing POVs because we're just having fun speculating about an intriguing window to come. But you can have a conversation without making a silly, disingenuous point designed to put someone else down.
...I don't mind disagreement or differing POVs because we're just having fun speculating about an intriguing window to come. But you can have a conversation without making a silly, disingenuous point designed to put someone else down.
A dull period, "before the storm", and you just wrote few words, call it even speculation, about what Klopp said in a presser, and it needlessly went astride.
I think all of us/we realize, that in order to go one step further we need to "up the ante" !
- The possibility of city, doing one more, on about the same number of points is a reality. On the other side, what we acomplished, is a small miracle. The possibility, of us repeating it, would be a paramount act, and I think, us reaching around 90 points is reality also !!!
That's where our dreams lay :), without burning the players out !
That's, one step further.
I am certain, that if asked, any member of the forum (even the ITK's), would say - We are a couple of signings away...The cost is somewhere around 100-150 ml pounds
...In economy, the best type of competition is when two entities compete "on par" (Real/Barca). In this moment of time we are in position to emulate the same, and ensure our status, for quite some time in the future (Barca, since they won the first CL in the 90's, was an understudy to Real...but then...) If we go the same lenght next year, we will be them, noone would even consider leaving...more revenues, and continuos updating of the squad
- If Mandy gets in the first team (injury free) they, will be stronger next year just by adding him
- As the papers write, Sane will be gone (he didn't contribute much, this time around), and will be replaced at least on par
- They will get Rodri (Atl.Madrid)...and some more - "Sponsorships" is their virtue:unhappy:
Us...
- We get AOC back. He will be very important !
- Keita and Fab will improve significantly...it is evident !
But, we need that special number 10... the influece of Hendo in the last period may sway Klopp, but when city starts buying...we will act also.
The mere "audacity" :) of talking to De Ligt...What was said from Klopp, are just few words in the ethar...If Der Ligt says - I choose Liverpool FC, we will robb a bank, and splash it in cash..if necessary. And it would be a record signing for a 19 year old (apart maybe from the gymnastics with Neymar)
@JibJab...All the best !:well done:
 

ILLOK

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I don't know if anyone could score on a Robbo - De Ligt - van Dijk - Trent defense with Alisson giving them cover.
I highly doubt we'd see an improvement in the short term with regards to our first 11. Matip's recent performances and Gomez' early in the season were outstanding, De Ligt wouldn't be any noticeably better than that.

That said, he's a better and more reliable 4th choice option than Lovren and would certainly improve that group of 4. The main arguments for buying him though for me would be our long term stability and simply to stop our competitors getting him.
 

Sweeting

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...I don't mind disagreement or differing POVs because we're just having fun speculating about an intriguing window to come. But you can have a conversation without making a silly, disingenuous point designed to put someone else down.
A dull period, "before the storm", and you just wrote few words, call it even speculation, about what Klopp said in a presser, and it needlessly went astride.
I think all of us/we realize, that in order to go one step further we need to "up the ante" !
- The possibility of city, doing one more, on about the same number of points is a reality. On the other side, what we acomplished, is a small miracle. The possibility, of us repeating it, would be a paramount act, and I think, us reaching around 90 points is reality also !!!
That's where our dreams lay :), without burning the players out !
That's, one step further.
I am certain, that if asked, any member of the forum (even the ITK's), would say - We are a couple of signings away...The cost is somewhere around 100-150 ml pounds
...In economy, the best type of competition is when two entities compete "on par" (Real/Barca). In this moment of time we are in position to emulate the same, and ensure our status, for quite some time in the future (Barca, since they won the first CL in the 90's, was an understudy to Real...but then...) If we go the same lenght next year, we will be them, noone would even consider leaving...more revenues, and continuos updating of the squad
- If Mandy gets in the first team (injury free) they, will be stronger next year just by adding him
- As the papers write, Sane will be gone (he didn't contribute much, this time around), and will be replaced at least on par
- They will get Rodri (Atl.Madrid)...and some more - "Sponsorships" is their virtue:unhappy:
Us...
- We get AOC back. He will be very important !
- Keita and Fab will improve significantly...it is evident !
But, we need that special number 10... the influece of Hendo in the last period may sway Klopp, but when city starts buying...we will act also.
The mere "audacity" :) of talking to De Ligt...What was said from Klopp, are just few words in the ethar...If Der Ligt says - I choose Liverpool FC, we will robb a bank, and splash it in cash..if necessary. And it would be a record signing for a 19 year old (apart maybe from the gymnastics with Neymar)
@JibJab...All the best !:well done:
I don't think Mendy will be in City's first team next season, he's more likely to leave. It has been reported that Guardiola has lost patience with him and his antics (going to Barcelona v Liverpool in the CL without telling the club, leaving to go an watch NBA in the US when he was supposed to be doing rehab work at the club etc)

They've bid £60m for Leicester's full back apparently so they must be desperate.
 

ILLOK

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I don't think Mendy will be in City's first team next season, he's more likely to leave. It has been reported that Guardiola has lost patience with him and his antics (going to Barcelona v Liverpool in the CL without telling the club, leaving to go an watch NBA in the US when he was supposed to be doing rehab work at the club etc)

They've bid £60m for Leicester's full back apparently so they must be desperate.
That'd make it just the £185 million spent on fullbacks by Guardiola then. Genius.
 

JibJab

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I highly doubt we'd see an improvement in the short term with regards to our first 11. Matip's recent performances and Gomez' early in the season were outstanding, De Ligt wouldn't be any noticeably better than that.
Well, this is part of the reason why I am a bit pessimistic about our links to De Ligt - I agree that Matip/Gomez did an excellent job alongside Virgil this season and a 100M expenditure may not offer enough of a return on investment. However, the arguments in favor of a De Ligt signing is that he's young and likely to improve, and Matip/Gomez/Lovren have all had issues with injuries throughout their careers. It would also enable them to give Virgil a rest now and then, as De Ligt could effectively cover for him.

I'd prefer Havertz, though.
 

jackh1092

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Is Havertz the ideal type of midfielder we need?

I see that twitter has now decided Depay is signing. Highlights reel full of superb goals and fancy flicks, thought he was going to be the dogs balls for the Mancs. Not convinced on him now personally, might be a decent back-up.
 

Dimitriy

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I don't think Mendy will be in City's first team next season, he's more likely to leave. It has been reported that Guardiola has lost patience with him and his antics (going to Barcelona v Liverpool in the CL without telling the club, leaving to go an watch NBA in the US when he was supposed to be doing rehab work at the club etc)

They've bid £60m for Leicester's full back apparently so they must be desperate.
Didn't know that...I mentioned him, because of his ability, before the injury...As you say... they will just splash £60m, with no wories at all
 

Scott Jones

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Is Havertz the ideal type of midfielder we need?

I see that twitter has now decided Depay is signing. Highlights reel full of superb goals and fancy flicks, thought he was going to be the dogs balls for the Mancs. Not convinced on him now personally, might be a decent back-up.
Expensive for a might be a decent back up,i reckon he's more likely to have a platinum hit rap record than come here.
 

jackh1092

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Expensive for a might be a decent back up,i reckon he's more likely to have a platinum hit rap record than come here.
35-40 Million i'd have thought? Not too bad in the current market. The good thing about him would be his ability to play in all 3 positions across the front line. Bad things are quite a long list too though!
 

MW2833

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35-40 Million i'd have thought? Not too bad in the current market. The good thing about him would be his ability to play in all 3 positions across the front line. Bad things are quite a long list too though!
Think Bayer Leverkusen would demand closer to 60 million, but there is no doubt that he is a fantastic signing, I can see him turning into a Firmino-like false 9 player/striker if he comes here, as well as being able to provide wing cover and midfield creativity.
 

jackh1092

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Think Bayer Leverkusen would demand closer to 60 million, but there is no doubt that he is a fantastic signing, I can see him turning into a Firmino-like false 9 player/striker if he comes here, as well as being able to provide wing cover and midfield creativity.

The 35-40 was in relation to Depay!

I agree on what you say in regards to Havertz tho.
 

Scott Jones

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Think Bayer Leverkusen would demand closer to 60 million, but there is no doubt that he is a fantastic signing, I can see him turning into a Firmino-like false 9 player/striker if he comes here, as well as being able to provide wing cover and midfield creativity.
Lyon.
 

Iluvatar

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That'd make it just the £185 million spent on fullbacks by Guardiola then. Genius.
And there is the great difference between Klopp and Pep. Imagine spending £50mil + on a player, fucking him off after 1 season and spending another £50mil and having the ability to do that in every single position on the pitch if you want. It's football manager with the editor enabled.
 

Red over the water

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The last couple of pages prove one thing to me: We need a game!

The exchange seems a bit of blather over nothing much, really. We don’t know how much we will spend, or if we will spend big on an individual player. The record thing loses oomph as each season goes by and costs go up and up.

If the right player is there e.g. Havertz, and the money required means we have to break our record, I’m sure it’s a possibility. Equally the right player might come in at less than our record e.g. Bergwijn at £40M or so.

I suspect there will be a few signings, and we are all there or there about in the positions where we need to strengthen. Let’s see how it all unfolds.

In the meantime we need the final to come around a bit quicker, as there’s only so much you can say about cheating Man City before we start have a little go at each other on here!
 

Dutch

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Can you quantify these points please?

How is De Ligt an improvement over Matip (currently) or Gomez (prospectively) ?
Joe Gomez is faster an further in his development as de Ligt. We have no reason to spend that much money on a young CB. Spend the money on a 4th world class attacker.
 

Kopstar

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Moral of the story, don't question why a poster will be shocked if we spent £76m on a player this summer. :eh?:

When you said it would come as a shock, :shocked:
For the club to spend at the top, ^
My question was not meant to mock, lol
But simply to ask, "Why ever not?" :think:

FFS.
 

Limiescouse

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Honestly, I WOULD be shocked if we bought De Ligt. It just seems like the sort of luxery purchase we are still 2-3 good windows away from being in the position to pursue.