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Who would you buy?

MW2833

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2018
Messages
675
The likes of Bernardo Silva and de bruyne will chase and hustle as hard as anyone, AND have world class technique to go with it. That's the barometer in the league right now, fortunately for us.
Henderson is the captain of the team in the CL final successive times
The other two are not or never have been in the CL final
 

Mousecat

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Messages
369
Come on then surprise me with a list of players better than Henderson.
If a list of players better than Henderson will surprise you, it'll probably be past your bedtime by the time you're done reading it.

And i don't want to get you in trouble
 

Scott Jones

Blunt
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Mar 8, 2016
Messages
16,383
Anyone chatting shit about Henderson after the season he and LFC have just had is taking the fucking piss,if Klopp had to sell a midfielder then i think Henderson would be last on the list to sell,Klopp loves him so what does that say.

Let's buy Mbappe.
 

Mousecat

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Messages
369
Anyone chatting shit about Henderson after the season he and LFC have just had is taking the fucking piss,if Klopp had to sell a midfielder then i think Henderson would be last on the list to sell,Klopp loves him so what does that say.

Let's buy Mbappe.
Sell him?

Who?

Where?
 

Mousecat

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Messages
369
It's funny this convo... a bit surreal even. I remember when I originally signed up here, telling people he wasnt right for the midfield. No-one would have it then. Was pretty much thrown out... wasn't an option for discussion. Fast forward a couple of years and that opinion was universal.

Now, i believe anyway, people have got better-round syndrome....

Sometimes in a boxing match, you'll find that if a fighter is being outclassed for a long period, he'll get the benefit of the scoring in a round where he does better than he did before.

It's not necessarily a round he won, and if that round was judged objectively, or say it came at the beginning of the fight, he might still have lost the round... albeit by a closer margin.

Its the contrast between what went prior which gives a flattering glow to what came next. You can see the influence it has when see the commentators scorecards after a good round. Even if, really, he probably didn't win.

Henderson came in for so much stick in that deeper role, that it's difficult for the stark contrast in his current role not to have an influential effect on people's opinion.

When you combine this with the type of player he is, such a hard worker, so emotional, and obviously fiercely committed to the team, it's hard for it not to incur an emotional response which incorporates all the prior criticism that he endured , and use it to validate over the top praise of him.

The objective and admittedly unpopular truth is that, while the positional change has freed him from being constantly exposed to his biggest weaknesses, and allowed him to express his main strengths, there are still some limitations which mean that he isn't an adequate replacement for other positions in the midfield.

Those limitations are still there. They haven't gone away.

My point from the beginning is simply that Liverpool can't rely on Henderson or Milner to do the job of players who have attributes that they simply don't have, and which are fundamental to a top class midfield.

They have attributes which can complement those, no doubt. But the key areas where they are weakest, are those exact areas which will impact us if are any point we are missing them.

Make no mistake, whatever your feelings are on these two players, they're not proper replacement if someone like keita, fabinho or ox is out injured. Where keitas ability to turn and face play, or transition from defence to attack might mitigate to some degree fabinho being out, or Chamberlain s ability to break lines and transition through midfield to attack might mitigate keitas absence, neither Henderson or Milner can provide those two things specifically and our midfield becomes static and heavily reliant on the fullbacks to provide creativity.

We need someone who is, in order to unlock rotation options for that central and creative midfield position. It's critical to next season.

I'm sure you'll see klopp feels the same way in this transfer window.
 
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KYRed18

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 16, 2018
Messages
218
It's funny this convo... a bit surreal even. I remember when I originally signed up here, telling people he wasnt right for the midfield. No-one would have it then. Was pretty much thrown out... wasn't an option for discussion. Fast forward a couple of years and that opinion was universal.

Now, i believe anyway, people have got better-round syndrom

Make no mistake, whatever your feelings are on these two players, they're not proper replacement if someone like keita, fabinho or ox is out injured. Where keitas ability to turn and face play, or transition from defence to attack might mitigate to some degree fabinho being out, or Chamberlain s ability to break lines and transition through midfield to attack might mitigate keitas absence, neither Henderson or Milner can provide those two things specifically and our midfield becomes static and heavily reliant on the fullbacks to provide creativity.
You're allowed to have your opinion here bud, but if you are going to sit on a high horse and say "mine is better than yours" people are not going to discuss with you. You attack, but ask others to not attack you and play victim. You dissent, but then get upset when others disagree with what you say. You're just difficult. I edited the length of your post for a particular reason,

1) To highlight the mentality you have that we are all out to get you because you don't rate Henderson. We are not, you don't have to rate him, just don't get mad if others do.

2) We fully rely on our fullbacks to create in our system. Tactically, we set up like that. Our wingers play inverted and fill pockets of space between narrowing the defense creating space for fullbacks to move up the field and create chances from dangerous angles. Our midfield is literally there to win the ball back after we lose it during our "gegenpress." I am far from the most tactically inclined person on this site; however, like Pep's team, we have a clear identity on how we play.
 

Mousecat

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Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Messages
369
Someone who can move with the ball, create, hold possession. First touch and technique and the ability to face play and bypass a press. doesn't matter which exact position.
 

Mousecat

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Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Messages
369
You're allowed to have your opinion here bud, but if you are going to sit on a high horse and say "mine is better than yours" people are not going to discuss with you. You attack, but ask others to not attack you and play victim. You dissent, but then get upset when others disagree with what you say. You're just difficult. I edited the length of your post for a particular reason,

1) To highlight the mentality you have that we are all out to get you because you don't rate Henderson. We are not, you don't have to rate him, just don't get mad if others do.

2) We fully rely on our fullbacks to create in our system. Tactically, we set up like that. Our wingers play inverted and fill pockets of space between narrowing the defense creating space for fullbacks to move up the field and create chances from dangerous angles. Our midfield is literally there to win the ball back after we lose it during our "gegenpress." I am far from the most tactically inclined person on this site; however, like Pep's team, we have a clear identity on how we play.
This post is more emotional than any of mine.

At this point im saying (and have said already) lets see what happens in this window. Its not relevant what you or I think. I get that.

Leave the victim bollocks to the city players on the team bus. That's their slang mate, not ours.
 

ILLOK

In the Danger Zone.
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
16,352
Someone who can move with the ball, create, hold possession. First touch and technique and the ability to face play and bypass a press. doesn't matter which exact position.
Okay, well we've got a couple of players who can do that already, so that helps. I agree, the midfield looks better with a player like that in it.

Where I disagree is your idea that there's no space for Henderson as an 8, or that's it's 'critical' he's replaced by that type of player. We've just gone throughout this season without Chamberlain and with Keita struggling for a lot of it, yet we've reached 97 points and a CL final. Our results and performances with Henderson in said role have been fantastic, so why he would be classed as 'inadequate' is beyond me. Had you said not 'ideal', I could have understood and that would have led to better discourse.

So no, it's definitely not 'critical' at all. Where this discussion loses interest is your determination to make this some major issue. It just isn't.

The issue is balancing the two 8s. Wijanldum and Milner as a pair didn't work well at all this season, and that was the main issue we had with our midfield. Most of our other midfield '3' combinations have looked pretty good. With Chamberlain coming back that should allow us an even better balanced group to pick from.

Another classy midfielder being signed would be excellent, I don't think you would find any opposition here against that. But the current group have done well too, and it's a little silly to suggest otherwise.
 

Mousecat

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Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Messages
369
Okay, well we've got a couple of players who can do that already, so that helps. I agree, the midfield looks better with a player like that in it.

Where I disagree is your idea that there's no space for Henderson as an 8, or that's it's 'critical' he's replaced by that type of player. We've just gone throughout this season without Chamberlain and with Keita struggling for a lot of it, yet we've reached 97 points and a CL final. Our results and performances with Henderson in said role have been fantastic, so why he would be classed as 'inadequate' is beyond me. Had you said not 'ideal', I could have understood and that would have led to better discourse.

So no, it's definitely not 'critical' at all. Where this discussion loses interest is your determination to make this some major issue. It just isn't.

The issue is balancing the two 8s. Wijanldum and Milner as a pair didn't work well at all this season, and that was the main issue we had with our midfield. Most of our other midfield '3' combinations have looked pretty good. With Chamberlain coming back that should allow us an even better balanced group to pick from.

Another classy midfielder being signed would be excellent, I don't think you would find any opposition here against that. But the current group have done well too, and it's a little silly to suggest otherwise.
I hear ya, but I'm sticking to my guns on this one. Lets see how the summer pans out. I'll be surprised if we don't invest in the midfield.

When I say critical, I mean thats the area which very nearly cost us a challenge at all this season... other areas of the team over achieved and compensated. That's my opinion. You can't rely on over clocking other areas of a machine as a long term plan.

Obviously you and others don't see That this is how it panned out, whereas I do. To me its clear actually.

History has proven forumites to be comprehensively wrong on the most fundamental of things in the past and it will do so again. Maybe me, maybe you lot. I'm happy with my own vision of the game and how it's lined up with our managers views over time, so lets see where it goes from here.

That's what it's all about eh? We stake our bets in the form of an opinion and then see what happens. Pretty cool I think. No need to carry it further than that. Nobody's gonna prove anything here and now.
 
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KYRed18

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Joined
May 16, 2018
Messages
218
The only thing you got was annoyed mate.

We disagree on this one thing. Not a big problem. There might be stuff we agree on in future.

Bye
It's not a problem at all. I didn't need to say that last line you quoted, hence I deleted the post. I do apologize about that. I'm really not bothered to be honest. People in Kentucky don't get bothered when there's bourbon in their future.
 

Kenny Dalglish LFC Legend

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Joined
May 12, 2016
Messages
572
I hear ya, but I'm sticking to my guns on this one. Lets see how the summer pans out. I'll be surprised if we don't invest in the midfield.

When I say critical, I mean thats the area which very nearly cost us a challenge at all this season... other areas of the team over achieved and compensated. That's my opinion. You can't rely on over clocking other areas of a machine as a long term plan.

Obviously you and others don't see That this is how it panned out, whereas I do. To me its clear actually.

History has proven forumites to be comprehensively wrong on the most fundamental of things in the past and it will do so again. Maybe me, maybe you lot. I'm happy with my own vision of the game and how it's lined up with our managers views over time, so lets see where it goes from here.

That's what it's all about eh? We stake our bets in the form of an opinion and then see what happens. Pretty cool I think. No need to carry it further than that. Nobody's gonna prove anything here and now.
Yep you're right mousepratt. See you in another couple of years.
 

Kopstar

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Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Messages
13,935
I hear ya, but I'm sticking to my guns on this one. Lets see how the summer pans out. I'll be surprised if we don't invest in the midfield.

When I say critical, I mean thats the area which very nearly cost us a challenge at all this season... other areas of the team over achieved and compensated. That's my opinion. You can't rely on over clocking other areas of a machine as a long term plan.

Obviously you and others don't see That this is how it panned out, whereas I do. To me its clear actually.

History has proven forumites to be comprehensively wrong on the most fundamental of things in the past and it will do so again. Maybe me, maybe you lot. I'm happy with my own vision of the game and how it's lined up with our managers views over time, so lets see where it goes from here.

That's what it's all about eh? We stake our bets in the form of an opinion and then see what happens. Pretty cool I think. No need to carry it further than that. Nobody's gonna prove anything here and now.
Those managers who have consistently rated Henderson as one of our most important players?
 

Mousecat

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Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Messages
369
Those managers who have consistently rated Henderson as one of our most important players?
Yea those ones.

They're always consistently rating stuff. Anything they get their hands on... They're rating it...

CONSISTENTLY
 

Red over the water

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May 13, 2018
Messages
2,787
We might sign a good, creative/attacking midfielder. If we do, great!

I think we have two of them who do their best work through the middle taking it to the opposition, and we didn't see anything of one of them this past season (Ox) and barely anything (Keita) of the other.

My best guess is Klopp will see what's what next season integrating the two of them more fully into his side.
 

JibJab

Mo Mane Mo' Problems
Joined
May 24, 2016
Messages
894
Hendo is a much better 8 than he was when he was slotted into the 6. Our worst performances in the midfield this year came with the Milner-Hendo-Wijnaldum axis. But Fabinho taking over the 6 made a big difference from my point of view.

I still think we could use a true #10, but I have hope that Ox will add a level of dynamism to our midfield that was lacking a points this season.