Who would you buy?

[William Clarke]

So are you agreeing that it isn't a fitting analogy?

Agree in that Robbo wasn't at the time a recognised international whereas de Ligt is, but the only point I was making is that the Dutchman would fit into our back line really well and only the high cost of his signature would be a stumbling block in us getting him - and of course Klopp wanting him.

 

[RedForever2014]

Matip has certainly transformed from Bambi on ice to Olympic winning ice skater in recent months.

I still worry about his injury record, but he does look more Varane than Traore right now.

That said, he's only a year left on his contract, and having done the Bosman with big signing on bonus when he left his last club to join us, maybe he's planning the same again.

We should always be looking ahead, always reducing risks to our chances of stability and success, and for me De Ligt remains viable as an upgrade on Lovren, especially given Matip's situation and Gomez's injury record.

 

[William Clarke]

Matip has certainly transformed from Bambi on ice to Olympic winning ice skater in recent months.

I still worry about his injury record, but he does look more Varane than Traore right now.

That said, he's only a year left on his contract, and having done the Bosman with big signing on bonus when he left his last club to join us, maybe he's planning the same again.

We should always be looking ahead, always reducing risks to our chances of stability and success, and for me De Ligt remains viable as an upgrade on Lovren, especially given Matip's situation and Gomez's injury record.

Do you think de Ligt's cost would be too exorbitant for our money chest?

 

[Red Spud]

Don't get him started hahaha

 

[William Clarke]

Don't get him started hahaha

lol lol In for a penny, as they say.

 

[Red over the water]

I think Lovren was more like 20M and Gomez closer to 3M.

Anyway, the point is well made that even though we have spent a lot of money in one or two positions, we have spent peanuts in others, so overall the defense is still a bargain.

 

[William Clarke]

I think Lovren was more like 20M and Gomez closer to 3M.

Anyway, the point is well made that even though we have spent a lot of money in one or two positions, we have spent peanuts in others, so overall the defense is still a bargain.

Absolutely agree with you although there will be those who will point to the money that was spent on bringing Virgil van Dijk to the club.

 

[Scott Jones]

Paying out of the arse for a player to replace Lovren seems barmy to me unless you're listing a broken leg as proof of being 'injury prone',fucking ridiculous.

 

[William Clarke]

Paying out of the arse for a player to replace Lovren seems barmy to me unless you're listing a broken leg as proof of being 'injury prone',fucking ridiculous.

If we are talking about Lovren, I have never made any pretence in thinking the man as a footballer is nothing but a pile of crap and not the world's greatest centre back as he believes himself to be. I would sell the bugger in a heartbeat - and at a knockdown price just to get quickly rid of the crap fecker.

p.s. Did I come over a little too strong then, do you think? :think:

 

[Keegans Perm]

Just goes to show how strong our team actually is at the moment with the amount of bickering about who we should bring in/drop. But its all been a good read looking at everyone's point of views and its certainly going to be an exciting summer with the choices we make with who to bring in.
I just think with the Fekir ordeal last summer that an AM is definitely on the cards. Maybe Klopp was uncertain on how well Hendo would play when being pushed further forward but he may have done enough to change Klopps original plans with how well he performed.
Like others, I certainly wouldnt grumble if we spent big on De Ligt, but I'd be extremely surprised if that happened, even though we have had injury problems at the back. God forbid if anything happened to Van Dijk, id feel much more at ease knowing De Ligt was there.
As I say though, im not sure who we will go for, but I guess thats why Klopp earns the big bucks. He'll know exactly what he wants and the majority of Liverpool fans will trust his judgement.
Exciting times ahead for this beast of a club.

 

[Scott Jones]

If we are talking about Lovren, I have never made any pretence in thinking the man as a footballer is nothing but a pile of crap and not the world's greatest centre back as he believes himself to be. I would sell the bugger in a heartbeat - and at a knockdown price just to get quickly rid of the crap fecker.

I'm talking about the over the top narrative of Gomez being written off as injury prone,does my fucking head in,he's quality and buying the Dutch kid would be writing Joe Gomez off which i think is stupid.

 

[Scott Jones]

If we are talking about Lovren, I have never made any pretence in thinking the man as a footballer is nothing but a pile of crap and not the world's greatest centre back as he believes himself to be. I would sell the bugger in a heartbeat - and at a knockdown price just to get quickly rid of the crap fecker.

p.s. Did I come over a little too strong then, do you think? :think:

He's not Moreno though is he,some would have you believe Lovren is as bad as Moreno,that's complete bollocks.

 

[William Clarke]

I'm talking about the over the top narrative of Gomez being written off as injury prone,does my fucking head in,he's quality and buying the Dutch kid would be writing Joe Gomez off which i think is stupid.

No, Joe Gomez is too good to be written off. If de Ligt was brought into the club I can see nothing but good coming from it. Competition for places is the name of the game for bringing a team on and I would say Joe would relish proving he was as good if not better than the young Dutchman. Again, I say a big no to Gomez being written off.

 

[William Clarke]

He's not Moreno though is he,some would have you believe Lovren is as bad as Moreno,that's complete bollocks.

Hahaha, if you must know I put the pair at par when it comes to being crap. I would sell them both and see how much money we could recoup, and put the money towards buying someone half decent. Those two together don't come to half decent.

 

[Zinedine Biscan]

Re Lovren read something quite surprising today - apparently in his entire time at the club, he has never managed 10 consecutive games for us. That's quite incredible given he joined in 2014 and for most of that period was first-choice (it was in the Echo and I haven't fact-checked, stand to be corrected).

I get that people say in terms of quality, as a fourth-choice CB there are probably few better in the league. However, for any backup it's essential they be reliable - it's no good if every time you need to call on them they're also out injured.

I'd have replaced him anyway as I'd like to replace him with a better player, and now I know that about him I'd also replace on the basis that an unreliable backup is of limited use. Throw in the decent pot we could get from his sale and it just makes more sense than not imo.

 

[The Elusive 19th]

Re Lovren read something quite surprising today - apparently in his entire time at the club, he has never managed 10 consecutive games for us. That's quite incredible given he joined in 2014 and for most of that period was first-choice (it was in the Echo and I haven't fact-checked, stand to be corrected).

Lovren joined us in 2014? It's 2019 already. It's been 5 bloody years already? WTF.

 

[Mousecat]

Dr ligt has the choice of every club in world football. Wherever he goes he'll be having the guarantee of a starting place.

He's going nowhere to be an upgrade to a backup player. And Joe Gomez isn't staying anywhere long term as a sub right back.

If you're going to have the debate then at least have it in the right context.

Theyre two young alpha centre backs with the potential to be amongst the best in the game. Long term, It's either or on them. Be realistic.

 

[Mousecat]

Re Lovren read something quite surprising today - apparently in his entire time at the club, he has never managed 10 consecutive games for us. That's quite incredible given he joined in 2014 and for most of that period was first-choice (it was in the Echo and I haven't fact-checked, stand to be corrected).

I get that people say in terms of quality, as a fourth-choice CB there are probably few better in the league. However, for any backup it's essential they be reliable - it's no good if every time you need to call on them they're also out injured.

I'd have replaced him anyway as I'd like to replace him with a better player, and now I know that about him I'd also replace on the basis that an unreliable backup is of limited use. Throw in the decent pot we could get from his sale and it just makes more sense than not imo.

Yes but that injury record and the healthy contract he'll be on having signed as a priority upgrade, will be the only thing keeping him happy as 3rd or 4th choice.

It's not easy to find players with a healthy ego and ambitions, who are ok with being sat on a bench most of the time.

He's also got the luxury of being guaranteed a starting place for his country when he's fit, regardless of whether he's playing first team for us or not. So right now he's a happy bean.

Squad football and managing morale outside the first team is a big part of success. There's a fine balancing point between the quality you're looking to get, and the level of their own expectations. Even more so if you can't afford to, or won't overpay in wages.

 

[Cologne-Liverpool]

But Henderson will be happy to sit on a bench most of the time I assume? Deep down he probably knows he's not good enough, right?

 

[Not Worthy]

Dr ligt has the choice of every club in world football. Wherever he goes he'll be having the guarantee of a starting place.

He's going nowhere to be an upgrade to a backup player. And Joe Gomez isn't staying anywhere long term as a sub right back.

If you're going to have the debate then at least have it in the right context.

Theyre two young alpha centre backs with the potential to be amongst the best in the game. Long term, It's either or on them. Be realistic.

Realistically, van Dijk (the rock upon which all assumptions are made) may be the one that, next season, gets injured. Queue bed-shitting because all eggs were in the "van Dijk plus one" category.

De Ligt leaves Ajax in the summer. If we bid, we drive up the price. If we get him we need to juggle the CB combo and off one of Matip or Lovren; probably the latter.

It's not essential business but neither is it beyond comprehension.

 

[Zinedine Biscan]

Lovren joined us in 2014? It's 2019 already. It's been 5 bloody years already? WTF.

Right?

 

[Mousecat]

But Henderson will be happy to sit on a bench most of the time I assume? Deep down he probably knows he's not good enough, right?

If he's not happy, he leaves with a hug.

I'd rather hug him than Gomez

 

[Cologne-Liverpool]

If he's not happy, he leaves with a hug.

I'd rather hug him than Gomez

Both get a hug and neither of them leaves

 

[Anfield rd Dreamer]

Next season we will probably be looking at around 50-65 games so anywhere from 100 to 130 starting positions at CB.

The reality is our first 3 choices at CB will probably all get 30-45 starts which taking into account rotation (possibility of 7 pots to play for), injuries (Gomez and maybe Matip in particular) and any potential bedding in period if we do buy a CB then I think whoever our 4th choice is will even get to play a fair bit. Hoever or another academy lad may get to play in a few cup games too.

Whether our first 3 are VvD, Gomez and Matip with Lovren as emergency cover or VvD, another and Gomez with Matip as emergency cover doesn't matter. Gomez might play RB sometimes too so even if he plays CB or RB for every single game he's available for the other 2 main picks may still get 40+ games and the 4th choice might still start 20+ games.

Loads of games to go round, we don't have to worry about who is starting. We do have to worry about how we will cope if VvD misses a run of games, he has in the past. He could in the future.

 

[Mousecat]

Hahaha, if you must know I put the pair at par when it comes to being crap. I would sell them both and see how much money we could recoup, and put the money towards buying someone half decent. Those two together don't come to half decent.

You don't play at Lovrens level without being half decent. If Moreno was half decent we wouldn't be looking for half decent cover for Robertson

 

[Lowton_Red]

According to Transfermarkt Lovren has had 9 seperate injuries since joining us in 2014, which resulted in him missing 34 games.

Joel Matip has had 6 injuries; this resulted in him missing 40 games, since he joined in 2016. (Transfermarkt)

Joe Gomez has missed 97 games over the last three seasons (Transfermarkt) . But I'd still rather have Joe than Dejan.

All of which adds up to a fair number of games lost due to injury - against Brighton VVD was our only fit centre-back, and had to be partnered by Fabinho.

So, I think another centre-back would make a great deal of sense.

 

[Zoran]

Bigger shock is how the hell Skrtel managed a to survive almost a decade here. As for Lovren, he only had 1 senior career season with 40+ games in all competitions. Needs to go, either next summer, or this summer. I will fall into depression if he gets a new deal. He will never be a mature player even if he's heading into his 30's and honestly for a brave heart physical type of CB (who is technically okay), he's too often out. Plus, his wages. I've had enough, I don't want players from the Balkans anymore (just joking of course, that's the fan in me speaking even if I'm from that area, I just hope we change our guy for this part of Europe because there's quality stuff here)! However I don't think CB will be a priority for us. More like if the market presents a good enough opportunity for us to say "yeah, there's a quality partner for Virgil so let's cash in on Dejan right now".

 

[Not Worthy]

You don't play at Lovrens level without being half decent. If Moreno was half decent we wouldn't be looking for half decent cover for Robertson

The problem was always Lovren AND Moreno in tandem.

 

[Mousecat]

Both get a hug and neither of them leaves

Ideal world scenarios. What we all want isn't it.

Truth is, there's a different level of expectation regarding ambition, depending on the position on the pitch.

If you're a backup goalkeeper, you better be happy with the league and fa cup games.

Centre back... Be ok with waiting for an injury.

Midfield and attack, and you be part of a rotation and still get plenty of important games on a regular basis.

 

[Not Worthy]

Ideal world scenarios. What we all want isn't it.

Truth is, there's a different level of expectation regarding ambition, depending on the position on the pitch.

If you're a backup goalkeeper, you better be happy with the league and fa cup games.

Centre back... Be ok with waiting for an injury.

Midfield and attack, and you be part of a rotation and still get plenty of important games on a regular basis.

True for the keeper.

CB, mostly but in need of dependable protection/back-up if you go deep into competitions.

As we play now, FB and specifically LB, is the point of weakness. Almost equally, a strong foward capable of multiple roles.

For the first time in a while, I think we have depth in midfield based on our preferred mix of set-up. So, I disagree with you on that.