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Who would you buy?

William Clarke

REDSHIRT ~ I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
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He's not Moreno though is he,some would have you believe Lovren is as bad as Moreno,that's complete bollocks.
Hahaha, if you must know I put the pair at par when it comes to being crap. I would sell them both and see how much money we could recoup, and put the money towards buying someone half decent. Those two together don't come to half decent.
 

Zinedine Biscan

Spreading the word of St Igor
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Re Lovren read something quite surprising today - apparently in his entire time at the club, he has never managed 10 consecutive games for us. That's quite incredible given he joined in 2014 and for most of that period was first-choice (it was in the Echo and I haven't fact-checked, stand to be corrected).

I get that people say in terms of quality, as a fourth-choice CB there are probably few better in the league. However, for any backup it's essential they be reliable - it's no good if every time you need to call on them they're also out injured.

I'd have replaced him anyway as I'd like to replace him with a better player, and now I know that about him I'd also replace on the basis that an unreliable backup is of limited use. Throw in the decent pot we could get from his sale and it just makes more sense than not imo.
 

The Elusive 19th

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Re Lovren read something quite surprising today - apparently in his entire time at the club, he has never managed 10 consecutive games for us. That's quite incredible given he joined in 2014 and for most of that period was first-choice (it was in the Echo and I haven't fact-checked, stand to be corrected).
Lovren joined us in 2014? It's 2019 already. It's been 5 bloody years already? WTF.
 

Mousecat

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Dr ligt has the choice of every club in world football. Wherever he goes he'll be having the guarantee of a starting place.

He's going nowhere to be an upgrade to a backup player. And Joe Gomez isn't staying anywhere long term as a sub right back.

If you're going to have the debate then at least have it in the right context.

Theyre two young alpha centre backs with the potential to be amongst the best in the game. Long term, It's either or on them. Be realistic.
 

Mousecat

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Re Lovren read something quite surprising today - apparently in his entire time at the club, he has never managed 10 consecutive games for us. That's quite incredible given he joined in 2014 and for most of that period was first-choice (it was in the Echo and I haven't fact-checked, stand to be corrected).

I get that people say in terms of quality, as a fourth-choice CB there are probably few better in the league. However, for any backup it's essential they be reliable - it's no good if every time you need to call on them they're also out injured.

I'd have replaced him anyway as I'd like to replace him with a better player, and now I know that about him I'd also replace on the basis that an unreliable backup is of limited use. Throw in the decent pot we could get from his sale and it just makes more sense than not imo.
Yes but that injury record and the healthy contract he'll be on having signed as a priority upgrade, will be the only thing keeping him happy as 3rd or 4th choice.

It's not easy to find players with a healthy ego and ambitions, who are ok with being sat on a bench most of the time.

He's also got the luxury of being guaranteed a starting place for his country when he's fit, regardless of whether he's playing first team for us or not. So right now he's a happy bean.

Squad football and managing morale outside the first team is a big part of success. There's a fine balancing point between the quality you're looking to get, and the level of their own expectations. Even more so if you can't afford to, or won't overpay in wages.
 

Not Worthy

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Dr ligt has the choice of every club in world football. Wherever he goes he'll be having the guarantee of a starting place.

He's going nowhere to be an upgrade to a backup player. And Joe Gomez isn't staying anywhere long term as a sub right back.

If you're going to have the debate then at least have it in the right context.

Theyre two young alpha centre backs with the potential to be amongst the best in the game. Long term, It's either or on them. Be realistic.
Realistically, van Dijk (the rock upon which all assumptions are made) may be the one that, next season, gets injured. Queue bed-shitting because all eggs were in the "van Dijk plus one" category.

De Ligt leaves Ajax in the summer. If we bid, we drive up the price. If we get him we need to juggle the CB combo and off one of Matip or Lovren; probably the latter.

It's not essential business but neither is it beyond comprehension.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Next season we will probably be looking at around 50-65 games so anywhere from 100 to 130 starting positions at CB.

The reality is our first 3 choices at CB will probably all get 30-45 starts which taking into account rotation (possibility of 7 pots to play for), injuries (Gomez and maybe Matip in particular) and any potential bedding in period if we do buy a CB then I think whoever our 4th choice is will even get to play a fair bit. Hoever or another academy lad may get to play in a few cup games too.

Whether our first 3 are VvD, Gomez and Matip with Lovren as emergency cover or VvD, another and Gomez with Matip as emergency cover doesn't matter. Gomez might play RB sometimes too so even if he plays CB or RB for every single game he's available for the other 2 main picks may still get 40+ games and the 4th choice might still start 20+ games.

Loads of games to go round, we don't have to worry about who is starting. We do have to worry about how we will cope if VvD misses a run of games, he has in the past. He could in the future.
 

Mousecat

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Hahaha, if you must know I put the pair at par when it comes to being crap. I would sell them both and see how much money we could recoup, and put the money towards buying someone half decent. Those two together don't come to half decent.
You don't play at Lovrens level without being half decent. If Moreno was half decent we wouldn't be looking for half decent cover for Robertson
 

Lowton_Red

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According to Transfermarkt Lovren has had 9 seperate injuries since joining us in 2014, which resulted in him missing 34 games.

Joel Matip has had 6 injuries; this resulted in him missing 40 games, since he joined in 2016. (Transfermarkt)

Joe Gomez has missed 97 games over the last three seasons (Transfermarkt) . But I'd still rather have Joe than Dejan.

All of which adds up to a fair number of games lost due to injury - against Brighton VVD was our only fit centre-back, and had to be partnered by Fabinho.

So, I think another centre-back would make a great deal of sense.
 
Last edited:

Zoran

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Bigger shock is how the hell Skrtel managed a to survive almost a decade here. As for Lovren, he only had 1 senior career season with 40+ games in all competitions. Needs to go, either next summer, or this summer. I will fall into depression if he gets a new deal. He will never be a mature player even if he's heading into his 30's and honestly for a brave heart physical type of CB (who is technically okay), he's too often out. Plus, his wages. I've had enough, I don't want players from the Balkans anymore (just joking of course, that's the fan in me speaking even if I'm from that area, I just hope we change our guy for this part of Europe because there's quality stuff here)! However I don't think CB will be a priority for us. More like if the market presents a good enough opportunity for us to say "yeah, there's a quality partner for Virgil so let's cash in on Dejan right now".
 

Mousecat

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Both get a hug and neither of them leaves
Ideal world scenarios. What we all want isn't it.

Truth is, there's a different level of expectation regarding ambition, depending on the position on the pitch.

If you're a backup goalkeeper, you better be happy with the league and fa cup games.

Centre back... Be ok with waiting for an injury.

Midfield and attack, and you be part of a rotation and still get plenty of important games on a regular basis.
 

Not Worthy

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Ideal world scenarios. What we all want isn't it.

Truth is, there's a different level of expectation regarding ambition, depending on the position on the pitch.

If you're a backup goalkeeper, you better be happy with the league and fa cup games.

Centre back... Be ok with waiting for an injury.

Midfield and attack, and you be part of a rotation and still get plenty of important games on a regular basis.
True for the keeper.

CB, mostly but in need of dependable protection/back-up if you go deep into competitions.

As we play now, FB and specifically LB, is the point of weakness. Almost equally, a strong foward capable of multiple roles.

For the first time in a while, I think we have depth in midfield based on our preferred mix of set-up. So, I disagree with you on that.
 

William Clarke

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You don't play at Lovrens level without being half decent. If Moreno was half decent we wouldn't be looking for half decent cover for Robertson
The only thing I remember Lovren doing, and doing well, was scoring that last minute winner against Dortmund. Sadly, he doesn't do enough Dortmunds, so I would like to see him gone and someone decent brought in to take his place.
 

redbj

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I dont think the analogy is a good one. I dont know how many people had watched Robbo, and so most of the criticisms were based on the idea that we should be aiming higher than a player "no one has heard of" from a relegated team. They were not based on a rationale judgement of his ability. FWIW, as soon as the links were made I was fully on board. My issue with De Ligt is the 5 or 6 times I have seen him this season I do not see the player other people seem to think they are seeing.
I remember when SK Warne made his debut for Aussie.

His grade cricket numbers weren’t off the chart, and his debut was....errr....

But those in the game were just saying ‘look out, this kid is special’

It’s probably not so much what you are seeing on game day, but what is happening off the park that has alerted the elite clubs of Europe.

Having said that, I’ve personally seen fuck all of him.
 

Nikola

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Guerreiro is a decent shout, my only worry with him would be his fitness record (Transfermarkt says that he has missed fifty games since he joined Dortmund). I like him a lot as a player, though, nice technical ability and he's able to play as both a left back and a central midfielder, just like Klopp likes it.

As for the backup 'keeper, Adrian really isn't a bad shout if Mignolet leaves, in my opinion, he was pretty decent when he was starting for West Ham.
 

redfanman

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Re Lovren read something quite surprising today - apparently in his entire time at the club, he has never managed 10 consecutive games for us. That's quite incredible given he joined in 2014 and for most of that period was first-choice (it was in the Echo and I haven't fact-checked, stand to be corrected).

I get that people say in terms of quality, as a fourth-choice CB there are probably few better in the league. However, for any backup it's essential they be reliable - it's no good if every time you need to call on them they're also out injured.

I'd have replaced him anyway as I'd like to replace him with a better player, and now I know that about him I'd also replace on the basis that an unreliable backup is of limited use. Throw in the decent pot we could get from his sale and it just makes more sense than not imo.
I thought it was 5 or 7, at least that was the figure doing the rounds before Christmas.
 

GaryBarlow99

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