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Who would you buy?

William Clarke

REDSHIRT ~ I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
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I dont think the analogy is a good one. I dont know how many people had watched Robbo, and so most of the criticisms were based on the idea that we should be aiming higher than a player "no one has heard of" from a relegated team. They were not based on a rationale judgement of his ability. FWIW, as soon as the links were made I was fully on board. My issue with De Ligt is the 5 or 6 times I have seen him this season I do not see a CB on a par with those playing in the top teams, as has been suggested.
I don't think any judgement was made on his ability, it was more that he was coming from a relegated club, so inferring his ability couldn't be good enough for our club. In regards to de Ligt, we are talking of a recognised international player who is being selected on a regular basis. I would like to see him signed for our club and only the transfer fee would be an obstacle to his possible signing.
 


SithBaare

From Doubters to Believers
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I don't think any judgement was made on his ability, it was more that he was coming from a relegated club, so inferring his ability couldn't be good enough for our club. In regards to de Ligt, we are talking of a recognised international player who is being selected on a regular basis. I would like to see him signed for our club and only the transfer fee would be an obstacle to his possible signing.
Transfer fee and his wages too. I'd say his wages demands more.
 

SithBaare

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People say we've spent on our back four. Fact is we've only bought Virgil and lovren for big money , alright sakho if we are pedantic but we've more or less recovered his money ... Speaking only on the transfer fees.

Matip free
Trent youth
Robbo 8m
Virgil 75m
Lovren 30m ?
Gomez 8m ?

Look at the market now when there are people willing to pay 60-70m for a 19 year old.

Any other team with a need to revamp their entire defense would easily need to spend twice the same amount
 

William Clarke

REDSHIRT ~ I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
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People say we've spent on our back four. Fact is we've only bought Virgil and lovren for big money , alright sakho if we are pedantic but we've more or less recovered his money ... Speaking only on the transfer fees.

Matip free
Trent youth
Robbo 8m
Virgil 75m
Lovren 30m ?
Gomez 8m ?

Look at the market now when there are people willing to pay 60-70m for a 19 year old.

Any other team with a need to revamp their entire defense would easily need to spend twice the same amount
Yeah, as I remarked in an earlier post, it would only be the costs involved in signing de Ligt that would put Klopp off from getting him - that's if our manager is interested in getting another central defender.
 

Limiescouse

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I don't think any judgement was made on his ability, it was more that he was coming from a relegated club, so inferring his ability couldn't be good enough for our club. In regards to de Ligt, we are talking of a recognised international player who is being selected on a regular basis.
So are you agreeing that it isn't a fitting analogy?
 



William Clarke

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So are you agreeing that it isn't a fitting analogy?
Agree in that Robbo wasn't at the time a recognised international whereas de Ligt is, but the only point I was making is that the Dutchman would fit into our back line really well and only the high cost of his signature would be a stumbling block in us getting him - and of course Klopp wanting him.
 

RedForever2014

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Matip has certainly transformed from Bambi on ice to Olympic winning ice skater in recent months.

I still worry about his injury record, but he does look more Varane than Traore right now.

That said, he's only a year left on his contract, and having done the Bosman with big signing on bonus when he left his last club to join us, maybe he's planning the same again.

We should always be looking ahead, always reducing risks to our chances of stability and success, and for me De Ligt remains viable as an upgrade on Lovren, especially given Matip's situation and Gomez's injury record.
 

William Clarke

REDSHIRT ~ I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
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Matip has certainly transformed from Bambi on ice to Olympic winning ice skater in recent months.

I still worry about his injury record, but he does look more Varane than Traore right now.

That said, he's only a year left on his contract, and having done the Bosman with big signing on bonus when he left his last club to join us, maybe he's planning the same again.

We should always be looking ahead, always reducing risks to our chances of stability and success, and for me De Ligt remains viable as an upgrade on Lovren, especially given Matip's situation and Gomez's injury record.
Do you think de Ligt's cost would be too exorbitant for our money chest?
 



Red over the water

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I think Lovren was more like 20M and Gomez closer to 3M.

Anyway, the point is well made that even though we have spent a lot of money in one or two positions, we have spent peanuts in others, so overall the defense is still a bargain.
 

William Clarke

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I think Lovren was more like 20M and Gomez closer to 3M.

Anyway, the point is well made that even though we have spent a lot of money in one or two positions, we have spent peanuts in others, so overall the defense is still a bargain.
Absolutely agree with you although there will be those who will point to the money that was spent on bringing Virgil van Dijk to the club.
 

William Clarke

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Paying out of the arse for a player to replace Lovren seems barmy to me unless you're listing a broken leg as proof of being 'injury prone',fucking ridiculous.
If we are talking about Lovren, I have never made any pretence in thinking the man as a footballer is nothing but a pile of crap and not the world's greatest centre back as he believes himself to be. I would sell the bugger in a heartbeat - and at a knockdown price just to get quickly rid of the crap fecker.

p.s. Did I come over a little too strong then, do you think? :think:
 

Keegans Perm

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Just goes to show how strong our team actually is at the moment with the amount of bickering about who we should bring in/drop. But its all been a good read looking at everyone's point of views and its certainly going to be an exciting summer with the choices we make with who to bring in.
I just think with the Fekir ordeal last summer that an AM is definitely on the cards. Maybe Klopp was uncertain on how well Hendo would play when being pushed further forward but he may have done enough to change Klopps original plans with how well he performed.
Like others, I certainly wouldnt grumble if we spent big on De Ligt, but I'd be extremely surprised if that happened, even though we have had injury problems at the back. God forbid if anything happened to Van Dijk, id feel much more at ease knowing De Ligt was there.
As I say though, im not sure who we will go for, but I guess thats why Klopp earns the big bucks. He'll know exactly what he wants and the majority of Liverpool fans will trust his judgement.
Exciting times ahead for this beast of a club.
 



Scott Jones

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If we are talking about Lovren, I have never made any pretence in thinking the man as a footballer is nothing but a pile of crap and not the world's greatest centre back as he believes himself to be. I would sell the bugger in a heartbeat - and at a knockdown price just to get quickly rid of the crap fecker.
I'm talking about the over the top narrative of Gomez being written off as injury prone,does my fucking head in,he's quality and buying the Dutch kid would be writing Joe Gomez off which i think is stupid.
 

Scott Jones

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If we are talking about Lovren, I have never made any pretence in thinking the man as a footballer is nothing but a pile of crap and not the world's greatest centre back as he believes himself to be. I would sell the bugger in a heartbeat - and at a knockdown price just to get quickly rid of the crap fecker.

p.s. Did I come over a little too strong then, do you think? :think:
He's not Moreno though is he,some would have you believe Lovren is as bad as Moreno,that's complete bollocks.
 

William Clarke

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I'm talking about the over the top narrative of Gomez being written off as injury prone,does my fucking head in,he's quality and buying the Dutch kid would be writing Joe Gomez off which i think is stupid.
No, Joe Gomez is too good to be written off. If de Ligt was brought into the club I can see nothing but good coming from it. Competition for places is the name of the game for bringing a team on and I would say Joe would relish proving he was as good if not better than the young Dutchman. Again, I say a big no to Gomez being written off.
 

William Clarke

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He's not Moreno though is he,some would have you believe Lovren is as bad as Moreno,that's complete bollocks.
Hahaha, if you must know I put the pair at par when it comes to being crap. I would sell them both and see how much money we could recoup, and put the money towards buying someone half decent. Those two together don't come to half decent.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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Re Lovren read something quite surprising today - apparently in his entire time at the club, he has never managed 10 consecutive games for us. That's quite incredible given he joined in 2014 and for most of that period was first-choice (it was in the Echo and I haven't fact-checked, stand to be corrected).

I get that people say in terms of quality, as a fourth-choice CB there are probably few better in the league. However, for any backup it's essential they be reliable - it's no good if every time you need to call on them they're also out injured.

I'd have replaced him anyway as I'd like to replace him with a better player, and now I know that about him I'd also replace on the basis that an unreliable backup is of limited use. Throw in the decent pot we could get from his sale and it just makes more sense than not imo.
 



The Elusive 19th

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Re Lovren read something quite surprising today - apparently in his entire time at the club, he has never managed 10 consecutive games for us. That's quite incredible given he joined in 2014 and for most of that period was first-choice (it was in the Echo and I haven't fact-checked, stand to be corrected).
Lovren joined us in 2014? It's 2019 already. It's been 5 bloody years already? WTF.
 

Mousecat

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Dr ligt has the choice of every club in world football. Wherever he goes he'll be having the guarantee of a starting place.

He's going nowhere to be an upgrade to a backup player. And Joe Gomez isn't staying anywhere long term as a sub right back.

If you're going to have the debate then at least have it in the right context.

Theyre two young alpha centre backs with the potential to be amongst the best in the game. Long term, It's either or on them. Be realistic.
 

Mousecat

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Re Lovren read something quite surprising today - apparently in his entire time at the club, he has never managed 10 consecutive games for us. That's quite incredible given he joined in 2014 and for most of that period was first-choice (it was in the Echo and I haven't fact-checked, stand to be corrected).

I get that people say in terms of quality, as a fourth-choice CB there are probably few better in the league. However, for any backup it's essential they be reliable - it's no good if every time you need to call on them they're also out injured.

I'd have replaced him anyway as I'd like to replace him with a better player, and now I know that about him I'd also replace on the basis that an unreliable backup is of limited use. Throw in the decent pot we could get from his sale and it just makes more sense than not imo.
Yes but that injury record and the healthy contract he'll be on having signed as a priority upgrade, will be the only thing keeping him happy as 3rd or 4th choice.

It's not easy to find players with a healthy ego and ambitions, who are ok with being sat on a bench most of the time.

He's also got the luxury of being guaranteed a starting place for his country when he's fit, regardless of whether he's playing first team for us or not. So right now he's a happy bean.

Squad football and managing morale outside the first team is a big part of success. There's a fine balancing point between the quality you're looking to get, and the level of their own expectations. Even more so if you can't afford to, or won't overpay in wages.
 

Not Worthy

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Dr ligt has the choice of every club in world football. Wherever he goes he'll be having the guarantee of a starting place.

He's going nowhere to be an upgrade to a backup player. And Joe Gomez isn't staying anywhere long term as a sub right back.

If you're going to have the debate then at least have it in the right context.

Theyre two young alpha centre backs with the potential to be amongst the best in the game. Long term, It's either or on them. Be realistic.
Realistically, van Dijk (the rock upon which all assumptions are made) may be the one that, next season, gets injured. Queue bed-shitting because all eggs were in the "van Dijk plus one" category.

De Ligt leaves Ajax in the summer. If we bid, we drive up the price. If we get him we need to juggle the CB combo and off one of Matip or Lovren; probably the latter.

It's not essential business but neither is it beyond comprehension.
 



Anfield rd Dreamer

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Next season we will probably be looking at around 50-65 games so anywhere from 100 to 130 starting positions at CB.

The reality is our first 3 choices at CB will probably all get 30-45 starts which taking into account rotation (possibility of 7 pots to play for), injuries (Gomez and maybe Matip in particular) and any potential bedding in period if we do buy a CB then I think whoever our 4th choice is will even get to play a fair bit. Hoever or another academy lad may get to play in a few cup games too.

Whether our first 3 are VvD, Gomez and Matip with Lovren as emergency cover or VvD, another and Gomez with Matip as emergency cover doesn't matter. Gomez might play RB sometimes too so even if he plays CB or RB for every single game he's available for the other 2 main picks may still get 40+ games and the 4th choice might still start 20+ games.

Loads of games to go round, we don't have to worry about who is starting. We do have to worry about how we will cope if VvD misses a run of games, he has in the past. He could in the future.
 

Mousecat

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Hahaha, if you must know I put the pair at par when it comes to being crap. I would sell them both and see how much money we could recoup, and put the money towards buying someone half decent. Those two together don't come to half decent.
You don't play at Lovrens level without being half decent. If Moreno was half decent we wouldn't be looking for half decent cover for Robertson