Who would you buy?

Flobs

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Evryone still confident naby keita will have a mostly injury free season, now that it looks like he might miss the start of it?
I haven't confidence in Keita fit or not yet. He needs to push on next season so any injuries are going to be a bummer for him.
 

SadiosMio

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I haven't confidence in Keita fit or not yet. He needs to push on next season so any injuries are going to be a bummer for him.
I think he's a fantastic talent. Most signings under klopp have had an adjustment period. He was looking great late in the year before getting injured. Good chance he only has to survive one more game in this mess.
 

GermanRed

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I think he's a fantastic talent. Most signings under klopp have had an adjustment period. He was looking great late in the year before getting injured. Good chance he only has to survive one more game in this mess.
Keita had two or three good games. He might need until the end of the year until he establishes himself in the starting11.

If Lallana stays fit during pre season he will be ahead of Keita at the start of the season.
 

Kopstar

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Keita had two or three good games. He might need until the end of the year until he establishes himself in the starting11.

If Lallana stays fit during pre season he will be ahead of Keita at the start of the season.
A) Only if Keita is injured
B) Lallana's no better than a bench option now, even if fit
C) Lallana's incapable of staying fit
 

Mousecat

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How did you come to that conclusion?
In my opinion we won more games without having control, which could have gone either way, than city did.

City controlled and won games with a greater degree of ease than we did. It both displayed one of the qualities of the team and the areas to improve at the same time.

Its likely city will do that again. I personally doubt we'd have the same outcome as we did oin those games against spurs, Newcastle, Everton, if we played the same way again. Luck played a big part in us being in with a shout on the last day of the season. I didn't feel that way watching city's games. If anything I was relying on luck to keep them out, because in that run in they dominated almost if not every single game they played.
 

Flobs

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I think he's a fantastic talent. Most signings under klopp have had an adjustment period. He was looking great late in the year before getting injured. Good chance he only has to survive one more game in this mess.
I hope he's a fantastic talent however I haven't a clue if he is or not. From what I saw of hime last season he hasn't shown anything that can give confidence add to that his injuries and all I can say is we are going to need to be patient. Hyping him up now to people like me seems illadvised.
He bever looked great last season though for a couple of matches nearing the end of the season he looked as if he was improving from a very poor start. Played 20 minutes where he looked the best midfielder but ended up injured (not his fault but 20 minutes is very little to judge a player by.
He will then have to survive preseason training sit out x number of games then push for 1st team selection hoping he doesn't get injured again. So I repeat what we need is patience not hype.
This adjustment period stuff doesn't apply to Kieta as Klopp tried pushing him into the 1st team very early on and it seems to have back fired imo. Also i wish Klopp had shown that type of confidence in Robertson and Fabinho but hey who am i to question the Klopp always has reason brigade. :)
 

Flobs

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In my opinion we won more games without having control, which could have gone either way, than city did.

City controlled and won games with a greater degree of ease than we did. It both displayed one of the qualities of the team and the areas to improve at the same time.

Its likely city will do that again. I personally doubt we'd have the same outcome as we did oin those games against spurs, Newcastle, Everton, if we played the same way again. Luck played a big part in us being in with a shout on the last day of the season. I didn't feel tray watching city's games. If anything I was relying on luck to keep them out, because in that run in they dominated almost if not every single game they played.
Yet we never looked like losing! :)
 

GermanRed

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A) Only if Keita is injured
B) Lallana's no better than a bench option now, even if fit
C) Lallana's incapable of staying fit
Keitas injury record also starts to be a worry IMO.
Like i said, he had 3 good games. 3 or 4 injuries during the season means he is far from being 'Premier League proven'. Now missing the whole pre season while others are already working hard during their holidays.

Right now i'd say that chances are higher that Lallana will be our most improved player (like Matip was last season) than Keita being a sure starter ahead of Wijnaldum, Henderson and Ox in one of the two #8 positions.
 

Mousecat

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.. an we certainly did draw a lot but they were not losses. :tongue:
Yep. They are different. But there could have been a couple more of them and nobody would have argued they were unfair. We really didn't deserve to win those games I mentioned. But we did. That's luck.

Don't wanna be saying that so much next season. Want us to create enough chances that any games we do draw we could say we were unlucky based on weight of chances. Only way we'll do that is becoming more creative in open play and scoring goals from the midfield
 

Mousecat

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Oh.. and now people are talking about naby keitas reliability.

Knew I'd have to leave it alone for a few weeks before that happened.

The same will be the case for the midfield if we don't improve it. Like I said a month ago, quote me.
 

Kopstar

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Yep. They are different. But there could have been a couple more of them and nobody would have argued they were unfair. We really didn't deserve to win those games I mentioned. But we did. That's luck.

Don't wanna be saying that so much next season. Want us to create enough chances that any games we do draw we could say we were unlucky based on weight of chances. Only way we'll do that is becoming more creative in open play and scoring goals from the midfield
At the same time, in those draws there were teams who were fucking lucky not to lose, Leicester for example. Luck is simply a part of the game and City got their fair share too. They were also noticeably weaker and more vulnerable without Fernandinho and he'll be 35 by the end of the season.
 

Mousecat

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How you balance it is the bit where it becomes opinion. It's my opinion that we probably over achieved a bit in regards to our points total, where I feel city didn't. That's over the whole season
 

RedForever2014

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Ultimately I just think it's dangerous and to be honest a bit complacent to think we don't really need to improve.

We lost all our CL away group matches, we went out of both domestic cups at the first hurdle and our record against the top sides in the PL was better year on year, but mostly at home. We only beat Spurs away from home.

Anyone watching our matches without red tinted spectacles knows we got through many matches through grit and due to our defence,
despite not playing that well and despite not controlling midfield a lot of the time.

To have achieved 97 points and to win the CL was fantastic, but when you achieve that with a bit of good fortune, mostly with injuries, you take it and use it as an opportunity to then ensure you're not a hostage to good fortune in the future.

The first choice defence can't get much better, but in having inadequate cover and limited rotation options the risk is that VVD, TAA and Robertson get overplayed, end up fatigued or injured, and our defensive stats end up worse year on year.

Midfield did get outplayed a lot last season, but will see improvement from Fab being good to go from day 1 and Oxlade being back, plus Keita (if and when fit) more adjusted to the PL. But if Keita has an injury plagued season, Lallana remains injury prone, and Oxlade is not the same player, and we have to cover defence using midfielders, this seemingly 'sorted' department will be anything but.

As to the forwards, they haven't finished their season yet and pre-season starts next week. Bobby showed with his over-use related injury at the end of last season that these guys are not indestructible.

I'm going to try and not post to this thread again until it becomes clearer what the club intends to do this summer.

But I remain of the opinion that we need to add a top quality forward to replace Sturridge, we need to upgrade Lallana in attacking midfield and we need at least one defender.

IMO this is what will be required to get anywhere near 97 points again, a points total that is likely to be necessary to win the league over the next year or two until City rebuild.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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How you balance it is the bit where it becomes opinion. It's my opinion that we probably over achieved a bit in regards to our points total, where I feel city didn't. That's over the whole season
I'm not sure this is entirely fair. Particularly in the run-in there were a fair few games where City looked pretty rank and we kept thinking they'd slip and lose ground to us, only for Aguero or Sterling to grab an undeserved winner.

Considering neither Firmino nor Salah were at their best last season, combined with players like Ox and Keita who were non-factors in our season we'll hopefully see a lot more of this time, there's every reason to believe we can sustain last season's performance. I won't say improve as honestly I don't know how much room there is to do that after a 97-point season!
 

Red over the water

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There were lots of stats last season about how Man City were winning games with margin to spare, and the margin for us was less. It’s fair to say that. It’s also fair to say Man City look like they have established a new level under Guardiola, with a 100 point haul followed up by a 98 point haul. It seem reasonable to assume they will get more than 95 points next season, ridiculous as it sounds to say that.

Is it reasonable to say Liverpool will match them stride for stride next season, and get another 95+ point haul?

Maybe, maybe not. At present last season represents an outlier for us in Prem performance. There are lots of reasons why we think we might give it a great go - Klopp, a young team, a hungry team, a great team, squad harmony and also the bulk of the team doing their prime years together. We can do it again, and hopefully go one better and be Champions next season. But all that remains to be seen. If the sort of points haul we amassed last season is to become our new normal, we have to do it again.

That’s where City are a step ahead, but on the other hand, they have an older spine, and Guardiola isn’t one for sticking around forever, so hopefully we stick together as you very much sense our time is coming.
 

Red over the water

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@RedForever2014

I think most people would agree with at least two of the three suggestions you have made.

Another quality attacker - yes please. Loads of people have been saying that all summer.
Another fullback - yes please. Loads of people have been saying that all summer.
An attacking midfielder? More debate on that one.

The main reason for the debate is not because anyone has too much hope for Lallana, but because we want to see what becomes of Ox and Keita. If neither one can get near the pitch regularly next season, due to injury, it’s a safe bet we will sort it out next summer at the latest, with Aouar and Havertz two highly rated young players most of us like the look of. But in the meantime, an attacking midfielder isn’t considered the same sort of priority as the other two signings you mention, at least in terms of consensus among the fan base.

Your points are fair - we do need more, and we can see it, but let’s see what happens.
 

KillerBeeLFC

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In my opinion we won more games without having control, which could have gone either way, than city did.

City controlled and won games with a greater degree of ease than we did. It both displayed one of the qualities of the team and the areas to improve at the same time.

Its likely city will do that again. I personally doubt we'd have the same outcome as we did oin those games against spurs, Newcastle, Everton, if we played the same way again. Luck played a big part in us being in with a shout on the last day of the season. I didn't feel that way watching city's games. If anything I was relying on luck to keep them out, because in that run in they dominated almost if not every single game they played.
I get your point about control in games but we were still only 1 point behind City, however much they play it around the back.
If we beat them in the second half of the season, we win the league. We draw with them, we win the league. They NEEDED to beat us to win the league.
I dont even think their domestic cup runs where as impressive as our Champs league run. They played teams that our second string could beat too. Even in Europe they had an easy ride compared to us.
With all that factored in, the league still only came down to 1 point and we could of won the double if we'd of got any result bar a loss v City.
The form we had last year didnt come as a surprise since we had already went a silly amount of games without losing at Anfield before that. That was even before Alisson and Fabinho came in. Klopp and the club know what they're doing. Whether its get an Mbappe in or 2 kids in they know what they're doing. This is no fluke now. We will keep City honest and they will have to do the same with us.
 

CymruRed

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I'm going to try and not post to this thread again until it becomes clearer what the club intends to do this summer.

But I remain of the opinion that we need to add a top quality forward, to replace Sturridge, we need to upgrade Lallana in attacking midfield and we need at least one defender.
I'm not having a pop at you for your opinions mate (although it may come across like i am),i want you to keep posting in here,all i'm saying is that you seem to not take on board how the club have worked since Klopp came in,whats been said and done by him and FSG,and how the building of the squad has progressed in the past 4 years,like theres been a specific time scale,season on season,to what departments get fixed to produce the squad we have now,there's obviously a plan but you're not on board with it,as it still comes across like its not good enough for you.

If you look at whats been achieved in that time period,it's pretty remarkable,yet with every window,we've gone above and beyond,improved areas of the team,we've now won the CL and have a squad getting better and better and still young enough to reach higher levels of progression,yet you still make posts about whats needed (which i don't have a problem with atm,as its still early in the window and we do need a couple of new faces,that i agree with you) but it's the way you post,they always start off like your one yesterday then it turns into a financial thing,where the club needs to spend more (net or not) and FSG are taking money out of the club (thats my issue,i just hope you don't go down that route,when/if we back off this Inflated transfer window and save our funds for better value next year,which could be the reason for not getting what you want).

Like i said though,it's not my place to tell you what to post,keep posting,just please stop going over old ground disregarding what the club/Klopp are doing,then turn it into FSG/finances when we are in a good place.
 

Mascot88

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Ultimately I just think it's dangerous and to be honest a bit complacent to think we don't really need to improve.
You’re strawmanning again.

Nobody is saying we don’t need to improve. The trouble is that your version of ‘improving’ is inexorably tied to the idea of buying new players.

I think we can buy nobody, and still continue to improve and grow as a team.

Edit: And before you reply, I’m obviously not advocating doing nothing in the market.
 

Mousecat

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At the end of all this, we give our opinions and then we're spectators. We all read the game very differently and that's part of the reason why we come here, to say this is how it is. It's competitive. You give your opinion, we all remember the conversation, and then we watch and see who is right and wrong, and then we get to know a bit more about the game, because we've staked something on it, so we pay even more attention. Like a kind of intellectual bet. There's always more riding on it when you're invested in it.

So, I see us having struggled a bit more than City to get our points total and I think the midfield was a big part of the problem and I also think we can't rely on one player who hasn't played competitive football for a year and another who hasn't gone more than a couple of months without injury to provide what we missed in that area.

Other people don't think it's that big of a problem. We don't even play that way anyway and besides, those two will be just fine. Watch and see.

So, let's see how it turns out, and if the club see it the same way. It should start getting busy over the next couple of weeks so not long before we find out.
 

Kopstar

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You not the full shilling mate?

It's relevant to your point about Fernandinho. Not rocket science this
Which I referenced in terms of City's luck. They got away with it last season by not having to cope without him too often despite him being 33 and getting away with professional fouls with impunity.

City not having cover for him last year is something they got away with last year. Signing someone now doesn't change that for last year.

If you want(ed) to discuss how they've potentially militated incase they're not so lucky this year then sure, Rodri is a potentially astute signing.

Weird that in order to suggest that I'm somehow unhinged for not comprehending, you have to deliberately edit out the part of my post where I specifically allow for the fact that you may have gone off on a tangent.
 

jackh1092

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Awaiting the Echo and the usual crowd to quash any Ceballos rumours.....hope it's true though, he'd be some siging.