Who would you buy?

Mascot88

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Was Sepp promised 40 starts?

I'm not asking us to sign Alaba or whoever, there's plenty of scope to strengthen in that position without spending untold millions.
Sepp is, what, 17 years old? I would expect Liverpool have set out a career path for him that promises him what he needs at this stage of his career.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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Sepp is, what, 17 years old? I would expect Liverpool have set out a career path for him that promises him what he needs at this stage of his career.
When he signed club said he'd be coming in initially for the academy with a view to getting some first-team appearances sooner rather than later. I don't see what's so unreasonable about looking for something similar at LB as well.
 

Mascot88

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The other factor is this discussion is Nathaniel Clyne. Everyone assumes he will be leaving, but I’ve not heard any rumours or stories linking him with a move.

He can play right and left, and obviously while we would lose a certain amount of attacking impetus, he is useful in that regard. He may have been told to stay put and see out his contract (next summer).

I also would not be surprised to see Ox be asked to play the odd game at full back next season, as well.
 

Mascot88

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When he signed club said he'd be coming in initially for the academy with a view to getting some first-team appearances sooner rather than later. I don't see what's so unreasonable about looking for something similar at LB as well.
Sure, but ‘Academy, with a view to some first team appearances later on’ could equally apply to Lewis or Larouci.
 

Limiescouse

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But they weren't going to be able to make that call from the beginning of the season though.
...
I don't think any club would simply throw him in the U23s from the start (at the exclusion of Lewis) just on the off-chance it might pay off.
I didn't say either of those things though. All I said is that if they got to the point where they believed in him enough to bank on him being Moreno's replacement, continuing to play Lewis in the U23s to allow his development to continue would have taken a very distant back seat.

I dont know if he's played enough U23 football to think he had already surpassed Lewis. I will acknowledge though that sometimes development happens in bursts and it's not unreasonable to imagine them thinking he'd outgrown the U18s and then watching him in the U23s and immediately thinking he was ready to jump again. However, I don't think you'd based your entire squad planning around a position (i.e. planning on using as the 2nd choice LB) over such a small window of form for a young player. As a third option, maybe. Maybe with a hope of not needing a 2nd option until the winter when he'd had another half season of U23 football. I dont know, and Im not arguing against him being able to make the step up. I am simply saying that IF he had already been earmarked for such an important role for next year, his development would have taken priority over someone else lower in the pecking order.
 
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Zinedine Biscan

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Sure, but ‘Academy, with a view to some first team appearances later on’ could equally apply to Lewis or Larouci.
Problem is I don't see it being applied to Lewis, hence my concern with this position in particular. I've not read or seen anything that suggests he's someone who will cut it at this level. Larouci seems to have physical gifts Lewis does not, but as Limie has outlined that I agree with, looking at the path he's been on so far I don't believe he's the player the club will be backing for the role at this time.

I mean, I'm someone who has spent over a year arguing that Wilson deserves a place in the squad and was against signing Shaqiri to push him out, who still gets stick for championing Pacheco. If I thought there was a young tyro breaking through at left-back I would be all over that like a rash. Practically nothing gives me as much satisfaction as a fan as seeing a youngster breaking into the team.

So bringing this up is not something I do lightly. I look at the current options and think we have a problem as it stands. I don't want us to spend big, I'm not demanding a huge name or recognised international here. I just think we're set to leave ourselves understrength when it's fully within our power to address that.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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Let me put it another way. We know from Reddy etc that the club wanted Lloyd Kelly. All fair enough. However, he went elsewhere. And our alternative plan appears to be a kid we basically just deemed as not good enough by dint of the fact we wanted to buy another player to come in directly ahead of them.

Either there's a need, which the club seems to agree on hence interest in Kelly, or there isn't, in which case why try for him? We're not a club that makes signings willy-nilly just in case.

If it's the former scenario, as it appears to be, where's the alternative? As promising as he's supposed to be, I don't think Kelly is the type of player where you go 'it's him or nobody', as we did for VVD.
 

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I don't think Kelly is comparable with either Lewis or Larouci is he? I thought Kelly was principally a CB who gets game time at LB as part of his development - much like Gomez was. He can cover LB but he's expected to be a left-sided CB long term? Might have got that wrong?!

Whereas Lewis and Larouci definitely aren't CBs. Their future is likely to be at Full-back or on the wing.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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I don't think Kelly is comparable with either Lewis or Larouci is he? I thought Kelly was principally a CB who gets game time at LB as part of his development - much like Gomez was. He can cover LB but he's expected to be a left-sided CB long term? Might have got that wrong?!

Whereas Lewis and Larouci definitely aren't CBs. Their future is likely to be at Full-back or on the wing.
We'll see where Howe plays him, but for Bristol City Kelly played 41 out of 47 games last season at LB.


Edit: that's total appearances for BC, rather than just last season. If anything emphasises the point.
 

gasband

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For defence I think we are pretty sorted out. In CD, unless Lovren goes, we do have 4 established CBs except for the fact that 3 of them seem have injuries pretty often but expect we will keep these 4 at least this season.

RB is sorted too. Klopp definitely wants to keep Clyne as he wanted in Jan but it was right as Clyne wanted to play and coming back from a long injury, he will get match fitness only away from Liverpool. But now, unless Clyne seriously gets a good offer to leave, I think he is a more than capable competition to TAA.

LB is the one that requires some thinking here. But I think unless Klopp can get someone out there who can give Robertson a run for his place, I think he will have Milner and youths backup here.

Midfield is the least priority to buy someone.

The biggest priority is to buy someone who can replace anyone from the front 3. I would be disappointed if we cannot get someone in. Its great we have youths and Origi but none has shown that they can keep any of the trio out from starting 11 and we need serious competition and not just bodies.
 

Kopstar

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We'll see where Howe plays him, but for Bristol City Kelly played 41 out of 47 games last season at LB.


Edit: that's total appearances for BC, rather than just last season. If anything emphasises the point.
Sure, but 50 of Gomez's first 72 senior appearances were as a full-back. Of his 24 senior appearances for Charlton only 9 were at CB and only 1 in his first 14 games.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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Sure, but 50 of Gomez's first 72 senior appearances were as a full-back. Of his 24 senior appearances for Charlton only 9 were at CB and only 1 in his first 14 games.
That's not far off half though, whereas from a greater number of games Kelly's is more like 90% at LB. I don't think it's unreasonable to look at that and say we were interested in him for that role, even if only in the short term (because who knows).
 

Kopstar

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That's not far off half though, whereas from a greater number of games Kelly's is more like 90% at LB. I don't think it's unreasonable to look at that and say we were interested in him for that role, even if only in the short term (because who knows).
If you want to use the larger sample size for Gomez it's 69.4% at full back compared to 87.2% for Kelly. I mean, it's fairly normal for young CBs to be introduced to senior football as full-backs, isn't it?

By contrast, I don't think Lewis or Larouci have ever played CB.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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If you want to use the larger sample size for Gomez it's 69.4% at full back compared to 87.2% for Kelly. I mean, it's fairly normal for young CBs to be introduced to senior football as full-backs, isn't it?

By contrast, I don't think Lewis or Larouci have ever played CB.
I'd say Gomez's build, 6'2, is also more conducive to a future, at the top level, at CB than Kelly's (5'10). I doubt our interest in VDB was plucked from the air after Kelly fell through, it went through too quickly for that, so why would we be recruiting two CB prospects in the same window?
 

Zinedine Biscan

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I mean, while it's impossible to disprove the absence of a thing, all I can do is look at the available evidence - that Kelly is a kid who's played 9/10 games as a senior professional at LB, who's built more like a full-back than a CB, who was targeted by a club that just lost a senior LB and eventually bought by a club in need of a first-choice LB (Charlie Daniels turns 33 in September and is recovering from knee surgery) - and conclude that, in the short term if nothing else, he was being looked at in regard to the LB position.
 

Kopstar

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I'd say Gomez's build, 6'2, is also more conducive to a future, at the top level, at CB than Kelly's (5'10). I doubt our interest in VDB was plucked from the air after Kelly fell through, it went through too quickly for that, so why would we be recruiting two CB prospects in the same window?
Lloyd Kelly is listed as 1.9m (6'3") by transfermarkt?

If he's 5'10" that's a very similar build to Ake who played LB in 33 of his first 44 senior club appearances.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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Lloyd Kelly is listed as 1.9m (6'3") by transfermarkt?

If he's 5'10" that's a very similar build to Ake who played LB in 33 of his first 44 senior club appearances.
Must have had a growth spurt since his Wiki was updated. I still stick to my reasoning above your post.
 

William Clarke

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I'm fully behind the team, never been a fan of Lallana, I've made that clear many times. Like they say, opinions are like arseholes, everybody has one. Only mine.
I like Lallana and have done ever since he came, but I saw the funny side of your post with a whole £1 towards Fernandes. :well done: lol
 

Flobs

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All I can say and this goes for flobs too is if you don't think keita is a very talented player, I'm not sure what you consider talented. The guy can do everything you want a midfielder to do. Injuries aren't something that he can really do anything about.
As I have made clear I don't think about whether Keita is talented or not, that for now is Klopp's job as far as I'm concerned.
All I'm saying is that from what I have seen of him he is below Lallana in the pecking order. this is because from the small sample size i have seen of him this last season he got nowhere near fitting the bill for our midfield. He's passing was well below par, he got tackled too easily (couldn't hold the ball up), we couldn't get any idea of his vision because his passing was so poor and defensively he didn't make an impact but one must think from what we saw it's not good enough.
Even if he has talent he's yet to show it and needs to work hard to be taken as a serious contender for the 1st team. That's before considering his injury record which is poor this season and hasn't helped him integrate the 1st team.
As I keep saying I hope he becomes good. It's great to think that because we bought him he must be good and talented however from what we have seen he does nothing to improve on what we already had and what we had has been criticised quite a lot in the past so I haven't a clue why Keita's impact so far can not be criticised.
If you think Keita had a good season for us then I think it's you who has a problem not me Germanred or anyone else who are criticising what they saw from him last season.
 

Red over the water

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The left back situation is a bit of a conundrum. If we sign someone who is pretty good - and they would have to be or we shouldn’t bother, they might fear stifling their career sitting on the bench and only appearing here and there.

So one of two options needs to happen, to my mind. We either sign a versatile player, or stick with what we’ve got.

Versatile player
Could work a few ways. Could be versatile up and down the flank, offering an option as a winger too. Possibly Sessegnon. Possibly Firpo. Could be versatile and able to cover both full back spots, someone like Tierney. Could be versatile and able to cover left back and central defence, like Nathan Ake. I could see the sense in signing any of those players, and their versatility would see them get games. However, probably not enough games, so they would consider all their options.

Stick with what we’ve got
This may be what we end up doing. Robbo has got the bulk of it covered (assuming no bad injury comes along). But when he needs a rest, and he will, what will we do? As pointed out above, we haven’t sold Clyne yet, so maybe we will keep him. Or maybe Milner will be an occasional left back option? He played a whole season there and did well, then when Robbo emerged he said (I’m sure professionally) that he didn’t want to do that again! But now he is one year nearer to the end of his time playing, and needs must, and its another way for him to get into the team and get some games, so maybe he will be OK with that? And finally Larouci. Looks like he might have a good future.

Conclusion
I’m chilled even if we don’t sign anyone. I think between Milner and Larouci (assuming he’s ahead of Lewis) we’ve got it covered. Milner to play 5-6 times at left back, Larouci to play 1-3, Robbo to get his rest, and then the following season Milner moves on and Larouci comes into the picture after being blooded this season.
 

Hope in your heart

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I’m endlessly fascinated by this tendency to assume everyone else is going to improve and we won’t.

The most important thing for us, regardless of signings, is that this is a squad growing and maturing together. We will be better next year - there is another 10% for us next year just by the squad being a year more experienced and familiar with each other.
At the start of last season, I predicted that Tottenham would be very strong during the coming season, due to the simple fact that everyone would stay and grow together as a team. Until January, I was proven right, as they were flying in the league and in Europe. But then, a few injuries started to take their toll. The second half of the season was quite horrible for them, their CL run notwithstanding. They ended the league season with six points less than the previous one.

Like yourself, I believe that we aren't at our peak yet, in terms of team togetherness, but a few key injuries could change that picture very quickly. As @Billy Biskix wrote somewhere else, maybe what happened to Tottenham could be a lesson for us to learn from?

On the other hand, Klopp knows where Brewster stands in terms of development, and where Ox stands in term of fitness (we know his quality already). Both these players, if they can make a difference, will be like a couple of new quality signings for us.
 

William Clarke

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At the start of last season, I predicted that Tottenham would be very strong during the coming season, due to the simple fact that everyone would stay and grow together as a team. Until January, I was proven right, as they were flying in the league and in Europe. But then, a few injuries started to take their toll. The second half of the season was quite horrible for them, their CL run notwithstanding. They ended the league season with six points less than the previous one.

Like yourself, I believe that we aren't at our peak yet, in terms of team togetherness, but a few key injuries could change that picture very quickly. As @Billy Biskix wrote somewhere else, maybe what happened to Tottenham could be a lesson for us to learn from?

On the other hand, Klopp knows where Brewster stands in terms of development, and where Ox stands in term of fitness (we know his quality already). Both these players, if they can make a difference, will be like a couple of new quality signings for us.
A well reasoned post @Hope in your heart and I fully agree with your comments. We have to take stock of what happened to the Spuds and realise that as we grow as a team it only takes a couple of injuries to key players to put us on the back foot. Injuries aside, we are strong enough to compete again next year.
 

redfanman

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Lloyd Kelly is listed as 1.9m (6'3") by transfermarkt?

If he's 5'10" that's a very similar build to Ake who played LB in 33 of his first 44 senior club appearances.
I was going to mention his similarity to Ake.
 

redfanman

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I'd say Gomez's build, 6'2, is also more conducive to a future, at the top level, at CB than Kelly's (5'10). I doubt our interest in VDB was plucked from the air after Kelly fell through, it went through too quickly for that, so why would we be recruiting two CB prospects in the same window?
I think we've let several young CBs go this window (or is Masterson the only one?), so signing multiple players, particularly if they can cover more than one position looks reasonable - we also brought in that french lad in January.
 

Kopstar

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I was going to mention his similarity to Ake.
I actually thought that the main reason he's been assured of getting minutes next season is because Bournemouth were/are considering off-loading Ake. Since Kelly signed there have been reliable papers linking Ake with a move to City for £40m, I think.
 

redfanman

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At the start of last season, I predicted that Tottenham would be very strong during the coming season, due to the simple fact that everyone would stay and grow together as a team. Until January, I was proven right, as they were flying in the league and in Europe. But then, a few injuries started to take their toll. The second half of the season was quite horrible for them, their CL run notwithstanding. They ended the league season with six points less than the previous one.

Like yourself, I believe that we aren't at our peak yet, in terms of team togetherness, but a few key injuries could change that picture very quickly. As @Billy Biskix wrote somewhere else, maybe what happened to Tottenham could be a lesson for us to learn from?

On the other hand, Klopp knows where Brewster stands in terms of development, and where Ox stands in term of fitness (we know his quality already). Both these players, if they can make a difference, will be like a couple of new quality signings for us.
Wasnt Spur's squad weaker than ours to start off with though?
 

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Wasnt Spur's squad weaker than ours to start off with though?
Maybe. But my point was that the season before last, they ended on 77 points. I expected them to become even stronger, as they were able to keep all their key players together. In the end, they ended with six points less, at 71 points.

Anyway, I'm drifing away from topic a bit. Whom would I want us to buy?