Who would you buy?

[Iluvatar]

I won't rush to judge these kids on the account of a good game against Tranmere but I have been convinced for quite a while that Hoever and Brewster would be getting some decent minutes over the next two seasons - in Hoever's case at right back before becoming a centre back. Now, I'm not so sure he will become a centre back in the future, his physical and technical traits look so much better suited to that position than Gomez'.

I agree, he glides over the pitch. Seems to have huge technical ability as well. Gomez whilst silky in possession he is no Trent, Hoever is much more similar (and suits us far more than Clyne - irrespective of his goal, he always looks awkward in possession).

 

[GermanRed]

4-3-3
Alisson
TAA Matip VVD Robertson
Ox Fabinho Wijnaldum
Salah Firmino Mané

4-3-1-2
Mignolet
KJH Lovren Gomez Larouci
Keita Henderson Milner
Shaqiri
Brewster Origi

Didn't even use Clyne and Lallana. The second lineup should be strong enough to beat non PL sides in the domestic cups.

 

[Kopstar]

4-3-3
Alisson
TAA Matip Gomez Robertson
Ox Fabinho Wijnaldum
Salah Firmino Mané

4-3-1-2
Mignolet
KJH Lovren Gomez Larouci
Keita Henderson Milner
Shaqiri
Brewster Origi

Didn't even use Clyne and Lallana. The second lineup should be strong enough to beat non PL sides in the domestic cups.

*cough* Virgil *cough*

 

[GermanRed]

*cough* Virgil *cough*

Fixed. Thanks.

 

[RedForever2014]

Now that Klopp has confirmed that there won't be any major signings this summer, I'll comment again.

It's great to see such promising youngsters in action, and the need to invest is lessened by the youngsters coming through.

But investment in players ready to compete for best 11 places against all levels of opposition is still needed, and it's a mistake not to sign anyone.

A squad built to compete even if you get injuries to key players, needs to have like for like alternatives who are able to play many matches in succession, including against top sides, at a time when you have no choice. Players who are merely good enough to play when you choose and against who you choose is not a squad built to compete regardless of injuries.

Even if Brewster is the mercurial new boy, and is going to contribute more this season than the declining Sturridge did last season, and even if Origi is reborn and is a solid back up, it doesn't mean you don't buy a proven 4th quality forward of a similar level to the front three, so as to ensure your competitiveness.

Shaqiri is at his peak and has never shown in his career to date an ability to play regularly for a top side. Lallana is declining and rarely available. We could easily have upgraded one of those two.

If Bobby, Mo or Mane get injured or fatigued and are out a month or more, results will suffer if the only back ups are Origi, Brewster and Shaqiri, especially if key matches are involved.

This is not to say the club isn't in a good place, nor that we won't improve in certain areas, especially in midfield with Fabinho fully settled, Keita 12 months into his Anfield career and Oxlade back.

But there are clear issues - the lack of full back rotation, the injury prone nature of centre backs, the lack of a lock picker in attacking midfield, and - above all - the lack of a summer off for the front three and the lack of a proven similar level alternative to them.

It's really disappointing that the club waited a decade to become European top dogs and then chose not to leverage it by way of top signings.

And yes, to me it very much looks like the 2018 spending was a purely Coutinho fuelled bonanza and that FSG are now in the dividend collection phase of their tenure, via FSM cuts of commercial deals.

Maybe this summer's frugality is because the club won't be getting the full £142m for Coutinho, most likely the £105m without add-ons that would have come only if he stays at Barce.

You've only got to read the LFC News, aka Liverpool Echo, to see LFC's spin machine utilising its cosy relationship with the likes of Doyle to justify the lack of transfer activity, with improved player contracts and returning players cited as new signings.

Listen, we will compete, we will win some trophies, but if we're talking about winning everything possible from the position we were in on the morning of June 2nd, that for me is undoubtedly compromised by the club's failure to add at least one proven quality best 11 level player this summer.

That's all I'm going to say for now, even if people reply.

 

[ILLOK]

I'm quite happy with the squad, and happy the young players we already have at the club will be given a chance to play some football.

There's little point fighting off City, United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Barcelona, Ajax, Madrid, Munich etc for the likes of Brewster, Elliot, Hoever, Van Den Berg if we're too scared to actually play them.

 

[redfanman]

And yes, to me it very much looks like the 2018 spending was a purely Coutinho fuelled bonanza and that FSG are now in the dividend collection phase of their tenure, via FSM cuts of commercial deals.

Maybe this summer's frugality is because the club won't be getting the full £142m for Coutinho, most likely the £105m without add-ons that would have come only if he stays at Barce.

While we may not have the big pile of cash we had when selling Coutinho to re-invest, there is easily enough money there for at least one good signing to match our club record, or more at lower prices without FSG dipping into their pockets which suggests that it isnt a money issue but a deliberate decision by Klopp - unless you think Edwards has lost his magic touch and cant find anyone good enough to strengthen our squad.

@Kopstar pointed out last season we have already locked in a big chunk (I think £20m at least) of the add ons from the Coutiinho deal because of appearances and their league win. I think there might have been a sell on clause too if the other add ons werent met to protect us from an early sale.

We've already sold Ings (£18.5m?) and Camacho (£7m). Clyne (10-15m) is expected to follow. Maybe the likes of Wilson (25m) and Kent (£10m?) too.

Thats on top of the usual £30m if that hasnt been used up by the bonuses and new contracts.

Given how eager FSG are to get Klopp to sign a new contract, do you really believe they are stopping him from spending the above money?

 

[GaryBarlow99]

Ivory Coast are out of the AFCON now so if we are interested in Pepe or Cornet we might see movement on them soonish.

 

[Danny_]

Here is the PL table 2018-2019

Team	GP	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	PTS
Manchester City	38	32	2	4	95	23	72	98
Liverpool	38	30	7	1	89	22	67	97

vs

PL table 2017-2018

Pos	Team	P	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts

1	Man City	38	32	4	2	106	27	79	100
2	Man Utd	38	25	6	7	68	28	40	81
3	Tottenham	38	23	8	7	74	36	38	77
4	Liverpool	38	21	12	5	84	38	46	75

Most of our improvement is down to our defense but our GF stat also increased by 5. However, that was not nearly enough. City's GF of 95 was actually a drop of 11 from the previous year and we should not expect them to do anything other than increase it this season. So, to win the league, we will probably need a GF (assuming our defense remains as good as it is) of at least 95. We need to find 6 more goals than last season that turn a few draws into wins.

 

[ILLOK]

Had we conceded 1 goal less or scored 1 goal more (in any of the games we didn't win) we'd have won the league.

 

[redfanman]

Here is the PL table 2018-2019

Team	GP	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	PTS
Manchester City	38	32	2	4	95	23	72	98
Liverpool	38	30	7	1	89	22	67	97

vs

PL table 2017-2018

Pos	Team	P	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts

1	Man City	38	32	4	2	106	27	79	100
2	Man Utd	38	25	6	7	68	28	40	81
3	Tottenham	38	23	8	7	74	36	38	77
4	Liverpool	38	21	12	5	84	38	46	75

Most of our improvement is down to our defense but our GF stat also increased by 5. However, that was not nearly enough. City's GF of 95 was actually a drop of 11 from the previous year and we should not expect them to do anything other than increase it this season. So, to win the league, we will probably need a GF (assuming our defense remains as good as it is) of at least 95. We need to find 6 more goals than last season that turn a few draws into wins.

Or just not concede the 1 against City.

 

[Zinedine Biscan]

Or just not concede the 1 against City.

It really was that close, wasn't it. As much as anything else, I feel like our priority has to be to improve our league H2H against them next season. A win and ours and draw at theirs would do very nicely, and shouldn't be beyond us.

 

[Iluvatar]

Here is the PL table 2018-2019

Team	GP	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	PTS
Manchester City	38	32	2	4	95	23	72	98
Liverpool	38	30	7	1	89	22	67	97

vs

PL table 2017-2018

Pos	Team	P	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts

1	Man City	38	32	4	2	106	27	79	100
2	Man Utd	38	25	6	7	68	28	40	81
3	Tottenham	38	23	8	7	74	36	38	77
4	Liverpool	38	21	12	5	84	38	46	75

Most of our improvement is down to our defense but our GF stat also increased by 5. However, that was not nearly enough. City's GF of 95 was actually a drop of 11 from the previous year and we should not expect them to do anything other than increase it this season. So, to win the league, we will probably need a GF (assuming our defense remains as good as it is) of at least 95. We need to find 6 more goals than last season that turn a few draws into wins.

I don't get the narrative that City will be as good next season, they are currently replacing the core of their team which cannot be underestimated at how that can impact on performance and those last minute winners etc.

 

[Mascot88]

Now that Klopp has confirmed that there won't be any major signings this summer, I'll comment again.

It's great to see such promising youngsters in action, and the need to invest is lessened by the youngsters coming through.

But investment in players ready to compete for best 11 places against all levels of opposition is still needed, and it's a mistake not to sign anyone.

A squad built to compete even if you get injuries to key players, needs to have like for like alternatives who are able to play many matches in succession, including against top sides, at a time when you have no choice. Players who are merely good enough to play when you choose and against who you choose is not a squad built to compete regardless of injuries.

Even if Brewster is the mercurial new boy, and is going to contribute more this season than the declining Sturridge did last season, and even if Origi is reborn and is a solid back up, it doesn't mean you don't buy a proven 4th quality forward of a similar level to the front three, so as to ensure your competitiveness.

Shaqiri is at his peak and has never shown in his career to date an ability to play regularly for a top side. Lallana is declining and rarely available. We could easily have upgraded one of those two.

If Bobby, Mo or Mane get injured or fatigued and are out a month or more, results will suffer if the only back ups are Origi, Brewster and Shaqiri, especially if key matches are involved.

This is not to say the club isn't in a good place, nor that we won't improve in certain areas, especially in midfield with Fabinho fully settled, Keita 12 months into his Anfield career and Oxlade back.

But there are clear issues - the lack of full back rotation, the injury prone nature of centre backs, the lack of a lock picker in attacking midfield, and - above all - the lack of a summer off for the front three and the lack of a proven similar level alternative to them.

It's really disappointing that the club waited a decade to become European top dogs and then chose not to leverage it by way of top signings.

And yes, to me it very much looks like the 2018 spending was a purely Coutinho fuelled bonanza and that FSG are now in the dividend collection phase of their tenure, via FSM cuts of commercial deals.

Maybe this summer's frugality is because the club won't be getting the full £142m for Coutinho, most likely the £105m without add-ons that would have come only if he stays at Barce.

You've only got to read the LFC News, aka Liverpool Echo, to see LFC's spin machine utilising its cosy relationship with the likes of Doyle to justify the lack of transfer activity, with improved player contracts and returning players cited as new signings.

Listen, we will compete, we will win some trophies, but if we're talking about winning everything possible from the position we were in on the morning of June 2nd, that for me is undoubtedly compromised by the club's failure to add at least one proven quality best 11 level player this summer.

That's all I'm going to say for now, even if people reply.

Why do you do this?

Klopp said nothing of the sort. I listened to his post match interviews via the Anfield Wrap. He said that it wouldn’t be as big as last summer, but certainly didn’t rule out signings, and was decidedly coy on the matter.

Separate to this John Henry has gone on the record saying that there is money there for Klopp as and when he needs it.

Your problem is that having decided what you think (that FSG are extracting money) you are now hellbent on trying to justify it and prove it, to the point where you are now just actively making stuff up. Putting words into the managers mouth to prove yourself right. Sherlock Holmes had a few words that apply to you.

 

[Mascot88]

It's really disappointing that the club waited a decade to become European top dogs and then chose not to leverage it by way of top signings.

Have you considered that maybe a big reason for the position the club is in is because the manager has staunchly refused to treat his players like disposable assets, bin off five a year and poison team spirit?

 

[Iluvatar]

Have you considered that maybe a big reason for the position the club is in is because the manager has staunchly refused to treat his players like disposable assets, bin off five a year and poison team spirit?

Sancho, Hudson-Odoi & why Liverpool are right relying on Brewster

The striker scored twice against Tranmere on Thursday and is set to be Jurgen Klopp's go-to reserve in attack this season alongside Divock Origi

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

And yet some people refuse to listen to the man himself.

I wonder if we signed Sancho and farmed Brewster on loan it would be what they want?

 

[ubermick]

We're actually in a very weird position when it comes to incoming players. You look at it objectively, ignore personal opinions on players and transfers, who you rate and not, and just look at transfermarkt, the vast majority of our starting 11 are in the top five in their position in the world. (Both fullbacks, VVD, and Salah are the "most expensive" in their position, Alisson, Fabinho, Firmino, Mane are all top five.)

So any player coming in has a lot of boxes to tick. Aside from having the quality to unseat some of the best in the world, they also have to pass the Klopp test - fit the system, mentality, and also the dressing room camaraderie. Just purely in terms of quality, you could count the players on your fingers who'd get into the side who aren't already on our books, and that's not knowing whether or not they'd actually fit/be available.

Alternatively, they have to be "lesser" players, lads who are comfortable coming in to play second fiddle and bide their time, hope that an opportunity presents itself maybe. But they still have to pass that Klopp test - we're not changing the ethos for any one player.

So we have a lot of talk about square pegs in round holes, but we're actually looking at fitting players into a really, really, really weirdly shaped hole, and there just aren't that many out there. And we know for sure that the club won't compromise on that. Lemar was available, the money was there, we walked away. VVD fell apart, and rather than going to another choice, we waited. Klopp wanted Keita, Rangnick wouldn't let him go that season, so we waited.

End of the day, yeah its frustrating we're not unveiling more world class players. I agree. I'm excited about Ox being back, but I think Lallana is light years from being a scrap of help, and there are another 12 months of fatigue added to the legs of the squad as it is. I think Ketia will be a better player this season (at least I fucking hope so).

FWIW, I think Mbappe 2020 will happen. I think we want him, I think we'll get him, but like with Keita and VVD we'll have to wait for him and the club are content to keep the powder dry to make it happen. (And I'd rather they did that than pull a repeat of the Andy Carroll incident)

 

[Zinedine Biscan]

I think, in a weird kinda way, you could say we're the victims, as it were, of just how successful our recruitment has been. You look at someone like United or whoever, buying up players and spending money... largely to replace the players they bought a year or two ago who have turned out to be shite (Lukaku, Pogba etc). Meanwhile we're signed lads who have fitted like a glove and developed into the world-class bracket in many cases. We're not throwing money about like others, because we don't have to, because we've spent so wisely.

I think an argument could be made for a quality, versatile attacker to add proper depth up front, and we may still do that, but it's really nice to finally be in a position where we're talking about 'nice to haves' rather than 'must-haves'.

 

[Nikola]

This is where academy steps in, or at least I hope they will - certain positions can be covered from within. I don't want to put too much pressure on the likes of Hoever and Larouci but it is hard when you see their progress and their age, as well as the fact that they play in roles that need covering at the moment - regardless of their flaws.

It would be great if Wilson stepped up, too, especially with Shaqiri out and Lallana perennially injured. He looked subdued against Tranmere, maybe it was his nerves getting the better of him. As for Lallana, if he was always fit, one of AOC and Keita, or even both, would be on the bench, that's how highly I rate him. Sadly, it will never happen for him, so I think it would be best if club Liverpool could find him a new club, he just can't be counted on.

 

[ubermick]

I think an argument could be made for a quality, versatile attacker to add proper depth up front, and we may still do that, but it's really nice to finally be in a position where we're talking about 'nice to haves' rather than 'must-haves'.

Agree wholeheartedly, but argument could be countermade for saying that Origi last season - sitting quietly and stepping in when needed, as well as banging in some vital goals against Everton, Barca, and Spurs in the Final - earned a crack at that role. And then there's Brewster, who signed a new deal with us on the promise that the club gave him a fair crack of the whip.

 

[jgw_geneseo]

Agree wholeheartedly, but argument could be countermade for saying that Origi last season - sitting quietly and stepping in when needed, as well as banging in some vital goals against Everton, Barca, and Spurs in the Final - earned a crack at that role. And then there's Brewster, who signed a new deal with us on the promise that the club gave him a fair crack of the whip.

Also agree. I think our hesitation to bring in an attacking player is all about Brewster. If he doesn't live up to his billing, I think we look in Jan or next summer for depth. If he does, only Mbappe next year lol

 

[redfanman]

Also agree. I think our hesitation to bring in an attacking player is all about Brewster. If he doesn't live up to his billing, I think we look in Jan or next summer for depth. If he does, only Mbappe next year lol

No, Brewster plays centrally. The club have said they're looking for a forward who can play flexibly.

They did say last season though Brewster was part of the reason they weren't looking for a 9 then.

 

[jgw_geneseo]

No, Brewster plays centrally. The club have said they're looking for a forward who can play flexibly.

They did say last season though Brewster was part of the reason they weren't looking for a 9 then.

When did club say that? All the usual club mouthpieces saying not much happening.

It would allow them to play Firmino wide if needed.

And two years ago, Origi played central as well.

It's all speculation, but I think everyone in front three is very flexible and able to play across all spots, and if Brewster lives up to his billing, I expect he could fill in wide for Mane or Salah as well.

 

[indianscouser]

I'd like us to address the creativity in midfield.
All depends on fitness of Ox and lallana, and maybe Wilson?
Inspite of being brilliant and having hug energy, there were times last season where our midfield lacked creativity.
Not sure if clyne could cover for LB, that is another department we need reinforcement.

 

[Nikola]

I guess midfield creativity depends the most on AOC's and Keita's form and fitness. Trent and Robbo did a great job last season, to put it mildly, but you always hope the rest of the team will do their bit in regards to creating chances (and putting them away). I think Klopp is looking forward so much to working with these two, I think he will set up his team to make the most out of them in particular if they are on form. It might possibly mean that the team will be a bit less reliant on fullbacks but then again, rarely another player in this side could profit more from their through passes than both fullbacks.

The Tranmere match reminded me what certain players can do, especially the youngsters. I wish Woodburn could speed up his progress, he's become something of a forgotten man when we talk about the next academy player to break through. His technical ability is outstanding, he's a forward-thinking player, I'm sure Klopp would love to develop him into an attacking midfielder or even a centre forward of some sort. He's not the quickest but neither is Firmino, yet you can't imagine Klopp's Liverpool without him. I'm sure that, if he makes it at Liverpool, he will be a pretty quick thinking, lucid player, regardless of position and role he would play.

 

[SirBillShankly]

Can't help thinking Woodburn is being groomed to be Milner's long-term replacement.

 

[Claymenza]

Only problem I have with this link is Real would try and get Mane in exchange and if they didn’t I doubt Liverpool won’t get Asencio

I wouldn't want to part ways with mane. Let's see how Klopp handles this, because there hasn't been transfer activity for the good reason that the nerds are operating silently.

 

[Bonus]

We're actually in a very weird position when it comes to incoming players. You look at it objectively, ignore personal opinions on players and transfers, who you rate and not, and just look at transfermarkt, the vast majority of our starting 11 are in the top five in their position in the world. (Both fullbacks, VVD, and Salah are the "most expensive" in their position, Alisson, Fabinho, Firmino, Mane are all top five.)

So any player coming in has a lot of boxes to tick. Aside from having the quality to unseat some of the best in the world, they also have to pass the Klopp test - fit the system, mentality, and also the dressing room camaraderie. Just purely in terms of quality, you could count the players on your fingers who'd get into the side who aren't already on our books, and that's not knowing whether or not they'd actually fit/be available.

But the other side of the arguement is, (and maybe playing the devils advocate here),
None of the players we have our team bar IMO VVD and Allison were in the top 5 of their positions in the world.
It was playing under Klopps influence that put them there.

If I was player and LFC and Klopp came calling, and if I had enough confidence in my abilities,
I wouldnt be thinking, I will never break into that first team,
instead I would be thinking.....

If Klopp can make a LB from a relegated team into a world class FB and Champs League winner in 2 years, what can he do for me?
If Klopp can take a youth team player and in 3 years make him a brilliant, full International, champs league winner what can he do for me

the 2 above are only examples of the way Klopp has improved players,
I dare say there are many more examples...

 

[Dave-D]

I wouldn't want to part ways with mane. Let's see how Klopp handles this, because there hasn't been transfer activity for the good reason that the nerds are operating silently.

I agree, as good as Asencio can be I’d definitely rather keep Mane.

Hopefully Real go for Neymar and Liverpool can get them over a barrel and take Asencio off their hands

 

[Anfield rd Dreamer]

But the other side of the arguement is, (and maybe playing the devils advocate here),
None of the players we have our team bar IMO VVD and Allison were in the top 5 of their positions in the world.
It was playing under Klopps influence that put them there.

If I was player and LFC and Klopp came calling, and if I had enough confidence in my abilities,
I wouldnt be thinking, I will never break into that first team,
instead I would be thinking.....

If Klopp can make a LB from a relegated team into a world class FB and Champs League winner in 2 years, what can he do for me?
If Klopp can take a youth team player and in 3 years make him a brilliant, full International, champs league winner what can he do for me

the 2 above are only examples of the way Klopp has improved players,
I dare say there are many more examples...

It also ignores the fact that in modern football you need more than an 11. No "first choice 11" will get you past 50+/60+ games it's just not happening. As a bare minimum you need 15 outfield players who between them cover every position at least twice and are of the same kind of quality levels. After that you could get by with a bit of emergency cover from squad filler types and talented academy prospects. But I'd say we are one real good attacker who can play left forward short of being able to cover every position twice with a top level player. We've got fantastic strength in depth at CB and CM it's only left fullback and left forward we are struggling. So close to being a perfect squad.