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Who would you buy?

Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
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It's really disappointing that the club waited a decade to become European top dogs and then chose not to leverage it by way of top signings.
Have you considered that maybe a big reason for the position the club is in is because the manager has staunchly refused to treat his players like disposable assets, bin off five a year and poison team spirit?
 

Iluvatar

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Have you considered that maybe a big reason for the position the club is in is because the manager has staunchly refused to treat his players like disposable assets, bin off five a year and poison team spirit?

And yet some people refuse to listen to the man himself.

I wonder if we signed Sancho and farmed Brewster on loan it would be what they want?
 

ubermick

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We're actually in a very weird position when it comes to incoming players. You look at it objectively, ignore personal opinions on players and transfers, who you rate and not, and just look at transfermarkt, the vast majority of our starting 11 are in the top five in their position in the world. (Both fullbacks, VVD, and Salah are the "most expensive" in their position, Alisson, Fabinho, Firmino, Mane are all top five.)

So any player coming in has a lot of boxes to tick. Aside from having the quality to unseat some of the best in the world, they also have to pass the Klopp test - fit the system, mentality, and also the dressing room camaraderie. Just purely in terms of quality, you could count the players on your fingers who'd get into the side who aren't already on our books, and that's not knowing whether or not they'd actually fit/be available.

Alternatively, they have to be "lesser" players, lads who are comfortable coming in to play second fiddle and bide their time, hope that an opportunity presents itself maybe. But they still have to pass that Klopp test - we're not changing the ethos for any one player.

So we have a lot of talk about square pegs in round holes, but we're actually looking at fitting players into a really, really, really weirdly shaped hole, and there just aren't that many out there. And we know for sure that the club won't compromise on that. Lemar was available, the money was there, we walked away. VVD fell apart, and rather than going to another choice, we waited. Klopp wanted Keita, Rangnick wouldn't let him go that season, so we waited.

End of the day, yeah its frustrating we're not unveiling more world class players. I agree. I'm excited about Ox being back, but I think Lallana is light years from being a scrap of help, and there are another 12 months of fatigue added to the legs of the squad as it is. I think Ketia will be a better player this season (at least I fucking hope so).

FWIW, I think Mbappe 2020 will happen. I think we want him, I think we'll get him, but like with Keita and VVD we'll have to wait for him and the club are content to keep the powder dry to make it happen. (And I'd rather they did that than pull a repeat of the Andy Carroll incident)
 

Zinedine Biscan

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I think, in a weird kinda way, you could say we're the victims, as it were, of just how successful our recruitment has been. You look at someone like United or whoever, buying up players and spending money... largely to replace the players they bought a year or two ago who have turned out to be shite (Lukaku, Pogba etc). Meanwhile we're signed lads who have fitted like a glove and developed into the world-class bracket in many cases. We're not throwing money about like others, because we don't have to, because we've spent so wisely.

I think an argument could be made for a quality, versatile attacker to add proper depth up front, and we may still do that, but it's really nice to finally be in a position where we're talking about 'nice to haves' rather than 'must-haves'.
 

Nikola

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This is where academy steps in, or at least I hope they will - certain positions can be covered from within. I don't want to put too much pressure on the likes of Hoever and Larouci but it is hard when you see their progress and their age, as well as the fact that they play in roles that need covering at the moment - regardless of their flaws.

It would be great if Wilson stepped up, too, especially with Shaqiri out and Lallana perennially injured. He looked subdued against Tranmere, maybe it was his nerves getting the better of him. As for Lallana, if he was always fit, one of AOC and Keita, or even both, would be on the bench, that's how highly I rate him. Sadly, it will never happen for him, so I think it would be best if club Liverpool could find him a new club, he just can't be counted on.
 

ubermick

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I think an argument could be made for a quality, versatile attacker to add proper depth up front, and we may still do that, but it's really nice to finally be in a position where we're talking about 'nice to haves' rather than 'must-haves'.
Agree wholeheartedly, but argument could be countermade for saying that Origi last season - sitting quietly and stepping in when needed, as well as banging in some vital goals against Everton, Barca, and Spurs in the Final - earned a crack at that role. And then there's Brewster, who signed a new deal with us on the promise that the club gave him a fair crack of the whip.
 

jgw_geneseo

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Agree wholeheartedly, but argument could be countermade for saying that Origi last season - sitting quietly and stepping in when needed, as well as banging in some vital goals against Everton, Barca, and Spurs in the Final - earned a crack at that role. And then there's Brewster, who signed a new deal with us on the promise that the club gave him a fair crack of the whip.
Also agree. I think our hesitation to bring in an attacking player is all about Brewster. If he doesn't live up to his billing, I think we look in Jan or next summer for depth. If he does, only Mbappe next year lol
 

redfanman

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Also agree. I think our hesitation to bring in an attacking player is all about Brewster. If he doesn't live up to his billing, I think we look in Jan or next summer for depth. If he does, only Mbappe next year lol
No, Brewster plays centrally. The club have said they're looking for a forward who can play flexibly.

They did say last season though Brewster was part of the reason they weren't looking for a 9 then.
 

jgw_geneseo

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No, Brewster plays centrally. The club have said they're looking for a forward who can play flexibly.

They did say last season though Brewster was part of the reason they weren't looking for a 9 then.
When did club say that? All the usual club mouthpieces saying not much happening.

It would allow them to play Firmino wide if needed.

And two years ago, Origi played central as well.

It's all speculation, but I think everyone in front three is very flexible and able to play across all spots, and if Brewster lives up to his billing, I expect he could fill in wide for Mane or Salah as well.
 

indianscouser

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I'd like us to address the creativity in midfield.
All depends on fitness of Ox and lallana, and maybe Wilson?
Inspite of being brilliant and having hug energy, there were times last season where our midfield lacked creativity.
Not sure if clyne could cover for LB, that is another department we need reinforcement.
 

Nikola

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I guess midfield creativity depends the most on AOC's and Keita's form and fitness. Trent and Robbo did a great job last season, to put it mildly, but you always hope the rest of the team will do their bit in regards to creating chances (and putting them away). I think Klopp is looking forward so much to working with these two, I think he will set up his team to make the most out of them in particular if they are on form. It might possibly mean that the team will be a bit less reliant on fullbacks but then again, rarely another player in this side could profit more from their through passes than both fullbacks.

The Tranmere match reminded me what certain players can do, especially the youngsters. I wish Woodburn could speed up his progress, he's become something of a forgotten man when we talk about the next academy player to break through. His technical ability is outstanding, he's a forward-thinking player, I'm sure Klopp would love to develop him into an attacking midfielder or even a centre forward of some sort. He's not the quickest but neither is Firmino, yet you can't imagine Klopp's Liverpool without him. I'm sure that, if he makes it at Liverpool, he will be a pretty quick thinking, lucid player, regardless of position and role he would play.
 

Claymenza

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Only problem I have with this link is Real would try and get Mane in exchange and if they didn’t I doubt Liverpool won’t get Asencio
I wouldn't want to part ways with mane. Let's see how Klopp handles this, because there hasn't been transfer activity for the good reason that the nerds are operating silently.
 

Bonus

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We're actually in a very weird position when it comes to incoming players. You look at it objectively, ignore personal opinions on players and transfers, who you rate and not, and just look at transfermarkt, the vast majority of our starting 11 are in the top five in their position in the world. (Both fullbacks, VVD, and Salah are the "most expensive" in their position, Alisson, Fabinho, Firmino, Mane are all top five.)

So any player coming in has a lot of boxes to tick. Aside from having the quality to unseat some of the best in the world, they also have to pass the Klopp test - fit the system, mentality, and also the dressing room camaraderie. Just purely in terms of quality, you could count the players on your fingers who'd get into the side who aren't already on our books, and that's not knowing whether or not they'd actually fit/be available.

But the other side of the arguement is, (and maybe playing the devils advocate here),
None of the players we have our team bar IMO VVD and Allison were in the top 5 of their positions in the world.
It was playing under Klopps influence that put them there.

If I was player and LFC and Klopp came calling, and if I had enough confidence in my abilities,
I wouldnt be thinking, I will never break into that first team,
instead I would be thinking.....

If Klopp can make a LB from a relegated team into a world class FB and Champs League winner in 2 years, what can he do for me?
If Klopp can take a youth team player and in 3 years make him a brilliant, full International, champs league winner what can he do for me

the 2 above are only examples of the way Klopp has improved players,
I dare say there are many more examples...
 

Dave-D

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I wouldn't want to part ways with mane. Let's see how Klopp handles this, because there hasn't been transfer activity for the good reason that the nerds are operating silently.
I agree, as good as Asencio can be I’d definitely rather keep Mane.

Hopefully Real go for Neymar and Liverpool can get them over a barrel and take Asencio off their hands
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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But the other side of the arguement is, (and maybe playing the devils advocate here),
None of the players we have our team bar IMO VVD and Allison were in the top 5 of their positions in the world.
It was playing under Klopps influence that put them there.

If I was player and LFC and Klopp came calling, and if I had enough confidence in my abilities,
I wouldnt be thinking, I will never break into that first team,
instead I would be thinking.....

If Klopp can make a LB from a relegated team into a world class FB and Champs League winner in 2 years, what can he do for me?
If Klopp can take a youth team player and in 3 years make him a brilliant, full International, champs league winner what can he do for me

the 2 above are only examples of the way Klopp has improved players,
I dare say there are many more examples...
It also ignores the fact that in modern football you need more than an 11. No "first choice 11" will get you past 50+/60+ games it's just not happening. As a bare minimum you need 15 outfield players who between them cover every position at least twice and are of the same kind of quality levels. After that you could get by with a bit of emergency cover from squad filler types and talented academy prospects. But I'd say we are one real good attacker who can play left forward short of being able to cover every position twice with a top level player. We've got fantastic strength in depth at CB and CM it's only left fullback and left forward we are struggling. So close to being a perfect squad.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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We're not 'struggling' as such, we've just got a few options who aren't necessarily fully proven in those positions.
The left back options are either a CM who can do a decent job there but is in his mid 30s. Two promising young talents that I don't think have played any senior professional football yet. We can cope if we have to but its putting a lot of pressure on Robertson to stay fit all season. They are good enough options for cover/rest. Its if he is out for awhile that it may be a struggle. At left forward the only players who can play similar to Mane if he is out are Salah (just shifts the problem to the right), a midfielder like Ox/Shaq (changes our style of play), Origi (who, despite his goals, doesn't contribute much to the team) or Brewster (who still hasn't played a competitive senior game despite his potential). Yet again if Mane is largely uninjured all season we've got options for cover maybe. But Mane is also first choice to cover for Salah and Firmino so all 3 have to go through a long, game-heavy, season all relatively injury free. It's just taking lots of risks. I just don't understand why people are so reluctant to have the kind of cover options on the wings that we have at GK, CB, RB, CM and CF.
 

ILLOK

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The left back options are either a CM who can do a decent job there but is in his mid 30s. Two promising young talents that I don't think have played any senior professional football yet. We can cope if we have to but its putting a lot of pressure on Robertson to stay fit all season. They are good enough options for cover/rest. Its if he is out for awhile that it may be a struggle. At left forward the only players who can play similar to Mane if he is out are Salah (just shifts the problem to the right), a midfielder like Ox/Shaq (changes our style of play), Origi (who, despite his goals, doesn't contribute much to the team) or Brewster (who still hasn't played a competitive senior game despite his potential). Yet again if Mane is largely uninjured all season we've got options for cover maybe. But Mane is also first choice to cover for Salah and Firmino so all 3 have to go through a long, game-heavy, season all relatively injury free. It's just taking lots of risks. I just don't understand why people are so reluctant to have the kind of cover options on the wings that we have at GK, CB, RB, CM and CF.
Yeah, so not really struggling.
 

Mascot88

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I just don't understand why people are so reluctant to have the kind of cover options on the wings that we have at GK, CB, RB, CM and CF.
Mate, I think you’re strawmanning this a bit. Nobody is opposed to depth, and I don’t think anyone had said they wouldn’t want to bring in the right player.

What people are saying is that they appreciate this is hard, and the right player might not be available, so if we have to go into the season with Milner, Gomez, Clyne, Lewis or Larouci as the cover options that’s OK.

I think Larouci in particular has a big chance to impress this preseason, and if he does well then I can see Klopp giving him a chance. It would certainly fit in more with Klopp's ethos. If that perfect player isn’t there, instead of getting in someone who is only ‘alright’, why not use the kid who been trained in the system for a couple of years now? For all the downsides on experience, his familiarity with Klopp’s system is a huge upside.
 



Anfield rd Dreamer

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Mate, I think you’re strawmanning this a bit. Nobody is opposed to depth, and I don’t think anyone had said they wouldn’t want to bring in the right player.

What people are saying is that they appreciate this is hard, and the right player might not be available, so if we have to go into the season with Milner, Gomez, Clyne, Lewis or Larouci as the cover options that’s OK.

I think Larouci in particular has a big chance to impress this preseason, and if he does well then I can see Klopp giving him a chance. It would certainly fit in more with Klopp's ethos. If that perfect player isn’t there, instead of getting in someone who is only ‘alright’, why not use the kid who been trained in the system for a couple of years now? For all the downsides on experience, his familiarity with Klopp’s system is a huge upside.
See I can see the logic of waiting for the right target even if that means 6 to 12 month wait and coping with what we have till then. We did it with VvD and Keita. But there is still a need. Pretending there isn't a need to justify waiting for the right target is what I'm arguing against. We need left back cover and we need left forward cover. If the right guy (from the academy or the market) isn't going to be ready for 6 to 12 months and we decide to make do with what we have (as we did with VvD struggling at CB for 6 months for instance) then I accept that decision. It's better than bringing in the wrong player and not having room for the right player later. But don't pretend and argue that there isn't a need and that we wont be coping without that person. This is the who would you buy thread and a lot of reactions tend to be "don't need" which I completely disagree with. We do need which is why talk of Mbappe 2020 and why it would fit a need.
 

Mascot88

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See I can see the logic of waiting for the right target even if that means 6 to 12 month wait and coping with what we have till then. We did it with VvD and Keita. But there is still a need. Pretending there isn't a need to justify waiting for the right target is what I'm arguing against. We need left back cover and we need left forward cover. If the right guy (from the academy or the market) isn't going to be ready for 6 to 12 months and we decide to make do with what we have (as we did with VvD struggling at CB for 6 months for instance) then I accept that decision. It's better than bringing in the wrong player and not having room for the right player later. But don't pretend and argue that there isn't a need and that we wont be coping without that person. This is the who would you buy thread and a lot of reactions tend to be "don't need" which I completely disagree with. We do need which is why talk of Mbappe 2020 and why it would fit a need.
I’m a bit confused with this. On one hand you are saying that you can understand waiting for the right player to be available or have developed sufficiently. On the other you are saying people shouldn’t say we need to sign someone.

My argument has always been that we need someone to understudy Robbo - he needs to be not far off that level, willing to play off the bench in the majority of games, have a spot on mentality, not be on mega wages (City cultivate their depth by paying monstrous salaries to their players) and not be too expensive. He has to also be available for transfer.

My concern is that this is a lot to ask, and that player might not actually exist.

Rather than compromise on quality, attitude, or cost, it might be that the most sensible course of action is to look inside the squad at the options there. And there are quite a few. Between Milner, Gomez, Larouci and Lewis there is probably enough cover to go into the season and be OK.
 

SithBaare

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We are probably okay. Understand why people think why we need to spend to keep up with city... My gutfeel is , they are missing the klopp factor.