Who would you buy?

Iluvatar

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Back to who will we buy rather than berating our kids..

I think we are pushing for Havertz with a back up option of Aouar. And I like this thinking! (a no.8 / 10).

The evolution of the midfield is probably next on the list for Klopp, Milner/Lallana as immediate replacements (next summer), longer term; Henderson/Wijnaldum etc. So bringing in Havertz/Aouar to replace both Milner/Lallana looks like a realistic option.

My question is do we think we can get Sancho at the same time? Is that pushing us? Or is that why we held fire this summer?

It's not outside the realms of reality. You'd expect Origi/Shaqiri to move on - That would net us £40mil or so.

So replacing 4 players and bringing in 2 top quality players...

Imagine this next season;

Alisson (26)

A-Arnold (20) -- Gomez (22) -- Van Dijk (28) -- Robertson (25)

Fabinho (25)

Havertz (20) -- Keita (24)

Salah (27) -- Firmino (27) -- Mane (27)
Defense rotation options
Larouci (17)
Hoever (18)
Van Der Berg (17)

Midfield rotation options
Henderson (29)
Wijnaldum (28)
Oxlade (26)

Frontline rotation options
Sancho (19)
Brewster (19)
Elliot (16)

See the succession planning...? All the ages seem to mirror up with peak and youngsters coming through to pick up once they hit 30/31 etc.
 
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Craig_Johnston

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I'm not berating the kids, I'm just pointing out that they aren't at the level some of us believed. I'm criticising the management, if anyone, for over optimism.
 

GermanRed

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@Iluvatar Havertz and Sancho in one window? Don't be so greedy :)

Havertz can happen but he will cost around €100m and we need to make some room in our midfield.
Milner + Lallana out. Havertz + Grujic in. Loan out Curtis Jones.

Sancho is a bit difficult. Would make sense as a Salah replacement but not as an additional attacker. Just signed a new contract. Kid is on ₤190k a week. Salah is the only Liverpool player who earns more at the moment if i'm not mistaken.
 
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Zinedine Biscan

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I'm not berating the kids, I'm just pointing out that they aren't at the level some of us believed. I'm criticising the management, if anyone, for over optimism.
I mean, Hoever for one has already been given a senior appearance and looked very good. There's a difference between dropping one promising kid into an otherwise settled and senior team and playing a whole team of them against an older team featuring some senior internationals.

No, I don't think any of them are likely at the level of, say, an 18-year-old Owen who can come in and stake his claim from the off, but equally if we did need to call on one of them to provide some depth in the odd game at some point, I think they'd be fine.
 

rupzzz

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Clause, unknown? That will likely be his last Dortmund deal, or the highest wage he'll get while he's there. Might sign another one on similar terms that is just preparation for a transfer, with an included(?) or modified clause, like we see with plenty of transfers.
Yep - I see it as Dortmund securing his value now. Problem might be that at such a high wage now, he comes in for a bigger wage in a season or two, disrupting squad harmony - something the Manchester clubs, PSG, and Real/Barca don't give two shits about, so probably puts them ahead of us.

On youth teams being battered - that's never a barometer of where the players are, especially three games in. Last years youth teams look vastly different to this years, with players at new levels (inc up to senior), some players off on loan/sold, and everyone now having to adjust to their new team mates etc. Unless you follow Chelsea/Spurs youth team set ups, it's not really worth getting worried about a few results.
 

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SithBaare

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Having 11 of them playing together is very different from putting one of them into the first team.
Agreed totally. Having one or two youngsters being shepherded by the senior guys has a lot of merit.

Would Gomez or Trent Alexander Arnold be the same players they are right now if it weren't for the likes of vvd/matip/Henderson/milner/fabinho ready to back them up in open play mopping their mistakes. Youngsters will make mistakes , it's a given. But the only way they are gonna learn from the mistakes is if they are playing matches.
 

GaryBarlow99

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@Iluvatar Havertz and Sancho in one window? Don't be so greedy

Havertz can happen but he will cost around €100m and we need to make some room in our midfield.
Milner + Lallana out. Havertz + Grujic in. Loan out Curtis Jones.

Sancho is a bit difficult. Would make sense as a Salah replacement but not as an additional attacker. Just signed a new contract. Kid is on ₤190k a week. Salah is the only Liverpool player who earns more at the moment if i'm not mistaken.
Can't see us going for Sancho with the amount it will cost after signing that deal. Havertz is the one I would love to get now. He can cover Firmino and Mane and play the AM role we have been crying out for the last two seasons.
 

Sweeting

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Yep - I see it as Dortmund securing his value now. Problem might be that at such a high wage now, he comes in for a bigger wage in a season or two, disrupting squad harmony - something the Manchester clubs, PSG, and Real/Barca don't give two shits about, so probably puts them ahead of us.

On youth teams being battered - that's never a barometer of where the players are, especially three games in. Last years youth teams look vastly different to this years, with players at new levels (inc up to senior), some players off on loan/sold, and everyone now having to adjust to their new team mates etc. Unless you follow Chelsea/Spurs youth team set ups, it's not really worth getting worried about a few results.
Also worth mentioning that Spurs and Chelsea are not exactly bad at that level either. They will be expecting a few of the guys in those teams to competing for their first team also.
 

GermanRed

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Can't see us going for Sancho with the amount it will cost after signing that deal. Havertz is the one I would love to get now. He can cover Firmino and Mane and play the AM role we have been crying out for the last two seasons.
I think you’re mistaking Havertz with someone else - maybe Julian Brandt who signed for Dortmund this summer?

Havertz is not a CF/ST and not really a wide attacker.

He is a CAM being used as a #8 in a 4-3-3 under Leverkusen manager Peter Bosz. That’s also where he would start for us.

He’d be our most attacking #8.
 

Nikola

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Havertz is an elite talent, for me he's in the same bracket as Mbappe, only in a different role. I'd hate it if he went to Bayern but then again I'm a cynical hypocrite and would prefer that to seeing him play for any English club that isn't called Liverpool. 100 million euros for a player who can play on the wing but his strongest role is probably the one in which Klopp has already invested about 100 million euros... I'm not sure, I think Bild are talking crap there.
 

Mascot88

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I'm not berating the kids, I'm just pointing out that they aren't at the level some of us believed. I'm criticising the management, if anyone, for over optimism.
You’d need to know the circumstances thought. U23s are hugely variable in terms of development, and we often have kids much younger than at other clubs.
 

GermanRed

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Havertz is an elite talent, for me he's in the same bracket as Mbappe, only in a different role. I'd hate it if he went to Bayern but then again I'm a cynical hypocrite and would prefer that to seeing him play for any English club that isn't called Liverpool. 100 million euros for a player who can play on the wing but his strongest role is probably the one in which Klopp has already invested about 100 million euros... I'm not sure, I think Bild are talking crap there.
Havertz, Mbappe, Sancho, de Ligt, João Felix, Donnarumma, TAA - I’d say these are the standout elite talents. Not sure if anyone else comes close.
 

GermanRed

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Alisson
Gomez(1,88m) Matip(1,95m) VvD(1,93m) Robertson
Havertz(1,88m) Fabinho(1,90m) Grujic(1,90m)
Salah Origi(1,85m) Mané

I think the plan is clear. Klopp is building a squad for his successor Tony Pulis. Everybody run riot in 5...4...3...2...1... :)
 

redfanman

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Alisson
Gomez(1,88m) Matip(1,95m) VvD(1,93m) Robertson
Havertz(1,88m) Fabinho(1,90m) Grujic(1,90m)
Salah Origi(1,85m) Mané

I think the plan is clear. Klopp is building a squad for his successor Tony Pulis. Everybody run riot in 5...4...3...2...1...
On a serious note, given we have recently been discussing the possibility of Klopp sticking to his guns and leaving when his current contract expires, i have wondered whether some of his decisions not to spend may be in part to save money for a successor to spend.
 

Sweeting

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Nikola Jelavic scored a hatfull of goals in his first few games for Everton as well.
I was trying to think of who he reminded me of and I think you've nailed it. Jelavic/Zaki/Gray - scoring a bunch of goals at a newly promoted team but will quickly fade away.
 

Limiescouse

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I was trying to think of who he reminded me of and I think you've nailed it. Jelavic/Zaki/Gray - scoring a bunch of goals at a newly promoted team but will quickly fade away.
It's a great story and I wish him well. However, he is currently playing at a level far above anything he has ever done in a professional career that is well over a decade long. These stories happen occasionally in football and they are great when they do. But that doesnt mean that he's reliable performer at this current level.
 

Zoran

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Surprised to read he's 29.
Yeah, flopped at a few clubs. There's another Finish striker who is going from club to club, Pohjanpalo.

Jelavic was also pretty much nowhere until he got a strong season in Austria. Then Rangers (probably thought he was Dado Prso-like), then Everton. Had injuries earlier in his career. Was at the Ernst Happel in Vienna when we played a friendly in 2009, Rapid Vienna v Liverpool for their 115th anniversary. Jelavic got the winner.
 

Alright Now

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Yeah, flopped at a few clubs. There's another Finish striker who is going from club to club, Pohjanpalo.

Jelavic was also pretty much nowhere until he got a strong season in Austria. Then Rangers (probably thought he was Dado Prso-like), then Everton. Had injuries earlier in his career. Was at the Ernst Happel in Vienna when we played a friendly in 2009, Rapid Vienna v Liverpool for their 115th anniversary. Jelavic got the winner.
Thank you, sir.
 

jgw_geneseo

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It's a great story and I wish him well. However, he is currently playing at a level far above anything he has ever done in a professional career that is well over a decade long. These stories happen occasionally in football and they are great when they do. But that doesnt mean that he's reliable performer at this current level.
Didn't he score a whole hat full of goals last year in championship?

Maybe Kevin Phillips better example, came up full of confidence and got thirty, before he settled into useful prem player, but never threatened 30 again.
 

Claymenza

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On a serious note, given we have recently been discussing the possibility of Klopp sticking to his guns and leaving when his current contract expires, i have wondered whether some of his decisions not to spend may be in part to save money for a successor to spend.
Not likely for many reasons.

Klopp will most likely stay with us for more further than 3 seasons.
We have a strong squad. We didn't spend on an attacker because it would have destabilized the team.
Origi was given a new contract because there was no value in the market and he earned his place here

The young dutch lad and Adrian are the type of signings that the transfer committee made when we already had a successful team. Future and contingency planning. It's not blockbuster, but it's pragmatic.

If we have to sign another van dijk for a record fee 5 years from now, then we have to reconsider whether it's worth having an academy.