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Who would you buy?

redfanman

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Speaking of expiring contract - i get the feeling that Joel Matip doesn't want to extend his contract. 10 months left on his contract. Extention should have happend during his great run before the CL final.
He was only just given it. Not sure being given the contract sooner would have led him to signing it before now either as he may be waiting to see where he lies in the pecking order or what clubs might be interested in Janaury.
 

Chewbazza

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There are two possible reasons in my opinion;

1st I think he could want to be the established first choice partner for VvD ahead of Gomez when it's looking the other way round at the moment. With how often Gomez misses games and covers FB I expect Matip to realise he is getting plenty of playing time.
So Matip wants to be a starting 11 player, but not a sub/rotation option?

I'm sure i've heard that potential reason for a player being unhappy and wanting to leave before somewhere.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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So Matip wants to be a starting 11 player, but not a sub/rotation option?

I'm sure i've heard that potential reason for a player being unhappy and wanting to leave before somewhere.
I said it's a possibility for why he is reluctant to sign a deal. I also said; "... I expect Matip to realise he is getting plenty of playing time."
 

Limiescouse

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I said it's a possibility for why he is reluctant to sign a deal. I also said; "... I expect Matip to realise he is getting plenty of playing time."
Getting games is not sufficient for a player to feel valued and satisfied if those games are mostly second tier games. I dont think too many people would say Giroud's move to Chelsea has gone that well for him, yet he still played a full season of games last year. He just did so in in the Europa League and other cups, and as sub in the league (started only 7 games). That is not an easy sell for a player of the calber necessary to really make an impact.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Getting games is not sufficient for a player to feel valued and satisfied if those games are mostly second tier games. I dont think too many people would say Giroud's move to Chelsea has gone that well for him, yet he still played a full season of games last year. He just did so in in the Europa League and other cups, and as sub in the league (started only 7 games). That is not an easy sell for a player of the calber necessary to really make an impact.
I'll change it to "getting plenty of game time in games he wants to play in" then.

And Giroud didn't get a full seasons worth of games he started 21.
 

Limiescouse

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I'll change it to "getting plenty of game time in games he wants to play in" then.

And Giroud didn't get a full seasons worth of games he started 21.
He made nearly 50 appearances, yet was not and clearly still is not high in their plans. And if you are going to use the additional workload this season then almost all of those games are projected to be in second tier games so you cannot have it both ways.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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He made nearly 50 appearances, yet was not and clearly still is not high in their plans. And if you are going to use the additional workload this season then almost all of those games are projected to be in second tier games so you cannot have it both ways.
Theres a reason I refer to starts when looking at game time. An appearance may be 30 seconds to waste some stoppage time it doesn't say much. A start does. Giroud made 21 at least 4 other attacking players made 30 plus. And Chelsea played some strange formations. Sometimes only had 2 attacking players.
 

Limiescouse

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I dont get what point you think you are making. 21 starts is a decent number, yet the profile of those games were very much of the sort of a player that is not highly regarded. No player good enough to make a difference is going to be content with that so simply stating how many games we have to play this year is a misdirection. Yes, it means we need more than a first XI, but we already have that. And the players we already have at the club to play that back up role are seemingly better than the sort of player you can bring in with the promise of accumulating games in domestic cups.
 
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Zinedine Biscan

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Hot damn that's a big contract for the BL. Is that the biggest in the league, if you exclude Coutinho?
 

Zoran

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Clause, unknown? That will likely be his last Dortmund deal, or the highest wage he'll get while he's there. Might sign another one on similar terms that is just preparation for a transfer, with an included(?) or modified clause, like we see with plenty of transfers.
 

Craig_Johnston

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By the way, remember all that stuff about how we don't need to buy anyone because we've got all these talented youngsters coming through? They just got thrashed by Spurs kids 4-0 :-/
 

Iluvatar

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By the way, remember all that stuff about how we don't need to buy anyone because we've got all these talented youngsters coming through? They just got thrashed by Spurs kids 4-0 :-/
A team with 2 full internationals? Including Batshuayi who is a beast to be playing 18 year olds.
 

Iluvatar

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Back to who will we buy rather than berating our kids..

I think we are pushing for Havertz with a back up option of Aouar. And I like this thinking! (a no.8 / 10).

The evolution of the midfield is probably next on the list for Klopp, Milner/Lallana as immediate replacements (next summer), longer term; Henderson/Wijnaldum etc. So bringing in Havertz/Aouar to replace both Milner/Lallana looks like a realistic option.

My question is do we think we can get Sancho at the same time? Is that pushing us? Or is that why we held fire this summer?

It's not outside the realms of reality. You'd expect Origi/Shaqiri to move on - That would net us £40mil or so.

So replacing 4 players and bringing in 2 top quality players...

Imagine this next season;

Alisson (26)

A-Arnold (20) -- Gomez (22) -- Van Dijk (28) -- Robertson (25)

Fabinho (25)

Havertz (20) -- Keita (24)

Salah (27) -- Firmino (27) -- Mane (27)
Defense rotation options
Larouci (17)
Hoever (18)
Van Der Berg (17)

Midfield rotation options
Henderson (29)
Wijnaldum (28)
Oxlade (26)

Frontline rotation options
Sancho (19)
Brewster (19)
Elliot (16)

See the succession planning...? All the ages seem to mirror up with peak and youngsters coming through to pick up once they hit 30/31 etc.
 
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Craig_Johnston

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I'm not berating the kids, I'm just pointing out that they aren't at the level some of us believed. I'm criticising the management, if anyone, for over optimism.
 

GermanRed

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@Iluvatar Havertz and Sancho in one window? Don't be so greedy :-)

Havertz can happen but he will cost around €100m and we need to make some room in our midfield.
Milner + Lallana out. Havertz + Grujic in. Loan out Curtis Jones.

Sancho is a bit difficult. Would make sense as a Salah replacement but not as an additional attacker. Just signed a new contract. Kid is on ₤190k a week. Salah is the only Liverpool player who earns more at the moment if i'm not mistaken.
 
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Zinedine Biscan

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I'm not berating the kids, I'm just pointing out that they aren't at the level some of us believed. I'm criticising the management, if anyone, for over optimism.
I mean, Hoever for one has already been given a senior appearance and looked very good. There's a difference between dropping one promising kid into an otherwise settled and senior team and playing a whole team of them against an older team featuring some senior internationals.

No, I don't think any of them are likely at the level of, say, an 18-year-old Owen who can come in and stake his claim from the off, but equally if we did need to call on one of them to provide some depth in the odd game at some point, I think they'd be fine.
 

rupzzz

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Clause, unknown? That will likely be his last Dortmund deal, or the highest wage he'll get while he's there. Might sign another one on similar terms that is just preparation for a transfer, with an included(?) or modified clause, like we see with plenty of transfers.
Yep - I see it as Dortmund securing his value now. Problem might be that at such a high wage now, he comes in for a bigger wage in a season or two, disrupting squad harmony - something the Manchester clubs, PSG, and Real/Barca don't give two shits about, so probably puts them ahead of us.

On youth teams being battered - that's never a barometer of where the players are, especially three games in. Last years youth teams look vastly different to this years, with players at new levels (inc up to senior), some players off on loan/sold, and everyone now having to adjust to their new team mates etc. Unless you follow Chelsea/Spurs youth team set ups, it's not really worth getting worried about a few results.
 



redfanman

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SithBaare

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Having 11 of them playing together is very different from putting one of them into the first team.
Agreed totally. Having one or two youngsters being shepherded by the senior guys has a lot of merit.

Would Gomez or Trent Alexander Arnold be the same players they are right now if it weren't for the likes of vvd/matip/Henderson/milner/fabinho ready to back them up in open play mopping their mistakes. Youngsters will make mistakes , it's a given. But the only way they are gonna learn from the mistakes is if they are playing matches.