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Who would you buy?

Red over the water

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Koulibaly is an excellent defender. Better than Matip, not as good as Van Dijk. If we had the chance to sign him we should not do it, as the improvement would not be worth the outlay.

In a team without Van Dijk, a player like Koulibaly would be well worth having, as you could build a defense around him. (I'm not sure if I'd want Koulibaly over Gomez, mind).

Since we have Van Dijk we are sorted. The options we have to go alongside are very good too. Gomez was brilliant before he got injured. I think he will have a big career as a central defender when he can get back in again. Matip was a revelation last season when he came in for Gomez, and he has done well this season so far too. Hoever is very highly rated and looks like he has got the lot too, though time is very much on his side. And Sepp VDB is highly rated for a youngster too, though he needs to beef up a bit.

Lovren fits in as fourth choice. He has an occasional brain fart moment, but he's a good player when fit.

Koulibaly would be the one to hold it all together... sans Van Dijk. But he's not needed here.
 


Zoran

Fighting like beavers.
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Koulibaly is still quality, no doubt about that. But I was surprised that he was our alternative to Virgil however. Stylistically they do have some similarities, but I don't really see them as the exact type of CB.

There's Virgil... and then it's up to the other 3 to fight and earn game time. All 3 have their issues with either style, form or injuries. Matip and Gomez are playing like 25-30 games on average every season, so Lovren doesn't need to panic, he might be called up for action in no time. Gomez is also an option for full back, so if something happens to Trent, it immediately affects our CB situation. We had 53 games last season while going out immediately in both cups. I expect us to go to the last knockout stages in Europe again, so together with other two competitions we played or will be playing, there will be plenty of chances for all of them.

Gomez probably has the highest ceiling, but Matip has continued where he left off last season (and it's the best he's played for us, even if he did show quality initially when he joined, it seems to be like some fans forgot about that when there was this Lovren love in the air).

Last season we managed well. Gomez started off brilliantly, then we had Lovren coming in and the level didn't drop, then we covered ourselves with Fabinho for a short while, then Matip took over and did his thing.

The plus with Matip is that his international career is over for a while now. Might be another reason why we're willing to give him a new deal here. So for me it's about continuing to develop Gomez if he can finally stay fit, sell Lovren next summer when he'll have a year left and then see where we are. Current players and what's out on the market.
 

Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
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I didn't suggest he was "shite." I said he was inconsistent...which means that he was good at times, and not good at others. Not sure why that's controversial when you yourself are saying that he had "spells of being very good, and spells of being inconsistent."

And the fact that we were worried about him during his dispute with the Cameroon FA had as much to do with our lack of quality depth at CB as it did with our perception of Matip's quality. We were forced to start Lucas Leiva at CB at one point, IIRC.

And again, that has nothing to do with the original claim that he was the second best CB in world football.
How about on present form?

I mean, is Virgil Van Dijk not the best Centre Back in the world, because he wasn’t that good at Celtic or Southampton?

On his run from getting back in the team to the present, I’m struggling to think of a better Centre Back.
 

PeachesEnRegalia

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Honestly I did not.... but if you think I do, can't stop you for labeling me whatever you want. I was just using it as an example of fans overhyping someone at times, which does not mean I don't like the player or whoever they hyped. But hey, you seemed to like to find ways to put all sorts of accusation on me. Ever since we've interacted years back.
Gr8 b8, m8. I wud r8 it 8/8.
 

redbj

hurry up, July 1st, let's get the show on the road
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We are "bitching" about one person's derisory, pathological need to be contrarian at every possible opportunity. It's like he's summoned by dark magic whenever the word E*wards appears in a post.
Poor innocent Eddie.

Quite why you guys always pick on him I’ll never know.
 



JibJab

Mo Mane Mo' Problems
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How about on present form?

I mean, is Virgil Van Dijk not the best Centre Back in the world, because he wasn’t that good at Celtic or Southampton?

On his run from getting back in the team to the present, I’m struggling to think of a better Centre Back.
He's absolutely playing very well...but I have to taken his performance in context when evaluating his quality versus other defenders. Joel Matip has the protection of the best defender in world football to clean up his mistakes, take critical defensive assignments, and organize the defense entirely. We have seen Joel Matip prior to Van Dijk's arrival. He wasn't good enough to take on that responsibility, which is why Klopp and Edwards made recruiting a world class central defender a priority heading into the 2017 summer window. Virgil van Dijk was excellent at Southampton and had all of the tools to be great, which is why he was their #1 choice.

But the difference between considering the symbiotic relationship between VVD and Matip right now is that Virgil has excelled consistently for 18 months no matter who he's paired with or which opponent he's playing. He rarely, if ever, makes mistakes. He spent 18 months without a single dribble past him. He was a colossus on set pieces when attacking and defending.

You remove Virgil from this defense, and the center buckles. Matip can't fill his shoes.

You remove Matip, and we still thrive with Gomez or Lovren back there because Virg protects them.

That's the difference between being good and being great. And that's, in part, why I would love to recruit a monster like Koulibaly to Liverpool so that they can not only pair together as this impenetrable wall in front of goal, but also to provide protection in case one of them gets hurt.
 

Mascot88

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He's absolutely playing very well...but I have to taken his performance in context when evaluating his quality versus other defenders. Joel Matip has the protection of the best defender in world football to clean up his mistakes, take critical defensive assignments, and organize the defense entirely.
What mistakes?

As far as I can see Matip has done plenty of mopping up himself.

We have seen Joel Matip prior to Van Dijk's arrival. He wasn't good enough to take on that responsibility, which is why Klopp and Edwards made recruiting a world class central defender a priority heading into the 2017 summer window. Virgil van Dijk was excellent at Southampton and had all of the tools to be great, which is why he was their #1 choice.

But the difference between considering the symbiotic relationship between VVD and Matip right now is that Virgil has excelled consistently for 18 months no matter who he's paired with or which opponent he's playing. He rarely, if ever, makes mistakes. He spent 18 months without a single dribble past him. He was a colossus on set pieces when attacking and defending.

You remove Virgil from this defense, and the center buckles. Matip can't fill his shoes.

You remove Matip, and we still thrive with Gomez or Lovren back there because Virg protects them.

That's the difference between being good and being great. And that's, in part, why I would love to recruit a monster like Koulibaly to Liverpool so that they can not only pair together as this impenetrable wall in front of goal, but also to provide protection in case one of them gets hurt.
Thoughts on Koulibaly.

1. He will realistically be 29 before a transfer can be made.

2. We’d be looking at a Virgil-esque fee.

3. There are areas of greater need in the squad.

4. We have four solid senior CBs and two very highly rated youngsters.

For these reasons I think there is no chance of signing Koulibaly, and it would be a poor use of money to do so.

If we are planning to spend big cash it will be further up the pitch.
 

JibJab

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What mistakes?

As far as I can see Matip has done plenty of mopping up himself.
He's had a couple runs slip past him this season from my recollection, but he's been good. Again, not sure why you're arguing with me about Matip. We're of a similar frame of mind on him from what I can tell. My only contention was to reject the notion that he could be as good without Virgil to protect him.

Thoughts on Koulibaly.

1. He will realistically be 29 before a transfer can be made.

2. We’d be looking at a Virgil-esque fee.

3. There are areas of greater need in the squad.

4. We have four solid senior CBs and two very highly rated youngsters.

For these reasons I think there is no chance of signing Koulibaly, and it would be a poor use of money to do so.

If we are planning to spend big cash it will be further up the pitch.
I agree with you that we're unlikely to sign Koulibaly for those reasons. But my argument in support of Koulibaly has as much to do with his defensive prowess as it has to do with the safety net he provides. I think our defense takes a massive, and potentially fatal hit if Virgil gets hurt. He's our only indispensable player. Adding Koulibaly would give us cover there.

But again, I agree that we could spend that money more effectively elsewhere.
 

SithBaare

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I think our defense takes a massive, and potentially fatal hit if Virgil gets hurt. He's our only indispensable player. Adding Koulibaly would give us cover there.
I think you are forgetting that the players who have improved while playing with Virgil won't suddenly lose their skillset. Yes vvd injury will be a huge blow , but I'd back matip / Gomez to be improved enough to see through most opposition. Not sure I'd back lovren though.

Koulibaly with all his strengths will be Overkill and I don't see Liverpool moving for someone who's going to be 30 soon.

Terrific player though but Liverpool's way forward for the center defense right now is to grow them at home. Getting vvd with all his other leadership attributes was part of the reason. He sets the benchmark that others aspire to.
 



JibJab

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I think you are forgetting that the players who have improved while playing with Virgil won't suddenly lose their skillset. Yes vvd injury will be a huge blow , but I'd back matip / Gomez to be improved enough to see through most opposition. Not sure I'd back lovren though.
It's admittedly hard to say because we have not seen much of them without Virgil since he arrived here - I think the limited spells haven't been promising, but too much a small sample size to derive any meaningful conclusions. So it's hard to ascertain how much they've improved since Virgil came on board versus how much of their performance is dependent on Virgil's protection.

So much of our attack is dependent on having so much trust in Virgil's quality that we can freely throw our fullbacks forward with confidence that Virgil would be able to stifle an attempt at a quick counterattack. If Big Virg gets hurt, can you honestly say that you'd be secure knowing that it's Joel Matip sitting back there instead? I would not feel that way. But if its Kalidou Koulibaly? I'm still resting easy.
 

Persona

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I think you are forgetting that the players who have improved while playing with Virgil won't suddenly lose their skillset. Yes vvd injury will be a huge blow , but I'd back matip / Gomez to be improved enough to see through most opposition. Not sure I'd back lovren though.

Koulibaly with all his strengths will be Overkill and I don't see Liverpool moving for someone who's going to be 30 soon.

Terrific player though but Liverpool's way forward for the center defense right now is to grow them at home. Getting vvd with all his other leadership attributes was part of the reason. He sets the benchmark that others aspire to.
I agree with that on Koulibaly, I feel as though if we were to sign him it should have been a few windows ago. Now I'm not sure it makes sense given it's going to cost virtually the same amount(possible more) for less years with the player at their top form.
 

Richard88

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There is something about Adama Traore. A bit uneaven, but I would love seeing him as a winger under Klopp.
He's the epitome of a one-dimensional and selfish player. All he does is dribble, albeit at a very high level, but he provides very little output in terms of goals or assists, and isn't involved interlinking with teammates much at all. Nor is he very aware or structured off the ball. Needless to say, he's one of the last players I'd imagine Klopp would have an interest in - and that's before considering his character which isn't one Klopp would fancy either.
 

KillerBeeLFC

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There is something about Adama Traore. A bit uneaven, but I would love seeing him as a winger under Klopp.
When he broke through as a youngster he looked like he could be a star. He has always been an insanely good dribbler but he does nothing once he gets into dangerous positions. Hasn't progressed at all since he broke through at Barca. He's only 23 so it might just click at one point. If he adds end product he'd be some player. Doubt it'll happen though
 



Drubas

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He's the epitome of a one-dimensional and selfish player. All he does is dribble, albeit at a very high level, but he provides very little output in terms of goals or assists, and isn't involved interlinking with teammates much at all. Nor is he very aware or structured off the ball. Needless to say, he's one of the last players I'd imagine Klopp would have an interest in - and that's before considering his character which isn't one Klopp would fancy either.
I see clear improvement this year. He has set up a few goals this season. He's by no means been a one trick pony, and unlike the likes of Ibe he does have the vision - if he just choose to be less selfish. I agree on the selfish part, and he dribbles too much, but (unless he's a real prick) that can be worked on.

I remember people saying the same thing about Mane.
 

Richard88

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I see clear improvement this year. He has set up a few goals this season. He's by no means been a one trick pony, and unlike the likes of Ibe he does have the vision - if he just choose to be less selfish. I agree on the selfish part, and he dribbles too much, but (unless he's a real prick) that can be worked on.

I remember people saying the same thing about Mane.
The club is in a really healthy position now, so we don't need to be gambling on any more character projects like Ballotelli anymore.
 

redfanman

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I see clear improvement this year. He has set up a few goals this season. He's by no means been a one trick pony, and unlike the likes of Ibe he does have the vision - if he just choose to be less selfish. I agree on the selfish part, and he dribbles too much, but (unless he's a real prick) that can be worked on.

I remember people saying the same thing about Mane.
But Mane's output was always much better than Traore's has ever been.
 

Richard88

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Everyone is watching Pukki, but Emi Buendia from Norwich is 100% Klopp player. Can play everywhere, very agile, has some crazy skills, eye for a pass and always give his maximum. This amazing little argentinian is only 22 years of age. His price will only go up this year.

MOTD highlighted his performance against City as well. Looks really tidy and has rare two-footedness as well. 4 assists in 5 PL games so far.

He does look like a Klopp player, but won't come cheap though given that he just extended his contract this 2 months ago (until 2024).

I still think Auoar and Havertz would be the top 2 choices to replace Milner/Lallana, but always good to see some other decent options.
 



okocha10

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MOTD highlighted his performance against City as well. Looks really tidy and has rare two-footedness as well. 4 assists in 5 PL games so far.

He does look like a Klopp player, but won't come cheap though given that he just extended his contract this 2 months ago (until 2024).

I still think Auoar and Havertz would be the top 2 choices to replace Milner/Lallana, but always good to see some other decent options.
His big advantage to other players you mentioned is that he played championship football last year. For me the most competitive league, very hard and tough for newcomers, which makes his life much more easier in the PL. Still can't believe they got him for just 2,5 mill euros. Of course his price is now going up.
 

Zoran

Fighting like beavers.
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Buendia. Good day? :)

We'll see how he does, is his limit down the line that of a Manuel Lanzini par example, or capable of more than that. The amazing thing about Norwich's start to the season is that they did it with a number of players missing, especially on Saturday. A few of them having their debuts, playing out of position, etc.
 

Richard88

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His big advantage to other players you mentioned is that he played championship football last year. For me the most competitive league, very hard and tough for newcomers, which makes his life much more easier in the PL. Still can't believe they got him for just 2,5 mill euros. Of course his price is now going up.
Hmm, I don't think playing Championship is that big of an advantage, other than the fact that he's already settled in the country. Aouar and Havertz have played several seasons in top 5 eagues too, and also CL, which could conversely give them an advantage as well.

Another minor factor to consider is that Buendia has spanish citizenship so there would be none of the work permit issues we've had with other players in the past (eg. Leto, Mark Gonzalez, Allan, etc).
 

Richard88

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Buendia. Good day? :)

We'll see how he does, is his limit down the line that of a Manuel Lanzini par example, or capable of more than that. The amazing thing about Norwich's start to the season is that they did it with a number of players missing, especially on Saturday. A few of them having their debuts, playing out of position, etc.
Just goes to show the importance of good coaching and scouting/recruitment. When players have been recruited for specific roles and know their roles well the team can still do well even with some rotation.

Speaking of which, Norwich's sporting director Stuart Webber and their manager Farke both look destined for a bigger club. Perhaps Farke will end up at Spurs when Pocchetino leaves, or maybe as Klopp's successor if he decides to take a break from football in 2022. Arsenal or United could certainly do worse than hiring that pair to run the football side of things as well.
 

Red over the water

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Farke is doing well but there’s still a gap for me before he can be talked about in connection with us. He clearly has ideas about the game and is a good coach, but let’s see more. At present he has just got to the Prem and is in the lower reaches. If he keeps progressing there would probably be another club between Norwich and us, such is our level these days. One to watch though, definitely.

(I’m watching Julian Nagelsmann to see how his career trajectory unfolds. Young, now at his second biggish job already).
 



Chewbazza

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Hmm, I don't think playing Championship is that big of an advantage, other than the fact that he's already settled in the country. Aouar and Havertz have played several seasons in top 5 eagues too, and also CL, which could conversely give them an advantage as well.

Another minor factor to consider is that Buendia has spanish citizenship so there would be none of the work permit issues we've had with other players in the past (eg. Leto, Mark Gonzalez, Allan, etc).
Yeah, seen plenty of players tearing it up in the Championship but fail to make the step up to the highest level.

Early days for Norwich. I'd prefer to give them a few months before judging their players; Aouar and Havertz though are class and i'd have either or both.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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I wonder if we're taking a look at Alfie Haaland's son, who's already hit 17 goals (not a typo) in 9 games this season for Salzburg, and during the summer hit 9 goals in one Norway U20s game. As well as being huge he's apparently quick, skillful and hard-working. Scored a hat-trick on his CL debut last night, the first player to do so since Rooney.


I guess we'll get a closer look at him when we play Salzburg.
 
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Zoran

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Sounds like a future Leipzig signing (minus the skills) once Werner leaves.

:LOL: