• Hey Guest!
    Enjoy the This Is Anfield Forums but want to remove the adverts? Now you can do so by clicking here.
    Thanks for your support!

Who would you buy?

Mascot88

Yours for £1m. Need to make room for Dean Saunders
Admin
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
22,059
With our success, our frugal spending in past years, our smart business savvy increasing our revenue, very little need to bring many players in and the huge Nike deal I do struggle to see other peoples viewpoints when they think our spending resources are limited.
I don’t think it’s that resources are limited (within reason) - I think if Klopp felt to need to spend £200m this summer he could. It’s more ways of working and ethos, and how Klopp approaches transfers (although it’s not a reasonable expectation that prize money is available to reinvested in the squad - from what I understand the players are heavily incentivised, and the biggest chunk of prize money ends up as player bonuses).

I think we have to be ready for the club to do nothing this summer. Last year it wasn’t even a month since we’d won the European Cup and fans were getting impatient for a big signing - but look where we are now.

Klopp could look at the squad, get everyone still to commit - like Lallana, Wijnaldum, Lovren etc - tied down to new deals and go again. It might be that Klopp thinks players like Elliot, Williams, Jones, Larouci and Hoever are ready (I’d agree on the first three).

In that situation, I don’t think I’d be bothered. If this squad delivers its potential this year, then we’re still in a great position.

Personally, I would still be looking to add some full back cover, and consolidate Matip, Lovren, Lallana and Shaqiri into a reliably fit defender and midfielder. But unless someone is leaving, I can’t really look beyond that.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
11,671
I don’t think it’s that resources are limited (within reason) - I think if Klopp felt to need to spend £200m this summer he could. It’s more ways of working and ethos, and how Klopp approaches transfers (although it’s not a reasonable expectation that prize money is available to reinvested in the squad - from what I understand the players are heavily incentivised, and the biggest chunk of prize money ends up as player bonuses).

I think we have to be ready for the club to do nothing this summer. Last year it wasn’t even a month since we’d won the European Cup and fans were getting impatient for a big signing - but look where we are now.

Klopp could look at the squad, get everyone still to commit - like Lallana, Wijnaldum, Lovren etc - tied down to new deals and go again. It might be that Klopp thinks players like Elliot, Williams, Jones, Larouci and Hoever are ready (I’d agree on the first three).

In that situation, I don’t think I’d be bothered. If this squad delivers its potential this year, then we’re still in a great position.

Personally, I would still be looking to add some full back cover, and consolidate Matip, Lovren, Lallana and Shaqiri into a reliably fit defender and midfielder. But unless someone is leaving, I can’t really look beyond that.
Yeah Klopp may spend nothing, even if he wants to if he can't land the player/players he wants he sticks with what he has. Just think there is potential there to spend whatever we could realistically want to. If the RIGHT players are available. Think there will be departures though. There will always be departures. For a start I think Shaqiri and Lallana are practically half way out the door with no intention of fighting against that process.
 

RedSeven

On the one road
Joined
Aug 20, 2010
Messages
5,796
Yeah Klopp may spend nothing, even if he wants to if he can't land the player/players he wants he sticks with what he has. Just think there is potential there to spend whatever we could realistically want to. If the RIGHT players are available. Think there will be departures though. There will always be departures. For a start I think Shaqiri and Lallana are practically half way out the door with no intention of fighting against that process.
I think Jones and Minamino take both those spots once the other 2 have left.We'll only buy in other areas for the same reason,for example Lovren or Wijnaldum leave although not too sure at LB where I think we could do with cover beyond Milner, maybe Larouci might be tried out a little more to see if he fits.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
11,671
I think Jones and Minamino take both those spots once the other 2 have left.We'll only buy in other areas for the same reason,for example Lovren or Wijnaldum leave although not too sure at LB where I think we could do with cover beyond Milner, maybe Larouci might be tried out a little more to see if he fits.
Jones was already in the squad and Minamino has taken the spot Brewster was in before his loan. The pecking order might change but the numbers are already accounted for.
 

Richard88

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2017
Messages
377
Really enjoying the discussion in the last dozen or so posts, thanks.

To weigh in, I don't think it's necessarily needed in the immediate future for our squad to add big players in the short term. However, I agree with other posters sentiments that Klopp and Edwards will be trying to set up the team well for the future, and adding to the squad while in a position of strength rather than weakness. I imagine that it makes Edwards' job in negotiation that much easier when we don't NEED a player in a certain position, as compared to when we signed Van Dijk and Allison for example, when the entire world and their dog knew that we were desperate for a big signing in both of those areas.

Waiting until players are past their peak years before adding someone is quite risky. I think Klopp and Edwards will be more likely to want to add players at least a year ahead of when they expect a replacement to actually be needed, as that will ensure that Klopp has time to work with a player before the player being replaced actually leaves. In the unlikely eventuality that a signing doesn't work out there's also still time to rectify the situation, rather than being overly reliant on that new player right from the start.

Based on the rumours and news, in would not surprise me if the following moves were made this summer:

- Lovren sold, with 12 months on his contract. Replaced by young English CB (eg. Ben White).
- No LB signed, as Milner will continue to be the backup there.
- If Wijnaldum leaves, a top young CM is signed - i.e. one of Aouar or Havertz.
- Shaqiri leaves for more gametime.
- Fringe squad players Grujic and Wilson are sold to finance other signings.
- Brewster gets a season-long loan to a bottom half PL club.
- Another quality winger is signed, most likely Sancho.

That would see us add 3 players in the summer for the first team, which seems like a reasonable amount to expect compared to previous seasons under Klopp.

-------------------- Alisson -----------------------
-------------------- Adrian ------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------
Trent ------ Gomez --- Van Dijk ---- Robertson
Neco ------ White ----- Matip ----------- Milner
----------------------------------------------------
--------------------- Fabinho ---------------------
------------------- Henderson --------------------
-----------------------------------------------------
-------- Keita ------ Wijnaldum/Havertz/Aouar -
--------- Ox ----------------- Jones --------------
-----------------------------------------------------
Salah ------------ Firmino ----------------- Mané
Sancho -------- Minamino ----------------- Origi
Elliott
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
11,671
Think I'm expecting more like;

GK; Alisson, Adrian, Kelleher/Grabara (one on loan).

CB; VvD, Gomez, Matip, Lovren/cheap or free Klavan style purchase, Hoever, SvDB.

FB; Alexander-Arnold, Robertson, Milner, Williams, Larouci, Hoever.

CM; Henderson, Fabinho, Wijnaldum, Ox, Keita, Jones, Milner, further academy options.

Wings; Salah, Mane, A real top end signing, Elliot, Minamino, Origi, Ox.

CF; Firmino, Minamino, Origi, Mane, Salah.

Literally one signing if Lovren stays but a fair few out the door. Leaves loads of room for Elliot, Jones, Williams and Hoever and that too.
 

basil1492

TIA Squad Member
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
5,629
Hmmm interesting idea. Just using a real casual look at Transfermarkt for an idea on our spending;

2017/18 season a minus £19 million net spend.
2018/19 season a £127 million net spend.
2019/20 season so far a minus £20 million net spend.
2020/21 season another £120/130 million net spend possible?

With possible departures like Lovren, Grujic, Wijnaldum, Shaqiri, Wilson and Origi (not that I expect them all to leave) we could easily add over £100 million to that figure.

With our success, our frugal spending in past years, our smart business savvy increasing our revenue, very little need to bring many players in and the huge Nike deal I do struggle to see other peoples viewpoints when they think our spending resources are limited.
Id be happy with the spending big every other year but im hoping we dont lose some of those players. In fact id happily keep all of them as they all have a place in our squad though i havent seen much of Grujic and think we will move on Wilson.

It probably is.
Just checked and you were right, 3 years. No idea where i got 5 years from. Btw the link i got this from was where we were being investigated from the 2011-2014 seasons because of losses posted both in 2011-12 and 12-13. I really think with our extra income from prize money etc though that we'll never worry about ffp again, Klopp just doesnt waste any money
 

RedSeven

On the one road
Joined
Aug 20, 2010
Messages
5,796
Jones was already in the squad and Minamino has taken the spot Brewster was in before his loan. The pecking order might change but the numbers are already accounted for.
Long story short, I don't see us buying much this summer.

The bolded is what was meant, shaq and lallana positions in the squad, which is ahead of Jones and brewster/minamino will be allotted to the latter next season. We may see others from the youths come into the squad but further down the pecking order although if brewster, Wilson or grujic come back they may fill slots.
 

Spitfire

Resident Realist
Joined
Mar 6, 2006
Messages
2,308
As good as that front 3 are next season they will all be 28/29 respectively. They have a shelf life unfortunately - so I think an addition to add competition and potentially freshen it up would be a good thing.

As others have noted to do it now while they are still in their prime is better than waiting until it is too late.
I'd also be worried medium term about the thought of having to replace more than one of them in a season.........one big signing this year another next etc would be much more palatable.

As for further back it really depends on Klopp and how he sees his depth.....Grujic/Wilson etc are the real conundrums.......
 

Richard88

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2017
Messages
377
As good as that front 3 are next season they will all be 28/29 respectively. They have a shelf life unfortunately - so I think an addition to add competition and potentially freshen it up would be a good thing.

As others have noted to do it now while they are still in their prime is better than waiting until it is too late.
I'd also be worried medium term about the thought of having to replace more than one of them in a season.........one big signing this year another next etc would be much more palatable.

As for further back it really depends on Klopp and how he sees his depth.....Grujic/Wilson etc are the real conundrums.......
That's a very good point. All of the front 3 are soon in their 30's, so it makes sense to stagger the replacement signings over a couple of seasons, rather than replacing them all at once. That ensures that there's a gradual transition off the pitch, and also means that we are able to bring players in at reasonable prices when they are available, rather than having to force big signings out of desperation because of poor succession planning.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jem

ILLOK

In the Danger Zone.
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
16,067
I agree with the general principle of not wanting to replace those lads all at once but our front 3 are only 27, 27 and 28. There's absolutely no rush whatsoever to get them replaced due to age, you only have to look around Europe's top clubs or top goalscorers to see why.

Messi
Suarez
Benzema
Bale
Costa
Cavani
Ronaldo
Higuain
Reus
Lewadowski
Aguero
Vardy
Aubemeyang
Mertens
Dzeko
etc etc

All of those are over 30. Granted, a few aren't as good as they used to be, but plenty of them are still banging in the goals. We've built a great side, no need to think about dismantling it just yet. The ages of our front 3 give us 4 or 5 years to give us opportunity to find great deals in the market as well as seeing how the players already on our books develop. It's a perfect situation to be in.
 

Jah_Pool

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 6, 2014
Messages
588
Trying to replace those three in the next 18 months is massive overkill. Gini, Milner and Henderson are our three fittest players. Gini and Henderson will easily be playing at our level in 2022.
We have to plan for the future while we're on top, AF kept the scum on top by knowing when to move players on. From what I've read, Milner wants a 2 year contract at 33. Would that make sound business sense? I don't know. For the player, yes, for the club, No, I would say. Gini from what I've read wants a nice lucrative contract which may be his last. Both Gini and Hugo are going to be aging at the same time, which one are we looking to keep into their thirties in a midfield that should be the engine of your team? Anyways those are future thoughts for another time.
 

nobluff

Official TIA Match Thread Starter
Joined
Oct 26, 2007
Messages
1,710
Havertz will be the only big signing for us, and the more I say it, the more likely it's going to happen (isn't that how it works?). I have always wanted a taller, quicker, stronger, and slightly more skillful and versatile version of David Silva in our squad.

Any other signings will be solid squad players. I dont think Wilson will get a chance, just too much of a gap between him and current squad players. I think Grujic has a very, very good chance of staying, definitely more than Wilson. I think we will end of with a net spend of about 60m.
 

Iluvatar

Allez (x6)
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2015
Messages
8,092
Havertz will be the only big signing for us, and the more I say it, the more likely it's going to happen (isn't that how it works?). I have always wanted a taller, quicker, stronger, and slightly more skillful and versatile version of David Silva in our squad.

Any other signings will be solid squad players. I dont think Wilson will get a chance, just too much of a gap between him and current squad players. I think Grujic has a very, very good chance of staying, definitely more than Wilson. I think we will end of with a net spend of about 60m.
I tend to agree, I do wonder if we got quoted a silly price for Sancho, thought no thanks and will go for Minamino (competition for up front) and Havertz (Lallana/Milner replacement in midfield).

One of the Liverpool journo’s said in summer gone that we were looking at a player similar - Aouar I think it was.

Havertz
Ben White (or another young central defender)
Lewis or Aarons (or another young left back).

Would be an excellent summer.

Strange one for here, but does anyone know what the impact of Brexit will be? Mainly about do we need to sign British (or more than typical).
 

Richard88

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2017
Messages
377
I agree with the general principle of not wanting to replace those lads all at once but our front 3 are only 27, 27 and 28. There's absolutely no rush whatsoever to get them replaced due to age, you only have to look around Europe's top clubs or top goalscorers to see why.

Messi
Suarez
Benzema
Bale
Costa
Cavani
Ronaldo
Higuain
Reus
Lewadowski
Aguero
Vardy
Aubemeyang
Mertens
Dzeko
etc etc

All of those are over 30. Granted, a few aren't as good as they used to be, but plenty of them are still banging in the goals. We've built a great side, no need to think about dismantling it just yet. The ages of our front 3 give us 4 or 5 years to give us opportunity to find great deals in the market as well as seeing how the players already on our books develop. It's a perfect situation to be in.
You're right that we do have around 4 years to find replacements before the front 3 start to decline. That said, it's important to remember that top players aren't available every summer, certainly not those in the age bracket and quality of Sancho. The last time that happened was when Leroy Sané was available in 2016 (Dembele and João Felix to lesser extents in 2017 and 2019 respectively). Can we pass up he opportunity to sign a homegrown player like Sancho in the hope that we can find as good a player in the 2-3 years after that?
 

ILLOK

In the Danger Zone.
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
16,067
Can we pass up he opportunity to sign a homegrown player like Sancho in the hope that we can find as good a player in the 2-3 years after that?
Our success is not contingent on finding the next supposed 'generational' talent, as our current squad indicates.

In the next 2-3 years there will be ample opportunity to sign extremely good footballers, it's not Sancho or bust.
 

Richard88

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2017
Messages
377
Our success is not contingent on finding the next supposed 'generational' talent, as our current squad indicates.

In the next 2-3 years there will be ample opportunity to sign extremely good footballers, it's not Sancho or bust.
Of course it's not Sancho or bust. And like you say the team is not dependent on one player like in the Suarez days.

I guess it comes down to how much Klopp and Edwards will value him relative to alternatives. Time will tell.
 

Sweeting

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
9,129
You're right that we do have around 4 years to find replacements before the front 3 start to decline. That said, it's important to remember that top players aren't available every summer, certainly not those in the age bracket and quality of Sancho. The last time that happened was when Leroy Sané was available in 2016 (Dembele and João Felix to lesser extents in 2017 and 2019 respectively). Can we pass up he opportunity to sign a homegrown player like Sancho in the hope that we can find as good a player in the 2-3 years after that?
May sound odd but I actually think Sancho is a little younger than what the club/Klopp would consider "ideal". Most of our signings seem to be in the 23-27 age bracket (Minimino, Alisson, Keita, Fabinho, Shaqiri, Salah, Mane, Firmino, van Dijk, Chamberlain, Robertson etc.) and I think there are legitimate reasons for that...

1. By this time in their career they will have taken some knocks and, hopefully, proven they can bounce back which a teenager who had flown through a youth academy and into first team football with relative ease might not have had.

2. As the player is a little older there is a perception that they are not "prospects" anymore and that (in the bizarre and illogical transfer market we have now) reduces their cost instead of increases it.

3. The core of the squad, and all the best players, are roughly the same age. There are not significant generational differences between a 25 year old and a 29 year old but there will be with a 29 year old and a 19 year old. Not that teenagers aren't welcome in the dressing room, clearly we use them in our squad, but we don't seem to want to rely on extremely young players to be key cogs.

None of that is to say that we wouldn't or shouldn't pursue a player like Sancho but I think our M.O. is more about signing the guys who took a few knocks at 18/19 - maybe had a transfer that didn't work, or were released by a club - than it is to sign the guys who have had it easy based on their natural talent.

I think of Paul Pogba. Strolled through United's academy (there is nonsense about Morrison being the better player at that age, no he wasn't), went to Juve with United practically begging him to stay. Strolled around Juve's midfield and was the most talented player on the pitch. Went back to Man Utd as the biggest football celebrity in the world and now can't seem to summon up the appetite to play at all, and when he does he doesn't have any of the identity that took him there, he's bored and lost and disinterested. For all his talent he wasn't really mentally tested until he was in his mid 20s and all of a sudden he couldn't hack it. His mind has quit on him.

By contrast the same summer Pogba returned to Man Utd, Liverpool signed Gini Wijnaldum for less than 1/4th of the price. Wijnaldum came to us after just being relegated with Newcastle and a section of supporters putting blame on him for "downing tools". He has worked his arse off everyday he has been here and developed into one of the best all around midfielders in Europe.

I think that is our model. So, the "replacements" for our big players are probably already being scouted but they are likely not shining right now. They are more likely to be 18 years old and barely getting a game for their club in Switzerland then they are to be the Sancho/Felix wonderkid type.
 
Last edited:

Zinedine Biscan

Spreading the word of St Igor
Moderator
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
23,743
May sound odd but I actually think Sancho is a little younger than what the club/Klopp would consider "ideal". Most of our signings seem to be in the 23-27 age bracket (Minimino, Alisson, Keita, Fabinho, Shaqiri, Salah, Mane, Firmino, van Dijk, Chamberlain, Robertson etc.) and I think there are legitimate reasons for that...

1. By this time in their career they will have taken some knocks and, hopefully, proven they can bounce back which a teenager who had flown through a youth academy and into first team football with relative ease might not have had.

2. As the player is a little older there is a perception that they are not "prospects" anymore and that (in the bizarre and illogical transfer market we have now) reduces their cost instead of increases it.

3. The core of the squad, and all the best players, are roughly the same age. There are not significant generational differences between a 25 year old and a 29 year old but there will be with a 29 year old and a 19 year old. Not that teenagers aren't welcome in the dressing room, clearly we use them in our squad, but we don't seem to want to rely on extremely young players to be key cogs.

None of that is to say that we wouldn't or shouldn't pursue a player like Sancho but I think our M.O. is more about signing the guys who took a few knocks at 18/19 - maybe had a transfer that didn't work, or were released by a club - than it is to sign the guys who have had it easy based on their natural talent.

I think of Paul Pogba. Strolled through United's academy (there is nonsense about Morrison being the better player at that age, no he wasn't), went to Juve with United practically begging him to stay. Strolled around Juve's midfield and was the most talented player on the pitch. Went back to Man Utd as the biggest football celebrity in the world and now can't seem to summon up the appetite to play at all, and when he does he doesn't have any of the identity that took him there, he's bored and lost and disinterested. For all his talent he wasn't really mentally tested until he was in his mid 20s and all of a sudden he couldn't hack it. His mind has quit on him.

By contrast the same summer Pogba returned to Man Utd, Liverpool signed Gini Wijnaldum for less than 1/4th of the price. Wijnaldum came to us after just being relegated with Newcastle and a section of supporters putting blame on him for "downing tools". He has worked his arse off everyday he has been here and developed into one of the best all around midfielders in Europe.

I think that is our model. So, the "replacements" for our big players are probably already being scouted but they are likely not shining right now. They are more likely to be 18 years old and barely getting a game for their club in Switzerland then they are to be the Sancho/Felix wonderkid type.
/mic drop.

Damn, son.
 

bazza66

TIA Oldie, still in the Youth Team though
Ad-free Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2003
Messages
1,051
Strange one for here, but does anyone know what the impact of Brexit will be? Mainly about do we need to sign British (or more than typical).
Yes, we will be taking back control with our oven ready deal.

Sorry, don't know what came over me.

I don't think anyone really knows at the moment. Currently players from within the European Economic Area can sign to an English club without needing a work permit, but players from outside the EEA do need a permit. After Brexit, European players might need to apply for a permit just like the non-EEA players. Then you've got all those criteria to meet.

I'd guess the British government will be under a lot of pressure from the football industry to come up with a favourable set of rules, seeing as football is such a fecking cash cow.
 

Zinedine Biscan

Spreading the word of St Igor
Moderator
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
23,743

Jaytinho

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2013
Messages
206
Im not saying Havertz wouldn’t be a good signing but, do we really need to sign him when we have such a talent in Grujic on our books? Hes bigger, stronger, and has similar numbers to Havertz this season while playing deeper. I don’t think we need Havertz if our style is not based on having a prototypical number 10 as our focal point. Grujic would offer more defensively as well, but I guess he will have to fight with Milner for game time

 
Last edited:

cynicaloldgit

#MbappéonaBosman2022
Ad-free Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Messages
4,978
We don’t need Havertz because we have Curtis Jones, who plays an almost identical role, knocking on the first team door.

I’d gladly have Grujic back next season: he can fill any of the three central midfield roles and is rapidly getting better.
 

Jaytinho

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2013
Messages
206
We don’t need Havertz because we have Curtis Jones, who plays an almost identical role, knocking on the first team door.

I’d gladly have Grujic back next season: he can fill any of the three central midfield roles and is rapidly getting better.
Then theres Ox, Keita and now Minamino who are all number 10 capable, including Gini as well. Havertz just dont make any sense from tactical perspective