Who would you buy?

Sweeting

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You're right that we do have around 4 years to find replacements before the front 3 start to decline. That said, it's important to remember that top players aren't available every summer, certainly not those in the age bracket and quality of Sancho. The last time that happened was when Leroy Sané was available in 2016 (Dembele and João Felix to lesser extents in 2017 and 2019 respectively). Can we pass up he opportunity to sign a homegrown player like Sancho in the hope that we can find as good a player in the 2-3 years after that?
May sound odd but I actually think Sancho is a little younger than what the club/Klopp would consider "ideal". Most of our signings seem to be in the 23-27 age bracket (Minimino, Alisson, Keita, Fabinho, Shaqiri, Salah, Mane, Firmino, van Dijk, Chamberlain, Robertson etc.) and I think there are legitimate reasons for that...

1. By this time in their career they will have taken some knocks and, hopefully, proven they can bounce back which a teenager who had flown through a youth academy and into first team football with relative ease might not have had.

2. As the player is a little older there is a perception that they are not "prospects" anymore and that (in the bizarre and illogical transfer market we have now) reduces their cost instead of increases it.

3. The core of the squad, and all the best players, are roughly the same age. There are not significant generational differences between a 25 year old and a 29 year old but there will be with a 29 year old and a 19 year old. Not that teenagers aren't welcome in the dressing room, clearly we use them in our squad, but we don't seem to want to rely on extremely young players to be key cogs.

None of that is to say that we wouldn't or shouldn't pursue a player like Sancho but I think our M.O. is more about signing the guys who took a few knocks at 18/19 - maybe had a transfer that didn't work, or were released by a club - than it is to sign the guys who have had it easy based on their natural talent.

I think of Paul Pogba. Strolled through United's academy (there is nonsense about Morrison being the better player at that age, no he wasn't), went to Juve with United practically begging him to stay. Strolled around Juve's midfield and was the most talented player on the pitch. Went back to Man Utd as the biggest football celebrity in the world and now can't seem to summon up the appetite to play at all, and when he does he doesn't have any of the identity that took him there, he's bored and lost and disinterested. For all his talent he wasn't really mentally tested until he was in his mid 20s and all of a sudden he couldn't hack it. His mind has quit on him.

By contrast the same summer Pogba returned to Man Utd, Liverpool signed Gini Wijnaldum for less than 1/4th of the price. Wijnaldum came to us after just being relegated with Newcastle and a section of supporters putting blame on him for "downing tools". He has worked his arse off everyday he has been here and developed into one of the best all around midfielders in Europe.

I think that is our model. So, the "replacements" for our big players are probably already being scouted but they are likely not shining right now. They are more likely to be 18 years old and barely getting a game for their club in Switzerland then they are to be the Sancho/Felix wonderkid type.
 
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Zinedine Biscan

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May sound odd but I actually think Sancho is a little younger than what the club/Klopp would consider "ideal". Most of our signings seem to be in the 23-27 age bracket (Minimino, Alisson, Keita, Fabinho, Shaqiri, Salah, Mane, Firmino, van Dijk, Chamberlain, Robertson etc.) and I think there are legitimate reasons for that...

1. By this time in their career they will have taken some knocks and, hopefully, proven they can bounce back which a teenager who had flown through a youth academy and into first team football with relative ease might not have had.

2. As the player is a little older there is a perception that they are not "prospects" anymore and that (in the bizarre and illogical transfer market we have now) reduces their cost instead of increases it.

3. The core of the squad, and all the best players, are roughly the same age. There are not significant generational differences between a 25 year old and a 29 year old but there will be with a 29 year old and a 19 year old. Not that teenagers aren't welcome in the dressing room, clearly we use them in our squad, but we don't seem to want to rely on extremely young players to be key cogs.

None of that is to say that we wouldn't or shouldn't pursue a player like Sancho but I think our M.O. is more about signing the guys who took a few knocks at 18/19 - maybe had a transfer that didn't work, or were released by a club - than it is to sign the guys who have had it easy based on their natural talent.

I think of Paul Pogba. Strolled through United's academy (there is nonsense about Morrison being the better player at that age, no he wasn't), went to Juve with United practically begging him to stay. Strolled around Juve's midfield and was the most talented player on the pitch. Went back to Man Utd as the biggest football celebrity in the world and now can't seem to summon up the appetite to play at all, and when he does he doesn't have any of the identity that took him there, he's bored and lost and disinterested. For all his talent he wasn't really mentally tested until he was in his mid 20s and all of a sudden he couldn't hack it. His mind has quit on him.

By contrast the same summer Pogba returned to Man Utd, Liverpool signed Gini Wijnaldum for less than 1/4th of the price. Wijnaldum came to us after just being relegated with Newcastle and a section of supporters putting blame on him for "downing tools". He has worked his arse off everyday he has been here and developed into one of the best all around midfielders in Europe.

I think that is our model. So, the "replacements" for our big players are probably already being scouted but they are likely not shining right now. They are more likely to be 18 years old and barely getting a game for their club in Switzerland then they are to be the Sancho/Felix wonderkid type.
/mic drop.

Damn, son.
 

bazza66

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Strange one for here, but does anyone know what the impact of Brexit will be? Mainly about do we need to sign British (or more than typical).
Yes, we will be taking back control with our oven ready deal.

Sorry, don't know what came over me.

I don't think anyone really knows at the moment. Currently players from within the European Economic Area can sign to an English club without needing a work permit, but players from outside the EEA do need a permit. After Brexit, European players might need to apply for a permit just like the non-EEA players. Then you've got all those criteria to meet.

I'd guess the British government will be under a lot of pressure from the football industry to come up with a favourable set of rules, seeing as football is such a fecking cash cow.
 

Zinedine Biscan

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Jaytinho

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Im not saying Havertz wouldn’t be a good signing but, do we really need to sign him when we have such a talent in Grujic on our books? Hes bigger, stronger, and has similar numbers to Havertz this season while playing deeper. I don’t think we need Havertz if our style is not based on having a prototypical number 10 as our focal point. Grujic would offer more defensively as well, but I guess he will have to fight with Milner for game time

 
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cynicaloldgit

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We don’t need Havertz because we have Curtis Jones, who plays an almost identical role, knocking on the first team door.

I’d gladly have Grujic back next season: he can fill any of the three central midfield roles and is rapidly getting better.
 

Jaytinho

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We don’t need Havertz because we have Curtis Jones, who plays an almost identical role, knocking on the first team door.

I’d gladly have Grujic back next season: he can fill any of the three central midfield roles and is rapidly getting better.
Then theres Ox, Keita and now Minamino who are all number 10 capable, including Gini as well. Havertz just dont make any sense from tactical perspective
 

Zinedine Biscan

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It's an interesting point, as is the fact Havertz plays in a position we don't utilise (no10), which is not to say that he couldn't adapt to play as an 8, but I just have no idea if that would be the case.
 

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An interesting comparison indeed. It's worth noting though that Grujic is more than three years older than Havertz, so it's obvious the the latter must have a higher ceiling. Also, I'm not sure that the mere general stats as listed above give a complete picture of both players. Klopp and the recruitment team are surely looking at far more extensive data to judge a player's qualities, and more importantly, to judge how he'd fit in at the club (also the mental aspects, of which we know how important they are for Klopp and his coaching team).

But it's surely worth asking if Havertz is worth paying such a high amount of money when you already have good players at disposal. Curtis Jones has roughly the same age as Havertz*, so it might be more interesting to compare him with Havertz, rather than Grujic.

* actually scratch that, he's one and a half years younger. o_O
 

Jaytinho

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An interesting comparison indeed. It's worth noting though that Grujic is more than three years older than Havertz, so it's obvious the the latter must have a higher ceiling. Also, I'm not sure that the mere general stats as listed above give a complete picture of both players. Klopp and the recruitment team are surely looking at far more extensive data to judge a player's qualities, and more importantly, to judge how he'd fit in at the club (also the mental aspects, of which we know how important they are for Klopp and his coaching team).

But it's surely worth asking if Havertz is worth paying such a high amount of money when you already have good players at disposal. Curtis Jones has roughly the same age as Havertz*, so it might be more interesting to compare him with Havertz, rather than Grujic.

* actually scratch that, he's one and a half years younger. o_O
I would definitely bet my money on Jones if I was Klopp, not to say there are no discussions between Havertz reps and Klopp etc But I really think Jones gave Klopp something to think about with that performance against the Ev. I have to say this though, Havertz is a hell of a talent, the boy is lie a mixture between Ozil and a prime Gotze at times, crazy eye for a pass. If Werner movement becomes more advanced, I think Klopp would call off the Havertz pursuit
 

Jaytinho

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I'd go for Havertz. Been an admirer of his for a good long while now and he has performed at a high level for a couple of seasons now. Grujic and Havertz are not the same type of player or in the same type of team so compatibility and comparisons are apples and oranges.
Not particularly, especially this season. Although Havertz has been primarily in a AM position with Grujic at 8 (CM), they both have been taking on the creative role. Particularly with Grujic being in more advanced positions than Darida at times, with Skjelbred being the DM. It seems Klinnsman likes Grujic further up, but tracking back ofcourse. But then again, Klinnsman has been playing around alot with shapes since he came in. My thing is, We already have more than enough AM capable players in Ox, Minamino, Shaq, even Keita etc. Havertz would be a luxury signing. Grujic is both capable to play in the central 3 (with Hendo, Gini, Keita, Fab etc) and in a DM 2 with Fab
 

spartacus136

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I don't think Grujic suites our game play. He is slows and swifts off often. However, I hope he could be super-sub player like Origi because he has some interesting attributes we don't have now. I knows he plays as midfielder but he attacks opponent box often like a target man and his aerial game is excellent. With Robo and Trent cross, I think he will be a dangerous weapon for us.
 

Jaytinho

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I don't think Grujic suites our game play. He is slows and swifts off often. However, I hope he could be super-sub player like Origi because he has some interesting attributes we don't have now. I knows he plays as midfielder but he attacks opponent box often like a target man and his aerial game is excellent. With Robo and Trent cross, I think he will be a dangerous weapon for us.
Grujic and Henderson basically play the same position (role), but Klinnsman does not play a 3 man midfield. Grujic next to Fabinho in a 4-2-3-1 would be killer. Both him and Fab have steel, a strong tackle, but are not afraid to carry the ball and pick out a pass. Grujic work rate would be the only question mark
 

Craig_Johnston

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Sorry, Grujic is a poor man's Emre Can. Remember, Voronin was a huge star at Hertha. Just saying...
 

Jaytinho

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Sorry, Grujic is a poor man's Emre Can. Remember, Voronin was a huge star at Hertha. Just saying...
You got it wrong, Emre Can is a poor mans Grujic. And Voronin was, well, shit. You clearly havent been paying attention...
 

Jimmyscase

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This thread's title makes me think of a brand war between Central European museli producers. Going by the names it's difficult to say which one leaves you with more bits between your teeth, that being the only possible purpose of museli of course.
As to which player is more likely to get the bit between their teeth, I think, neither. Lallana needs a two year extension and then let's look at things in the cold light of future windows, with these two shorn of two further years' unfulfilled hype.
 
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Flobs

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Adam Lallana!
Oh ... and i have a soft spot for Grujic I think he is a very skillful player who needed to 'grow' up tactically.
Then there's Curtis Jones who's also a skillful player and is grown up tactically.
No need to spend here imo.
 

Jimmyscase

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Adam Lallana!
Oh ... and i have a soft spot for Grujic I think he is a very skillful player who needed to 'grow' up tactically.
Then there's Curtis Jones who's also a skillful player and is grown up tactically.
No need to spend here imo.
Jones is at the top of the midfield queue. I trust my own eyes more than I do German journalists' quoting the opinion of a trainer with vested interests.
 

norwegian wood

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@Jaytinho

Have you watched Grujic much this season? What do you think of his mobility and defensive awareness, in terms of being able to stop counter attacks? I haven't seen him much the last couple of years; always liked him on the ball, but the question mark for me has been how he would do in defensive transition for a Klopp team.

Same question about Havertz, by the way. Looks very elegant on the ball, but I haven't watched him more than a couple of games, and haven't paid any attention to that part of his game.
 

Flobs

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Jones is at the top of the midfield queue. I trust my own eyes more than I do German journalists' quoting the opinion of a trainer with vested interests.
Every time I see Jones play I can't help thinking 'this guys going to take us far'. How do these youngsters manage to look so cool (must be VVD rubbing off on them, I can't find any other reason unless our academy really is amazing).