• Hey Guest!
    Enjoy the This Is Anfield Forums but want to remove the adverts? Now you can do so by clicking here.
    Thanks for your support!

Who would you buy?

Chewbazza

True Believer
Ad-free Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Messages
9,502
Just looking at up and coming CB prospects in the top 5 leagues (and the Championship). The criteria I used was the assess our four main CBs on their whoscored.com stats and find a common trend.

>1.0 INT & <1.0 FOUAGETAKINTFOUCLRDBPBLKKEYAVP%LNG
MATIP29.01.71.70.95.31.00.60.170.183.12.9
VAN DIJK28.00.71.10.44.80.20.40.182.588.85.5
LOVREN30.01.31.00.34.60.50.80.168.383.92.9
GOMEZ22.00.91.10.81.50.30.30.357.789.32.3
AVERAGE27.31.21.20.64.10.50.50.269.786.33.4

All of our CBs have >1.0 INT (interception) per game with <1.0 FOU (Fouls committed). Gomez's clearances and passing stats are reduced by his appearances at RB but otherwise he is roughly in line with the others. In terms of passing all our CBs are over 83% completion and average roughly 70 passes per game (Gomez's stats in this area increase when only considered at CB).

Therefore I looked at all the CBs under the age of 25 in Europe who are averaging more than 1.0 interceptions and less than 1.0 fouls per game (they also must be regular starters). There are 55 that match these criteria. At this point I factored in the other stats.

Passing I have tried to be more generous with as few will have the volume of passes we do because of the way we play, and the quality of the team.

Centre back is probably the hardest position to judge on the rudimentary stats provided to the public - a good centre back might not need to tackle, for example - but the idea is the find a list of players that should be scouted further, or that people on the forum will know more about and can fill in some blanks that data cannot.

I decided interceptions and fouls was the best measure as this implies a level of awareness and control in situations that could be missing if going off tackles, for example.

Of the 55 players who hit the first criteria I then narrowed that down by removing players with very poor passing statistics, very high dribbled past ratio and those with foul counts on the high end of the acceptable ratio (unless high "activity", which I have deemed as TAK+INT, makes up for it).

This has left now 25 players across Europe's top five leagues who could potentially be fits in our system. I have listed them in no particular order below. Their transfermarkt.co.uk value is in the comments section (this is unreliable but an interesting measure).

AGETAKINTFOUCLRDBPBLKKEYAVP%LNGCOMMENTS
WHITELEEDS22.01.82.50.93.50.40.70.258.485.03.1GOOD PASSING AND INT RATE. HIGHER FOUL COUNT THAN IDEAL BUT INT RATE IS HIGH. £2.25M.
WEBSTERBRIGHTON25.01.21.60.42.80.60.80.464.285.13.8LOW FOUL RATE WITH GOOD DEFENSIVE ACTION. HIGH PASS VOLUME AND %. £13.5M.
TOMORICHELSEA22.02.01.50.52.50.50.30.564.586.03.3LOW FOUL RATE COMPARED TO HIGH ACTIVITY. GOOD PASSING VOLUME AND %. £18M.
SOYUNCULEICESTER23.01.61.40.95.10.60.70.169.489.82.9WELL ROUNDED. HIGH TACKLE AND INTERCEPTION RATE PER FOUL. GOOD PASSING. £36M.
AKEBOURNEMOUTH24.01.11.40.34.20.20.70.348.589.11.9RARELY FOULS DESPITE GOOD TAK & INT RATE. HARD TO DRIBBLE PAST. WOULD LIKE HIGH PASS VOLUME BUT GOOD PASSING %. £31.5M.
GODFREYNORWICH21.00.91.10.44.80.31.40.053.789.32.9RARELY COMMITS FOULS. TOUGH TO DRIBBLE PAST. GOOD ON THE BALL. VERY YOUNG. £11.7M.
FELIPELAZIO22.01.51.60.62.10.40.70.140.987.92.6PASSING INDICATES SIGNIFICANT CHANGE IN STYLE BUT % SHOWS POTENTIAL TO GROW. GOOD DEFENSIVE STATS. £10.8M.
AIDOOCELTA VIGO24.01.41.50.74.30.30.50.146.587.92.8PROMISING PASSING STATS AND GOOD DEFENSIVE EFFICIENCY. £7.2M.
GIMENEZATLETICO24.01.41.30.63.40.40.30.041.885.24.0NEEDS TO DEVELOP PASS VOLUME BUT STRONG DEFENSIVE STATS. £63M.
ELVEDIGLADBACH23.01.72.20.63.50.60.40.049.992.21.9NOT AN ENTERPRISING PASSER BUT IS SAFE. HIGH POINTS ON DEFENSIVE STATS. £31.5M.
SCHONLAUPADERBORN25.02.42.10.96.90.80.50.271.589.32.9HIGH DEFENSIVE NUMBERS OFFSET 0.9 FOUL COUNT. VERY STRONG PASSING. £1.35M.
ST JUSTEMAINZ23.02.22.00.83.30.70.80.139.486.22.1EXCELLENT DEFENSIVE ACTIVITY OFFSETS HIGHER FOUL COUNT. PASSING VOLUME IS LOW BUT SHOWS POTENTIAL. £8.1M.
UPAMECANOLEIPZIG21.02.51.50.83.20.80.50.571.788.85.0AGGRESSIVE PASSER WITH HIGH %. HIGH DEFENSIVE OUTPUT PER FOUL. £45M.
REKIKHERTHA BERLIN25.01.41.50.72.70.30.70.148.687.74.3GOOD DEFENSIVE OUTPUT. PASSING GRADE IS OK BUT IN NEED OF HIGHER VOLUME. £10.8M.
LIENHARTFREIBURG23.00.51.50.53.50.30.70.255.384.53.5HIGH NUMBER OF INTERCEPTIONS WITH PROMISING PASSING NUMBERS. £9.9M.
AKANJIDORTMUND24.01.31.10.62.50.50.60.167.191.03.1GOOD ACTIVITY TO FOUL RATE. USED TO HIGH VOLUME PASSING. GOOD %. £31.5M.
SARRNICE20.00.72.00.21.40.50.30.159.690.23.5VERY LOW FOUL RATE WITH HIGH INTERCEPTIONS. VERY GOOD PASSING %. £16.2M.
MUKINAYIMONACO18.01.11.70.82.80.30.70.256.884.93.4DEFENSIVE NUMBERS SHOW POTENTIAL DESPITE RAISED FOUL COUNT. STRONG PASSING STATS. £18M.
PELMARDNICE19.02.21.50.32.60.20.40.058.490.91.5SAFER PASSER BUT HIGH DEFENSIVE NUMBERS WITH LOW FOULS. HARD TO DRIBBLE PAST. £3.6M.
GELINRENNES22.01.11.30.52.80.50.60.240.686.74.2AGGRESSIVE PASSING CB WITH GOOD OUTPUT TO FOUL RATIO. £5.4M.
DIASBENFICA22.01.31.10.62.40.40.40.565.189.75.6ENTERPRISING PASSER WITH OK FOUL COUNT. ROOM TO IMPROVE. £34.2M.
MEULENSTEENWAALWIJK20.01.41.90.43.50.91.50.155.585.24.6GETS DRIBBLED PAST TOO EASILY BUT TAK AND BLK SUGGESTS HAS PACE TO MAKE UP FOR IT. GOOD PASSING. £360K.
VEENDORPEMMEN22.01.91.70.73.70.50.60.151.982.45.5DEFENSIVE OUTPUT IS STRONG. OK PASSER, NEEDS TO IMPROVE HERE. £540K.
BOTMANHEERENVEEN20.01.51.40.55.20.20.60.365.883.83.9SHOWS PROMISE IN BOTH PASSING AND DEFENDING. DOESN'T CONCEDE TOO MANY FOULS. HARD TO DRIBBLE PAST. £1.13M.
DOEKHIVITESSE21.01.21.10.45.30.10.60.254.988.72.2LOW FOUL RATE WITH GOOD ACTIVE DEFENDING STATS. SOLID PASSING NUMBERS. £810K.

My personal favourites are the Nice centre backs Malang Sarr & Andy Pelmard, Adam Webster, Nico Elvedi and Nathan Ake.

Andy Pelmard and Malang Sarr have the added bonus of being extremely young. Dayot Upamecano, Sven Botman and Ben Godfrey are extremely promising also.

Sebastien Schonlau's stats are outstanding but I am unsure if this is simply an unusual season and would need more details.
Excellent stuff. I would not be sad if you did this again for other positions that we might be looking to recruit to.

I believe we have been linked to Ben White recently, so that might be one to keep an eye on.
 

SithBaare

From Doubters to Believers
Joined
Aug 10, 2017
Messages
2,117
Reinforcements for the defense.

One cb , one rb and one lb.

If we can get a jack of all trades who can boost in multiple positions , I would say we go for it....maybe a two footed wingback and one cb who can play either of rb or lb.

Easier said than done but we really need bench strength
 

SithBaare

From Doubters to Believers
Joined
Aug 10, 2017
Messages
2,117
Grujic and Henderson basically play the same position (role), but Klinnsman does not play a 3 man midfield. Grujic next to Fabinho in a 4-2-3-1 would be killer. Both him and Fab have steel, a strong tackle, but are not afraid to carry the ball and pick out a pass. Grujic work rate would be the only question mark
Sounds good. Depends on whether klopp plays a double pivot #6. Nothing that I've seen about klopp leads me to believe he can't be pragmatical at times despite the tag of heavy metal football applied to his style of play.

I for one wouldn't mind that being used , especially in games where robbo and Trent are being given a rest
 

norwegian wood

TIA Regular
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Messages
5,250
Yeah, we don't play a pure 4-3-3 anyway. That's mostly the defensive starting shape. Gini in particular often plays more withdrawn, rather than a shuttler role.
 

norwegian wood

TIA Regular
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Messages
5,250
The game has shifted to transitions now. That's what klopp is all about.
Definitely, that's been his trade mark for many years. And it still is, even though he has become more focused on a structured possession game the last couple of years in particular.

Anyway, that's where I'm unsure about Grujic, because I haven't watched him that much. The foundation of our midfield is good transition play; they need to be alert and agressive, both when it comes to locking the opposition in their own half, and also track back to put out the small fires. I think that's where he needs to convince the coaching staff he either has what it takes, or can get to a level they look for with a bit of work.
 

Zoran

Fighting like beavers.
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
18,417
Good stuff, @Sweeting .

I'm usually too lazy to check so many stats and compare them (something that simply has to be used well in context, certainly not ignored, but not taken solely into account). But it's good when you narrow it down like that, prioritize and make it simple and clean. Not messy.

(y)
 

Sweeting

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
9,129
Good stuff, @Sweeting .

I'm usually too lazy to check so many stats and compare them (something that simply has to be used well in context, certainly not ignored, but not taken solely into account). But it's good when you narrow it down like that, prioritize and make it simple and clean. Not messy.

(y)
I think that is the key. Stats are a useful guide and can filter out a lot of "noise" but it shouldn't be the be all and end all - I think the eye test is still very important.
 

Limiescouse

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
14,497
Ive heard a couple of podcasts from the people at 538 responsible for the football analysis. What I found so fascinating about it was how much they acknowledged that all their models were very preliminary. Most of the discussions focused on the limitations of using basic statistics, the sort we see at half time presented to you by Opta, in developing a sabremetric model for football. They then discuss ways these various stats can be contextualized and controlled for with other stats. All the while acknowledging that what they were trying to accomplish at this stage was simply generating a model that can approximate the eye test...and any deviation they see they put down to the limitation of the model.
 

Zoran

Fighting like beavers.
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
18,417
I think that is the key. Stats are a useful guide and can filter out a lot of "noise" but it shouldn't be the be all and end all - I think the eye test is still very important.
Yeah, filter is a good word. Or tool. It can either confirm or reassure what you think (or you're pretty sure) you're seeing or it's like a voice that says to the brain "your eye might be missing something here, have a look".
 

Sweeting

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
9,129
Ive heard a couple of podcasts from the people at 538 responsible for the football analysis. What I found so fascinating about it was how much they acknowledged that all their models were very preliminary. Most of the discussions focused on the limitations of using basic statistics, the sort we see at half time presented to you by Opta, in developing a sabremetric model for football. They then discuss ways these various stats can be contextualized and controlled for with other stats. All the while acknowledging that what they were trying to accomplish at this stage was simply generating a model that can approximate the eye test...and any deviation they see they put down to the limitation of the model.
Case in point - the Sky Sports "Power Rankings" which is a statistical model supposed to be a measure of how in form a player is currently (over 5 match days) has only one Liverpool player in the top 10 (Alexander-Arnold, 8) where as Watford have two (Deeney, 5 and Doucoure, 7).

It also has some rather dodgy claims to who is their teams best player... Sokratis (Arsenal), Gosling (Bournemouth), Azpilicueta (Chelsea), Martial (Man Utd) and even Alexander-Arnold listed as our best player.
 

kiwiredman

This is my serious face
Joined
Sep 16, 2016
Messages
560
Just looking at up and coming CB prospects in the top 5 leagues (and the Championship). The criteria I used was the assess our four main CBs on their whoscored.com stats and find a common trend.

>1.0 INT & <1.0 FOUAGETAKINTFOUCLRDBPBLKKEYAVP%LNG
MATIP29.01.71.70.95.31.00.60.170.183.12.9
VAN DIJK28.00.71.10.44.80.20.40.182.588.85.5
LOVREN30.01.31.00.34.60.50.80.168.383.92.9
GOMEZ22.00.91.10.81.50.30.30.357.789.32.3
AVERAGE27.31.21.20.64.10.50.50.269.786.33.4

All of our CBs have >1.0 INT (interception) per game with <1.0 FOU (Fouls committed). Gomez's clearances and passing stats are reduced by his appearances at RB but otherwise he is roughly in line with the others. In terms of passing all our CBs are over 83% completion and average roughly 70 passes per game (Gomez's stats in this area increase when only considered at CB).

Therefore I looked at all the CBs under the age of 25 in Europe who are averaging more than 1.0 interceptions and less than 1.0 fouls per game (they also must be regular starters). There are 55 that match these criteria. At this point I factored in the other stats.

Passing I have tried to be more generous with as few will have the volume of passes we do because of the way we play, and the quality of the team.

Centre back is probably the hardest position to judge on the rudimentary stats provided to the public - a good centre back might not need to tackle, for example - but the idea is the find a list of players that should be scouted further, or that people on the forum will know more about and can fill in some blanks that data cannot.

I decided interceptions and fouls was the best measure as this implies a level of awareness and control in situations that could be missing if going off tackles, for example.

Of the 55 players who hit the first criteria I then narrowed that down by removing players with very poor passing statistics, very high dribbled past ratio and those with foul counts on the high end of the acceptable ratio (unless high "activity", which I have deemed as TAK+INT, makes up for it).

This has left now 25 players across Europe's top five leagues who could potentially be fits in our system. I have listed them in no particular order below. Their transfermarkt.co.uk value is in the comments section (this is unreliable but an interesting measure).

AGETAKINTFOUCLRDBPBLKKEYAVP%LNGCOMMENTS
WHITELEEDS22.01.82.50.93.50.40.70.258.485.03.1GOOD PASSING AND INT RATE. HIGHER FOUL COUNT THAN IDEAL BUT INT RATE IS HIGH. £2.25M.
WEBSTERBRIGHTON25.01.21.60.42.80.60.80.464.285.13.8LOW FOUL RATE WITH GOOD DEFENSIVE ACTION. HIGH PASS VOLUME AND %. £13.5M.
TOMORICHELSEA22.02.01.50.52.50.50.30.564.586.03.3LOW FOUL RATE COMPARED TO HIGH ACTIVITY. GOOD PASSING VOLUME AND %. £18M.
SOYUNCULEICESTER23.01.61.40.95.10.60.70.169.489.82.9WELL ROUNDED. HIGH TACKLE AND INTERCEPTION RATE PER FOUL. GOOD PASSING. £36M.
AKEBOURNEMOUTH24.01.11.40.34.20.20.70.348.589.11.9RARELY FOULS DESPITE GOOD TAK & INT RATE. HARD TO DRIBBLE PAST. WOULD LIKE HIGH PASS VOLUME BUT GOOD PASSING %. £31.5M.
GODFREYNORWICH21.00.91.10.44.80.31.40.053.789.32.9RARELY COMMITS FOULS. TOUGH TO DRIBBLE PAST. GOOD ON THE BALL. VERY YOUNG. £11.7M.
FELIPELAZIO22.01.51.60.62.10.40.70.140.987.92.6PASSING INDICATES SIGNIFICANT CHANGE IN STYLE BUT % SHOWS POTENTIAL TO GROW. GOOD DEFENSIVE STATS. £10.8M.
AIDOOCELTA VIGO24.01.41.50.74.30.30.50.146.587.92.8PROMISING PASSING STATS AND GOOD DEFENSIVE EFFICIENCY. £7.2M.
GIMENEZATLETICO24.01.41.30.63.40.40.30.041.885.24.0NEEDS TO DEVELOP PASS VOLUME BUT STRONG DEFENSIVE STATS. £63M.
ELVEDIGLADBACH23.01.72.20.63.50.60.40.049.992.21.9NOT AN ENTERPRISING PASSER BUT IS SAFE. HIGH POINTS ON DEFENSIVE STATS. £31.5M.
SCHONLAUPADERBORN25.02.42.10.96.90.80.50.271.589.32.9HIGH DEFENSIVE NUMBERS OFFSET 0.9 FOUL COUNT. VERY STRONG PASSING. £1.35M.
ST JUSTEMAINZ23.02.22.00.83.30.70.80.139.486.22.1EXCELLENT DEFENSIVE ACTIVITY OFFSETS HIGHER FOUL COUNT. PASSING VOLUME IS LOW BUT SHOWS POTENTIAL. £8.1M.
UPAMECANOLEIPZIG21.02.51.50.83.20.80.50.571.788.85.0AGGRESSIVE PASSER WITH HIGH %. HIGH DEFENSIVE OUTPUT PER FOUL. £45M.
REKIKHERTHA BERLIN25.01.41.50.72.70.30.70.148.687.74.3GOOD DEFENSIVE OUTPUT. PASSING GRADE IS OK BUT IN NEED OF HIGHER VOLUME. £10.8M.
LIENHARTFREIBURG23.00.51.50.53.50.30.70.255.384.53.5HIGH NUMBER OF INTERCEPTIONS WITH PROMISING PASSING NUMBERS. £9.9M.
AKANJIDORTMUND24.01.31.10.62.50.50.60.167.191.03.1GOOD ACTIVITY TO FOUL RATE. USED TO HIGH VOLUME PASSING. GOOD %. £31.5M.
SARRNICE20.00.72.00.21.40.50.30.159.690.23.5VERY LOW FOUL RATE WITH HIGH INTERCEPTIONS. VERY GOOD PASSING %. £16.2M.
MUKINAYIMONACO18.01.11.70.82.80.30.70.256.884.93.4DEFENSIVE NUMBERS SHOW POTENTIAL DESPITE RAISED FOUL COUNT. STRONG PASSING STATS. £18M.
PELMARDNICE19.02.21.50.32.60.20.40.058.490.91.5SAFER PASSER BUT HIGH DEFENSIVE NUMBERS WITH LOW FOULS. HARD TO DRIBBLE PAST. £3.6M.
GELINRENNES22.01.11.30.52.80.50.60.240.686.74.2AGGRESSIVE PASSING CB WITH GOOD OUTPUT TO FOUL RATIO. £5.4M.
DIASBENFICA22.01.31.10.62.40.40.40.565.189.75.6ENTERPRISING PASSER WITH OK FOUL COUNT. ROOM TO IMPROVE. £34.2M.
MEULENSTEENWAALWIJK20.01.41.90.43.50.91.50.155.585.24.6GETS DRIBBLED PAST TOO EASILY BUT TAK AND BLK SUGGESTS HAS PACE TO MAKE UP FOR IT. GOOD PASSING. £360K.
VEENDORPEMMEN22.01.91.70.73.70.50.60.151.982.45.5DEFENSIVE OUTPUT IS STRONG. OK PASSER, NEEDS TO IMPROVE HERE. £540K.
BOTMANHEERENVEEN20.01.51.40.55.20.20.60.365.883.83.9SHOWS PROMISE IN BOTH PASSING AND DEFENDING. DOESN'T CONCEDE TOO MANY FOULS. HARD TO DRIBBLE PAST. £1.13M.
DOEKHIVITESSE21.01.21.10.45.30.10.60.254.988.72.2LOW FOUL RATE WITH GOOD ACTIVE DEFENDING STATS. SOLID PASSING NUMBERS. £810K.

My personal favourites are the Nice centre backs Malang Sarr & Andy Pelmard, Adam Webster, Nico Elvedi and Nathan Ake.

Andy Pelmard and Malang Sarr have the added bonus of being extremely young. Dayot Upamecano, Sven Botman and Ben Godfrey are extremely promising also.

Sebastien Schonlau's stats are outstanding but I am unsure if this is simply an unusual season and would need more details.
Wow, huge effort there Sir. Excellent stuff.

Out of curiosity, how would Sepp VDB's stats have meausred up amongst the players on your list?
 

Sweeting

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
9,129
Wow, huge effort there Sir. Excellent stuff.

Out of curiosity, how would Sepp VDB's stats have meausred up amongst the players on your list?
Van Den Berg 2018/2019

AGETAKINTFOUCLRDBPBLKKEYAVP%LNG
VAN DEN BERGZWOLLE17.01.30.80.32.70.30.30.236.288.42.3

He comes out slightly behind so for the purposes of the exercise I performed (which was aimed at bringing in a CB for the first team) I would not have highlighted him based on last season. However, as a 17 year old you can see the stats there that drew us to him for the U23 squad - low foul count, hard to dribble past and high pass completion.
 

Richard88

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2017
Messages
377
What’s next? Pepe? Pulisic? Reus? Götze? Lacazette?

No offense but the quantity of your 'who would buy' posts ... it appears to me that you are a 'let’s spend for the sake of spending' guy.

We have the best team in the world.
And the best squad in the world.
And some promising youngsters coming through.
Squad is pretty packed.
Players have long term contracts.

Very likely that not much is going to happen and not much money will be spend.
I don't think we should spend for the sake of spending at all. However, I do think that the team is at a level right now that any additions need to be made at a quality level which will improve what we already have (very difficult), and/or in an age bracket which will allow for a smooth succession as current First XI players exit their peak years.

If there's no one available who can strengthen the side, and no positions of need currently, then I would be absolutely fine with no signings being made, as I was last summer.

That said, several key first XI players are nearing or entering their 30's (eg. Henderson, Wijnaldum, front 3, etc), and several players are winding down (eg. Lallana, Lovren, Milner), so it's important that we bring in players who will keep the level high, both in the present and also in the future.

The club is also in a very healthy financial position, with CL revenue, new Nike kit deal, TV revenues, etc etc, and having not spent much last summer there's really no reason why they shouldn't be able to compete for the best talent available - IF they are deemed to be worth it.

Note that I'm not saying that the club should go out and sign big players for the sake of it in every position. Rather, I have said that there are one or two key positions that need strengthening, namely LW and CM. A CB as well if Lovren leaves. It would be nice to sign a young LB, but in the short term we are fine there with Milner covering.

With that in mind, obviously there's a limit to how much we should reasonably spend (and I'm not really in the "let's sign Mbappe for £200m+ boat"), but why shouldn't we go out and try to get the very best LW and CM available? The squad is after all at a world class level right now because players who were the best in their positions were signed. Examples include Alisson, Van Dijk, Keita (who was a top 2 CM in terms of goals and assists in the BL), and Salah (who likewise had one of Europe's highest outputs in goals and assists for a winger at Roma). Now we have Sancho, who is only 19 but is already producing goals and assists that are among the best in not only the Bundesliga but also in Europe:

According to whoscored, Sancho has 0.7 assists per 90mins this season, which is ranked 1st among wingers under age 25 in Europe. He's also 3rd in goals per 90mins with 0.7, behind Mbappe (0.9) and Rashford (0.8) (Rashford is more of a forward anyhow). That's a pretty spectacular output if you ask me. And it's not a flash-in-the-pan either, as he already produced 12 goals and 14 assists last season as well as an 18 year old.
 
Last edited:

Richard88

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2017
Messages
377
Van Den Berg 2018/2019

AGETAKINTFOUCLRDBPBLKKEYAVP%LNG
VAN DEN BERGZWOLLE17.01.30.80.32.70.30.30.236.288.42.3

He comes out slightly behind so for the purposes of the exercise I performed (which was aimed at bringing in a CB for the first team) I would not have highlighted him based on last season. However, as a 17 year old you can see the stats there that drew us to him for the U23 squad - low foul count, hard to dribble past and high pass completion.
Great job compiling the stats, very interesting. Thank you!
 

spizfromoz

Es maluco, filho da puta!
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
6,344
2021 Africa Cup of Nations will be in January next year, so we'll miss out on Mo, Mane and Keita for many weeks. So, perhaps we can sell Mo Salah, use the money to buy Jadon Sancho and Timo Werner to cover Mane. Perhaps Keita will be injured in December and recovered in time not be considered by Guinea. Mo Salah feels like the easiest to replace out of our front three.
 

SithBaare

From Doubters to Believers
Joined
Aug 10, 2017
Messages
2,117
2021 Africa Cup of Nations will be in January next year, so we'll miss out on Mo, Mane and Keita for many weeks. So, perhaps we can sell Mo Salah, use the money to buy Jadon Sancho and Timo Werner to cover Mane. Perhaps Keita will be injured in December and recovered in time not be considered by Guinea. Mo Salah feels like the easiest to replace out of our front three.
Maybe Mo takes international retirement
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
11,671
Mo Salah feels like the easiest to replace out of our front three.
Yep so easy to replace someone able to set scoring records the likes of Ronaldo, Henry and Shearer couldn't match (and he did it almost without any penalties). Liverpool's top scorer per game in the premier league era. From the wing. Taking very few free kicks and penalties. So easy to replace such a player. I know Mane has worked his way up to fantastic form and Salah has had spotty form this season (not helped by playing with an ankle injury) but big picture Salah has more goals and assists for us than Mane and been here one less season. Firmino is a wonderful character with a brilliant playing style that unlocks the other two, hes a very rare player but think he'd be the easiest to change or replace. We've got three truly exceptional players who would all be near impossible to replace but I'm getting really worried about this seeming lack of appreciation of just how phenomenally special a player we have on our hands with Salah that seems to be spreading through the fan base these days.
 

waldaz

TIA Youth Team
Joined
Dec 30, 2007
Messages
329
Does anyone actually think the AFCON will significantly affect our business in the summer? I don't.
I don't know, but I read somewhere (maybe it was Maddock?) that we were looking at another attacking option in the summer, so this could be another incentive. That news means losing our two biggest guns simultaneously for a reasonably long period, and that's before counting possible injuries.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Ad-free Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
11,671
I don't know, but I read somewhere (maybe it was Maddock?) that we were looking at another attacking option in the summer, so this could be another incentive. That news means losing our two biggest guns simultaneously for a reasonably long period, and that's before counting possible injuries.
And some of us think we need to improve the quality of the other options behind Salah and Mane before this. The clubs success is currently resting fully on them two not picking up any major injuries.
 

Noo Noo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
4,051
Does anyone actually think the AFCON will significantly affect our business in the summer? I don't.
Tough call. Origi is clearly behind in the pecking order and Shaqiri has simply been injured too often to make any kind of statement whatsoever. Minimano is an interesting option that we now have and there is of course Brewster and we will get another look at Wilson this Summer.

The numbers are there already, The question is whether Klopp thinks they can fill the void. My money would be yes on Shaqiri and Minimano at the moment but they need more game time to really be assesses properly.
 

Sweeting

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
9,129
Does anyone actually think the AFCON will significantly affect our business in the summer? I don't.
I think we are likely looking to move Shaqiri on and replace him anyway - so that won't change anything in that regard.

I also picture everyone freaking out about not having Salah, Mane and Keita whilst we go and win every game.
 

redfanman

TIA Regular
Ad-free Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2008
Messages
14,165
Tough call. Origi is clearly behind in the pecking order and Shaqiri has simply been injured too often to make any kind of statement whatsoever. Minimano is an interesting option that we now have and there is of course Brewster and we will get another look at Wilson this Summer.

The numbers are there already, The question is whether Klopp thinks they can fill the void. My money would be yes on Shaqiri and Minimano at the moment but they need more game time to really be assesses properly.
Even when fit Shaqiri is rarely asked to play, so i dont think injuries are the issue. I dont see us keeping Wilson either. He scores goals but still doesnt appear to have enough to his game to warrant a place in our first team ssquad.
 

norwegian wood

TIA Regular
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Messages
5,250
Does anyone actually think the AFCON will significantly affect our business in the summer? I don't.
Me neither. I don't think they'll make such short term considerations, and change their plans for incoming business because of a few weeks. But I do think it could possibly affect some planned outgoing loans.
 

LondonRich

Active Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2017
Messages
65
Van Den Berg 2018/2019

AGETAKINTFOUCLRDBPBLKKEYAVP%LNG
VAN DEN BERGZWOLLE17.01.30.80.32.70.30.30.236.288.42.3

He comes out slightly behind so for the purposes of the exercise I performed (which was aimed at bringing in a CB for the first team) I would not have highlighted him based on last season. However, as a 17 year old you can see the stats there that drew us to him for the U23 squad - low foul count, hard to dribble past and high pass completion.
I have a completely undefined method I use to assess CBs. The best always seem to be fluid, effortless in the way they move. You think VVD, Gomez, Hansen, Lawrenson, Rio Ferdinand, Keown etc. They seem unhurried and smooth.

When I look at Sepp he seems jerky and less fluid. Traore was the same! So I worry about him. Maybe its about anticipation or just athleticism.

Anyone else have a view?

and on CBs - pace is the key too these days. What stats do we have on that?