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Who would you buy?

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Red over the water

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I think Shaqiri will go in the summer. When we bought him it added squad depth at a good price, since Stoke were relegated. He is a good player, but at his age he should be looking to play more as a main man elsewhere. He has had too many injury niggles here, and I agree with validity of questioning his fit for the team - to my eye it often slows down when it goes to him, as he takes a touch and then another.

He has popped up with some decent goals e.g. thanks for Man Utd. Again, he's a decent player, but all things considered I can't see Shaqiri staying beyond the summer. Another part of the reasoning is the kids we have coming through.
 

ILLOK

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Think he's been an unused sub like 10 times or something already this season and probably not made the match squad at all when fit sometimes on top of that. Not that shocking in and of itself but Salah has had issues with form and an ankle injury too so Klopp could have played him lots more. He just doesn't fit the playing style and tactics. We usually seem to switch to 4231 when he is involved too.
Shaqiri was injured when Salah was.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Shaqiri was injured when Salah was.
Not quite the whole time. Salah could have been rested more and Shaqiri could have been used more during some of those games. He was still getting plagued with it till up to the World Cup or later, he definitely could have done with more rests during the busy time. Maybe his form would be better if it had.
 

ILLOK

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Not quite the whole time. Salah could have been rested more and Shaqiri could have been used more during some of those games. He was still getting plagued with it till up to the World Cup or later, he definitely could have done with more rests during the busy time. Maybe his form would be better if it had.
Shaqiri returned to the bench 8 weeks after Salah picked up his ankle injury, he started 2 out of the next 4 league games + the Monterrey fixture and then got injured again.

Salah was very sharp against Bournemouth, Salzburg and Watford, just after Shaqiri returned vs Everton. It didn't look like he was 'plagued' at all by injury, quite the opposite.

I'm really not sure where you're getting this from?
 
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Anfield rd Dreamer

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Shaqiri returned to the bench 8 weeks after Salah picked up his ankle injury, he started 2 out of the next 4 league games + the Monterrey fixture and then got injured again.

Salah was very sharp against Bournemouth, Salzburg and Watford, just after Shaqiri returned vs Everton. It didn't look like he was 'plagued' at all by injury, quite the opposite.

I'm really not sure where you're getting this from?
So Salah hasn't been less than his usual great self since the ankle injury? He's had like two or three good games since then.
 

ILLOK

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So Salah hasn't been less than his usual great self since the ankle injury? He's had like two or three good games since then.
You were making a point about Shaqiri and Klopp not using him when Salah wasn't fit. You have got your timeline wrong.

Klopp couldn't use Shaqiri because he was injured (he was injured before Salah got a knock against Leicester (05/10)). Salah's form was excellent when Shaqiri did return from injury (04/12). Shaqiri started 3 out of 6 possible games before getting injured again (27/12), Salah scored 4 and got 2 assists in that time and was also generally looking much sharper than previously, as evidenced by all the running in behind he was doing.

To get on to the broader point of the discussion, I also don't and never have thought Shaqiri was an ideal fit but he's still a decent enough option when healthy (not often enough which is why I'd replace him), and had be been fit I'm sure Klopp would have used him more often.
 
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Anfield rd Dreamer

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You were making a point about Shaqiri and Klopp not using him when Salah wasn't fit. You have got your timeline wrong.

Klopp couldn't use Shaqiri because he was injured (he was injured before Salah got a knock against Leicester (05/10)). Salah's form was excellent when Shaqiri did return from injury (04/12). Shaqiri started 3 out of 6 possible games before getting injured again (27/12), Salah scored 4 and got 2 assists in that time and was also generally looking much sharper than previously, as evidenced by all the running in behind he was doing.

To get on to the broader point of the discussion, I also don't and never have thought Shaqiri was an ideal fit but he's still a decent enough option when healthy (not often enough which is why I'd replace him), and had be been fit I'm sure Klopp would have used him more often.
Fitness isn't an energy bar that fully replenished every match you look at sequences of games. In this case Salah got some rests because he was struggling with this injury and then at the start of the sequence he had great form for a few games, it tailed off as he was played more and more. If he'd had more rests during the early stage (when Shaqiri was around) and then during the later stage (other players would have needed to be used) then he could have maintained that great form for the whole sequence instead of it being a flash in the pan near the start (the only time he actually did get rested). Bournemouth for instance we were 3 nil up by 55th minute, Salah played the whole game, in form at the time out of form and looking tired in later games. Shaqiri came on in that game for 3 minutes replacing Ox. Just as an example. The problem isn't that we don't have the players to rest/rotate Salah and Mane to keep them firing and in good form all season. The problem is we don't have the players that would mean we still play at the top of our game when we rest Salah and Mane. Klopp doesn't want to rest them and risk results (neither do I) even when they can and maybe should be rested because every game and result matters so much. Maybe now we've built up an unprecedented lead we might see them rested more for Minamino (wasn't in the options before this) and Elliot (developing and maybe ready for games) and the problem is over.
 

ILLOK

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I guess you're determined to make the point despite the evidence. Fair enough.
 

koptician

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Given that we are losing Salah, Mane, and Keita for 6-8 weeks in the middle of next season, should we be going for a forward? Midfield should be able to cope and Minamino and Shaq (assuming he'll still be here) plus Origi can cover but ideally we need another forward...especially if Shaq is sold
 

norwegian wood

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Whoa..6-8 weeks? That's a long time, I assumed it was more like 4. Not great that.

Still though, I'm not sure it justifies buying someone they weren't already planning to buy. Tricky..
 

Zoran

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Maybe the whole competition lasts 4 weeks, but the players need to leave their clubs a bit sooner? Plus, having a little rest when it's over, if they had a long tournament. But yeah, 8 does sound like a lot.

Anyway, Klopp talks in length about it here (13:54). Mentions also how it might influence our transfer dealings.

 
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koptician

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Whoa..6-8 weeks? That's a long time, I assumed it was more like 4. Not great that.

Still though, I'm not sure it justifies buying someone they weren't already planning to buy. Tricky..
yeah, They go off to training camp before the tournament starts and that's not including their recovery period after the tournament. So potentially more...I think that justifies one purchase. Also, Salah and Mane are in their prime, you don't want to buy when they are declining. Then even up-and-comers will be priced higher
 

Chewbazza

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I guess the big issue would be if, for example, we were planning on going big for Havertz and a defender this year and then a forward the summer after.

If we now have to go for a forward, do you go for a best fit even if it's not perfect, do you go for whoever were are looking at for the future even if they may not be fully ready yet, do you have to suddenly start compromising and find someone who's a better fit that Shaqiri but who can drop down the pecking order when we finally sign Mbappe?

I'm sure we'll hit on the right solution, but it's definitely a problem we could do without.
 

Richard88

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The change of date of the AFCON is also problematic from the perspective that the club now plan 2 summer transfer windows ahead. This news announced with less than a year until the tournament gives the clubs recruitment team only one window to get it right in the summer and may force the club to alter their plans with regards to the timing of recruits in both summer 2020 and 2021.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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The change of date of the AFCON is also problematic from the perspective that the club now plan 2 summer transfer windows ahead. This news announced with less than a year until the tournament gives the clubs recruitment team only one window to get it right in the summer and may force the club to alter their plans with regards to the timing of recruits in both summer 2020 and 2021.
Find it hard to believe people within the game didn't think of this as a possibility or even probability. AFCON was never officially changed permanently from what I understand. The reasons for changing it back this time seem like the result could have been predicted. Just because it came out of the blue for fans I'm sure more knowledgeable people within the game were expecting it.
 

waldaz

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If (big IF) the intention is to sell one of the front three in a couple of years, maybe we could try with a 2 year plan. We buy a Sancho this summer, if he accepts he'll have to fight for a place in the first year, and that he'll play all the games while AFCON is on at the very least. Then in the summer we sell one of the big guns with a cheaper replacement, while Sancho becomes our nailed on starter.
 

FilthyBloke

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UEFA and Fifa and the premier league should get together.
All international games should take place in January/February like AFCON. All those ridiculous group stages against San Marino and Serbia can be grouped together.
That way nobody loses players to international football and it frees up all the early months of the season to fit in the league games that would have been scheduled for January/February.
Would also allow for the league cup to start and end earlier.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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The AFCON thing doesn't actually change things much. At any time we could lose Salah or Mane to injury. Maybe even a long term injury. At that stage the other will also miss occasional games, may even miss some because of a knock. We've been exceptionally lucky with both of them with regards to injuries so far, either could have picked up some form of impact injury that took them out for awhile at any time even if they are seemingly immune from muscle and tendon damage through playing (think both have before joining us though). The only difference is with the AFCON we know we definitely will lose both at some point next season, at the same time, instead of it just being a possibility for the rest of this season and next season. The question is are our back up choices good enough to play as starters for a stretch if one or both are missing for an extended time. My personal opinion it's the choices in our squad where I am least happy with the quality/fit of the alternative options. Milner replaces Robertson for a month or two? Ok not great but not end of the world. Adrian with Alisson? Well we know that isn't a disaster. I think Gomez and Matip would make a real good partnership if need be. Henderson has done great covering for Fabinho. Wijnaldum and Henderson it's hard to tell who is the starter anyway. Minamino and Origi between them could probably see us through a Firmino absence. Origi at LW for two months? Hardly ideal. Shaqiri at RW makes us change back to 4231 most of the time. Just not happy with these areas myself.
 

redfanman

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I guess the big issue would be if, for example, we were planning on going big for Havertz and a defender this year and then a forward the summer after.

If we now have to go for a forward, do you go for a best fit even if it's not perfect, do you go for whoever were are looking at for the future even if they may not be fully ready yet, do you have to suddenly start compromising and find someone who's a better fit that Shaqiri but who can drop down the pecking order when we finally sign Mbappe?

I'm sure we'll hit on the right solution, but it's definitely a problem we could do without.
We might try a formation change or simply look for players who can play multiple positions. Could we bring Williams in at Full back and play Trent further forward for example?

If Brewster has a good second half of the season and Elliot and Jones too, then again we might not be under as much pressure.
 

Chewbazza

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We might try a formation change or simply look for players who can play multiple positions. Could we bring Williams in at Full back and play Trent further forward for example?

If Brewster has a good second half of the season and Elliot and Jones too, then again we might not be under as much pressure.
Yes, I'm far from convinced that we have to buy. If we weren't planning on buying a forward this summer, I do think we'll look at other solutions first. Between Bobby, Minamino, Origi, Shaqiri, Elliott, Jones and maybe even Wilson, there might not be a problem.
 

Nikola

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Ismaila Sarr could be the one to watch in Premier League. Very raw, a bit like Origi but I have a feeling that his mental frame will lead him to become a better player than Origi in the future, possibly much more than that (and he didn't come cheap anyway). I've actually noticed him at World Cup but I think I had read about him prior to it, which very likely influenced my perception of him. Still, for the last few weeks, he's been a bright spark at Watford, like the whole team, he's turning his fortunes around.
 

Zoran

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I do remember his name, he was signed by Rennes I think as a replacement for Ousmane Dembele, who then left for Dortmund. Need to see more of him.
 

AlwaysRatedLovren

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Lemar! Di Marzio just reported that Roma are still trying to get Shaq, and even though I like the guy, it's becoming pretty obvious that Jurgen is not THAT interested in keeping him. So I'd let him go and bring in Lemar as a backup option for Sadio + we might convert him into number 8 like Pep did with Silva/De Bruyne which means he could also be part of the midfield trio against weaker opponents. All in all, would really love to see Lemar at the club!
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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May sound odd but I actually think Sancho is a little younger than what the club/Klopp would consider "ideal". Most of our signings seem to be in the 23-27 age bracket (Minimino, Alisson, Keita, Fabinho, Shaqiri, Salah, Mane, Firmino, van Dijk, Chamberlain, Robertson etc.) and I think there are legitimate reasons for that...

1. By this time in their career they will have taken some knocks and, hopefully, proven they can bounce back which a teenager who had flown through a youth academy and into first team football with relative ease might not have had.

2. As the player is a little older there is a perception that they are not "prospects" anymore and that (in the bizarre and illogical transfer market we have now) reduces their cost instead of increases it.

3. The core of the squad, and all the best players, are roughly the same age. There are not significant generational differences between a 25 year old and a 29 year old but there will be with a 29 year old and a 19 year old. Not that teenagers aren't welcome in the dressing room, clearly we use them in our squad, but we don't seem to want to rely on extremely young players to be key cogs.

None of that is to say that we wouldn't or shouldn't pursue a player like Sancho but I think our M.O. is more about signing the guys who took a few knocks at 18/19 - maybe had a transfer that didn't work, or were released by a club - than it is to sign the guys who have had it easy based on their natural talent.

I think of Paul Pogba. Strolled through United's academy (there is nonsense about Morrison being the better player at that age, no he wasn't), went to Juve with United practically begging him to stay. Strolled around Juve's midfield and was the most talented player on the pitch. Went back to Man Utd as the biggest football celebrity in the world and now can't seem to summon up the appetite to play at all, and when he does he doesn't have any of the identity that took him there, he's bored and lost and disinterested. For all his talent he wasn't really mentally tested until he was in his mid 20s and all of a sudden he couldn't hack it. His mind has quit on him.

By contrast the same summer Pogba returned to Man Utd, Liverpool signed Gini Wijnaldum for less than 1/4th of the price. Wijnaldum came to us after just being relegated with Newcastle and a section of supporters putting blame on him for "downing tools". He has worked his arse off everyday he has been here and developed into one of the best all around midfielders in Europe.

I think that is our model. So, the "replacements" for our big players are probably already being scouted but they are likely not shining right now. They are more likely to be 18 years old and barely getting a game for their club in Switzerland then they are to be the Sancho/Felix wonderkid type.
So...... you're saying we ARE going to sign Lemar? Just kidding but like the theory remembered it today for some reason.

Is there anyone that comes to mind for you? Ousmane Dembele fits the profile and could be ready to "grow up" with his next club.
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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He's been unavailable through injury for probably 40% of his time at Barca.
Just used him as a high profile example of someone who fit the pattern described in the theory. Trying to think of players of 23 or just over who have been "next big things" come through adversity and are now primed and ready for the perfect manager (Klopp) to get them to that potential, or above. Players who people have kind of forgotten how good they could have been maybe?
 

Limiescouse

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Just used him as a high profile example of someone who fit the pattern described in the theory. Trying to think of players of 23 or just over who have been "next big things" come through adversity and are now primed and ready for the perfect manager (Klopp) to get them to that potential, or above. Players who people have kind of forgotten how good they could have been maybe?
Someone that's had a false you mean? Ready to break out and then just never happened and now is trying to get his career back on track?

Ante Coric? Kessie? Gabigol? Kasper Dolgberg? That big Swiss lad who was at Dortmund, Odegaard? Borja Mayoral?
 

Anfield rd Dreamer

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Someone that's had a false you mean? Ready to break out and then just never happened and now is trying to get his career back on track?

Ante Coric? Kessie? Gabigol? Kasper Dolgberg? That big Swiss lad who was at Dortmund, Odegaard? Borja Mayoral?
Any of which you think could fit the profile Sweeting set out and could be useful options for us (providing they worked out obviously)?
 

ILLOK

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No need for any player we buy to be a former 'prodigy' or 'wonderkid'. Some players develop later on, some go under the radar. Plenty of our squad weren't touted as world class talents in their teens, not that I remember anyway.

On topic, Buendia looks like he bossed this game for Norwich. Very good player.

Lautaro Martinez is somebody who I don't remember being talked about before this season at 22 years of age but he's an outstanding player, will be better than most of these teenage wonderkids coming through at the moment. Not sure he'd fit in with us now, would have been a nice Suarez replacement!
 

Chewbazza

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